Are there 12B units in USAR?

Jamin Taner — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:17:35 -0500

I'm trying to enlist as 12B in the RC. My recruiter is telling me that it's pretty much impossible because 12B doesn't really exist in the RC. Not that 12B is over strength just that it's not really available. The reserve website is saying their offering fat bonuses for 12B right now and I've been able to locate a couple units via the website. Does anyone have ideas on this? I feel like he's just trying to push me to sign on AD but if anyone here is able to substantiate his statements I'm open to hear it. 12B is pretty much the only RC MOS that interests me other than PSYOPS which is probably not going to work due to a waiver.

Response by 1SG Frank Peck made Dec 12 at 2022 1:25 PM

1SG Frank Peck — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:25:41 -0500

Check ARNG, they have all kinds of 12B

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Dec 12 at 2022 1:28 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 13:28:28 -0500

Just go to a higher level recruiter.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Dec 12 at 2022 2:03 PM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 14:03:09 -0500

There are still some 12B companies in the Army Reserve, but not many, so your recruiter isn't lying about that fact. A ton of Construction Engineer jobs on the Reserve side.
If you are interested in 12B, there is a lot more opportunity on the Guard side of things. If the Army is bonusing 12B's, it would be unusual if the Guard wasn't matching that bonus.
Here is a link, just put Combat Engineer in the search box.

https://www.usar.army.mil/Locate-a-Reserve-Unit/Reserve-Unit-Locations/

U.S. Army Reserve > Locate a Reserve Unit > Reserve Unit Locations

Locate any reserve unit within the United States of America

Response by COL Randall C. made Dec 12 at 2022 3:56 PM

COL Randall C. — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 15:56:38 -0500

Others have mentioned the ARNG. One thing a lot of people new to the Army reserve component (which encompasses the ARNG and USAR) is that the ARNG is configured with combat units (i.e., all the Combat Divisions, Brigades, etc) and the related combat support units. The USAR is configured with the rest of the combat support, combat service support and "other" support units.

What the recruiter was telling you is true from an E1/E2 point of view. I ran a vacancy search (the same tool/database I assume the recruiter would have access to) and the results are in the attached graphics.

So, yes. There are vacancies for PFC and above -- but their closeness to you might be a different story.

Like SGM Bill Frazer said. Try with a higher level recruiter.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 12 at 2022 4:42 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Dec 2022 16:42:24 -0500

So there are 12B vacancies as mentioned, and most of those vacancies will be at entry level, but anything outside 50 miles of your current address is going to require a waiver from the CO of the Reserve Unit getting the new soldier.

Any time I met a future soldier before they shipped I always asked them what their transportation plans were to make it to drill.

It's not uncommon for a new high school grad to have high expectations joining the reserves to only have problems getting to and from drill.

Then on top if it, if you require long travel (50+ miles) to get to your reserve unit there is always going to be complications getting those expenses reimbursed. Don't believe anything anyone tells you. Yes, you can get $500 for you travel expenses. Now, do you know how to submit a Defense Travel Voucher? I can assure you that you will not have a Government Travel Card on day 1 after you graduate all your initial training. It's doubtful your name will be on the authorized list for Travel Reimbursement once you show up after graduation.

A new soldier is going to get left out in the cold with travel expenses waiting for someone to help them.

I'm 10+ years USAR myself and I'm probably not going to extend myself to the hassle of travel expenses ever again (not if I can help it). Every year after the new fiscal year starts or congress goes into budget problems all those funds cease and we are stuck with the bill. That's on top of just doing all the admin paperwork to get the expenses paid back to us.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2022 2:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Dec 2022 02:13:41 -0500

I've read through some of your responses here, which tell me that you've made a few assumptions that are very incorrect.

First, when joining the Reserve Component, which means USAR or ARNG, you look for the unit THEN you look for the MOS. As CPT Private RallyPoint Member pointed out, it's too common for new Soldiers to get signed up for a unit that's three hours away and have trouble making it to drill. It sounds like you are in it mostly for the bonus, find the unit within 50 miles that is offering the biggest bonus. Ask both a Reserves and National Guard recruiter what they're offering at the units closest to you.

You believe that you should join the reserves because they're used more in federal missions. I don't know if that's true or not, I can only say they both offer plenty of activation options and they both offer opportunities to support national missions. Even here in Italy where we have a lot of RC Soldiers on one year activitions, we have about an equal number of National Guard and Reserves. We even have a NG and Reserve Deputy General each. The USAR may be called to support more federal missions, but the MOS 12B is not. Most of the times when USAR is called up to support missions it is the support MOS's, not the combat MOS's that are called up. Either to deploy or as back fill for another deployed unit.

You've thrown a few form names around, but you don't understand what they are or how they're used. In every Army form is a regulation number that tells you how to use it. Your DA 4651 is used to transfer between units, it references AR 140-10 which is called transfer between Reserve units, or something like that. You use it when you move your residence and want to transfer to a closer unit. It's definitely not for transferring to an active duty unit. It's just as difficult to get a DD638 endorsed in the USAR as the ARNG. They both hired you for a job and expect you to honor the commitment. The difference is there are 54 ARNGs who each have their own general and their own policy towards release to AD, and there's only one for the USAR. That CG has made his view very clear that unless you're in dire financial straits you are expected to honor your enlistment commitment before going to the Regular Army.

I don't know if you realize this, but if you do submit a Conditional Release and go to Active Duty before you complete your obligation, a portion of your bonus will be recouped. The pretax portion. So, if you're offered $10k for three years, you'll receive $7,800 after federal taxes. If you leave after two years you'll incur a debt of $3,333, a third of the $10k not a third of the & 7,800.

When you do transition into the Regular Army, nobody cares what MOS you were. You'll be treated like a brand new recruit at the MEPS. If you have over 180 days of Active Service at that point you'll be called Prior Service and have fewer options. Your current MOS will not affect what MOS's you're offered. The class seats available that day will affect what MOS's you're offered. You'll be in the Reserves, nobody thinks you're a tough guy doing 16 hours of drill a month. If you want 19D with an Airborne option, and they have class seats for that, you'll get it.

So, to reiterate, find a unit within driving distance that you can handle driving to on a Saturday morning at 4 am for the next three years, then find an opening for the MOS you want. Second, stay in the unit for the whole three years, or however long your bonus obligation is, or you'll have to pay some of it back.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2022 11:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 13 Dec 2022 11:28:10 -0500

There are many units in the USAR that have 12B positions. I cannot comment on vacancies, as I'm not/never was a recruiter and am retired as of this year. However, I spent the last 12 years of my career as an AGR 12B Combat Engineer in the USAR, so I personally know there are positions in the USAR. Where do you live?

Of course, the ARNG has Engineer units also, as indicated by others, but the issue I have always seen in the ARNG is upward mobility, since you are stuck in your state, and as you progress in rank there are less and less positions available to get promoted into. In the USAR, you can serve in a state other than the one in which you live, and currently they will pay up to $500 of your travel expenses for every battle assembly ("drill"). This opens up the possibilities immensely IMHO.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Dec 14 at 2022 9:14 AM

CSM William Everroad — Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:14:29 -0500

There are two Engineer Divisions in the Army Reserves (416 and 412) each with multiple Engineer Brigades and each again with multiple Engineer Companies. Their specialties vary across the engineering spectrum. The density of Combat Engineers swings wildly from year to year, over the past few years there has been no bonus because they were seriously overstrength. It's a great MOS. But recently, we lost some folks who decided that staying in wasn't worth it. For a variety of reasons, the training is tough and high-tempo or they just didn't want to comply with certain DoD directives. When a bonus opens up for 12B, it's a race. The longer you play around, the odds of you missing out increase. Your recruiter may be playing games but based on what has been said here, maybe not. There may simply not be any vacancies in your area. No one in their right mind should push a recruit to travel farther than 50 miles for training assemblies like SFC Private RallyPoint Member pointed out.

I am all for serious career planning. Get your job skills and utilize your labor mobility. But I discourage any recruit who indicates they want to join the RC and transfer to the Active component. If you have a plan for the RC time, sure. Like if you want to spend your first contract going to college and re-enlist in the Active component. But that makes little sense. If you get a decent degree, the pay in the civilian sector would be higher and your love of the military may not be worth the rank they are most certainly going to dock you. If you are interested in AD, go AD. Period.

To your statement that RC Engineer units get more federal missions, I am not sure where you are hearing that. Certainly some units, with certain specialties are utilized in contingency mission planning. But all Engineer units (AD, RC, & NG) rotate through the major excercises both CONUS and OCONUS. If by Federal you mean disaster or emergency response, that is almost exclusively the domain of NG units and defintly not limited to Engineers.

It is curious that you have not answered a few questions that would help us clarify some things:
Why Combat Engineers? (not that it matters, but it seems to be the premise for not wanting to Join NG and that or PSYOPs is a weird combo)
Where do you live? (The active recruiters here can tell you if there are specific vacacnies in which units close to you)
Why Reserves and not Active? (again, it would help settle some things and keep people from trying to explain to you that a conditional release isn't automatic)
Why would you need a waiver for PSYOPs? (morbid curiosity).

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2022 1:09 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Dec 2022 01:09:52 -0500

I’m currently a 12B in the reserves and my unit is in San Diego.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 18 at 2023 7:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Jan 2023 19:48:50 -0500

Where do you live? There being a slot and that slot being near you are very different things.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Mar 12 at 2023 7:50 AM

SSG Shawn Mcfadden — Sun, 12 Mar 2023 07:50:21 -0400

There should be.