(37F) PSYOPS Vs. (38B) Civil Affairs -- what are the pros and cons of each?

2014-02-03T11:08:07-05:00

My window for re-enlistment is opening this year and I'm strongly considering re-classing to one of these two MOSs.  Do any of you hold (or have held) one of these specialties and would you mind discussing the pros/cons of each?  What is daily life like in garrison/deployed?  I've read the Army's description of each, and although they both sound interesting, I've already learned that it's best to learn from people who are actually doing the work, rather than what some recruiting-based website says.  Thank you for any input. <br>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2014 11:09 AM

2014-02-03T11:09:49-05:00

Honestly, I would rather reclass to CounterIntelligence more than anything.  You should look into that.  It's a fun MOS....more than mine.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2014 12:39 PM

2014-02-03T12:39:32-05:00

PFC go Civil Affairs nothing against Psyops, but CAs mission is more complex than PSYOPs they both require to be SMEs in their AO (region assigned). However, Psyops is more like marketing influencing the masses. CA you actually on the ground building relationships with other foreign people (government, military and civilian).

Note: That is just a summary and I have worked closely with 37Fs in the past.

Response by CSM Allen Dahl made Feb 4 at 2014 6:12 AM

2014-02-04T06:12:20-05:00

PFC Dydasco, it very much depends on what your goals are. I am NOT either MOS :) However, I do have a Civil Military Support Element (CMSE) that are 38B NCO's that work under my office. Their engagement is primarily through the vehicle of humanitarian aid/nation building projects that support the higher US goals in the country. They have a lot of autonomy and interact daily with host nation civilians, NGO's and many other entities. They are under SOCEUR C2 and undergo a selection process. Most have a language skill as well. If you get to Stuttgart, go visit them on Panzer Kaserne, you may might be able to get some good one on one advice.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2014 2:38 PM

2014-02-05T14:38:50-05:00

The CA guys I know are way more engaged than the MISO guys. They enjoy their job more and get job satisfaction on a daily basis. Both jobs are good but I'd go CA personally.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2014 5:37 PM

2014-05-19T17:37:42-04:00

PFC, don't let all of the "negatives" about PSYOP (and see there is no S on the end) from people that "think" they know our MOS. I'm currently a 37 and i am having the time of my life. What these people fail to inform you is that PSYOP mostly work in embassies throughout the world, yes on 3-4 man teams but you have very little "oversight" from the higher command you play by big boy rules. On the other hand, our 38 counter parts fail to inform you of how crappy they get treated by Q-course cadre, and how only 1 (ONE) of their brigades are Special Operations capable, the others support Big Army and play by Big Army rules…yeah sucks I know. Go PSYOP, all our active duty units are special operations qualified, we get a lot of cool schools from gryphon group, sapper, ranger, sniper, air assault, pathfinder, and if you're lucky even HALO. Message me if you have questions.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 2:28 AM

2015-01-17T02:28:05-05:00

With all respect to my MISO/ PSYOP bretheren, they don't have much to do anymore. The media and themes are generally produced at division level and above, and the Tactical Psyop Teams rarely have more to do than hand out product and maybe run a RIAB if they are lucky. They are often severely constrained by the Embassy Country Teams, who feel that PSYOP messages subvert their efforts to build cooperation.

Civil Affairs, on the other hand is very busy. We have operations all over the world, and not just in Afghanistan. If you want to get out and make a difference, CA is for you. If you are a shrinking violet, it is most definitely NOT for you.

Both MOSs have excellent opportunities for schools and rank progression. I think the mission is the tiebreaker.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 5:42 AM

2015-01-17T05:42:42-05:00

I have worked with CA, PSYOPS and with most 35 series.. It all starts with what you want once you decide which route you want go for it. It makes a difference when you love what you do. Some of my friends reclassed for the money, promotion and such and did not go far. Good luck

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2015 5:44 AM

2015-01-17T05:44:28-05:00

SSG Andrew Dydasco , I am a medic in a Reserve CA BN and soon I will be changing my MOS to 38.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 7:53 AM

2015-03-12T07:53:07-04:00

I just stumbled across this thread, but if you still interested in CA or MISO I would be happy to discuss aspects of both. I am a CA Officer but I have worked side by side MISO on several different jobs. Both are great jobs, but obviously I'm partial to CA.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 3:01 AM

2015-08-29T03:01:03-04:00

No offense to the above posters...

However alot of the statements are false.

PSYOP goes out and builds relationships constantly, thats like our bread and butter. (CA on the other hand calls throwing money and building wells building relationships).

PSYOP is very tactical in nature, in the reserve every unit is Tactical.

PSYOP is all over the world. Qatar, Africa, Korea, Bangladesh, Nepal, South America, etc etc etc... the list goes on and on.

PSYOP is heavily employed on and off the battlefield.

Basically, all that i have seen below is a handful of CA parital gents, trust me when I say, PSYOP is the way. CA just likes to think they are the king because they have deep pockets and are rank heavy.

The shear fact that they are rank heavy should indicate to you who is truly the more tactical of the two. Your not going to send a 03, E7, and E6 on as many missions as you would send a TPT E6, E5, E4, as CA has to much invested into a well developed O3 and E7.

In my exp, CA is viewed as tree huggers and a burden by supported units, especially SF and grunts. While PSYOP is a fun and useful asset. CA is only useful when someone needs money.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Aug 29 at 2015 5:19 PM

2015-08-29T17:19:59-04:00

CA is mostly officers passing out money. PsyOp is just as busy but we influence without passing out money.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 6:17 PM

2015-08-29T18:17:39-04:00

The majority of responses on here so far have been so misinformed as to be insulting and as such I can't even try to formulate a response that won't be just as condescending and emotionally charged.

First off, there are no MISO soldiers. There is no such thing. MISO is the operation conducted. It's conducted by PSYOP soldiers. Second, to say that CA is busier or has "cooler" missions than PSYOP worldwide is simply an asinine opinion and holds absolutely no truth. in reality both are equally busy and each need the other in order to accomplish their mission. CA could hold all the vetcaps and medcaps (or whatever they call them currently) they want to but unless they have PSYOP there to convince the locals it's worthwhile and fits within their respective belief paradigm, then fewer people will show up and hence the mission will be of limited success. Without CA to pay for (they actually have a class called "money as a weapon system") or arrange for bridges, schools, water treatment ants or wells to be built then PSYOP has less actions to exploit in order to change behavior.

As someone who has combat deployed as a tactical PSYOP soldier from E2-E6 three times, to include the invasion, instructed PSYOP for over 5 years, three of them full time and who has been intimately involved in the training of BOTH PSYOP and CA let me put it this way:

If you want to remain tactical and operate in independent three man tactical teams, working in forward operating areas with SF, Infantry and other specialized groups, maintain your high level of tactical, technical, and physical proficiency, and still retain your traditional role of training soldiers as an NCO then go PSYOP. CA does very little tactical training during reclass school (in reclass school that means they do absolutely ZERO tactical training). As PSYOP, You are on the ground conducting face to face relationship building constantly. You are learning local customs, values and beliefs and in turn utilize them to turn a target audiences behavior to one desired by the overall mission statement. It's a big picture MOS as many things take a great deal of time to bear fruit. Do you use a speaker and hand out leaflets? Sure, you can do just that, but only the small minded and unimaginative do that. MISO operations are more and more becoming the focus of the modern war effort and if I recall correctly between CA and PSYOP only one is advising the Joint Chiefs on developing the war effort to defeat and demoralize the enemy AND avoid turning the civilian population we are trying to liberate into an insurgent force.

Now. CA has its benefits. if you want immediate gratification and physical evidence of your accomplishments then go CA. You can follow the mission from conceptualization to completion. You will work with civilian military authority and get wells, businesses, infrastructure etc built and get things done. You have money at your disposal and can illicit change to facilitate developing countries towards modernism. However, since many of these progress resistant cultures work on status, CA is by necessity EXTREMELY top heavy. Where PSYOP's BN staff officer is usually a SSG or SFC, a CA company has a LTC, and a ton of other officers all the way down and only the CA team itself consists of real enlisted troops even if they still have a CPT or MAJ directly overseeing them. The rest of the enlisted will likely end up as admin and coffee getters though they are considered staff NCOs. The other benefit of CA is because they are as top heavy as they are, when we start talking about manning the USCAPOC command itself, there are way more choices from CA than PSYOP. So most of the command structure of USACAPOC, just because of sheer numbers, is chosen from the CA ranks. As you can imagine, the command tends to lean towards the CA side of things.

I have worked with some great CA soldiers (enlisted and officer) and I, in actuality respect CA as a branch. I, and a handful of my fellow instructors, went to great lengths to heal the rift that had developed over the last 20 years between the two. As stated above, we really need the other to be truly successful. Having said all that, I'd rather retire now than ever even consider being a 38B. Some of the smartest people in the military tend to be in PSYOP. PSYOP requires non conventional thinking and dealing with intrinsic and intangible concepts. It's not like seeing a town with no sewer or garbage services and coming back with a thick wallet and fixing it. PSYOP would try to convince the people it was the insurgencies fault and if they did this and that, then a bridge could be built (by CA and the engineers).

It would be my suggestion to visit a PSYOP and CA company and drill with each once. See what you see. PSYOP isn't for everyone.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2015 8:23 PM

2015-08-29T20:23:39-04:00

I have done both. Honestly, the biggest difference isn't so much between the two MOSes as where you fall in a company/battalion. The are lots of desk jobs and field jobs in both MOSes. Field PSYOP is highly tactical, and tactical PSYOP teams are far more engadged in combat operations than CA teams. CA teams have a reputation for being shit tactically, but because they are constantly engaging with local nationals constantly CA teams become targets of opportunity for the enemy. Because of this, CA field teams loose many more soldiers than tactical PSYOP.
However, field CA teams come with money and officers; which means, although there is some difficulty, CA teams integrate with BCTs far easier than a SGT/SSG lead Tac PSYOP team. Officers in BCTs frankly think "both MOSes are stupid, but at lease CA has officers and money."
Office jobs in the MOSes are very different. One is operational combat marketing stratigizing and product development, the other is civil infrastructure planing and contract management. Background research and goals are virtually identical between the two MOSes, however their approach to achieving those goals are very different.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Aug 29 at 2015 8:31 PM

2015-08-29T20:31:09-04:00

It just depend on you, I prefer Civil Affairs, Since i like to interacted with people. It what you prefer to be doing.

Response by SFC Jon Vandeyacht made Aug 30 at 2015 10:04 PM

2015-08-30T22:04:04-04:00

You cant reenlist for civil affairs. You must submit your packet and get selected. Then you go to civil affairs selection and assessment. Day 1 is pt test...dont fail, you want 80% in each category else face non selection. The course is modeled off of sfas. I will give no other details. Is it about you? Team? Both? How you approach situations? No wins?
I loved CA. You work in 4 man teams with all branches of special operators. Mostly long tab sometimes nsw. There are opportunities working just as a team under the state department.
I found that to be the most rewarding thing i have ever done. It is rank heavy so promitions to 7 are really easy as long as you are good, pay attention to details and dont f up.
You will go to language school. Must pass the language test, i forgot the name of it. I asked for and was granted Russian.
I loved my job, loved my team, loved all the schools such as SERE-C. Hated it during but feel that was the best ever school. Dont try to go ca for the schools though. They will not select you ...even if you joke about it. Defensive driving was fun, atv's and dirt bikes was fun, casa jumps with short airborne timeline was fun.
There was nothing about it i regret except my medical retirement.
There is a non airborne option with the 85th but airborne scool is still a requirement.
If you want to be treated like an adult, make a difference in the world, have the best job with tons of responsibility, only 1 weekly formation... then go CA, else get the f out. I say that as, stay army, now is the worst time to get out and fighting with the va sucks, i do that as a job. Just dont go ca for the cool schools, go because you want to learn, want to be an adult, get treated as you behave and can take responsibility for your actions. You will make decisions that have 3rd and 4th level order of effects.
If not the reenlist psyops and babysit privates and stay big army. CA starts as E6. There are no privates, no LTs, onlt those in support mos's will be E5 and below or O2 or O1. Cpts are twam leaders and majs are compant commanders or cmoc oics. Company's end strength are like the size of an infantry platoon.
Stay army but choose wisely. There is a reason ca is selection based.

Response by SFC Reginald Fordham made Jan 7 at 2016 9:19 PM

2016-01-07T21:19:22-05:00

Civil Affairs, psyops both great choices, I prefer civil affairs : )

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2016 1:54 PM

2016-02-20T13:54:54-05:00

No idea if you ever made a decision seeing as this was two years ago, and a lot of the answers started getting into assumptions about the job by people who didn't know what they were saying.

Lot's of your answers came from reservists, whose missions, unit makeup, qualifications, and training are different from active duty.

The active side for both is busy, and deploys a lot, expect about a year of just schooling before you are MOS-Q. Talk to the SORB and the active duty people in these MOS'. There are a lot more reservists in these MOS', nothing against them, they do great things and are damn good at it, but the active MOS training and units and everything is different.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2016 12:42 PM

2016-11-16T12:42:06-05:00

This is a very informative topic.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 28 at 2017 12:54 PM

2017-11-28T12:54:45-05:00

If you want to become a SSG in a reasonable amount of time, choose CA. 37F points sit at 798 year-round and come down to 680ish for a month or two each year. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misinformed. I recommend meeting people from each MOS and seeing how you jive with their personalities.

P.S. CA gets all the cash.