A new drug policy as of April says any history of drug usage DQ's me from a TS/SCI. I beleive My recruiter told me to lie. What do I do?

2017-07-18T16:30:33-04:00

Ok, so I have received a lot of responses and I figure I should update my question, I have come to the decision that I will not lie under any circumstances, according to my recruiter I am only disqualified from getting my security clearance as a civilian, so if I enlist I can still pursue my dream job eventually. It will most likely take longer but I'll be doing it the right way. When I posted this originally I was honestly wanting to tell the truth. All my research told me to but the circumstances made me feel a lot of pressure to lie so I was willing to post a public question to see if I was insane for (what I thought at the time) throwing away my dream over having experimented with pot twice in high school years ago.I knew that having posted this question publicly without even bothering to use a throwaway account would eliminate the option of lying, and I was looking for an excuse, to tell the truth. The overwhelming consensus of the replies I have received definitely helps me and I have told my recruiter my new plan. I will not be making any attempt to report my recruiter as he was very clear that he was not telling me to lie just informing me of what would happen if I told the truth

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 18 at 2017 4:32 PM

2017-07-18T16:32:44-04:00

Loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, INTEGRITY,personal courage

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 4:48 PM

2017-07-18T16:48:04-04:00

Well, for starters I would recommend you NOT do drugs if you want to join my beloved Military. If you have done drugs, and are concerned about losing your shot, then stop doing the damn drugs and delay your MEPS visit for at least 90 days, but still be honest on the paperwork. According the policy as I read it, "Applicants who fail the new drug tests are allowed to reapply after 90 days at the discretion of the particular service. An applicant who tests positive for any of the drugs twice is permanently disqualified from military service in any branch of the armed forces." Because, if you lie on your stuff about drugs, then your integrity and honor will then be questionable and I would then wonder what else you have lied about or will lie about, and I would have no use for you within my unit.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jul 18 at 2017 4:53 PM

2017-07-18T16:53:27-04:00

Don't lie, and report the recruiter for telling you to. Especially now that you have broadcast or inferred to God and everyone on a social media site that includes all elements of the service from veterans to active duty people that you have used drugs in the past.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 5:34 PM

2017-07-18T17:34:13-04:00

Carlos Lopez You will fill out a lot of forms during your lifetime. Always answer the questions, truthfully, and to the best of your ability. Good luck.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 5:45 PM

2017-07-18T17:45:56-04:00

What new policy are you referring to, by which agency? Do you have a link to it? Thanks.

Response by SGT Tony Clifford made Jul 18 at 2017 5:48 PM

2017-07-18T17:48:56-04:00

Tell the truth. You will still be allowed to join. You might be limited to what MOS you're allowed to do. When you reach a rank where they expect you to have a security clearance, this won't be an issue. I know a person who did drugs before joining and they were honest about it. That person was able to obtain a clearance although they were questioned about it. The big problem is if you're dishonest at some point. That is an instant fail as you can be blackmailed.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 18 at 2017 10:48 PM

2017-07-18T22:48:35-04:00

He's wrong, it doesn't DQ you. How many times?

Response by Cpl John Barker made Jul 18 at 2017 10:59 PM

2017-07-18T22:59:12-04:00

Unless you have a criminal record, don't be an idiot and tell them you did drugs. Problem solved, no idea why so many people shoot themselves in the foot with that one.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jul 18 at 2017 11:07 PM

2017-07-18T23:07:32-04:00

Disregard....misread his statement.

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Jul 19 at 2017 12:00 AM

2017-07-19T00:00:37-04:00

DON'T LIE, that would be extremely stupid and if your recruiter told you to lie he needs to be relieved.

Response by SPC Michael Longfellow made Jul 19 at 2017 12:31 AM

2017-07-19T00:31:58-04:00

Don't lie, its a Felony...

Response by CSM Clifford Fargason made Jul 19 at 2017 11:48 AM

2017-07-19T11:48:51-04:00

I have been retired for awhile but I used to review security clearance packets. Those who were honest Abbott past year were more apt to get a clearance than those who lied and ended up getting caught I the lie.

Response by SFC William H. made Jul 19 at 2017 12:38 PM

2017-07-19T12:38:28-04:00

AS a CI Agent who has done a LOT of Subject Interviews for clearances, I'm not really upset about PAST drug use. What really upset me was you throwing the recruiter under the bus. Now we have moved on from drugs to character and INTEGRITY.

Response by SSgt Jerrol Olson made Jul 19 at 2017 12:41 PM

2017-07-19T12:41:25-04:00

Once you start the path, you can't change it. Take responsibility for your actions, you'll get a waiver, assuming this was past behavior, and you'll get an acceptable MOS assuming meet the criteria. If your a damn genius you never know what your path holds.

Once it hits the paper and ears..

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jul 19 at 2017 12:43 PM

2017-07-19T12:43:58-04:00

Don't lie. If you want to use drugs, you should seek employment outside of the DoD. If you have quit using drugs, that is, your have been rehabilitated, I salute your accomplishment. Stay clean and sober and tell the truth.

You might consider carefully examining any other information you received from this recruiter. If he tells you to lie, then he has little respect for the truth.

Response by CPT Joshua Hill made Jul 19 at 2017 12:48 PM

2017-07-19T12:48:43-04:00

1) Don't lie about it... if you do, and it is discovered, you will not get a clearance, and may/will be put out. 2) Past drug use does not automatically mean you won't get a clearance... it can be mitigated. 3) Provide sufficient information on your forms so that anyone making a determination has an accurate picture of what you use was... what you used, when you used, and how often you used it... trying pot a few times a few years ago, is different than doing coke once a day until last week. 4) Google is your friend, there are lots of resources on how the clearance process works and you can figure out how your particular use may affect your ability to get a clearance. 5) See #1.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Jul 19 at 2017 12:51 PM

2017-07-19T12:51:35-04:00

No don't lie. You should disqualify yourself with utmost integrity. Go be a truck driver, mechanic, or artilleryman, they don't require security clearances. That is, if your utmost honesty doesn't get you disqualified by the doctor in the physical exam.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2017 12:53 PM

2017-07-19T12:53:08-04:00

Your recruiter is an idiot and needs reported. NEVER lie on a SF86 or any government form. Ever. If they find out you lied on the SF86 you can face punishment for that. Read the SF86 it tells you what happens if you lie.

I was a Battalion and Brigade S2 NCOIC - I processed 150 clearance in my first unit. I haven't done it in a few years now but let me tell you. I know that thing inside and out and worked with the base security office. Don't lie.

What new policy is there about you can't get a clearance if you have ever used drugs? I can't find it. From my experience processing these they take it on a whole person standard. So if you say you tried it once in college, they won't hold it against you. It's if you have a habit of using drugs or you are in debt.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2017 12:58 PM

2017-07-19T12:58:11-04:00

Okay after reading the comments let's all just realize - this kid screwed himself big time posting this on a public forum (if he used his real name) because any investigator who gets his packet could search him online and find this and either way he's screwed.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2017 1:45 PM

2017-07-19T13:45:08-04:00

Ask for a copy of the specific rule your current recruiter is citing. Get a new recruiter. Don't lie. To my knowledge no such rule exists. The recruiter likely mistaken. New recruiter may be more accurate. Apart from integrity issues - lying will trip you up at some point because you will get ultimately be caught - either by direct evidence - or because you ultimately contradict yourself. If anyone googles and asks about this discussion - my impression is you were confused by the implicit message of this authority figure - and you were very curious about what others who are either actively serving or have served would have to say about it. The universal advice is not to lie - and report anyone who directly or indirectly suggests lying on security clearance forms in particular or any other circumstances in general. You did not lie. Warmest Regards, Sandy :)

Response by TSgt Jye English made Jul 19 at 2017 2:05 PM

2017-07-19T14:05:26-04:00

Seriously?? Contemplating lying, in order to obtain a security clearance which requires you to have integrity... Your recruiter should know that background checks for certain clearance levels are VERY thorough, and they WILL find out the dirt if you try to hide it. Be honest.

Response by PO1 Brian Austin made Jul 19 at 2017 2:22 PM

2017-07-19T14:22:36-04:00

Don't lie, no matter what you believe your recruiter may have inferred. It'll catch up to you eventually. I was up front about my marijuana use before i enlisted. I ended up holding a TS/SCI for 30 yrs. Though that was 1980, different times back then.

I had collateral duties as Special Security Officer/Security Manager. I saw many files where cleared service member's, officers included, had documented prior drug use. All had one thing in common, they didn't lie or omit information on their SF86's. Drug use was the most common question i was asked about when member's were filling out SF86's. I always told them be completely truthful about any drug use. If investigators believe you to be lying or deceiving, they'll dig deeper and deeper and deeper...

Response by SPC Cameron Hale made Jul 19 at 2017 2:27 PM

2017-07-19T14:27:21-04:00

I heard the marines take window lickers.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2017 2:28 PM

2017-07-19T14:28:37-04:00

DO NOT LIE! Let me tell you what could very well happen if you do. 1. They will conduct a background check on you and dig. Depending on your security clearance depends on how far they dig. 2. They will find out sooner or later. 3. When they do find out, you FALSIFIED government documents. It is a CRIME to FALSIFY government documents. This is punishable under the UCMJ. 4. They will charge you and the defense "My recruiter told me to lie" will NOT hold up. 5. Best case, you receive a dishonorable discharge. Worst case, you spend you time in Fort Leavenworth military prison. So, DO NOT LIE!

Response by COL William Oseles made Jul 19 at 2017 4:43 PM

2017-07-19T16:43:40-04:00

Filing out a Security Questionaire and lying, giving a misleading answer or leaving out past transgression and the signing the questionaire where you state all the answers are true and correct is False Swearing. That is a Federal FELONY.
If it comes out later you are in a world of hurt.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jul 19 at 2017 11:17 PM

2017-07-19T23:17:36-04:00

Carlos Lopez Don't Lie, Since You Posted this Here in Public You are Kind of Screwed Anyway. Having Said that I will Say that When I joined Was Just After Vietnam and everybody was doing something or other and Lied that they weren't. I did do a Bit of Weed in High School (We Won't Discuss How Much) but I went on to be a Navy Spook for 21 Years with a TS/SCI Clearance until I Retired. I Also was Urinalysis Coordinator at one location and Master at Arms for an Admiral. "Shit Happens".

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2017 7:59 AM

2017-07-20T07:59:47-04:00

First, your recruiter lied. Then he didn't lie. Then you lied about lying. Bout now you only smoked twice and your recruiter didn't lie (but he/she really did)?

I suggest you find a different line of work. It doesn't take long to figure out a young Soldiers character and I see those individuals in front of my desk, reading them Part one more often than not. (Don't worry, I have a feeling you'll come to learn what Part one is in the near future if you join?).

Response by SSgt Jerrol Olson made Jul 20 at 2017 8:08 AM

2017-07-20T08:08:46-04:00

Dream job of..?

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 20 at 2017 8:30 AM

2017-07-20T08:30:42-04:00

If your recruiter danced around the edges of telling you to lie, but nudge, nudge, wink, wink, didn't tell you to lie, he/she needs to be reported, period, sooner rather than later, period.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jul 20 at 2017 11:41 AM

2017-07-20T11:41:28-04:00

oooookay.... again throwing the recruiter under the bus - If your recruiter informed you that certain answers would hinder the security clearance process, he/she was informing you. That is his/her job - that is not inferring you to lie. I am under the impression that you informed the recruiter that you smoked pot at some point in the past, and he/she informed you that that answer may hinder or actually deny your clearance. That is factual truth. Stop throwing the recruiter under the bus. The recruiter did not put the joint/pipe.blunt to your lips and tell you to inhale, you did that all by yourself. in other words, you made a choice, there are consequences for your choices, and it seems to me that you are trying to shift the blame to your recruiter instead of taking accountability and responsibility for your actions. At this point, I hope your clearance is denied, I would not want a Soldier with your lack of integrity, honor, and respect.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2017 12:32 PM

2017-07-20T12:32:58-04:00

"I will not be making any attempt to report my recruiter as he was very clear that he was not telling me to lie (although he clearly was, just not in a direct way that could get him in trouble)"

That doesn't make it any better and you're still not being truthful. He either told you to lie or he didn't. I don't think he did at all. I think you have no clue what you're talking about and perhaps the military isn't a fit for you.

Response by 1SG John B. Enlow made Jul 20 at 2017 9:21 PM

2017-07-20T21:21:16-04:00

I know this is a serious discussion, but as a former Army recruiter, trust me when I say you have no idea how many bizarre comments you hear from applicants. For example (True Story):
Me: Have you ever used illegal drugs to include marijuana
Applicant: Yes
Me: What was it?
Applicant: I don't know
Me: Huh?
Applicant: It might have been LSD someone slipped in my beer
Me: When did this happen?
Applicant: I don't remember

How would you handle this?

Response by SSG Kenneth Lanning made Jul 29 at 2017 3:16 AM

2017-07-29T03:16:47-04:00

I've done drugs, it's in my enlistment paperwork that I have, and had no issue getting a clearance - tell the truth no matter what. The background check they do is THOROUGH, they WILL interview family/friends depending on what level clearance you're applying for...don't leave them with something to find-willingly GIVE them something to look for so they can see you're honest and upfront.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Aug 11 at 2019 3:15 PM

2019-08-11T15:15:37-04:00

Drug usage will kill your security clearance, if you hoped to be a missile tech they might let you drive a truck. Happened to my friend, we went into the buddy program in 1975, he got busted for a joint so instead of a 2800 field he drove a truck. The recruiter didn’t lie really, but he didn’t tell you the entire truth. Whatever you do tell the truth, if you get caught lying you’ll be charged.

Response by SPC John Decker made Aug 11 at 2019 8:01 PM

2019-08-11T20:01:33-04:00

It's always easier to remember the truth. One or two lies are easy enough. More than that it starts getting confusing. Stick with the truth.

Response by COL William Oseles made Aug 11 at 2019 10:11 PM

2019-08-11T22:11:26-04:00

If you have a documented history of drug use, even in sealed records lying about it will get you in more trouble than the use when they find out. And odds are that they will are good as a TS/SCI background check is more than a simple criminal background check.