3 newest submarines have unauthorized repairs: How well do we monitor contractor work?

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:34:54 -0400

Unauthorized repairs found on three submarines. How do we as the government do at monitoring contractor performance? How do our primes monitor sub-contractors? Should this have been found elsewhere? How big of a deal is this?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/06/politics/navy-submarine-unauthorized-repairs/index.html

Unauthorized repairs found on Navy's 3 newest subs - CNNPolitics.com

The USS John Warner and two sister fast-attack nuclear subs face operating restrictions after a contractor made unauthorized repairs to their parts.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 6 at 2015 11:40 AM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:40:17 -0400

Very poorly. I never trusted shipyards. I had a case when I was weps on a Knox class - my gun mount was tagged out for cooling repairs. The valve on the DC deck was wired and tagged out. The Yardbirds pulled the tag and cut the wire so they could get water in the Sonar Dome. No authorization. MY mount got flooded...

There is no way to monitor every job they do, and further, if you "delay shipyard work" you get nailed by the EDOs and your bosses on the ship. So far too often, people turn the other way. Further, most sailors don't really know the scope of the jobs anyway...

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Aug 6 at 2015 11:40 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:40:53 -0400

That's an excellent question. How often are the contractors inspected on their processes? Shouldn't they be inspected periodically as well as unannounced?

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Aug 6 at 2015 11:43 AM

PO3 Steven Sherrill — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:43:41 -0400

On a submarine? That is not just bad, it has the potential to be catastrophic.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 12:13 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 12:13:29 -0400

I think this is a big of enough deal that we will soon have the answers to these questions as they at least are applied at that shipyard.

But I do wonder how this works. I have a contract to build a sub. I then subcontract to install the sail. If not done right, it gets corrected until I am satisfied and then I pay them. I have my own process to determine schedule and performance for the subcontractor. Am I obligated to share or have my processes undermined/replaced by governmental processes? Any Contracting Officers out there?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 12:38 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 12:38:17 -0400

I think that shipyards as well as crewmembers should have oversight on work being done. The Boat's commander should review and sign off on repairs - especially out of the ordinary ones - as should the head contractor.
This work might represent some form of defect that should be a class-wide announcement and potentially an emergency repair.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Aug 6 at 2015 12:43 PM

SN Greg Wright — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 12:43:38 -0400

On a submarine, that's downright scary. If I'm the guy deciding who works on our boats, that subcontractor isn't ever, again.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 6 at 2015 12:46 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 12:46:57 -0400

There should be criminal charges in these cases

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 12:49 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 12:49:56 -0400

Found a better article on this:

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/submarines/2015/08/05/submarine-virginia-class-nuclear-shipbuilding-electric-boat-newport-news-huntington-ingalls-naval-sea-systems-command-navsea-john-warner-minnesota-north-dakota-reactor-nuflo/31188575/

Not a critical problem right now, but potential for lowered reliability

US Navy Sidelines 3 Newest Subs

US Navy sidelines three newest submarines pending steam plant inspections

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Aug 6 at 2015 1:05 PM

MSgt Curtis Ellis — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 13:05:50 -0400

I guess requiring integrity is out of the question...

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Aug 6 at 2015 5:35 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 17:35:30 -0400

Admiral Rickover is turning over in his Grave. Did we not learn anything from the Thresher.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 7 at 2015 3:04 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 03:04:26 -0400

I was about to say "Well, the unauthorized welds sound like a necessary repair..." but on further thought I realized that if we overlook processes in one area pretty soon it will have a cascading effect. Pretty soon no work will have to be pre-authorized and we'll have third world submarines and ships.

Response by PO2 Steven Erickson made Aug 8 at 2015 10:34 AM

PO2 Steven Erickson — Sat, 08 Aug 2015 10:34:49 -0400

I've been doing "the nuclear thing" since 1983. I was stationed on board the USS Permit (SSN-594), and we had numerous pieces of equipment (valves, etc.) that were stamped "SSN-593" (which, to you non-Navy folks is the USS Thresher, which WAS the lead ship in the class). The "Sub Safe" program is very near and dear to my heart.

In the commercial nuclear world, this stuff happens - unfortunately - all too often, but - fortunately - is quite rare. It is ALWAYS caused by a failure of the "owner" to properly oversee and authorize the work done by ANY contractor - regardless if they're the general, primary or sub contractor.

I am NOT saying that we can't TRUST our contractors and sub-contractors... FAR FROM IT!!!! I'm saying that "due diligence" requires the owner of the ship/sub/plant/home/car to ensure that ANYONE doing work on your stuff is qualified and is doing the work that YOU want done.

It is a positive thing that some follow-up inspection or audit found these items.

This stuff happens. You have to be diligent, and "trust but verify" as a lot of you have stated.

And, I agree with PO1 William "Chip" Nagel, Admiral Rickover IS turning over in his grave. BUT... I have to say that we DID learn from the Thresher. A LOT. The fact that this was found BEFORE an event shows that we DID learn.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 17 at 2015 3:00 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:00:08 -0400

If we are still taking contractors/reps to sea on the first test dive, increase the number of senior civilians. That should take care of it. Believe me, as a career sub sailor, the pucker factor is great when you get down there and you pray that the contractors did their jobs well.