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Why are so many leaders afraid of being accountable for their actions and decisions?
Honesty beats false positivity in our line of work. The military is a breeding ground for “yes men/women”. I’ve heard countless times “we can’t tell the boss that”….well, what happens when you don’t tell the boss the bad news? Important things get missed.
Missing Soldiers don’t get reported. Fraud, waste, and abuse of taxpayers money gets over looked. Sexual Assault/harassment doesn’t get reported. Iraqi/Afghan Soldiers get a free pass to be substandard. The “gender inclusive PT test standard” gets shoved in everyone’s face…the list could go on.
Telling the boss what you think they want to hear vs what they need to hear is absolute, nonsense. Not accepting the truth for what a situation is, because you don’t want to upset the boss is weak. If that’s you, you’ve got no guts and don’t need to be leading anyone. We need to rid the military of careerist pigs, and get people in leadership positions who want to do this job, and do it with some integrity. Just my .02 cents.
Honesty beats false positivity in our line of work. The military is a breeding ground for “yes men/women”. I’ve heard countless times “we can’t tell the boss that”….well, what happens when you don’t tell the boss the bad news? Important things get missed.
Missing Soldiers don’t get reported. Fraud, waste, and abuse of taxpayers money gets over looked. Sexual Assault/harassment doesn’t get reported. Iraqi/Afghan Soldiers get a free pass to be substandard. The “gender inclusive PT test standard” gets shoved in everyone’s face…the list could go on.
Telling the boss what you think they want to hear vs what they need to hear is absolute, nonsense. Not accepting the truth for what a situation is, because you don’t want to upset the boss is weak. If that’s you, you’ve got no guts and don’t need to be leading anyone. We need to rid the military of careerist pigs, and get people in leadership positions who want to do this job, and do it with some integrity. Just my .02 cents.
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Leadership Development
Leadership Development
Posted 2 y ago
Responses: 6
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Can't speak to the Army, but cannot imagine there's a difference. The leadership group that is absolutely promoted and paid to give senior officers an unvarnished view is E-7 through CWO5. If they can't or won't they should turn in their khakis and hit the bricks. Doesn't matter if the O-zone doesn't want to hear it. Doesn't matter if they have to brace for blowback.
'Course, I'm 20+years removed and from my outside looking in position, there's some strange crap going on in my Navy (Marines, Army, AF, CG)
'Course, I'm 20+years removed and from my outside looking in position, there's some strange crap going on in my Navy (Marines, Army, AF, CG)
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SSG Bill McCoy
Agreed Chief; but I'd say that's the job of EVERY NCO or Petty Officer, regardless of rank; at least when in a direct position to do so. I can't count how many times as a SGT/E-5 or SSG/E-6 that I tried to dissuade someone more senior from a not so good decision. Wasn't always agreed with, of course, but NEVER chastised for it. A few times, I was thanked.
One humorous event:
We had a Provost Marshal (PM) who was a stickler for spelling and grammar on the Police Blotter. A suspect was from Pittsburgh, PA and his HOR (Home of Record) stated that. The MP Duty Officer, a Captain INSISTED it was spelled as Pittsburg. I explained to him that, "Yes, in TEXAS that Pittsburg is as you say; but in PENNSYLVANIA, it has a "h" on the end. Nevertheless, after some friendly-like arguing, he finally said, "It's a direct order Sarge ... CHANGE IT!" A day later, he came to me and, again with humor, apologized noting that the PM said the same thing.
One humorous event:
We had a Provost Marshal (PM) who was a stickler for spelling and grammar on the Police Blotter. A suspect was from Pittsburgh, PA and his HOR (Home of Record) stated that. The MP Duty Officer, a Captain INSISTED it was spelled as Pittsburg. I explained to him that, "Yes, in TEXAS that Pittsburg is as you say; but in PENNSYLVANIA, it has a "h" on the end. Nevertheless, after some friendly-like arguing, he finally said, "It's a direct order Sarge ... CHANGE IT!" A day later, he came to me and, again with humor, apologized noting that the PM said the same thing.
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Counterpoint: why do we have so many commanders who cannot tolerate hearing anything other than what they want to hear?
It’s a self licking ice cream cone
It’s a self licking ice cream cone
CW3 (Join to see)
Careerists….can’t allow anything in that rocks the boat, and when they have a major issue, they'll pretend to not have seen it coming.
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CW3 (Join to see) I asked my mentor, a SGM, one time if he thought I could make the transition to warrant when an opportunity arose for me to do so and among others things he said “one of the problems you might have is that job requires a scalpel, and you’re one of my favorite hammers”
That meant and means a lot to me lol
That meant and means a lot to me lol
SSG Bill McCoy
Sarge, when you retire, you may be shocked if you enter the civilian workforce - ESPECIALLY in a corporation. Executives proved to be almost ALL inclined to not appreciate candid statements or recommendations. I once had a VP scream at me in a high level Human Resources meeting when I answered his question. Fortunately, my boss was there and he, in a similar tone, told the VP, "HEY! YOU ASKED him, and he gave you an HONEST reply!"
The next two bosses after him were tagged as, "No wave managers," and that really was like bing in the suck!
The next two bosses after him were tagged as, "No wave managers," and that really was like bing in the suck!
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SSG Bill McCoy I have worked in the civiiian world. My experience is the opposite. Most civilian managers have not gone to successive series of “leadership” schools that tell them how special and different they are just by being there.
I love the army, but it does not encourage lateral or outside the box thinking beyond the immediate tactical level. It encourages soldiers to do the thing their predecessor did because that’s always what we’ve done.
Bonus thought: that’s why so many people leave the military and struggle. That kind of thinking makes them poor citizens
I love the army, but it does not encourage lateral or outside the box thinking beyond the immediate tactical level. It encourages soldiers to do the thing their predecessor did because that’s always what we’ve done.
Bonus thought: that’s why so many people leave the military and struggle. That kind of thinking makes them poor citizens
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On exactly three occasions, I had "emperor has no clothes" moments.
On the first one, I was fired, sidelined, discredited, and forced to serve out that assignment in ignominy. I was a SGT at the time, and recovered.
On the second, I was not fired, but I was sidelined and the PTB made phone calls which took me out of my MOS in odd jobs for the next 7 years. I was a newly minted SFC at the time, and my career progression was effectively halted.
On the third occasion, nothing happened right away. I was shortly after (about 3 weeks) transferred to a different section (which was actually a POSITIVE career move because it finally put me working back inside my MOS). But that transfer came with a Change of Rater NCOER, which rated me as failing to meet expectations every single place they could justify it. It also triggered QMP, which I managed to "beat." I was (still) a SFC at the time, and what little traction I had gained in career progression and promotability was utterly demolished.
I retired a few years later. I made SFC in 10 1/2 years. Not incredibly fast, but certainly fast enough to see MSG before retirement. I had consistently glowing NCOERs (except for the one), and every single rater and senior rater (except for the one) consistently told me both in my rating and in general conversation that I was absolutely doing great things for the unit and for the Army. And that includes the multiple times I was an acting 1SG. While I have no illusions that I was the best thing since sliced bread or that I was the single best SFC in my MOS, let alone the entire Army, I do think that I was performing above expectations, and better than the majority of my peers. I have no doubt in *my* mind that I would have been promoted if I has simply kept my trap shut.
But wrong is wrong. While I did not end up with the the career I had hoped for, I *did* end up with a career which I am proud of, and I have no shame for my actions, nor any for actions I failed to take.
So... why are folks afraid to speak up? Don't ask me. Ask the folks who punish the truth tellers.
On the first one, I was fired, sidelined, discredited, and forced to serve out that assignment in ignominy. I was a SGT at the time, and recovered.
On the second, I was not fired, but I was sidelined and the PTB made phone calls which took me out of my MOS in odd jobs for the next 7 years. I was a newly minted SFC at the time, and my career progression was effectively halted.
On the third occasion, nothing happened right away. I was shortly after (about 3 weeks) transferred to a different section (which was actually a POSITIVE career move because it finally put me working back inside my MOS). But that transfer came with a Change of Rater NCOER, which rated me as failing to meet expectations every single place they could justify it. It also triggered QMP, which I managed to "beat." I was (still) a SFC at the time, and what little traction I had gained in career progression and promotability was utterly demolished.
I retired a few years later. I made SFC in 10 1/2 years. Not incredibly fast, but certainly fast enough to see MSG before retirement. I had consistently glowing NCOERs (except for the one), and every single rater and senior rater (except for the one) consistently told me both in my rating and in general conversation that I was absolutely doing great things for the unit and for the Army. And that includes the multiple times I was an acting 1SG. While I have no illusions that I was the best thing since sliced bread or that I was the single best SFC in my MOS, let alone the entire Army, I do think that I was performing above expectations, and better than the majority of my peers. I have no doubt in *my* mind that I would have been promoted if I has simply kept my trap shut.
But wrong is wrong. While I did not end up with the the career I had hoped for, I *did* end up with a career which I am proud of, and I have no shame for my actions, nor any for actions I failed to take.
So... why are folks afraid to speak up? Don't ask me. Ask the folks who punish the truth tellers.
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I’ve really come to believe that NCOER’s/ OER’s should include some sort of holistic feedback from subordinates for sure and peers probably. Not saying that would have helped in your circumstances and it ain’t my business anyway. But I’ve seen more than one insecure or bitter rater trash a good troop and checks and balances fail.
I have my own experience with a senior rater with an axe to grind so I get it. Too many raters rate to defend their own positions and not to evaluate yours
I have my own experience with a senior rater with an axe to grind so I get it. Too many raters rate to defend their own positions and not to evaluate yours
SFC Casey O'Mally
SFC Thomas Foreman I was lucky. My immediately preceding NCOER said that not only did I walk on water, but I could magically make the water I walked on appear from nowhere. (My nickname was "the wizard" due to my ability to get the ungettable supplies.). And I only had a few months until PCS, so I got a glowing NCOER after, too. One shitty NCOER sandwiched between two stellar ones, and a long history of great to awesome before... It was pretty obvious to the QMP board that that one was more about the rater/unit than it was about me.
So I beat QMP, but no one who is up for QMP can reasonably think they have a chance at the next higher grade. At least not for 5 years - and even then chances are low.
So I beat QMP, but no one who is up for QMP can reasonably think they have a chance at the next higher grade. At least not for 5 years - and even then chances are low.
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