Academically, how does the USMA (West Point) compare to Ivy League schools?

SSG Carlos Madden — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:20:12 -0400

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 1:32 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:32:27 -0400

It depends what you're looking at.. Most of rankings focus on selection rates, and student placement after graduation. West Point doesn't have the best academic programs in the country in regards to academics (they're great, no question about it, but not the best. Again, it all depends what you compare), but is still considered a top school for its prestige and number of scholars. Then, they have specific programs that are amazing, offer great networking opportunities and life experience. Being a military school opens doors.

My two cents, rankings are completely subjective to the ranking organism. College is what you make out of it.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Mar 15 at 2016 1:33 PM

SFC J Fullerton — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:33:06 -0400

Since I never attended either, I can't compare academically. But I would speculate that perception wise by the average civilian (and corporate employer), there is no comparison. I would be curious to hear from the West Point grads if they ever felt like their WP diploma was looked on as less than a major university after leaving the Army.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Mar 15 at 2016 1:35 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:35:50 -0400

- A few thoughts:
- Short answer: Yes, USMA does compare to Ivy League Schools academically.
- Long answer. "compare academically" is really a vague term. Better definition is needed but some criteria to use to evaluate can include but are not limited to: # applicants, # applicants accepted, # scholars (Rhodes, other), quality of faculty, quality of curriculum. Additional criteria and data can be obtained from several primary and secondary sources such as the schools themselves and the annual US News and World Report edition comparing colleges.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Mar 15 at 2016 1:44 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:44:45 -0400

When I was a cadet from 1976 to 1980 USMA at West Point compared well in many respects to the Ivy League schools undergraduate programs. Since the military training was somewhat unique to west Point that didn't compare. However academically we compared favorably but as cadet that didn't matter to us at all because we had most of our days taken up with academics, physical activities including sports, drill and ceremony, studying at night, etc. Our days were pretty full from about 0600 to 2200 or so. After plebe year we had some weekends we could take off Saturday afternoon to Sunday evening. I expect that the program is similar and expect it is still challenging to meet the entrance requirements.
The fact that were paid to attend school while Ivy League schools tended to be expensive.
Our salary wasn't much because we were given 50 of a 2LT salary from some time in the 1960's When I was there and most of the money was held to pay for our educational materials - slide rule, books, uniforms, etc. Eventually once hand held calculators were functional we traded in slide rules for calculators. Now cadets have personnel computers and probably tablets by now.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 2:31 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 14:31:42 -0400

I went to the "other" academy...but I imagine (from an academic standpoint) there are many similarities. Overall, I felt that I was there for one reason, and one reason only...to become an officer in the Navy or Marine Corps. It's impossible to prove, but I imagine any cadet or midshipman would perform either vastly "better" or "worse" at a civil university. Based on what my peers at civil universities have told me over the years, I would say that the vast majority of our course load was focused on technical, rather than esoteric materials...and that though broad in scope, the over-riding themes precluded any real sense of being on an "academic" journey so much as one of preparation for performing a technical and leadership role in the Armed Forces.

Response by SPC David S. made Mar 15 at 2016 3:18 PM

SPC David S. — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:18:48 -0400

As a former USAFA cadet and having received an appointment from both the USAFA and USMA and as well received an acceptance letter from Columbia and a full ride offer from Brown I feel confident in saying the selection process is similar. There is the one caveat in needing a congressional nomination for a service academy but other than that the schools are pulling from the same pool of candidates. As to the comparison in academics I can only offer a rather subjective answer as I did attend Rollins College. While only being $900 cheaper per year than Harvard I would consider Rollins a bottom shelf ivy league school. However all of my instructors at Rollins had a PhD. I can't say the say the same for Air Force. Class size was about the same (about 15) as Rollins' student population was very similar in size at around 5,000. The instructors were more approachable at Rollins often having dinners at their houses and as well would go out with their students and just hang out with them. Albeit as the students would usually buy - who doesn't like free drinks. The one thing, in retrospect, is that the teachers at Rollins were more interested in how your education was going to be applied than that at Air Force. As far as the information gleaned from the academics I would say the schools were equally academically challenging but I feel that could be again subjective based on instructors and courses.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Mar 16 at 2016 12:10 AM

CAPT Kevin B. — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 00:10:14 -0400

I was at West Point briefly before they decided they didn't like my eyes. I recall the curriculum had a challenge in that how can it do all the military training material while having a worthwhile degree? Answer, long hours but you didn't have to have a side job to eat. They found to be competitive academically, they had to be credentialed just like any other program. So "best" gets to be more an issue of style and status when 95% of what matters is the credential. I'm an engineer and note the USMA has been ABET certified for some time. So it is the equivalent to UCLA, MIT, or whatever program is out there. The difference tends to show more in post graduate studies which the service academies do not have that in their mission.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2016 2:58 AM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Mar 2016 02:58:18 -0400

Your question is incorrectly worded in the reverse. To the properly phrased question, the answer is there is no valid comparison. One is juxtaposing beef steak tomatoes with lima beans.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2016 4:10 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 04:10:30 -0400

Clearly, West Point is an Ivy League quality institution, as noted consistently in rankings of undergraduate institutions.

One drawback, though, is probably faculty quality. You aren't going to find too many non-PhDs teaching at Ivy League schools. Sure, you'll have TAs without PhDs involved in the teaching process, but they won't actually be the lead for a class. At West Point, most (or at least a large minority) of instructors will only have a masters degree. This compares more closely to a community college than an Ivy League school.