Posted on Sep 12, 2016
PO3 Aaron Hassay
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I feel it the old Military Paygrade Enlisted Officer system is not optimal, to take advantage the new use of the 1975 induction of the AVF All Volunteer Force educated citizen/service member, when the DOD finally had QOL Quality Of Life as a budget item?

The old system seems to start from the world of kings and queens monarchy's etc where the plebeian are drafted, conscripted, and separated from various functional civilized intelligent things in various ways.

We still need a fighting force willing to stand strong. No one disagrees. Now we have over 90% high school graduates at a minimum enlisting as early as 18 in the AVF since 1975, who should be able to be honored for their intelligence, determination, willingness to be that force that defends. We are no longer drafted into the old world construct of military systems.
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SGT David T.
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You have to remember that the military is paid the bare minimum to get people to do the job and you are paid based upon your level of responsibility and education. Officers will always make more than enlisted generally speaking. If you want to make more you have 2 options. Get a degree and commission or get out get and get a better paying civilian job. It really is that simple.
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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There arecalot of college gradd coming in the Army as E-4's & the other branches E-3, Unless you have R.O.T.C under your belt. It is not like the old days where you get commissioned if you have a degree. Most people want in because it's a secure jib, and their degree on the outside is useless. Now you get comissioned based on the needs of the service you choose. It is a diffrent military and a diffrent time.
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SFC S6 Section Cheif
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People in the Army are not always paid for their education. Example, the Company Commander in my BN who has a Bachelors vs the SPC with the MBA.

The Army just uses college as a check the block to determine who should be commissionered. it's an old outdated standard.

I'm finishing up a five year apprenticeship in which you are responsible for real things in real life, and at times are leading others in supervisory positions. But with out the college degree the Military doesn't care.

Time to relook at what we want in skill set and experience when selecting future officers.
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CW3 Eye Bobojed
CW3 Eye Bobojed
>1 y
A degree in liberal arts where youmlea Ned to protest and all,the ills of,society which is so,prevalent these days is not necessarily going to make you a leader or give you skills,in logistics or supply chain management. Problem appears these days of the entitled generation wants to scrap what has worked albeit not perfectly for 250:years. No system suggested as replacement and they probably would label all the military hardware outside buildings as offensive
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SFC Retention and Transition NCO (USAR)
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If thghat were really the case, 1SG/E8 with a BS degree and with more years experience should make more than a O3. Afterall, he or she runs the Company. Lol
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COL John Hudson
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Aaron, I enlisted in the Army in August, 1966, earning the princely sum of $97 per month (I cleared $71 after taxes). I had never made that much $$ in the 19 years of my life up to that point working for local farmers and a paper route. One stood at attention in front of a pay Officer sitting at a small field desk and was handed cash. Frankly, I didn't have any idea how to spend that much money! Single, easy job, no bad habits, had 3 hots and a cot - life was good! Now for the numbers: I earned $1,164 a year at that salary rate. An Army Pvt-E1 today earns $18,803 per year now ($1,567 a month). Result? Today's young E-1 service member's pay is 96% higher than when I entered the service, making more in one month than I was paid for a full year. Yes, we can debate today's economy, education and all the other factors, but I do not believe we need to increase basic pay across the board. Pay is computed against the job one signs up for, and by any standard whatsoever is generous when compared to similar positions in the civilian world. Too many ignore the many benefits of military service (medical, dental, commissary, exchange, clothing, free travel), focusing only on payday dollar amounts. Do the math and add the cost of all those free bennies to salary and then we'll talk.
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PO3 Aaron Hassay
PO3 Aaron Hassay
>1 y
Sir it took a while to answer back. I am the son of one of you guys Army Infantry 1966-68. My father became incapacitated unable to caretake my mom entered womens shelters my age 8yo.

I only learned of my father being a vet himself in 2005.

I honorably discharged May 2002.

My own service took its toll on me honorably discharged.

The stroke of gods luck would have us reunited in 2005.

By the coincidence of life 2005 before I met him was VA Service Connected 100% Psychiatric due Vietnam of course.

My grandpa his dad I never met, was infact WW2 Machinist Mate 1st Class and did not raise my father because of deployments and passed away due lung problems I am associating with asbestos...

Now my childhood made much more sense.

My great loving mom has since passed away...in late 2009 God Bless Her she loved me so greatly even when I was getting ill from my own service..

I wonder how to share my story with Healthier stable Vets of all eras..because both my dads service and my own service haave left me where I am

I am on SSDI for anxiety disorder unable to remove myself from this reality only on $930 a month.
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SCPO John-florida Killin
SCPO John-florida Killin
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My first year in the Navy, my brother did make more money than me on his paper route.
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2LT Unit Supply Specialist
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I agree, LTC. The military is one of the few fields that would give you full benefits and a descent pay to train to eventually be qualified to do the job they hired you to do. In many cases they give soldiers medical/dental care their parents negleted/could not afford to give them.

Civil aviation has the same criticism regarding low initial wages, but most people do not realize that the airlines spend thousands training new pilots to qualify to be just a trainee since the FAA now has stringent rules to be pilot in command. So in my case I can be a flight instructor with a 20-30k/year at my local flight school or a professional pilot for 25-35k living with 4+ roommates anywhere the airline sends me; it's about choices.

P.S.
They often give generous bonuses to those with high ASVAB scores and qualify for critical MOSs/Rates. So a navy Cryptos can earn a descend pay to learn a skill that could open the door for a 6 figure job 4-5 years later.
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FN Colin Boyle
FN Colin Boyle
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$97 in 1966 is $757 in 2018 dollars.

Still less than what a current e-1 makes, but you can’t just draft people to make up manpower shortfalls anymore.
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1SG Jay Vanderford
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Well, this again, have heard it for many years, so I will add here. As a retired 1SG, and having come through the Army when the NCO was labeled the Backbone of the Army Leadership was very important to me. I learned that as a SSG I was now a part of the Chain of Command, as a section chief you interact directly with the LT. I had great leaders around me as I grew to understand also that my authority also cane for the POTUS at certain levels, SFC and above. The biggest issue that was apparent to me upon my retirement in 2006 was that a majority of Enlisted simply do not know their place in respect to the Chain of Command. The NCO support channel runs parallel, it was incumbent upon myself to know not only my job, but that of my LT and eventually that of my Battery Commander, so if its responsibility you seek, you will have it as you earn rank. If its money you're after, military is not the job for you. The reason we are a All Volunteer Force, we still have patriots in the making, yet we still see those with an agenda other than that, trying to make changes to the core of the greatest force on the planet, not necessary. The only rank structure I would change is to bring back the SPC ranks up to SGM for staff and Enlisted technical fields. I lost many a good Soldier that I would never have considered a leader, yet were excellent at their respective jobs. Lastly, no one can pin on leadership, but there are a select group of people that have those inherent values and beliefs that can be developed, this is something I learned and stressed throughout my career, you can have an E5 or an NCO, you'll know the difference. Serve for pride in your Country, if you serve for money, you'll remain disappointed.
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CSM Clifford Fargason
CSM Clifford Fargason
>1 y
1SG Jay Vanderford - switching to a new rank structure means $$$. What, if anything, we would get as a return on that investment? We would still have the pyramid going, I don't really see the Army promoting specialty MOS soldiers any faster than they do now, and it would cost more in terms of pay and retirement benefits if we had a crew of all SP7s, for example, if we normally would have had mostly E4/E5 with some supervisors at the E6/E7 level. And if the intent is to make sure that only enlisted personnel in leadership positions wear "hard" stripes, would we make all senior enlisted 11 series guys who are not a squad leader or platoon sergeant wear different insignia than SSG or SFC? I have worn SPC stripes and NCO stripes and to be honest I felt that getting rid of the SPC ranks made sense.
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COL David Turk
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1SG Jay Vanderford
1SG Jay Vanderford
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Again, always appreciate learning from my fellow senior enlisted, I did. It factor in the costs, you are right, I just hated losing Soldiers that were great in their support roles, but if asked, I couldn't honestly say they would ever lead one of my kids into combat. There must be an answer to keep that kind of talent without placing someone in a leadership roll they would fail at. I'm not sure what that answer is,.CSM Clifford Fargason -
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CSM Clifford Fargason
CSM Clifford Fargason
>1 y
1SG Jay Vanderford - I understand what you are saying, but in reality an E7 working as a shift leader in a fixed station signal installation is going to have to be a leader whether he is wearing SPC or "hard" stripes, but with the exception of the enemy getting through the wire, will not be directing his soldiers in combat. But on the other hand, I would not want an 11 series E7 attempting to direct a shift on a fixed station signal installation either. The stripes just stand for someone capable of leading at their particular skill set. I could not step into the slot of directing FA soldiers in their mission and wouldn't expect an FA guy to be able to run a logistics unit.
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