A new kind of Soldier

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 18:46:46 -0500

<p>Do we really punish these Soldiers or do we just let them be?  I find this appalling and another reason why some women have difficulties being respected.  This Soldier here in the pictures was a Soldier of mine when I was a DS for basic training.  I don't even recall her speaking.  She and I are not friends on Facebook but I saw these and have been upset all day.  Am I wrong?  If you are going to take pictures like this---- why would you post them publicly on Facebook? </p><p><br></p><p>I edited and removed the pictures because they lacked taste.  She was in several photos in her bra, multicams pants, and belly piercing.  She was half dressed.</p>

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2014 6:54 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 18:54:40 -0500

I think it is just poor taste and very inappropriate. However, many youngins' are doing this these days. She needs to be pulled aside and counselled. This falls in my realm of what should be common sense, but not everyone shares my views. It also disgusts me that I'm sure she has battle buddies that commented or liked it, yet none will stand up and politely let her know it is inappropriate. What happened to policing up your buddies? In the civilian sector, people are losing jobs and not being hired over what is on their social media accounts. Why do they think the military is any different?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2014 7:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 19:04:13 -0500

Something has been said and the pictures are still up. I find this to be another Soldier that DGAF.... If I knew where and who her chain of command was/is, I would definitely send this to them as her battle buddies have already sent her the regulation and told her these photos are inappropriate.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Mar 2 at 2014 7:25 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 19:25:58 -0500

Besides the hands in the pocket...what's wrong?  j/k<br><br>This happened over a year ago and was probably (hopefully) already handled.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Mar 2 at 2014 8:05 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:05:48 -0500

Why not? You posted them on here.

Response by SFC Anabel Cepero made Mar 2 at 2014 8:37 PM

SFC Anabel Cepero — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:37:07 -0500

SFC Ortiz,

I absolutely agree that this is wrong. If she wanted to show off her body she could've done it without the uniform. I mean I don't get the whole selfie in your undies and uniform thing. Is this what the kiddos are up to nowadays?

She is sending the wrong message and I agree this Soldier should be reprimanded. The problem is when the Soldier gets reprimanded and still continues to do it. Clearly they DGAF like you stated. Unfortunately there are more of her out there. There has to be a good solution to this epidemic of distasteful pictures in uniform...

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Mar 2 at 2014 8:51 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:51:21 -0500

Why is it wrong for her to post them but alright for you to post them? 

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2014 8:56 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:56:44 -0500

Wait wait wait. The only reason I am responding to this is because of the "Females" tag you chose to use to categorize this post.<br><br>How it this any different than a male servicemember being shirtless with his camo pants on?<div><br></div><div>I dont consider myself to be a feminist, but I think that's a little unfair. If we as a society aren't going to have a hissyfit about a shirtless male in partial uniform, then.....we shouldn't get all huffy about a female doing it. Is a shirtless male being disrespectful if he is in partial uniform?</div><div><br></div><div>Should she have posted the pictures publicly? Prrrrrobably not. I cant understand why anybody would post half nekkid pictures of themselves publicly. </div>

Response by SSgt George Brown made Mar 2 at 2014 8:59 PM

SSgt George Brown — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 20:59:41 -0500

I think she will be rich! and that is what she is aiming for.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2014 9:08 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:08:26 -0500

What ever happened to that military divas and something page? Is it still running? That had even Seniors engaging in some compromising photos.

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Mar 2 at 2014 9:13 PM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:13:36 -0500

My point was that you don't have to post the pictures to favorably argue your point. I don't disagree that what she did is wrong, but was it right for you to re-post inappropriate images of another soldier? 

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2014 10:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 22:11:58 -0500

SFC Ortiz,

This photo is available to the public, so I agree that some type of disciplinary action is in order.

The photo on the right is in her profiles album on FB, which is viewable by all. Also, the fact that it's in her profiles album shows that at one point, this was the image she used as her public profile pic.

Response by SSG Dave Rogers made Mar 2 at 2014 10:15 PM

SSG Dave Rogers — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 22:15:06 -0500

I have mixed feelings about this. While I understand that it is against the UCMJ, I remember before the internet we would take photos of us standing around guys with their shirts off showing off their muscles. Again it is wrong, but it is also nothing new, what is new is the social media. The questions about how to handle social media is still something new. While soldiers should always lead my example, is it right for us to pry into peoples personal pages? That is the same as going through their photo album book. While she may be expressing herself in ways we dont agree with, looking over her page she never does these things at her unit, but takes these photos in the privacy of her own home. If my NCO visited my home and happen to see a photo like this of me in a photo album would he be allowed to punish me, or would he simple council me? Truthfully if I was her NCO I would and someone brought this to me, I would probable start off with asking her not to publicly post the photos, to keep them for only friends.

Again these are still questions being answered as the UCMJ has not caught up with the internet. I remember something like this when a middle school teacher posted a photo of herself on her facebook page of her on vacation in bikini by a pool. A parent saw the photo reported it to the school and she was fired. But a male teacher at the same school was photographed with just shorts on at a beach and no one said anything. We tend to hold women to a different standard when it comes to this kind of thing.

Again I am not saying what she did is right, but do we really want to head down this path?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2014 10:27 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 22:27:29 -0500

Social Media is a difficult situation. We, the older and followers of doctrine of the Army, look on and tsk tsk. As Soldiers, we defend the 1st Amendment, but we have difficulty actually allowing full Freedom of speech/expression. I recall as a junior enlisted soldier, probably before this Soldier was born, I had no risk of things such as this occurring. Obviously, looking at me, I had no risk of people having any "sexy" opinion of me. I am going to drop all rank except Father of four (two girls, two boys)...Have respect for yourself. Pictures such as these are fine for a select person with whom you have a special relationship, but to broadcast pictures such as these will only bring all of these opinions down on you. My unit trains Battalion and higher units on such lofty ideals as Mission Command, which would say she needs some Commander's Guidance in order to demonstrate Discipline Initiative to propel herself to her best possible outcome. Counseling, not the public stockade that she is enduring right now, is what should have been pursued to correct this behavior/thought process.

Response by SGT Jeremy Schlueter made Mar 2 at 2014 10:38 PM

SGT Jeremy Schlueter — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 22:38:38 -0500

SFC Ortiz, indeed she needs to be corrected but I appreciate your efforts to solve the problem at the lowest level. I've seen too many people jump right to the extreme when it could've been solved much easier. Regardless of whether she listened or not, thanks for being an example, it's encouraging.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2014 11:14 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 23:14:13 -0500

Honestly to be punished for taking such pictures would be against what we fight for our freedom! At the same time we shouldn't allow soldiers to just think that they can do what they want without any kind of action taken against the soldier. I agree with Amanda Hicks if it is ok for males to do it then in turn should be ok for females. Either way it is really not for us to judge a person on what they post on there social media. I don't agree with the picture but at the same time I don't think that she should be lets say kicked out or severely punished over such photo.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 3 at 2014 11:29 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Mon, 03 Mar 2014 23:29:40 -0500

One must be careful about pictures like that. She wouldn't want to become someone's new meme.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2014 12:41 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 19 Apr 2014 12:41:33 -0400

I think we have to evolve discipline with the time we are in.

As social media has evolved, I think the Army has done an ok enough job trying to keep up with it. Ths behavior cannot be ignored or else it will turn into the new norm.

Also, having said that, guys take pics of themselves with no shirt on in their uniform.

Both your female soldier and males that do this are doing the same thing.

Now, is it disrespectful to the uniform and does it warrant UCMJ? I can't really say, my vote would be no, but their are higher ranking individuals that need to make the call on that.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 12:44 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 00:44:41 -0500

I have a question for SFC Blasa Ortiz or any other DS (current or recently toured). How much time is used to go over the problems of social media, public image, opsec, and so on.

I am not being an apologist for poor behavior, I am genuinely curious if the training has caught up with current trends and possible challenges due to those trends.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 7:09 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 07:09:10 -0500

A lot of these things are not really wrong but they are in extremely poor taste. The are objectifying themselves. whether they like it our not you don't know how others may view it. I don't post gym selfies. It only takes one person to take it the wrong way and it can turn side ways. An example of this would be if her first line supervisor "Liked" the comment or if they would have left comment of them being sexy. If you want to do that I don't have an issue with it. That is fine but you should mix the military with it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2015 9:58 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Jan 2015 09:58:44 -0500

Eh. Soldiers are Soldiers. In 1942 there were these same types of things and we made it out okay. If you want to talk off line to her so be it, but to me I have seen enough guys do the same thing and they still are respected (well inside jokes do occur from time to time).

The internet is full of men and women just like her, education may help but not the other millions of others. In the age of snapchat and a cell phone in everyone's pocket - it is a messy affair.

If it was my Soldier, I may have sent an email through ako so its on record stating something formal like your Facebook privacy settings are not secure, the images you took could be construed in a demeaning manor, and all that. However, I think the new kind of Solider would wins ARCOMS for this same thing...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 5:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 17:09:30 -0400

I've been reading all these posts, and most SMs have very good points and all valid, depending on your point of view. But pictures of Soldiers shirtless is nothing new. Take a look at Vietnam, Korea, and even some WWII pictures. Someone always has their shirt off. I did not look at the pictures of the female in question, but I can imagine from other pictures I've seen. I may be throwing myself under the bus here, but I've been downrange where we worked shirtless in the middle of nowhere, Afghanistan and Iraq. Men and women, women kept on sports bras. But no one batted an eye, no one had problems because we were all working towards the same goal and performing the mission. My own personal opinion, there's a time and place. Now that being said, I keep those types of pictures to myself, for the most part. Although I do have an outstanding picture of me riding a donkey.

Response by A1C Justin Turnbow made May 25 at 2020 2:43 PM

A1C Justin Turnbow — Mon, 25 May 2020 14:43:25 -0400

This seems like something that could be solved by that troops immediate supervisor pulling her aside and having a chat (with some "pizzazz") and at the end of it, telling said troop to use their brains and conduct themselves as professionals from that point forward. An issue like that shouldn't go higher than an E6 level in my opinion.