a sensitive military?

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 20:50:02 -0400

As an NCO, and having been in for twelve years, I see the military changing in a way that I don't like. All my fellow NCO's and SNCO's have noticed the way our military is having to bend to everyone's specific issues. Compassion, sensitive to everyones feelings, cant say certain things because someone might be offended. When I first came in, we were harassed relentlessly, but It built respect and discipline among the enlisted. We respected our NCO's and talked to them with as few words as possible, while trying our hardest not to piss them off. Now, its the complete opposite. I passed an E-3 the other day, and he looks at me and says "tsup man". I tactfully lost my shit and put him against the wall, without laying hands on him, which I was taught to do from my NCO's when I was a dipshit. I was reprimanded for it and was told I have to be nicer and not so short with my troops, (from a MSGT) Seriously?! What happened to our military? I'm ashamed to wear my uniform sometimes and finding myself resentful at times as well. I can adapt just as well as the next guy, but I feel our heritage is getting shit on.

Response by MSG Jose Colon made Mar 21 at 2014 10:43 PM

MSG Jose Colon — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 22:43:04 -0400

In my humble opinion, our Nation is dulling our competitive edge. Our kids are taught not to compete and win, just to participate. This, makes us weak.

That being said, being considerate of others, respectful, and self restraint, are not weaknesses but strengths.

My parents taught me to be polite. I have not being weakened by that. Five combat tours, several engagements with the enemy, the 2nd ID TKD championship a decade ago, seems to prove that. Treating Soldiers with dignity and respect make them better Soldiers, not worst. Just make sure that you are tough but fair.

Soldiers will not be in the military forever, so it is smart to keep in mind your social skills. When we retire, there is a whole different world out there, and those who cannot adapt, end up broke, and in trouble.

Lousy Soldiers? NCOs know how to deal with them. Lead from the front, counsel them properly, not just to tell them that they suck, and they will follow you to hell and back.

The few that cannot adapt, process them out.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 21 at 2014 10:56 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Fri, 21 Mar 2014 22:56:41 -0400

Keep your focus and keep your passion alive. Train your Airmen and hold them to standards and DO NOT compromise on standards.

You are writing with a lot of passion in your words, I can feel it and I like it, but keep your head in the game.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2014 12:09 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:09:52 -0400

I just get frustrated. I'm fair and trust me, very forgiving. I just want guys to grow up and stop playing the system. I'm done bitching now.

Response by SPC(P) Delcina Myers made Mar 22 at 2014 12:13 AM

SPC(P) Delcina Myers — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:13:13 -0400

Makes you wonder if they are going to bring back the "Stress cards" that I have heard so much about, huh SSgt?

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2014 12:17 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 00:17:07 -0400

No respect equals they should not be in the US Armed Services. My opinion

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2014 2:26 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 02:26:29 -0400

Being a leader is tough and time consuming. Its tough because we have to be real with folks in order promote change or even a solid, fair environment. Its time consuming because we (LEADERS) have to be consistent which means taking extra time to mentor juniors and/or peers; being fair across the board. Not everyone will be happy, its part of it. As long as we enforce standards, structures and disciplines and are consistent with them along with being ethically, morally and legally correct, the "sensitive personnel" will either conform or ETS. That's how I see it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2014 8:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 22 Mar 2014 20:51:29 -0400

Ssgt Benway, It sounds like to me that through relentless harassment from your leaders you learned fear instead of respect. If as you say you tried to say as few words as possible and not piss off your leadership.

This E3 that failed to render a courteous acknowledgment you tactfully lost your sh** with, you placed him against the wall without your hands, and then what? Did you calmly explain to him customs and courtesies and the proper way to greet senior personnel?

I can understand your frustration. Your superior told you to be nicer and not so short. He may have meant to be just as respectful in correction as you want in return. That is not synonymous with coddling. Has nothing to do with feelings. You shouldn't be ashamed to put on your uniform and lead. Instruction on proper courtesies is a part of leading.

Let me know if I'm off base here and have misunderstood your original post.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2014 4:26 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Mar 2014 16:26:37 -0400

Lol, yeah I completely agree, the quasi wussification of America is starting to hit the Army. I have a vbad feeling for us in the next war. How are we suppose to win wars if we worry to much about feelings.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 8:57 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 20:57:38 -0400

After reading all the posts I see alot of different positions here. Currently I work as an Instructor on the Ordnance side of Fort Lee. We process about 3000 soldiers a year and only have a problem with about 1/3 of them. The other 2/3s seem to figure out that this is real life and their actions will have consequences. Most of my career was spent in combat arms and the mentality is alot different than it is in the support world. It all depends on the soldiers you are dealing with on how you should approach them. The days of cussing a soldier out and expecting them to move out is no more. You will gain alot more respect from these new soldiers if you lead by example (like all NCOs and leaders are suppose to do), and talk to them like human beings. I have soldiers come to me all the time for advice. One thing you need to remember is most of these soldiers come from broken families and have no idea what right is suppose to look like. The leaders of today take on the role as coach, mentor, (and if need be) somewhat of a parental figure for the soldiers to look up to. I've been a platoon sergeant before and I've been given the "troubled soldier" before. I was able to turn that soldier around and mold him into an outstanding soldier and future leader. I explain to my soldiers all the time that it is our job as leaders to take care of the them, whether it be leading them in combat or taking care of daily tasks they never learn before coming in. If you dont live by the NCO creed and instill the army values in todays new soldiers then our future leaders and future army will fail. It is our job to train, coach, and mentor these young souls so they can do the same in the day. If we teach them a toxic leadership style then that is what they will do to their soldiers when they become leaders. Hopefully this helps and somewhat inspires some of you to take a look at yourselves and see if you need to make some changes. As I tell my soldiers all the time, if the shoe fits then wear it, if it does not apply then move on.

Response by SSG Paul Ellis made Jun 8 at 2015 8:07 PM

SSG Paul Ellis — Mon, 08 Jun 2015 20:07:04 -0400

I know exactly what you're talking about. I remember back when I was on the platform at Ft. Gordon, I was talking with a Drill Sergeant who'd just left Ft. Jackson. He said they couldn't make soldiers repel down Victory Tower anymore. If the soldier was uncertain or scared, they had to let him climb back down the stairs. I loved repelling when I was in Basic, but I remember Drills practically throwing some recruits off the tower. (They were perfectly safe. Another Drill was on belay. And they were better for it. Lost their fear.)

In my experience at Gordon, the instructors were told we couldn't drop students anymore. Replacing that tried and true disciplinary measure, we had to verbally counsel the student twice, give him 2 written counselings, send him up the chain to the course NCOIC and have her counsel him, then SHE could drop him. I taught in the basement a lot so I did it anyway. The reasoning was that the IET experience should be more like a college campus. Yeah.

The worse coddling I ever saw at Gordon was the stress card. I'd heard that students had been given cards in basic to hold up when they were "too stressed out" by the training and the policy was for them to use them at IET also. One of the students pulled it on me (serious as anything) in the middle of a lecture. I couldn't believe my eyes. The legendary stress card. Now, I taught the Information Systems course. Computers. After resisting the urge to tear the card in half (to relieve MY stress) I proceeded to tell the student exactly what I thought of the card and him and how he thought he would be a soldier if he couldn't handle the stress of school...which apparently stressed him more. I ended up sending him to the NCOIC and she sent him back to the Drill Sergeant.

I blame modern society. Kids today (mostly) live in a stress-free environment. They're not pushed to do anything and don't actually go thru life like we did growing up.