Posted on Feb 23, 2015
SSG Brigade S3 Operations Ncoic
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Posted in these groups: Leadership abstract 007 Leadership
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CSM Brigade Operations (S3) Sergeant Major
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Edited 9 y ago
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That is a good question and should be addressed during their quarterly counseling. If they fail to correct it, the NCOER should reflect such.

If the NCO continues to fail at being a leader I would recommend the NCO be administratively reduced for inefficiency.

AR 600-8-19 Chapter 10
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SSG Combat Engineer
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SGM. I say that the greatest gap in this is at the midrange NCO level. Lower enlisted and Bucks are often thoroughly mentored in leadership. SSG's and SFC's rarely if at all. 1SGs are usually heavily mentored by their CSM's. This mentoring rarely includes career counseling at any level except buck (minimum "go to ranger , sapper, college, etc." and after PSG time.
I raised this point, untactfully: my communication skills went on the blink, during a presentation at SLC, "How can the Army create professional NCO's?" or some such. I was completely unable to get my point across to my peers or the cadre then or in discussions afterward. When I asked, "OK so how do you get an NCO to give a shit?" I was addressing NCO's mentoring subordinate NCO's in leadership, professionalism, and career.
I was asking how to get NCO's, pointedly senior NCO's, to give a shit about mentoring their subordinates in knowledge, skills, and judgement in the areas of leadership, professionalism and career. I was not asking how to get an NCO to give a shit about their own careers. There is entirely too much of that now, and is a major contributing factor to the failure of the Army to get the job done.
I was unable to get them to understand that my point wasn't about the NCO, it was about his Joeys.
I am interested in your thoughts on this beyond, "DO PAPERWORK!!!!!"
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SSG Combat Engineer
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SGM. By Joey's I am including SSG's and SFC's.
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CPT Multifunctional Logistician
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I disagree. Teaching, coaching, mentoring are important to the process for a reason. I believe it's unjust to wait for counseling and/or evaluations opportunities to provide appropriate feedback to an NCO who isn't taking care of his/her responsibilities. It fails all Soldiers concerned and takes away from mission accomplishment. Good leaders communicate... The best leaders I've served communicate before a bad habit is formed.
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CSM Brigade Operations (S3) Sergeant Major
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CPT (Join to see) Ma'am I agree with you and that's what counseling is for. The regulation says that a NCO must be counseled quarterly but there is nothing that says you can't counsel them whenever you want. Counseling takes place everyday and the most effective counseling isn't written on a piece of paper.

If you use all tools at your disposal to rehabilitate the NCO, and the NCO still fails to set the example, I am a firm believer in administrative reduction. I would rather a high speed Specialist take charge than a incompetent NCO.
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LTC Jason Mackay
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You have to start with the fact that we have a generation of NCOs that came AFTER 9/11 that have an uneven set of tools and experiences. Those of us senior have to teach them what right looked like. We fought the first years of OEF/OIF off the hard earned legacy of the experienced NCO Corps. It is not just NCOs, there is an officer version of this too. Now we struggle with mentoring, leading, NCO led training, maintenance, supply accountability, EDREs, roll outs, load plans, mobility preparation etc. these were "the basics" that made us strong. We need to find our way back.
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SSG Brigade S3 Operations Ncoic
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Yes!!! This just touched me mentally.... If only you could of been my battalion commander to help enforce this.
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MSgt Curtis Ellis
MSgt Curtis Ellis
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I ran into this prior to retirement. I was a pre 9/11 NCO, so it all followed me through and into Post 9/11 and was second nature, but talking to some of the Post 9/11 Jr NCO,s was like talking to a junior leader with a totally different set (a few key ones missing) of values and priorities when it came to mentor-ship and NCO specific training, and this went up the chain, and included the new Jr Officers... And when confronted with a fast burner (High rank, no experience) NCO, that alone was a headache and challenge in itself!!!
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CPT Multifunctional Logistician
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The challenge hasn't changed much...
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SFC Platoon Sergeant
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I think the fix is to groom Soldiers to become NCO while they are still junior Soldiers. People tend to want to wait until the Soldier is already an NCO to teach them how to be one. Wrong answer in my opinion. Instill it in them early and it will make the transition easier. In turn, it will decrease the knowledge gap of our Junior NCOs
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SFC Indirect Fire Infantryman (Mortarman)
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I agree. Also sending the Soldier to NCOES prior to the rank in my mind has really helped. To be a E-5 you should have WLC completed prior to being eligble for promotion. Same with the any other NCOES.

This helped me, plus those secondary schools for their career path (Infantry Mortar Leaders Course for 11Cs) before I even took my e-5.
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