AIT Platoon Sergeants can get waivered for PULHES. What message does this send to our new recruits?

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 00:27:25 -0400

http://www.ncosupport.com/special-assignments/army-ait-platoon-sergeant.html

Advanced individual training PSG candidates must meet the following prerequisites:(1) PULHES 111221; however, some conditions may be allowed via waiver; meet body composition requirements

Response by CW2 Stephen Pate made Jun 29 at 2015 12:30 AM

CW2 Stephen Pate — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 00:30:39 -0400

I don't remember that waiver but I didn't have that problem. I don't think it should be authorized. The new troops see it, believe me they see it.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 29 at 2015 12:34 AM

COL Charles Williams — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 00:34:03 -0400

MSG Private RallyPoint Member .... I guess trainees and Drills Sergeants can be over weight too...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 12:37 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 00:37:41 -0400

I'm not so sure ABCP can be waved. The text reads:

"1) PULHES 111221; however, some conditions may be allowed via waiver; meet body
composition requirements in AR 600–9; and be able to pass the APFT (no substitution of events)."

I read that as certain profiles / PULHES can be waivered. In a seperate phrase, they must meet 600-9 & APFT requirements.
I could be wrong though.

The AIT PSG often has a big role in shaping young Soldiers, being overweight would send a strange and confusing standard... Double standard. I thought unless medically specified, everyone follows 600-9 requirements.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 12:57 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 00:57:32 -0400

PULHES generally refers to injuries or deformities, as far as I can tell. I'd say that sends a message that you can be useful even if you have a physical limitation.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 1:11 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 01:11:34 -0400

What sucks is I meet the PULHES of 112111, but I have a perm profile where I have an alt aerobic event. Id jump at this chance but sucks to be me.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 8:47 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 08:47:47 -0400

I think that as with all things, whether or not a Soldier would make a good AIT PSG is based upon more than their physical capabilities. Not all MOSs are the same, so I can see an allowance being made if in the judgment of a competent authority the Soldier could meet the expectations of that duty.
If I read into the question a bit, what I assume that MSG Private RallyPoint Member is getting at is curtailing the possibility that Soldiers who fail to meet the standard are not put in charge of impressionable new troops, especially as a means to "hide" from the consequences by going to TRADOC. In this, I couldn't agree more. Only our best should lead our young men and women in IET. But I think that it is very possible that the best person for the job might be a Soldier who was wounded and lost a hand or leg. If they can keep up, who better to be a part of the institutional Army than a Soldier who can inspire?

Response by Jordan Gaudard made Jun 29 at 2015 11:26 AM

Jordan Gaudard — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 11:26:30 -0400

Maybe I am lost in the sauce, but isn't that HE for Hearing and Eyes, and it doesn't say what can be waivered. Maybe for S, but you do behavior health evaluations. I was waivered for TIG and not having ALC. I know there are issues filling slots.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2015 12:36 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 12:36:39 -0400

Drill Sergeants & AIT Platoon Sergeants are recruits first impression of what leadership looks like. Those positions should be filled with NCOs that can do the same tasks they are requiring of the recruits in training. To do otherwise lowers the standards before they even get out of the school house and sets the first unit of assignment up for an unnecessary challenge. There are plenty of instructor slots, which do not have the same level of physical expectations, for those that want a specialty assignment.

Like 1SG Healy said, TRADOC should not be a place for an NCO to hide that does not meet standards or that doesn't want to be in a line unit. However, a waiver would be appropriate for someone that meets standards but that has a minor limitation due to combat injuries, etc.

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made Jun 29 at 2015 6:38 PM

SFC Walt Littleton — Mon, 29 Jun 2015 18:38:25 -0400

BEST JOB I EVER HAD!!!- see summary at the end!!!

Why PULSHES WERE IMPORTANT?

Day and a life of an AIT PLATOON SERGEANT!!!

THEIR UNIFORM
a. Starched BDU's
b. New shined pistol belt
c. Highly shined old steel Pot Helmet Liners (highly shined and waxed to a high sheen) and the schools unit patch mounted on each side.

Note: We accomplished all of this with no extra pay whatsoever. Hours were 0345-2000. We worked 6 days a week with one 24 hour shift of CQ duty and an extra 24 hour shift if it was your weekend for CQ.

DRILL SERGEANTS???
a. Two drills per platoon which is 10 per unit and an extra senior drill. PSG one per platoon and a floater with 5 total.

b. Full drill pay.

c. PSG had to train the drills to replace them. Even though they were drawing drill pay for two weeks to two months depending how many drills filtered in.

d. Over half of the drills assigned could not perform to standards at daily PT so the PSG were held over until the drill could perform to the standard of young trainees APFT 18 year olds.

I was an AIT Platoon Sergeant for school bound recruits 85-87. In those times if you weren't fully mission ready you were pulled out of being in that position. They became detail supervisors, barracks repair but not as we used to say Pushing Troops.

I was Signal and our school is at Ft Gordon, Ga. Here is how we were selected to either be assigned as Classroom Instructors or you were assigned to the school brigade as a line Platoon Sergeant. I was the last platoon sergeant to be replaced by the drills.

PLATOON SERGEANT-THIS ASSIGNMENT WAS BASED ON AIT BEING AN EXTENTION OF BASIC TRAINING- They were treated exactly how Drills did it in basic. We were Signal NCO's however, everything we did was monitored through NCO's assigned FROM TRADOC to monitor US and test the trainees. Trainees on day 2 are given a PT test performed by TRADOC. If one failed the PSG was required to retrain and unit tested throughout the school cycle and tested again by TRADOC at the end of the cycle so they were fully qualified by APFT and completion of standards for their MOS.

1. MILPO would screen all NCO's in processing the post. They screened by leadership, pulshes and type of assignments.

2. If you were chosen you were set up for an interview with the Brigade CSM. He was tough as nails, take no prisoners and dedication beyond belief.

3. Assigned to a unit. Units were set up in 4 platoons, 5 platoon sergeants (PSG). That's one sergeant for each platoon. Since there is only 5 platoon sergeants per company we were required to pull CQ 24 hours of duty every 5 to 6 days. At night or weekends even though you were off you were still responsible for your trainees if they got out of hand you would be called in.

4. Work starts for PSG's at 0330 and troop wake up was 0400 in formation heading to the parade/PT field and posted in front of your company PT stand by 0430. Yup CSM was walking the brigade and walked the field to insure we were on time and performing to standards. He would never interfere but you got called to his office for a butt chewing or if bad enough you got paper.

5. PSG were required to train to standards so the PLS had to train to standard levels of an 18 year old trainee. I was a SSG AND 31 and most of us were 30-40 years old.

6. PT complete back to barracks for (sh&t, shower,shave) clean barracks March company to chow hall. Move all outside so the clean up details could go in and final touch and prepare for the DAILY FIRST INSPECTION. CO inspection every week and Brigade CSM inspection Quarterly.

7. Back to barracks in formation. Check boots, haircuts, uniforms and insure pistol belts with rolled poncho and full canteen were worn properly straight and no sagging. They were checked at school by the Istructors who were training them. If there were any problems it went with a phone call to Brigade and stuff rolls down hill. Two PSG would march them to class and the students had to be seated in class ready to learn by 0800. We marched them to school which was about 2 miles each way. By then the PSG was soaked in sweat (GA) heat. We would walk back to the co.

8. Back to barracks stripped our uniforms repolished our boots, and inspected and corrected any cleanup issues to insure that when 1SGT inspected the barracks was ready. Then you had to repair or record and tag any facility items that needed to be fixed. If it couldn't be fixed by PSG we had to report it to facility maintenance tag and record the work order number. By this time we had to hitch rides back to the classrooms to march the the trainees to the chow hall for lunch and back to the classroom and you better not be late.

9. Afternoons were spent writing up counseling statements corrective actions and correcting any problems the 1SG found during their walk through.

10. 1630 back at classrooms to march students back to the barracks, mail call and march them to chow hall for supper.

11. After supper there were PSG meetings with their trainees, go over difficiencied found in inspections and counselings.

12. Due to having night students sometimes we had to assign a PSG TO HANDLE THESE TRAINEES BECAUSE THEY WERE ON A COMPLETE NIGHT SHIFT.

13. Cycles were 8 weeks long with student graduation on the last Friday of the 8 week cycle. THE NEXT DAY ON SATURDAY WE RECIEVED ANOTHER FULL COMPANY OF NEW RECRUITS ARRIVED (25o give or take new teainees.

Summary- Hardest job I ever had in the military!!

Spent 2 1/2 years in this position and here are my stats!!!! Yes I'm PROUD

TEN QUARTERS!
a. PSG OF THE QUARTER-- 6 Times.

b. Roughly 50 trainees every 8 weeks for over 2 years I never lost one trainee in my platoon. All graduated from AIT AND APFT with no failures!!

Nothing is more rewarding that see these soldiers come in and you can see the pride and motivation they display when they walk across the stage to graduate. Most this was their first achievement.

I NEVER RAISED MY VOICE EXCEPT WHEN CALLING CADENCE!!! TREAT WITH DIGNITY AND REDPECT AND DINT ALLOW SUBSTANDERD PERFORMANCE. IT TAKES AN FULLY QUALIFIED NCO TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 2:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 14:18:01 -0400

They aren't Drill Sergeants, so who cares? If I could volunteer and retire on the trail I'd be on the first thing smoking, unfortunately I had my knee rebuilt and can never get past a P2. What's funny is that I am still worldwide deployable (I've gone 4 times), which means I'm good enough to do my job downrange at any given time, the thing that we're always training to do, yet I cannot wear a badge and a specialized headgear and tell someone who is just learning how to run to run faster, since I have an alternate cardio event and I don't get past 60 points in that event. Unfair in my eyes, but hey, that's the breaks. Perhaps this is a compromise. If its that much of an issue then put Drills back in AIT (which they wont do because additional SDAP is expensive in the eyes of budget cuts).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 2:22 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 14:22:51 -0400

My comments posted twice.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2015 5:02 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 17:02:41 -0400

I will be absolutely candid, In My opinion anyone that can't take a 3 event APFT should either be put into MEB (<15 yrs TIS) or retired (>15 yrs TIS).

Especially not being able to do the run. The ability to move your own body weight, another ~45lbs of kit, over unpredictable distances is a non negotiable skill all Soldiers should have.

I say this knowing some great NCOs that are physically restricted. But if we are to be a truly expeditionary, adaptable, and flexible army then we must only retain the best qualified people.

If you have to get a waiver, you are not the best qualified.

Response by SFC Dave H. made Jun 30 at 2015 10:03 PM

SFC Dave H. — Tue, 30 Jun 2015 22:03:32 -0400

It demonstrates that the world is not "perfect" . The NCO has skill sets and experience that are still valuable to TRADOC. Just because the PLT SGT can't "run" does not mean he can not perform in all other areas. Troops learn that the Army is a career, and if you develop certain amount of experience and training knowledge having a PULHES of 2 will not stall your career.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 6:37 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jul 2015 06:37:17 -0400

The message would be mixed. There are those who still believe that the best of the best should have these positions and therefore they have a PULHES of 1's across the board. The other group would argue that unless you have a less than 1 in PULHES in an area that would prove to be detrimental to the welfare of the troops and the leader applying for the job, let the person go for it. Obviously those with head injuries or mental instability should be looked at with a critical eye before allowing into these assignments but the majority would do well provided the records indicate they deserve that chance. The message ultimately indicates that everyone is able to get that special duty assignment despite injuries.

EKM

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Jul 2 at 2015 11:10 PM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 23:10:14 -0400

It sends the message that we are human.
It sends the message that chances are, your PULHES is a reflection of your service and the Army will still give you leadership positions if the Army broke you.
It's a great message.

Response by SGT Ray Grooms made Jul 26 at 2015 10:41 PM

SGT Ray Grooms — Sun, 26 Jul 2015 22:41:05 -0400

I think it sends the message that the Army takes care of it's own. What if someone has a combat injury that gives them a PULHES of less than 111221? As long as they are not overweight and can serve as a good role model what difference does it make?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 8:31 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:31:11 -0400

If you have a temporary or permanent profile you are not accepted into the course. You take three APFTs in the course with the last one being a requirement of 70% in each event. The course is physically demanding with doing PRT everyday some times twice a day two Foot Marches, obstacle course, running STX lanes and much more. When people come here with prior injuries that injury usually flares back up and they get removed from the course. If you get a profile 72 hrs or more during the you go home. If a AITPSG gets permenant profile on AITPSG duty they should be removed from the program because of the physical demand of the job. I understand that NCOs can perform with injuries however this is not one of those jobs because you are up in front of Soldiers and you should be doing everything that you require them to do. Unfortunately some Commands keep the AITPSGs on duty because of shortages. As far as waivers the only thing we have seen was a shaving profile however we still require them to shave especially if their DA Photo have them with a clean shave. If not unfortunately they go home. So from the Academy stand point we do not accept anyone that cannot perform these duties physically as well as mentally.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 13 at 2015 1:55 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 13:55:47 -0400

That knowledge and wisdom are more important than push-ups?

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 24 at 2016 11:35 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 24 Nov 2016 11:35:20 -0500

That competence, knowledge, education and experience are more important than run times?