35M: Why is there such a large disparity between active and reserve components in terms of MOS-specific training?

SGT William B. — Fri, 28 Mar 2014 02:29:25 -0400

In the few short years that I've been able to do and train for this MOS, I've noticed that a lot of the active soldiers, even many of the senior NCOs, had not had the opportunity to attend major MOS schools.  When I ask, the reason seems to always come down to "command could not justify sending me for X amount of weeks".  Is it really like that on the active side?  I ask a lot of my friends from AIT what their daily life on the active side is like, and it usually involves working in the motor pool, pulling CQ, or getting stuck in a S1/S3 function.<br><br>In my really short experience, I've been able to attend nearly every skill-enhancing MOS-specific school I've requested, with the exception of some of the upper tier HT-JCOE schools with smaller class sizes, while I've been in the reserve.  The downside is that our one weekend a month is usually dominated by at least four hours of PMCS'ing a fleet of vehicles that we'll never drive and by updating mandatory paperwork, but on the whole, we always seem to be able to make up for it by sending soldiers to the schools that really do enhance a lot of the basic skills we learn in the 10-course.  <br><br>I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what the reasoning is, but I can't seem to understand why active 35Ms, who typically deal with more frequent deployment cycles, seem to not get as much love from the ASI producing courses for 35Ms than the reservists.  Is this a faulty perception on my end from a really small sampling of the active population?

Response by Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2014 3:43 AM

Col Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Mar 2014 03:43:15 -0400

SGT Bradley, while I can't speak specifically to the 35M career field or the Army, I can speak to the active vs. Reserve component mindset(s). My personal experience was after switching to the Reserve side as an IMA, I noticed that gaining training and unique opportunities seemed much easier for some reason. Subsequently, in the first few years in the Reserve, I had already exceeded the amount of opportunities that I'd had during my entire enlisted and officer time in the active component. IMHO it comes down to funding, culture, attitude(s), and a healthy or unhealthy stance on troop development... just one person's experience/opinion here of course.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2014 9:11 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Mar 2014 21:11:11 -0400

I think you talking to the wrong Soldiers out in the Force. When I was at 11 ACR and 2SCR, I had the opportunity to attend multiple schools before deployment and after deployment. I went to SOC while at 2SCR to include me fellow team leaders before deployment and DSDC after deployment. All this thanks to aggressive Warrant Officers and Commander's justifying the investment. I also think the problem might rely on A. The Active Soldier's that you have talked with are on the bottom of the Schools OML, B. The unit does not have funds to send all Soldiers to ASI producing Schools (Which cost a significant amount of money per Soldier) instead they send the able and willing to smoke those courses because they cannot take chances sending dead weight to waste a seat and money. I have seen that happened.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2014 4:43 PM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 May 2014 16:43:26 -0400

I had a really good experiance with my active duty unit. When my CW3 was there he put us in as much training he could. I went through SOC, Ried course, JAICC, and tons of MTTs. I know some of the senior ranking people in my platoon would put them selves in to training before they sent lower enlisted. When I got my third warrant in my unit they did it by who has been in the unit longest would be selected to go to schools. It was a great plan. I think it all depends on the planning that your PL sets up

Response by SPC Rick Harris made Jun 3 at 2014 12:18 AM

SPC Rick Harris — Tue, 03 Jun 2014 00:18:51 -0400

Sounds like the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Back in 1989 I could not advance to E5 because my Major would not let me go to PLDC which was required for that advancement. I was CI, so did have one of the rare peace time jobs on post and he 'couldn't have the office down to just 1 man'. A few months later he sent us both to Reforger, so the office was down to no men for a month and we spent the weeks prior handing off our cases to other CI agents in our region.
In 92 and 93 I was with a reserve CI unit in Owings Mills, MD and we had some great training as a unit but I did not pursue individual advancement anymore after getting turned down for PLDC. But I'm sure my command would have done all they could if I had wanted that, as they coordinated for several of us to go to Augsburg in the summer of 93 to help with their investigation caseload in place of our normal 2 week drill in Pennsylvania.

Response by SPC Vincenzo Lettieri made Feb 9 at 2018 4:31 PM

SPC Vincenzo Lettieri — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 16:31:08 -0500

Heh, I think it's a pretty big problem in the 35M MOS for active duty. I graduated from Huachuca at the end of 2008, and got sent to Ft. Lewis to a new unit. We deployed at the end of 2009 for 12 months, which meant we all had a year for schools/training. I managed to get Reid, Kinesics, and SCAN before deploying, but only by showing up to the classes and telling the trainers I was slotted there, and then informing my NCOs I was in a class. So, really, I shouldn't have even got them.

When I joined, I was also under the impression I would be sent to DLI to learn a language, but then they put a waiver through stating 35Ms did not need to be language qualified to maintain the MOS, and as it wasn't in my contract, I was SOL.

Fast forward to the hand-off to Utah National Guard at the end of our deployment. They had two PFCs who were ASOC qualified, languages, strategic debriefing course, pretty much everything. I never understood why it was like that either. When my CSM was trying to retain me at the end of my enlistment, the most he could offer was the Strat D course. I told him I would re-enlist for SOC, but he said there were no slots. My experience definitely matches up with your perception SGT.

Response by SSG John Garner made May 14 at 2018 1:33 PM

SSG John Garner — Mon, 14 May 2018 13:33:06 -0400

Money.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2019 12:37 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 May 2019 12:37:04 -0400

Something similar might be said for 35L's. 35Ls and 35Ms are unique in the fact that we have advanced schooling for our MOS outside of the mainstream Army schools that are joint and/or civilian-based, that really require proactive leadership (and Soldiers) to get slots for. Unfortunately, because of this, many times getting into those schools depends heavily on your unit. So I would say its not so much a disparity between active and reserve components, but just a difference in units and leadership.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2021 11:47 AM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 11:47:25 -0400

That's the result of of commands not having a useful job for their soldiers. Nukes collect dust. Same goes for the soldiers who are in units that don't have any application for that job.