Addressing an officer by rank and name

2014-11-03T23:42:56-05:00

I was recently doing research that was tasked by one of the staff officers in my unit. Upon completion, I addressed the officer across the room: "Major 'Smith', I found what you were looking for...." The Major thanked me and asked me to forward it to him. Shortly afterwards, I was pulled aside by a SFC and informed that it was improper to address the officer in that manner; unless I was his peer or supervisor, I should always use "sir/ma'am".

I defended myself by pointing out that there were several "sirs" in the room and that required my use of Rank and Name to single out the target I was addressing.

My question for the RP nation: what is the correct protocol here?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 12:00 AM

2014-11-04T00:00:43-05:00

You can address them by rank and last name or by Sir/Ma'am. That is the proper method. If peer or supervisor you call by rank and last name if in front of subordinates and then by just last name or first name if you are alone or in a group at his/her level and above (ie: address LT by their first name when you are a BC and the S3 and XO are present). Though many NCOs are upset that officers call each other by their first name. It is not within the regulations, but is a common practice.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 12:35 AM

2014-11-04T00:35:16-05:00

Rank and last name is always appropriate regardless of the rank.

If you are around Officers long enough, you will notice that seniors will call their peers and subordinates by first name.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 12:41 AM

2014-11-04T00:41:35-05:00

Think you got your answer. Nothing to add that LTC Private RallyPoint Member and SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member didn't cover.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 12:45 AM

2014-11-04T00:45:59-05:00

Sounds fine to me, especially if there were other officers in the room. If you just said sir, then which one? The only thing I remember when I was in Army ROTC that it seemed improper to call an officer by his/her rank alone without last name unless they were a GO.

Long story short, I don't think you did anything inappropriate.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 1:09 AM

2014-11-04T01:09:54-05:00

Thanks all. I knew I was correct, but I thought the question might make some good RP fodder so I posted it.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 1:18 AM

2014-11-04T01:18:29-05:00

You were right the first time, and for the reason stated.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 1:50 AM

2014-11-04T01:50:57-05:00

The SFC is using his "interpertation" of the regulations. What you did is correct by the book and by practice.
The only other thing that I have to add is that the word is not "Sirs" it is "Gentlemen" if there is more than one present.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 10:56 AM

2014-11-04T10:56:52-05:00

Maybe that's an Army thing, but I have worked with predominantly Army, Marine, Navy and Coalition and the only thing I have heard is that use of simply "Sir/Ma'am" is the minimal standard. It is much more proper to use their rank and (last) name. For that matter, I have inadvertently used an officer's first name twice in my career - in both cases all present simply pretended they hadn't heard it (in one case, the officer was former enlisted and we had both worked on the same contract as civilians so had spent over a year being on a first name basis).

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 11:02 AM

2014-11-04T11:02:26-05:00

1SG Private RallyPoint Member, I would have done the exact same thing. I do understand wanting to put a "sir" in there somewhere. I might say, "Major Smith, I found what you were looking for, sir." Just to be extra careful and respectful, because I do see the SFC's point.

Response by SSG Jason Cherry made Nov 4 at 2014 11:34 AM

2014-11-04T11:34:11-05:00

This reminds me of people getting their panties in a bunch over addressing NCO's in the Army... IM A MASTER SERGEANT! Uh huh... E5,E6,E7,E8(without a diamond) are addressed as Sergeant. E8 with diamond, First Sergeant, and E9 whether SGM, CSM or SMA are addressed as Sergeant Major. As long as you know your regulations, good to go...

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Nov 4 at 2014 12:06 PM

2014-11-04T12:06:29-05:00

Well it is way better than yelling, "Yo dude"...just saying. LOL! I say that because I had a bad habit a couple of years ago calling everyone 'dude'. Luckily, my LTC was a understanding commander.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 12:14 PM

2014-11-04T12:14:56-05:00

since I have been in the military, thats all i've known, was to refere to an officer as ma'am and sir

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 21 at 2015 2:12 PM

2015-01-21T14:12:03-05:00

Working in a career field dominated by officers, I think you're fine using their rank and last name.

Response by SPC Lawrence Rosales made Jan 21 at 2015 2:47 PM

2015-01-21T14:47:29-05:00

Same situations have happened to me, and I've done the same by calling them by there rank and name due to the many other officers in the AO and I've never gotten chewed out for it.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 3:20 AM

2015-01-22T03:20:49-05:00

So, "Excuse me HOOAH!" Is out of the question?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 3:41 AM

2015-01-22T03:41:26-05:00

Wow, it is unfortunate that the SFC felt the need to address that situation. I could understand if you were disrespectful but you addressed the individual by Rank and Last name.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 4:23 AM

2015-01-22T04:23:56-05:00

AR 600-20 Ch 1 says it plain in black and white.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 8:49 PM

2015-01-22T20:49:45-05:00

Calling them by rank and name is appropriatein any setting. You may also call them by their position, like Commander or XO.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2015 11:15 AM

2015-04-01T11:15:19-04:00

I think you were 100% correct in the way you handled it...if you had yelled "Sir (or Ma'am)" across the room, how many people would have looked up confused?

I am not someone who memorizes every regulation, but in my experience (and understanding of common sense) you did the right thing.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Jun 23 at 2015 8:25 AM

2015-06-23T08:25:04-04:00

I believe you were doing the right thing, but there is a certain amount of horseshit involved, and it varies by service. In the Navy and Marine Corps, it is more correct to address an officer by his rank and name or just rank, rather than "Sir", but "Sir" is fine. In the Navy (and, perhaps, Coast Guard), addressing a junior officer (LCDR and below) by "MIster"(Miss/Mrs.) and his (her) last name is technically reserved for officers senior to him(her), but is often used as a sign of familiarity or affection by juniors, particularly substituting the first initial of the last name. (To my Divisions, I was always "Mr. G".)

The Army goes the other way, where "Sir" is preferable to rank and last name or rank alone, except, of course, when it would cause. confusion. Don't feel bad: my forward-deployed boss at CENTCOM was an Army O-6, I a Navy O-5. I thought I was being more respectful by addressing him by his rank and last name. He asked me if I thought he was an asshole, because I wasn't calling him "Sir" when I'd greet him in the morning. We were simply having a translation issue (which went both ways, because sometimes at meetings, he would simply refer to me by my last name...which I found offensive, even though, as the Senior, he may have the prerogative to do.) He would also refer to Chief Petty Officers as "Petty Officer", rather than "Chief", which is, of course, offensive. I'd set him right on such matters, courteously and in private, of course.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2016 2:32 PM

2016-04-15T14:32:44-04:00

If I had to get a superior officer's attention in a room full of superior officers, I said, "General Smith, sir." The next word out of my mouth was sir, followed by my question or statement.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Apr 15 at 2016 2:36 PM

2016-04-15T14:36:05-04:00

Some overly sensitive types get butt hurt over the use of rank and name.....they are flashing back to their LT. days when we could show our disdain of LT's by addressing them as such.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2018 5:38 AM

2018-05-13T05:38:49-04:00

You are correct, it is acceptable to address an officer by their rank, rank and last name or by Sir/Ma’am. The only time an officer can direct a subordinate address them as Sir/Ma’am only is when the subordinate is trying to deliberately be disrespectful, for example “What ever you say CPT Smith” (picture a crass undertone) or “You don’t know what you’re talking about Major”. Just my 2 cents.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 7 at 2018 9:46 PM

2018-10-07T21:46:05-04:00

That SFC was an idiot. I address every single O-grade in my unit by rank and last name. Why? Because I'm a CW3, and the second lowest ranking officer in my unit. If I holler "Hey Sir!" every single male officer is going to turn around. If I holler "Hey Ma'am", every single female officer is going to turn around. That causes confusion, for what?

Any O-grade who would chastise me for addressing them as "Rank Lastname" is an O-grade who's about power rather than authority. I tend to walk away from those kind and not talk to them. I'm at the point where I can get away with that too...so it's all good.

Response by PFC Ryan Battista made Mar 17 at 2019 9:12 PM

2019-03-17T21:12:15-04:00

Very, very simple; you say “Major Smith, sir...”

Still put a sir on the end; it’s one of the things you learn in MCBT. We address enlisted as sir until we earn our Marine hood lol so you would say “Sir, SSgt Willis, Sir! This recruit blah blah blah...”

Response by PO1 Leo Scott made May 24 at 2019 7:48 AM

2019-05-24T07:48:48-04:00

I don't know about protocol but yours made sense to me and is what I would have said.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2019 9:33 PM

2019-06-02T21:33:34-04:00

Improper to address an officer by his rank and last name? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. If you and I ever work together, you have my express permission to call me Mr. Walker or Chief Walker. That SFC that doesn't like it can come see me about it and I'll set him straight.

Response by PO3 Jake Lucid made Jun 6 at 2019 10:50 AM

2019-06-06T10:50:13-04:00

I was a quartermaster in the coast guard- customs and courtesies were our ship board main stay.
If addressing an officer alone one may use just the informal "sir" or "Madame", when addressing senior officers title is warranted - general admiral - but with a mid grade 0-4...there is nothing wrong or against any protocol ive ever been aware of to address an officer by rank and name in any formality. Its the back bone of custom and courtesies.
That said, from my stand point, you addressed an officer in a public mixed group of enlisted and commissioned personnel with proper respect and formality. You sir did nothing wrong....and the sergeant can pack sand.

Response by LTC Warren Miller made Oct 7 at 2019 5:46 AM

2019-10-07T05:46:17-04:00

Nah, you’re good. Been in the same boat on both ends, both as the subordinate trying to get the attention of the senior as well as doing the head swivel when being in the flock of “sirs.” Both immediately were followed by an apology and the name of the specific “sir” being addressed.

You did it right.

Response by Maj John Bell made Nov 1 at 2019 12:46 AM

2019-11-01T00:46:07-04:00

Army custom may be different than Marine custom, but under Marine custom you were correct. Really old school... Upon first engaging in a particular conversation use rank and name. Don't use sir or ma'am until subsequent utterances, and only if appropriate. And, use rank and name again upon taking your leave or upon the officers departure.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2020 9:34 AM

2020-02-23T09:34:59-05:00

"Sir" or "Major Smith" or Major Smith, Sir" all are correct. You must always consider context tone tener and audience.

Response by SGT Daniel Petitt made Sep 4 at 2021 12:27 AM

2021-09-04T00:27:21-04:00

I would say Capt Smith,sir

Response by Sgt Earl Neconie made Sep 4 at 2021 12:53 AM

2021-09-04T00:53:36-04:00

Marine Corps has always made a point to address all officers by rank and last name! Even our staff NCO’s are adamant about their specific ranks being included with their last names. (e.g. Staff Sergeant not Sergeant. Gunnery Sergeant or Gunny. etc.)