A court agreed with a California high school's decision to ban the American Flag. Do you agree with their decision?

2014-05-05T10:34:13-04:00

In a shocking decision, a federal court of appeals – the Ninth Circuit – just ruled that it was acceptable for a school to ban the American flag.

Even worse, the court allowed the display of the Mexican flag, but not the American flag.

The Court held that the American flag could be banned because the kids displaying the flag were threatened.

But shouldn’t the school stop the threats rather than ban the flag?

This is a key First Amendment battle. Displaying the American flag is free speech, and we can’t stifle patriotic free speech in the face of anti-American threats.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 10:38 AM

2014-05-05T10:38:47-04:00

Sorry, (and this will probably be an unpopular opinion) but I have a hard time with the whole "I can express my first amendment rights in high school". School is meant to learn, not to display your personal opinions. And if this is the case I'm thinking of, it was a group of kids who intentionally wore American Flag t-shirts on a day that was meant to celebrate Mexican American heritage. They were intentionally seeking to antagonize and were "shocked" when they got told to knock it off. It's the same as letting kids wear confederate flag shirts to school - you know it's going to antagonize others, so schools should be able to ban the wear to preserve a learning environment. If you want to exercise free speech, go do it on your own time and leave it out of the schools. Schools should be able to ban behavior that is intentionally disruptive as it's not fair to the other kids who just want to get an education.

/my opinion as a parent

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 10:44 AM

2014-05-05T10:44:30-04:00

If this is regarding the American flag being displayed on cinco de mayo, it is a complete joke. I fail to understand how you can ban the American flag--in America. Didn't know the flag could incite such riots and animosity--in America. I was really hoping this came from a satire website.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made May 5 at 2014 10:52 AM

2014-05-05T10:52:41-04:00

Sorry, but the court's decision pisses me off. While understand that the school more or less did it as means of protecting, for lack of a better term, the students from themselves, lol, the fact that the students of Hispanic heritage have been and are able to pretty much get away with disrespecting the very country that allows them the freedoms to celebrate their heritage is to me, hypocritical. Whether the non-Hispanic students were antagonizing or not, they should not have been prevented from displaying their love of country by wearing an American flag shirt. SMFH.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 1:02 PM

2014-05-05T13:02:42-04:00

Where? I would love to shove the other flag up the judge's A---hole as I am kickin' him / her down the street to the Mexican border w/o a passport, phone, food, drink, or supplies!

Response by SFC Stephen P. made May 5 at 2014 1:09 PM

2014-05-05T13:09:14-04:00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_District

Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District, 393 U.S. 503 (1969) was a decision by the United States Supreme Court that defined the constitutional rights of students in U.S. public schools. The Tinker test is still used by courts today to determine whether a school's disciplinary actions violate students' First Amendment rights.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made May 5 at 2014 2:48 PM

2014-05-05T14:48:07-04:00

IMHO this is another example of how far this country has deteriorated.

We have always (and always will) welcomed people from other countries BUT think back when everyone entered Ellis Island, they did everything they could to learn the language and make a better life for themselves. They had love and respect for this country and our flag.

I think we have slowly gotten away from that and now we are told we must "Respect" the country they came from and not our own. Here in Florida I would guess 25% of the cars have flags from other countries on it. While I have no problem with respecting other countries, I think if you feel the need to fly the flag of the country you left why not be proud enough to go back and change that country and leave this one alone.

Maybe I am off base but I am a Proud American and believe the American Flag is the only flag that should be flown on our soil.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 3:27 PM

2014-05-05T15:27:35-04:00

Not to incite any hostility about the education system, but how many of these students, causing others' rights to be restricted, are actually legal. It is sad that they can get free college when even good legal student's can't. I love immigrants and the culture and such that they bring, I just prefer for them to be legal.

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made May 5 at 2014 4:04 PM

2014-05-05T16:04:35-04:00

Have we become so PC that everybody has to take everything personally.
Come one if the Hispanics want to were the Mexican flag let them and the same for everyone else. It's a Tshirt (get real).
We are so scared of offending someone that we end up offending and alienating everyone.
When the immigrants came through Ellis island they all moved into a community with the same immigrants, the spoke the language showed national pride, did that make them not care or love this country. No it did not nor did it make them lesser Americans.
Parents and school officials need to get off the PC wagon and stop whining and running scared

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 5 at 2014 7:29 PM

2014-05-05T19:29:39-04:00

So its safe to say that they don't say the pledge of allegiance in homeroom.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made May 5 at 2014 8:49 PM

2014-05-05T20:49:55-04:00

What a bunch of morons! I have met some really bad judges - but these guys take the cake. They should be reported to the independent judicial review board for remonstration.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 6 at 2014 12:50 PM

2014-05-06T12:50:45-04:00

There are schools in California that REQUIRES you speak spanish to go there. If you are not proficient in both languages you can not attend school there. To further add insult to injury, its also the only school in the district that has a FREE after school program.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Jul 2 at 2014 9:36 AM

2014-07-02T09:36:51-04:00

I have lived in a bi-cultural society since birth, born and raised in south Texas. I grew up speaking spanish and english, and until I went to junior high, I spoke with a spanish accent, as did most everyone I knew, black, white or brown.
I also grew up being proud of being a "Heinz-57" American, so it shocked me, when, a few years ago, I read that a school in California allowed the Mexican flag to be hoisted onto the flag pole and the American flag taken down. I was even more stunned to hear that students who wanted to honor their own flag, were barred from doing so.
I first thought about the automatic jail-time given any American south of the border should we try to hoist our own flag. I thought of the jail time given for any American who tries to live there without consent... and I realize that something is very, VERY wrong with this country.
Soldiers ordered to 'celebrate Ramadan (Misspelled?), our very flag banned... thousands of sick and unaccompanied children filling up the border... I'm simply at a loss to understand much of this age... I must be far too old, and I've been left behind with all the viewpoints now popular...

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2014 12:58 PM

2014-07-02T12:58:59-04:00

ANYONE who immigrates to the US who may be offended by the American flag does not belong here. If they come to take part in the American Dream, then assimilate into the culture or leave.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 2 at 2014 1:02 PM

2014-07-02T13:02:59-04:00

Meh.....it's California. About par for the course out of them.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2014 1:09 PM

2014-07-02T13:09:09-04:00

A few tidbits from the U.S. Flag Code:

§174. Time and occasions for display - (g) Display in or near schoolhouses
The flag should be displayed during school days in or near every schoolhouse.

§176. Respect for flag - (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

Summary, flag by code should be flown at the school. Students who wore the flag on their shirts violated the U.S. Flag Code. However this is just a code and not a law. It is more about reverence for an living embodiment then enforcement of a law.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Jul 2 at 2014 11:07 PM

2014-07-02T23:07:37-04:00

SSG Robin Rushlo What kind of bull shit is this? Is this not America? Why support a separate entity while at the same time denying our citizens the right to wear, carry or otherwise display the flag of the Nation they live in? This is just wrong in so many different ways.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 2 at 2014 11:37 PM

2014-07-02T23:37:16-04:00

Flying the American flag has nothing to do with freedom of speech and everything to do with THIS IS AMERICA!!! THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO!!

This isn't the US of Mexico or the US of Botswana or the US of China. It's the US of America! The AMERICAN flag and the flags of the 50 AMERICAN states fly over this land. No others!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2014 10:50 AM

2014-07-06T10:50:01-04:00

If thats the case, then I think funding from AMERICAN tax payers should be cut. I cannot believe that this type of thing is happening on AMERICAN soil. If people are offended by the AMERICAN flag, then feel free to leave AMERICA. Go move to the Middle East or Russia

Response by SrA Eric Olsen made Jul 8 at 2014 7:27 PM

2014-07-08T19:27:18-04:00

Banning the American Flag anywhere in this country smacks of censorship and control to me. In my opinion any public school , housing community or business tries to ban the Flag of the United States of America should be boycotted. My family has been serving under Old Glory since the American Revolution and to ban it anywhere in this country is a slap in the face to the men and women who have fought under her and given part of themselves or their all.

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made Jul 9 at 2014 11:31 AM

2014-07-09T11:31:49-04:00

President Roosevelt said it best. I don't remember the exact words, but he said that if you come to this country to become an American. You need to BE an American and ONLY an AMERICAN. That means flying and respecting the AMERICAN flag. If you still want to be something else, go back there!

Response by SrA John Broadwater made Jul 18 at 2014 12:10 PM

2014-07-18T12:10:08-04:00

When will it stop. That because it offends a few it should not be displayed. We are to much in a state of not offending the few. When I was growing up ever morning saluted the flag. We all stood up for it. Now because it offends someones belief they don't have stand. WHAT ever happen to seperation of church an state .

Response by SSG Robin Rushlo made Jul 18 at 2014 12:14 PM

2014-07-18T12:14:18-04:00

A second state has reviewed this court action and said it will not use this as a standard in any of the courts findings. Way to go Arizona

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made Jul 18 at 2014 12:48 PM

2014-07-18T12:48:35-04:00

When I went to school there was an American flag in every room and we all said the pledge of allegiance every morning. In first grade we would sing grand ole flag after the pledge.

What is America coming to? This is another example of dividing our country. I also view this as an attempt to stifle patriotism. What will the next generation be like? Will it be offensive to even utter the word America? Insane!!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2014 3:45 PM

2014-07-18T15:45:40-04:00

I think it is absolutely ridiculous that a school has banned flying of the American flag. If the flag of this country offends you to the point you want to ban it, then you can leave my country and give up all of the rights that were given to you when you arrived.

This is a perfect case of "Have your cake and eat it too". They want the American freedoms without having to be American.

Response by SP5 Tom Carlson made Jul 19 at 2014 11:40 AM

2014-07-19T11:40:47-04:00

It is time to Boycott California and it's products

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jul 19 at 2014 1:31 PM

2014-07-19T13:31:25-04:00

I guess Soldiers can forget showing up in ACUs to pick up their children from school. It might make someone feel oppressed from a democratic regime what gives them rights of private ownership, the right to select your own church, the right to assemble freely, etc.

Response by SSG Mike Angelo made Jul 19 at 2014 6:40 PM

2014-07-19T18:40:04-04:00

SSG Robin,

Got a current reference or new story?

This is not new. California is a different town, especially up in the Bay Area. Someone from the military who is moving there may have the perception of a foreign occupation from several countries.

For a State like California and in the bottom 48, the local school has alot of power. To minimize violence, California schools are in charge of their facility and have the responsibility of the safety and security of their children. The gang violence and individual vigilante violence is very real.

The climate and culture of diverse cultural California Bay Area public schools are not friendly.

Service members moving back or going to the Bay Area will have to adjust to this culture or find another State to live.

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/court-rules-school-can-ban-u-s-flag-shirts-to-avoid-violence

Court Rules School Can Ban U.S. Flag Shirts to ‘Avoid Violence’ | The Federalist Papers

How did we ever get to a place where students can’t even display the American flag in an American school, because they're afraid other students will attack them because of it? Via The Blaze: Officials at a Northern California high school acted appropriately when they ordered students wearing American flag T-shirts to turn the garments inside out during the Mexican independence celebration Cinco de Mayo, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2014 9:51 PM

2014-07-19T21:51:10-04:00

Yet another sad day to be an American.

Response by CSM Guy R. Niles made Jul 20 at 2014 12:51 PM

2014-07-20T12:51:47-04:00

Another Knee-Jerk, Short-sighted decision made by ill-prepared, unqualified (alleged) problem solvers. Communities and Veterans are compelled by circumstance to work together on this and other issues for a desirous outcome. We battle those who do not elect to or openly refuse to assimilate, thank you ACLU for that! Those waving other flags and colors (with other than a pure intent) than those of the Unites States, directly impact and threaten the Civil Liberties and belief systems of those that did assimilate or became immersed in America for all of the right and best reasons. Not on my Watch!

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2014 8:52 PM

2014-07-20T20:52:29-04:00

This reminds me of when I was in high school. The school would take the flag down unless someone important was coming. I didn't agree with it then and I don't agree now. Also in regards to the Mexican flag isn't the law no flag shall fly higher than the american flag?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2014 4:30 AM

2014-07-22T04:30:47-04:00

Not true you are twisting words around. It was a tee shirt not a flag. People need to understand that anything used to incite violence or disrupt a learning environment does not play on the 1st amendment. Ignorance is the problem here. Educate yourself before you put out info that is not correct. Not trying to create waves but just hate when people put there own spin on things or done really understand what they are reading.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2014 8:18 AM

2014-07-22T08:18:46-04:00

Would you happen to have a source on this? I find it a little tough to swallow...

Response by PO1 James Friedman made Jul 23 at 2014 3:57 PM

2014-07-23T15:57:31-04:00

Typical of the 9th circuit. Don't agree with it in the slightest, but I wasn't surprised.

Response by SGT Allison Churchill made Oct 2 at 2014 12:11 PM

2014-10-02T12:11:49-04:00

Just noticed this discussion after posting to another one. I don't see this posted yet, so here is the actual decision: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2014/02/27/11-17858.pdf

The United States flag was not banned. Shirts displaying the United States flag were not banned. The Mexican flag was not allowed. Two students admitted they knew wearing shirts displaying the United States flag would make their Mexican classmates angry, and they were asked to turn the shirts inside out or go home with an excused absence. They weren't punished, they were asked to not make an already volatile situation worse.

Life is too short to get riled up about things that aren't even true.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Mar 31 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-03-31T09:43:10-04:00

I say stop all Federal Funding for that school and State. They want to be Mexico. Let Mexicobpay for there schools and the State

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Mar 31 at 2015 9:54 AM

2015-03-31T09:54:35-04:00

Folks ... this has to do with clothing .. not the flag on the staff!

"A federal court upheld a ruling that school officials acted correctly in requiring students to remove clothing featuring U.S. flag designs on Cinco de Mayo."

And if you were real U.S. Citizen you would not disgrace the flag by using it as an article of clothing in the first place.

“The Flag Code addresses the impropriety of using the flag as an article of personal adornment, a design of items of temporary use, and item of clothing. The evident purpose of these suggested restraints is to limit the commercial or common usage of the flag, and, thus, maintain its dignity.”

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Jun 25 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-06-25T14:49:31-04:00

The school in question needs to start enforcing the rules rather than looking to ban the flag. Its like the whiners are taking over the world, what will be banned next?

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2019 9:43 PM

2019-03-06T21:43:08-05:00

In my view, the 9th Circuit Court of appeals is Anti-American!