Posted on Mar 6, 2014
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Leaders,
I conducted a barracks inspection today. One of my Soldiers, not white, had a modified rebel flag hanging in his room. On it was an eagle and written "these colors don't run".
While common sense to some says this probably shouldn't be there, is there anything that specifically says yes or no. AR 600-15, para 2-4 says a commander can have certain flags and etc removed to maintain good order and discipline.
Who or what determines that this is a violation. What may be offensive to some may not be to others, religion, heritage, etc. Your thoughts?
I conducted a barracks inspection today. One of my Soldiers, not white, had a modified rebel flag hanging in his room. On it was an eagle and written "these colors don't run".
While common sense to some says this probably shouldn't be there, is there anything that specifically says yes or no. AR 600-15, para 2-4 says a commander can have certain flags and etc removed to maintain good order and discipline.
Who or what determines that this is a violation. What may be offensive to some may not be to others, religion, heritage, etc. Your thoughts?
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 2401
I have a "Rebel" flag tattooed upon my right shoulder. I know the history and meaning of my flag. Although history was written by the victor, the South has a strong and proud history. If someone has an issue with a symbol that is a strong part of our cultural and military history they should crack open a book.
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MSG Thomas Currie
1LT Peter Suedfeld - the fact that Grant had more than double the soldiers that Lee had, and could afford to lose more men than the entire Army of Northern Virginia had probably contributed somewhat to his victories.
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MSG Thomas Currie
SPC Megan Ryan - Well bless your heart, Mr Ryan. Do you always go around accusing black people of being "inbred"?
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1LT Peter Suedfeld
MSG Thomas Currie - As I wrote, the much-diminished state of resources of the Confederacy, which included manpower, energy, food, uniforms, munitions, etc., etc., was important. But Lee had previously outfought Federal forces that were superior in all of those factors. The cognitive ability of the opposing commanders was not a trivial factor. Incidentally, a subsequent study showed that other outstanding historical leaders also had the ability to maintain complex thinking under stress.
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LCpl Michael Cappello
I would prefer to "Crack Open" a bottle of something fine and Southern, and share a taste as well as a Toast, with you my brother. I will ALWAYS respect a fellow warrior. Past. Present. Future. Honor. Courage. Commitment. I will drink to that.
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Just a few thoughts. First of all, Sgt Newman is correct, and SSG Woods makes the salient point that the American flag has some stains of the same color on it as well.
Secondly, what should be done if a soldier of Japanese descent displayed a Japanese flag in their room. After all we fought a war with the (then) racist Japanese as well. I can't tell you how many times I have seen Puerto Rican flags hanging in barracks rooms as well. Where should the line be drawn? How do the French feel about a Cinco de Mayo celebration when it celebrates the defeat of their forces?
The point is, the things that can potentially offend someone are legion. It is important to note that inanimate objects are not, of, and in, themselves "offensive". To be offensive, someone has to CHOOSE to be offended.
I understand I'm not citing any regulations so I'm not answering the original question, and I DO believe that the line has to be drawn.... I would draw that line closer to the Nazi flag than to the flag known as the Stars and Bars, or which Sgt Newman accurately pointed out, is known as the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
Secondly, what should be done if a soldier of Japanese descent displayed a Japanese flag in their room. After all we fought a war with the (then) racist Japanese as well. I can't tell you how many times I have seen Puerto Rican flags hanging in barracks rooms as well. Where should the line be drawn? How do the French feel about a Cinco de Mayo celebration when it celebrates the defeat of their forces?
The point is, the things that can potentially offend someone are legion. It is important to note that inanimate objects are not, of, and in, themselves "offensive". To be offensive, someone has to CHOOSE to be offended.
I understand I'm not citing any regulations so I'm not answering the original question, and I DO believe that the line has to be drawn.... I would draw that line closer to the Nazi flag than to the flag known as the Stars and Bars, or which Sgt Newman accurately pointed out, is known as the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.
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SMSgt Kevin Townsend
What about a sign or flag saying, "I am a proud southerner." or "I wish that General Lee had won.". My point is, we live in a country with many different and diverging interests, beliefs, and customs. I cannot speak to Army regulations but I can say that we must quit trying to divide ourselves into little tiny pieces or we will not have the unity to win wars.
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MSG (Join to see)
I think that we need to get back to what it means to be 'uniform' and barracks. When I was a soldier living in the barracks (ie, a 'room that is on post that soldiers live in and belongs to the government'), the rules were that all of the rooms looked the same. We could not put up posters that aligned with our personal feelings; it was a place where you slept that belonged to the military. Now, when we felt that we wanted to put up posters that signaled our personal feelings and thoughts, we moved off post and paid rent. But then, during the 80ish time period and nobody wanted to serve their Country, the Recruiting Command decided that we should attract people to join by being a bit more lenient with the rules and regulations. So, the Army decided that they should drop the previous rules about living in the barracks, and make certain rules where the potential recruits could feel like they were 'at home'. This was when the posters went up and military members were allowed to promote their own 'feelings' about what was important to them. And look what happens; discussions about what an individual soldier should be able to display 'in their rooms'. They are not your rooms; it is the proverbial "three hots and a cot' that is your entitlement. Can you have 'sleepovers' in 'your room'? Can you have alcohol in 'your rooms'? Living in the barracks is like living with your parents, with rules and regulations. Sorry that you were mislead by your Recruiter, which I was once one as well, so I know that it was difficult to get people to join at one time. But still, the barracks not your permanent home, it's a place to live until you can make enough money to move out.
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GySgt William Hardy
There is a difference, as I state elsewhere here, in how it is displayed. All of us can fly different flags and have different reasons for doing so. Nothing wrong with an "Ancestry/heredity" flag. Just don't fly the flag with the understanding that you stand for that country over the USA. It is no different from each branch of service flying their colors.
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The Confederate flag offends some because of what it represents. Ok that's fair.
Let's not forget the reprehensible and atrocious things that happened in this country under the USA flag (child labor, Japanese concentration camps, segregation).
I'm just pointing out there is a much larger picture here.
Let's not forget the reprehensible and atrocious things that happened in this country under the USA flag (child labor, Japanese concentration camps, segregation).
I'm just pointing out there is a much larger picture here.
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PO3 Thomas Lawrence
I am thinking that I have read somewhere that there was a very high percentage of soldiers that fought for the Confederacy that did not own slaves. I had my 2 great great grandfathers fight for the 41st Tennessee Infantry CSA. I don't consider myself a rebel and have no affinity for the Battle flag of the Confederacy. Just hang a Sterling Price flag, I bet 99% of the people would not identify it.
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MAJ Jay Callaham
COL Victor Hagan - This flag, and its later variants up through 1865, flew over a slave nation far longer than did the Confederate flag variants.
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SFC Robert Falco
COL Victor Hagan - Tell that to the people in the internment camps, etc.
People need to get over the shit that happened to their "people" decades, centuries, time immortal before they were even conceived. As for "slavery", it started long before colonial america and continues to this day in more than one form.
People need to get over the shit that happened to their "people" decades, centuries, time immortal before they were even conceived. As for "slavery", it started long before colonial america and continues to this day in more than one form.
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SGT Russell Colburn
MAJ Ronnie Reams - As I recall Sir because of the confusion on the battle field, the Confederate Flag (which was mostly white) was replaced with the Battle Flag. They were not surrendering. It was basically saying " Put up your dukes". Where're coming to kick you ass. But still served as a Command and Control of maneuvering units.
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