What advice can I give a friend who admits that he purposely fails his promotion?

2022-07-06T15:51:41-04:00

One of my good friends is up for promotion and I have noticed that he is always failing but just recently we sat down to catch up and I think he slipped by telling me that he I guess just purposely fails his promotion but I guess command hasn’t caught on, my question is what advice could I give him

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2022 4:10 PM

2022-07-06T16:10:17-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member We should all strive to push ourselves out of our comfort zones. Promotions in the military are something to look forward to along with the increased responsibility that comes with it. Promotions help us grow as individuals and enable us to tackle harder challenges that we will face in the military and civilian world.

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Jul 6 at 2022 5:04 PM

2022-07-06T17:04:53-04:00

I recommend one of two things:
1. That he start taking his military career seriously (and putting his best efforts toward getting promoted), or
2. That he update his resume and start looking for a civilian job.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2022 5:05 PM

2022-07-06T17:05:00-04:00

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member has given you excellent advice. Here are a few others who may have some helpful suggestions too.
Contact one of these three gentlemen... they are very knowledgeable in Military related questions/issues.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2022 6:18 PM

2022-07-06T18:18:36-04:00

I've seen a SM be SPC for a decade - just had no desire to be an NCO or lead. It's his career. At some point RCP will get him and he won't have to worry about the board any more. If he does wish to continue to servie then he will need to show some interest in passing the board and moving up.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2022 6:25 PM

2022-07-06T18:25:11-04:00

What advice can you give? Just simply tell your friend that they either better get their best Army Foot forward if they want to stay in the military or start getting their resume written up for the upcoming civilian life. I'm kind of surprised your friend hasn't been given a Bar to Continued Service. But, as soon as Command catches on, that Bar will be put in place.

Basically, you need to tell your friend to shit or get off the pot.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jul 6 at 2022 6:32 PM

2022-07-06T18:32:20-04:00

I guess I would have to ask.... Why?

Is it a question of competence (or perceived competence)? Responsibility? Time/commitment?

There are lots of valid reasons to turn down a promotion NOW. There are not a lot of valid reasons to turn down promotions long-term. For a young Soldier planning on an active duty military career, the number dwindles down to 0.

Here's the thing. He isn't fooling anyone. Either he is screwing up so badly and so consistently that those 1SGs now believe he is totally incompetent, or he is screwing up in such a manner that the 1SGs think he is competent but a jackass. Either way, he is demonstrating to those 1SGs that not only is he not ready to lead Soldiers, but he also is not ready for ANY responsibility - to include the responsibility of schools, TDY, moving out of the barracks, or even staying in the Army.

I have met a lot of senior NCOs who were not particularly bright. But very few who couldn't see through BS. And NEVER a group of them, like you see on a promotion board. And every single promotion board I sat on, we DEFINITELY discussed the candidates before and after their appearance.

Your friend is setting himself up for failure not just now, but for months to come. If not years.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2022 6:54 PM

2022-07-06T18:54:22-04:00

What LTC Kevin B. said!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2022 9:44 PM

2022-07-06T21:44:03-04:00

One of the things the military is great at is not challenging its people.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2022 12:59 AM

2022-07-07T00:59:49-04:00

SFC Casey O'Mally described it the best. I was once a specialist myself. Is this the first actual career or job outside of high school? He may have some personal issues or depression and maybe he needs to talk to the chaplain?
If he is a smart guy who just purposely wants to Foxtrot everything up, then he needs to do his best until his enlistment is up. Can you imagine getting in trouble and getting and other than honorable discharge? Maybe it won't come to that. I guess the Army resiliency training slides don't apply to him? Right before I retired, I worked with the assistant G3 in my one-star command and he wrote this up on the easel and I was very impressed by it! If he doesn't go by what was written in this picture, then he needs to get out of the army under honorable conditions.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2022 1:06 AM

2022-07-07T01:06:16-04:00

Eventually he will get barred or RCP out. Leadership isn't for everyone, the Army isn't for everyone.

Tell him to take advantage of what he's got and knock out all the civilian Ed or certs he can while he can.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Jul 7 at 2022 1:43 AM

2022-07-07T01:43:28-04:00

I Had Seen Many SMs Who Were Great At Their Jobs, And Great Soldiers,But Had No Skills As A Leader , Some Would Have Loved To Continue Serving But Were RCP Out,
If They Would Bring Back The SPC- 5 And Above Rank’s Then They Could Keep Great Soldiers Doing Their Jobs

Response by CPL Sheila Lewis made Jul 7 at 2022 10:18 AM

2022-07-07T10:18:29-04:00

this person doesn't want any advice.

Response by Amn Dale Preisach made Jul 9 at 2022 9:36 PM

2022-07-09T21:36:36-04:00

Either come to the Realization that if they always fail , the Service will Involuntary Separate them as the Service would consider the fails as proven evidence of inability to Continue/ dead wood. Then Discharge them. No organization likes to have people incapable of advancement / learn new skills needed for the organization. The Service is no different.

Response by Amn Dale Preisach made Jul 9 at 2022 9:41 PM

2022-07-09T21:41:17-04:00

They either level up , or they will be early out.
Then the Civilian Job openings will ALSO dry up. As the person has demonstrated either lack of ability ,or just lazy.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jul 10 at 2022 12:10 AM

2022-07-10T00:10:43-04:00

If your friend doesn’t want to promote that’s their choice. You can ask why and try to help but ultimately it’s their choice. They aren’t the first to do something foolish like this. I’m sure the command has noticed the trend. It’s not hard to miss when somebody purposefully shoots themselves in the foot

Response by SGT Richard Hanson SSP/CGS made Jul 10 at 2022 11:21 AM

2022-07-10T11:21:54-04:00

So far everyone has taken the tack that he is unhappy with what he is doing, and he is just killing time. Perhaps he is delighted with what he is doing and don't want to give it up. What is his MOS, if it isn't kitchen grease sump cleaner he may be afraid that if he is promoted he will end up in a job that he doesn't like

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2022 11:29 AM

2022-07-10T11:29:43-04:00

Eventually he will hit the up or out ceiling: Retention Control Point. Although RCPs have recently been modified, in order to have hopes of retiring he needs to make SSG in order to make it to 20 years, as SGT faces RCP at 14 years.
In my experience, some soldiers just don't feel comfortable taking on higher levels of responsibility. Particularly where they have to direct others. They like what they are doing where they are, and want to keep things as is. If that is the case, as he gets near RCP he should follow advice already posted about readying himself for another career path.

If you think he may be subconsciously failing, or failing unintentionally because of fear, then help him get to a mental health counselor or Chaplain.

If he gets out before retirement because of non-promotion, thank him for his service and encourage him to see Veterans Affairs for further assistance.

Response by CPL David Widding made Jul 10 at 2022 8:50 PM

2022-07-10T20:50:54-04:00

Use to call it Retired On Active Duty some people reach a rank that gives the freedom but minimal responsibility and just want to hang out until they have their time in

Response by LTC George Morgan made Jul 10 at 2022 8:51 PM

2022-07-10T20:51:41-04:00

Look at it this way PVT. How many years do you plan to stay in the Army?
20 years, so I get out with a pension Sir.
And what will you do in civvie street?
Veterans are always in demand Sir.
So, let's say you actually, stumble up to the exalted level of SPC, what then?
I can say I was an NCO Sir.
So, you have 20, and MSgt, has 12, you're both applying for the same job, what happens?
Were both NCOs, but I've got 20, and he's only got 12. So, I get the job, Sir.
No soldier, he gets the job, his demeanor, and his presence displays his superiority, and if you don't switch on and tune in, you won't be allowed to make 20, you'll be out on your ear, looking for a paper round. So, either get in the game or get out now. No deployed soldier wants you watching his back in the field. Your discharge papers are in this envelope. You have a week to decide. Do your job or sign.

Response by SMSgt Bob W. made Jul 10 at 2022 10:45 PM

2022-07-10T22:45:28-04:00

What does he want out of the military? Was it to only service his country and get out?
Some people don't want responsibility and want to do the job and be left alone. Yes, the military isn't that type of job; however, the services may be better off not promotion people until they are ready. How many young, immature idiots have you worked for? Age, maturity, and self-image plays a role in wanting to move up the ladder.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Jul 11 at 2022 12:17 PM

2022-07-11T12:17:34-04:00

There is one question that might need an answer.

Why?

Response by PO2 Joan MacNeill made Jul 11 at 2022 7:05 PM

2022-07-11T19:05:53-04:00

Ya gotta be there to comment. He may be dumb, or smarter than you think. One of the advantages of the military life I recognized, is that within limits, you can select how responsible you need to be, depending on several factors. You can be comfortable being a little fish, if that suits your needs. I was able to turn down a promotion at just the right time, for excellent reasons in my case. Still approve the decision. Maybe he felt he needed to wait for greater maturity before advancing, or just didn't feel up to the challenge (think: Peter Principle). In that case, if he really was capable, a little encouragement could go a ways.

I had to make a similar decision during my civilian career, in my particular circumstances. Also was best for me.