Altered Grooming standards while deployed

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 08:57:10 -0400

Thoughts?! I can understand if you are on KAF or BAF but the smaller FOBs and surrounding areas should have altered grooming standards at the very least for combat MOS's. I almost wish I was like some of these young guys who can go 4 days w out shaving and not be able to tell haha I guess I'll just have to get my long tab if I want to grow my beard.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Oct 25 at 2014 9:09 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 09:09:44 -0400

Health, standards, discipline and less places for sand mites to hide.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 11:44 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 11:44:54 -0400

I've encountered a lot of animosity surrounding 'grooming' in my short Army experience. My conclusions are probably biased, but I feel there are a small few who require (yes, require) the option of utilizing relaxed grooming standards in order to more effectively operate or accomplish the mission. Anyone wearing ACUs (read uniform), in my honest opinion, should not need to dip into that toolbox of altered/relaxed grooming - it doesn't really provide a net positive for the accomplishment of the mission.

In my experience the relaxed grooming has been applied in order to meet the needs of females. Seems kind of a weird conclusion, but think a little bit about it. Command policies apply equally to all soldiers under said command. Many (from the business world at least) would find a female in business professional attire sporting a tight bun weird. Yes, relaxed 'grooming' gives females the ability to wear their hair down or 'stylish'.

Again, most in the force don't need this ability, but there are a small few who benefit from such a policy. (And it has nothing to do with 'looking cool', even though that's usually an unintended side effect.)

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Oct 26 at 2014 1:28 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:28:23 -0400

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 1:40 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:40:04 -0400

I don't understand your statement. Are you complaining about the grooming standards, or commenting that you hate your face?

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Oct 26 at 2014 2:22 PM

SSG Pete Fleming — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 14:22:30 -0400

When we arrived in Baghdad and finally found a home, a deserted bombed out factory with no utilities or water (except one spicket/spigot in the middle of the yard/field), we made do. This was before KBR and the other contractors had arrived to build everything. I/we acquired a few things and my squad 'remodeled' a small bathroom with a urinal (a plastic pipe and a cut water bottle duct taped and jammed in the sewer line) a shower (a Wal-Mart camp shower hung over a bathtub draining into what was the 'toilet') a sink (a five gallon jug hung over 'sink' with a vehicle mirror attached to the wall), a scrap piece of canvas for the door and an acquired light (hard wired into the generator lights).

We would heat our water in the sun dump it in the shower or replace the 'sink' water. The spigot was the local 'water cooler' where everyone did their laundry in buckets, got water for their non-drinking needs... We were shaved, clean, and had proper haircuts... so no there should be no changes to the standards. However there should be some understanding that everyone can look all GQ and perfect but there is no excuse for not maintaining proper hygiene and appearance.

And as an added point, I spent almost everyday out of the wire, off post, roaming the streets of Baghdad while 'working' with the Iraqi police, transporting prisoners, patrolling, and conducting escorts... in 998's and the old 'turtle shells' (non-up-armored variety).

Response by SSG Keven Lahde made Oct 27 at 2014 12:52 PM

SSG Keven Lahde — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 12:52:56 -0400

Shaving while being deployed shouldn't be a big deal. Your in uniform and on Active Duty, should be a no brainier. Unless you have the Long Tab, no questions asked.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Oct 28 at 2014 10:59 AM

SSG Tim Everett — Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:59:29 -0400

I'm all for rules and regulations, and generally I followed them.

I'm now a civilian and I believe that facial kevlar is a force multiplier.

Response by SFC Peter Cyprian made Dec 3 at 2014 12:21 AM

SFC Peter Cyprian — Wed, 03 Dec 2014 00:21:04 -0500

They are most likely SOF. The relaxed grooming standards for most SOF teams is not about being "different" or "cool"; it is about the safety of the team. A shaved face in a country of bearded men stands out....badly. The SOF teams work out of safe houses that are not always close to friendly forces. They need to be able to move around without attracting too much attention.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 10:35 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 22:35:43 -0500

I too, think we should have seriously relaxed grooming standards when forward deployed. What is the saying? When in Rome....? In the Middle East we should adopt standards like the locals, it is called mirroring. This would no doubt break down communication barriers....lots of reasons to do it. Blend with locals, more time for real work. And it looks very Celtic...in line with my roots.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 14 at 2014 4:08 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Dec 2014 04:08:06 -0500

Upholding standards will always be at the top of the priority list, however in a deployed environment with people needing to be worried about protecting the guy on their left and right, I find it funny when someone talks about jumping on this guy or that for how he looks. It may just be me but a guy coming in from outside the wire might find it hard to take a guy from a slightly air conditioned buildings words seriously in regards to shaving.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2016 10:48 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 10:48:03 -0400

If you want relaxed grooming standards while deployed to an area of potential CBRNE threat...simple - go to one of the numerous selections that each branch offers and become a part of the brotherhood.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2016 7:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 Apr 2016 07:59:35 -0400

I remember getting my ass chewed during my first deployment for not shaving and having a haircut. That's what it was, an ass chewing. In one ear and out the other. Sorry that I was on the road and didn't always have the time or the means to shave or get a haircut. Watch the show Generation Kill and it will crack you up!!!!! When shaving and haircuts become more important than the mission we have a serious problem.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Apr 27 at 2016 6:43 PM

SFC Marcus Belt — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:43:46 -0400

The term is "operational grooming standards". Mission first, last and always.

Agnostic of every other factor: do the grooming standards help, harm or are neutral to accomplishing a given mission?

I hate beards, but in Afghanistan I had to grow one (such as it was). It itched. A lot. I was clean shaven even as a civilian.

Worry about how to best accomplish the mission and then all the other decisions that follow fall into place.

Response by SPC Steven Schoenhut made Apr 30 at 2016 2:15 AM

SPC Steven Schoenhut — Sat, 30 Apr 2016 02:15:53 -0400

In 2004 I was in Iraq and near the end of my tour I was put on a mountain top as the only medic. I had approx. 16 Commo guys, one squad security and 2 cooks with us so all in all maybe 30 something people... We were remote and didn't follow all of 670-1. Most were lucky to shower once a week out of water bottles, we had to burn out our own latrines and we had supplies dropped every 4 days or so. We only had to shave when the command came to visit. The point is the standards can relax for certain circumstances and the world will not end... For people on FOBs with running water not having to burn your own waste, shaving is not a big deal... if it is for you then join SF or get out!!!

Response by SGT Luke Wooster made Sep 18 at 2017 11:17 AM

SGT Luke Wooster — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 11:17:11 -0400

Never undercut morale. Yes the CSM checking your socks to see if they are white is annoying yet something may metastasize into a bigger problem.

Response by SFC David Xanten made Sep 18 at 2017 7:13 PM

SFC David Xanten — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 19:13:55 -0400

Maintaining grooming standards is not an option. As long as you're in the Army you should be required to maintain them There are many reasons but the main one is to maintain discipline and without that, we have no Army, only a bunch of people with guns that have on leadership.

Response by SSG James Behnke made Sep 18 at 2017 11:02 PM

SSG James Behnke — Mon, 18 Sep 2017 23:02:05 -0400

Pick and choose your battles. While I agree there are many times relaxed grooming standards seems like it would be in the best interests of many while downrange, standards are standards. If the Command issues that order, you're good to go. If not, drink water and drive on. IMO discipline is what separates and defines the U.S. Army from the rest of the world's military. Believe it or not we are an elite combat power, and I for one am extremely proud of that. Discipline is what sets us apart. This is another facet of that.

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 7 at 2017 12:03 PM

SPC David Willis — Thu, 07 Dec 2017 12:03:26 -0500

I did one deployment on a platoon sized COP with out running water for the duration. Obviously everything was more difficult. Only one guy had hair clippers and they were magically destroyed it would have made zero sense to risk a convoy to the FOB and risk lives for something like a hair cut. Lots of electric razor 5 o clock shadows. Lots of blouses off during the summer. On the flip side I did a tour on a FOB and that was basically a garrison environment.

Response by SFC William Ewing made Sep 5 at 2019 12:18 AM

SFC William Ewing — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 00:18:46 -0400

When General Patton could require his troops to maintain shaves throughout his army in North Africa and going across France and Germany WWII.
With the primitive conditions of the time.
There is no reason for a lower standard now.
But he required Rancho be visible on the sleeve and the non camo unit patch to scare into surrendering to his units. If they knew third Army was attacking no Ashanti surrender

Response by SFC William Ewing made Sep 5 at 2019 12:20 AM

SFC William Ewing — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 00:20:46 -0400

Spell check Ashanti should be shame on

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 5 at 2019 10:17 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 10:17:16 -0400

Even the Special Forces Regiment makes guys shave on plenty of deployments. There is no carte Blanche relaxed grooming standards. We had guys fight multiple wars in worse conditions that didn’t bitch about weak sauce like this.

Response by SP5 Gary Smith made Sep 5 at 2019 2:22 PM

SP5 Gary Smith — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:22:08 -0400

Boys...you are also on a PR mission for hearts and minds. Gotta look like choir boys. Don’t like it? Get your TS card punched by the chaplain.

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Sep 5 at 2019 2:34 PM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:34:38 -0400

Shave/bathe when you can. You joined the Army, they didn't joined you!

Response by CPL Shayne Sanchez made Sep 5 at 2019 2:55 PM

CPL Shayne Sanchez — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 14:55:56 -0400

I feel it depends on mission tempo. If your in the rear with the gear and have access to what's needed to keep grooming standards within regs do it. If your down range shootin and scootin then get to it when you can get to it.

Response by PO2 Tony Divito made Sep 5 at 2019 3:44 PM

PO2 Tony Divito — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 15:44:30 -0400

Grew a beard in the Navy. I worked the nightcheck fixing planes. In after 9 pm leave before 7am. No one gave a crap as long as the work got done.

Response by SPC Kyle Salmon made Sep 5 at 2019 5:58 PM

SPC Kyle Salmon — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 17:58:07 -0400

I was on mission that was supposed to be 2-3 days and ended up being 12. Around day 5-6 the Top came up to my team and said we had to shave because CSM was around. Our response was we didn’t have any razors (we really didn’t)...sure enough they had some dropped in on supply and we were shaving that afternoon lmao

Response by SSG Paul Wilson made Sep 6 at 2019 4:18 PM

SSG Paul Wilson — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 16:18:07 -0400

I know when I was on active duty it was the mission took top priority but they also hygiene was part of the mission.

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Sep 7 at 2019 7:10 AM

MAJ Steve Daugherty — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 07:10:42 -0400

I always did my best when in the field as a bath and fresh shave sure felt good after 3 days of sleeping in the mud. I used my steel pot on many occasions to clean back in the day before the modern storm trooper helmets

Response by SFC Quinn Chastant made Sep 7 at 2019 10:19 AM

SFC Quinn Chastant — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 10:19:01 -0400

Depending upon condions, mission, time, and place; let the lowest level of Command and Control set the parameters of cleanliness and grooming. If water is a critical asset at a combat outpost, it should be reserved for essential functions. Sadly, Rear Eschelon Types ( ie: fobbits) may not comprehend what happens outside the wire and on remote locations. While personal hygiene is critical, limited water supply, and questionable water safety and quality may dictate water is conserved for drinking and food prep primarily. Shaving looses priority when placed into that context. In a theater where the enemy combatants wear beards and would endanger themselves with chemical warfare, perhaps several days beard growth is not a bad thing. However, in other locations where chemical weapons use is a known probability, ie: Syria, then yes shaving becomes more critical. Ultimately, the lowest level of Command should be allowed to assess the risk and set minimum grooming requirements and standards when forward deployed,

Response by SSgt Mark Victor made Sep 7 at 2019 10:21 AM

SSgt Mark Victor — Sat, 07 Sep 2019 10:21:58 -0400

The US Navy just fired a few senior leaders and their Special Warfare commander just ordered the SEALs to return to Navy grooming and uniform standards.
On one hand: uniform and grooming standards are a) conformance and discipline tools that enable for indindividual service members to set themselves aside for the good of the group, b) in certain ways, these standards help sustain good health and hygiene to sustain the fight and c) our citizens expect that from the country's warfighters and ambassadors.
On the other hand, and a tool to enable for a balanced approach, altered grooming standards enable for a) prudent use of water and resources (do we shave or hydrate?) ,b) in specific cases, have helped service members to form stronger bonds with host nation forces, and c) when the priority is life, and you are fighting to defend, protect, and destroy, then grooming standards go out the window, temporarily, until the priority changes.
Look at old WWII photos and footage. Look at Korean War and Vietnam War photos and footage as well.
Balance. Mission priorities. Reasonable and common-sensed decision making. Clean up when you can for health and hygiene. If you can't for now, then do it when you can.

Response by SPC Stephen Walsh made Dec 22 at 2019 6:10 PM

SPC Stephen Walsh — Sun, 22 Dec 2019 18:10:09 -0500

In 65 I was attached to the 1st Mountain Div of the Bundeswehr. Transferred to a Garrison in Italy on reporting in a brand new buck Sgt got on me about a haircut. I explained that in Germany short hair was the sign of a convict. The CO gave me a hard look and next day I was assigned to an Italian Unit. Never did get a haircut.

Response by SN Mike Duffy made Mar 15 at 2020 6:29 PM

SN Mike Duffy — Sun, 15 Mar 2020 18:29:34 -0400

We had some hippie looking guys come alongside for an hour in the Persian Gulf in '88. Showered, got in line at the ships "store" for skivvies, smokes, and Snickers. Ensign Goldstein told them to shave and get haircuts and report back to him before shopping. They started laughing after a proper yes sir! Then the XO showed up and stopped the nonsense.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Mar 27 at 2022 8:10 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sun, 27 Mar 2022 20:10:13 -0400

Haircuts and such are imo bullshit, back in the day it was the style, Brit NCOs were required to have a stash. The only reason I could give would be a gas mask, other than that there’s no impact on ones fighting abilities. Gurkhas are famous for their bravery in battle.