21-gun salute eliminated from Air Force funerals due to lack of funding & personnel. Any Rally Point AD AF leaders who can confirm or deny?

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 16:58:20 -0500

"A spokesman for the Air Force says it’s because of the lack of funding and personnel and it’s being done across the country. A memo was sent out to all the funeral homes saying the honor guard will reduce retiree and veteran funeral details from a seven-person detail to a three-person detail."

First of all, I don't know if this is true or not... Are there any Rally Point AF Leaders who can verify this? Is this just a local area (still shouldn't matter) or is this Air Force wide? Last I checked (some time ago), the Ft Huachuca HG is still doing this. So are there any other military branches affected? Any clarification would be appreciated.

Published: December 14, 2015, 4:48 pm Updated: December 14, 2015, 6:23 pm
The 21-gun salute is an honor earned by everyone who has served our country, but it’s no longer available to members of one branch of the military.

The U.S. Air Force says it can no longer provide the salute for funeral services.

A family contacted Action Line after they were told they cannot have the full honor guard service for a loved who served in the Air Force for more than 30 years.

When someone who served in the military is laid to rest, he or she is entitled to have a ceremony that includes the folding of the U.S. flag that is then handed to a family member, the traditional and solemn tune of Taps, and a 21-gun salute.

But those who served in the Air Force can only have two of those.

“To me, without the 21-gun salute, it just does not make it complete a proper military burial and I think because of sequestration or the lack of funds or whatever excuse they’re giving, that they had to hit the veterans,” said veteran Wayne Wakeman.

Wakeman served in the Air Force and Air National Guard for more than 36 years, and he’s shocked that this is happening.

“Once a veteran passes away, it’s for the family. It shows respect for the veteran to pass it on to the family,” he said. “My family suffered through a lot of the times I was away, when I was deployed, when I was somewhere else. They lived through it so to me, I think they’re the ones that earn it.”

A spokesman for the Air Force says it’s because of the lack of funding and personnel and it’s being done across the country. A memo was sent out to all the funeral homes saying the honor guard will reduce retiree and veteran funeral details from a seven-person detail to a three-person detail.

It’s still committed to ensuring proper honors. The three-person team will include two individuals who will fold and present the internment flag and one who will play Taps.

A spokesman also says if volunteers from the other military branches are willing to help, then Air Force veterans can still get a 21-gun salute.

“We’re all one big family as a U.S. military,” Wakeman said, “but to eliminate the 21-gun salute completely just for an Air Force veteran or someone that died in combat, I just cannot see that.”

KHON2 reached out to U.S. Representatives Tulsi Gabbard and Mark Takai and were told they are looking into this.

http://khon2.com/2015/12/14/21-gun-salute-eliminated-from-air-force-funerals-due-to-lack-of-funding-personnel/

21-gun salute eliminated from Air Force funerals due to lack of funding, personnel

The U.S. Air Force says lack of funding and personnel prevent it from providing the salute at funeral services.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Dec 15 at 2015 5:03 PM

SN Greg Wright — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:03:34 -0500

MSgt Curtis Ellis I hope that's not true. As the youngest service, the AF is still forming it's traditions, (at least relative to other services'), and to lose one, any one, would be saddening.

Response by SSG Karl Fowler made Dec 15 at 2015 5:15 PM

SSG Karl Fowler — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:15:27 -0500

just recently buried my brother in-law he was a army veteran and the army provided 4 personnel,bugler,and 2 for flag folding and one to present the flag to immediate family. there was no 21 gun salute

Response by SMSgt Bryan Raines made Dec 15 at 2015 5:22 PM

SMSgt Bryan Raines — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:22:15 -0500

When I was on a base honor guard in 2001 we only did 3 person details for veterans and 7 person details for retirees. We did a 20 + person detail for any active duty who died or was killed in the line of duty.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Dec 15 at 2015 5:31 PM

SSG Warren Swan — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:31:46 -0500

"A spokesman for the Air Force says it’s because of the lack of funding and personnel and it’s being done across the country".....part of this shouldn't matter being the sister services should pick this up and keep it moving. They earned it. On the other hand, the AF has the F-35 debacle along with many upgrades to airframes. If just a quarter of that money was moved to manpower, would they have enough? If we weren't so busy kicking everyone out with a heartbeat still, would they have enough? I hope this isn't true, and it's one sick, bad joke. If it isn't, this won't last long before someones congressman is asking the AF some hard questions and demanding some hard answers.

Response by SrA Mark Hickman made Dec 15 at 2015 5:42 PM

SrA Mark Hickman — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 17:42:05 -0500

This started back in I believe 2007 for base honor guards. I was told it was due to lack of Funding and personnel. When this was rolled out I was an Active Duty Staff Member for the Travis AFB Honor Guard. When we received this instruction it affected the Retiree funerals only. The 7 Man Firing Party was changed to a 3 Man Firing Party still with 3 volleys. The Active Duty Funerals were still done with a 7 Man Firing Party and 3 volleys. Not sure if this has changed since then.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 6:11 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 18:11:00 -0500

Can't possibly be true.
If it were, it would span all services, since the national cemeteries fall under the auspices of the VA, not any particular service.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Dec 15 at 2015 6:40 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 18:40:54 -0500

I don't know how common it is but at several funerals that I have attended during the last few years the ceremony was conducted either by a reserve unit or by a veterans organization such as the American Legion.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 7:57 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 19:57:43 -0500

As a former ceremonial guardsman I can tell you that the Air Force didn't flat out eliminate firing parties from military funerals. I think it was 2013 when guidance came down stating that installation commanders had the discretion to limit military honors to the statutorily required two man flag fold and the playing of taps if they couldn't support firing parties due to the lack of funding and/or personnel. Our base still provided firing parties despite this guidance though. This policy didn't impact active duty funerals at all though. Fallen active duty members still receive a full 21 man team.

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Dec 15 at 2015 8:33 PM

Sgt Spencer Sikder — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 20:33:15 -0500

Was at a recent burial for a retired MGySgt and it was covered by an honor guard made up of retirees and former active duty men and women. I struggled watching a Marine Corporal in dress blues with a gotee. We expected to see the reserve unit show up but the funeral home contacted these folks. While I appreciate their efforts, I felt cheated for my friend. There was one Marine, with gotee and the rest Army.

Response by TSgt Aaron D. made Dec 15 at 2015 8:42 PM

TSgt Aaron D. — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 20:42:03 -0500

I did base Honor Guard full time for nearly 2 years, we were told the 21 gun salute is reserved for The President of the United States. Unless you are referring to a 7 gun salute which is what is currently in place and has been since at least 2006.

Response by SMSgt Emo McParland made Dec 15 at 2015 8:57 PM

SMSgt Emo McParland — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 20:57:30 -0500

I will personally pay for veterans that I know or were stationed with to receive a 21 gun salute

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2015 9:25 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 21:25:11 -0500

My understanding the salute is based on the rank and time of service of the individual.

Response by SSgt Jim Gilmore made Dec 15 at 2015 10:20 PM

SSgt Jim Gilmore — Tue, 15 Dec 2015 22:20:08 -0500

Then it is up to US - you and I and all other Veterans to endure it does not fade away. Whenb I was living in NorCal several years ago a new National Cemetery opened in Vacaville, Ca. Several members of our PTSD therapy group got together and decided ALL veterans would receive a proper send off. They outfitted themselves with BDUs, borrowed rifles and provided an honor guard with taps at the funerals. I do not know if they are still doing this but it's something to consider.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Dec 16 at 2015 9:52 AM

Maj Mike Sciales — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 09:52:04 -0500

The VFW will still give you one

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made Dec 16 at 2015 10:00 AM

Maj Mike Sciales — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 10:00:05 -0500

I'll spring for the bullets.

Response by Maj Matt Hylton made Dec 16 at 2015 11:38 AM

Maj Matt Hylton — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 11:38:52 -0500

Things have changed from back in the day when I used to do it (2002-2005) and the guidance actually changed two years ago. Retirees pretty much get the same thing we used to do for veterans now: http://archive.airforcetimes.com/article/20130617/BENEFITS05/306170015/Military-funeral-procession-changes
With less people to do additional duties like Honor Guard, I honestly can't find the fault in the Big AF's logic here. Lower manpower means I don't have people to give up to do additional duties (however important they might be) if it means I can no longer get the primary mission done.
I think other extra crap like Tops in Blue should be taking funding hits before we do stuff like this, but realistically, just doing that wouldn't affect this policy. It all comes down to manning. We are at a historically low manning level; the lowest we've been at since WWII. I know, because I had to go through three freaking Reduction in Force boards in my career and didn't make it through the last one. I'm now only a veteran and would only get veteran honors anyway unless I can get a Reserve retirement (working on that still) and this policy is changed. Nothing will really change unless funding/manpower is fixed. This is just one of many things that happens when the overall budget/manpower is reduced but mission requirements don't seem to change. Do more with less is a fallacy. This is an example of that - we end up doing less with less.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2015 5:39 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 17:39:07 -0500

Yeah mean to say they can't afford a box of blanks? I assume that they have M4s and that they issue dress uniforms? Or is it the gas? For Pete's sake it's not that expensive

Response by SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood made Dec 16 at 2015 5:55 PM

SGT Morrison (Mike) Hogwood — Wed, 16 Dec 2015 17:55:07 -0500

my father was retired USAF and buried in raleigh n.c the Air Force sent 3 active duty from seymore johnson and local Air Force auxillary detail for pall bearers from the local area,it was nice,the 21 gun salute was reduced to a nine volley due to ammo shortages,they did offer the casings to the family along with the flag,Taps was also played,this was in april of 2014, i hope this may help some.

Response by LTC Bill Koski made Jul 10 at 2017 1:20 AM

LTC Bill Koski — Mon, 10 Jul 2017 01:20:06 -0400

I agree with you, but I am afraid he may be right. A few years ago, my unit was in charge of funeral details for the greater NYC area. Funding did take a hit. Most of the funeral details were performed by reservists. The minimum was a flag and taps. Often that was all we could provide. The funding started to dry up right around 2013, after sequestration was threatened and continuing resolution forced level funding to previous years budget.