Am I a bad NCO or just inexperienced?

2018-03-15T22:19:55-04:00

My peers don't inforce standards and I know every person in a leadership role has talked about how undisciplined the soldier's are. That leaves me to be the "bulldog". I hate to be, but at times I feel like I have to. Now all the soldier's view me as a bitch because of this and I speak sternly (viewed by some as condescending) when verbally counseling. Mind you, I've lost my cool once.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 15 at 2018 10:28 PM

2018-03-15T22:28:43-04:00

Given as how you're a Specialist, I'm going to go with Option C, you're not an NCO at all. Having said that, seeing as how you're stepping up to the plate the way you are, I'd say you're a pretty good Soldier though.

NOTE: This was before the CPL update ;o)

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Mar 15 at 2018 10:49 PM

2018-03-15T22:49:22-04:00

You are looking for excuses to fail. Get it right or let someone else do it

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 11:00 PM

2018-03-15T23:00:50-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member As a Corporal and Sergeant, I was also a bulldog. When verbally counseling, try to leave emotions out of it, and stick to the facts. Try to always maintain your decorum. it takes time to learn how to be become an excellent NCO. You will make mistakes, and that is ok, just do not repeat the same mistakes.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 11:26 PM

2018-03-15T23:26:43-04:00

I would say that the discipline of soldiers varies from unit to unit. I wouldn't identify you as such a vagority. Now moving onto your style of leadership. I am glad you are noticing the issues of those lower enlisted in your unit. Now you have to develop a plan to address that. The real question is how to you guide soldiers to want to conduct themselves in a professional manner. This is the challenge you will face day in and day out. I would try to keep you cool. I wouldn't get upset at your soldiers but I would let them know that they aren't living up to the Army Values. If they don't care then you will have your work cut out for you. You should have the support of your unit's 1SG when doing this. If you are the only one that is pushing soldiers then you might be viewed as a spotlight. I would work on soldier development. Try to develop a SGTs Time program that pushes your soldiers to realize what the standards are. You need them to realize they are not conducting themselves in a professional manner. I hope this helps.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 15 at 2018 11:28 PM

2018-03-15T23:28:49-04:00

Americans don't like to be told what to do. For those that signed up... too damn bad. Now that you are a Corporal you shouldn't care if the soldiers think you are a bitch. They are no longer your peers or friends. Cordial is OK, but you should not ever be involved in "friendly" social engagement with them. If they fall under your authority by billet or assignment , permanent or temporary; you issue orders, they comply... period. What you are going through now, almost all new NCO's go through. If when it's all over and done, would it be so bad if your tombstone said "Man that bitch was tough, but she was fair."

You need to have a long serious discussion with your senior NCO's and SNCO's. Explain what you are experiencing. Make sure that your chain of command knows you want to solve the problem yourself. You just want to know where the edge of the performance envelope is. Make sure you have a pretty firm understanding of where the command stands on discipline and will back the level of discipline you implement. Furthermore, make sure that if you are defied, the command will back you up with pretty extreme measure. If you ever bluff or make a play that your seniors won't back, you're dead in the water.

What I am going to say to you now is not very politically correct, none-the-less it is true. Most Women leaders, do not do "pissed off" well. They cannot do R. Lee Ermey (the Marine pictured above). Most men, particularly junior soldiers find an angry senior female funny. What throws them off balance is cool, calm, deliberate, unemotional application of discipline. DO NOT LET THEM KNOW THEY GOT UNDER YOUR SKIN... EVER!!!!! The only time you should raise your voice is to be heard over background noise or if you need to get someone's attention to prevent injury or property damage. You may find that getting just inside their personal space and speaking in a quiet firm voice will also throw them off-balance and build your credibility. Never discipline when you are in an agitated state. If the situation will allow it, there's a lot to be said for "Come find me at the ______, when the rest of the unit is secured. If I am not there, wait for me." Once they are there have them stand by until you've done everything else you need to do before you secure for the day. Then deal with them.

In general... ask once. If you do not get immediate intelligent obedience after you ask, then tell. If you do not get immediate intelligent obedience after you tell, then discipline. Once you hit the discipline stage, make sure your disciplinary measure fits within the guidance you got earlier from your senior NCO's and SNCO's. Then implement the discipline...do not be dissuaded.

Finally, it is better to discipline one time harshly than one hundred times lightly.

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made Mar 15 at 2018 11:30 PM

2018-03-15T23:30:23-04:00

Better to be disliked than to be walked all over by a bunch of lazy Joes, especially if you know you're doing the right things.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2018 11:56 PM

2018-03-15T23:56:46-04:00

Yes.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 12:16 AM

2018-03-16T00:16:58-04:00

Welcome to the Army! You want to be a leader? Get used to being looked at as a bitch. Before I married my wife she was a charge nurse at a hospital I was admitted into. The JR enlisted would talk to me about how they didn’t like the officers, especially the night charge nurse. They talked to me cause we were all JR enlisted and I was there for so long. As I listened to them complain it stuck me that it was because she was making them do their job. She had always been the enforcer, at home and at work. I guess it helps that she’s a yankee from Boston. So learn to deal with it if you plan to stay in. And congratulations- you have our respect.

Response by CW3 Jeff Held made Mar 16 at 2018 12:54 AM

2018-03-16T00:54:19-04:00

You are charged with doing the right thing and you should never feel as if you need to compromise your lead, character, or integrity to get things done.

Sometimes you need to ‘rattle’ some heads but that should be a rare and seldom used approach.

Have a frank discussion and tell these folks that you, their CoC and the Army expects them to behave as soldiers and get their work done and to chip in and help others when they have ‘nothing to do’.

I hope your Sgt, Section Chief, and PSG are backing you.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Mar 16 at 2018 1:10 AM

2018-03-16T01:10:01-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member You will be a SGT before your peers because you are a leader. Leaders must have expectations of followers. Soldiers will only realize that you were their best leader after they work for someone else who is a wuss and won't hold everyone to the same standard. Then they will get upset when that leader is not fair and consistent like you were.
So keep doing what you are doing and it will be SGT, then SSG then SFC Thornberry.
Or
You can look at the Warrant or Officer side as well, we need leaders that have expectations and hold soldiers to standards.
God Speed in your pursuits!

Response by Cpl Tom Surdi made Mar 16 at 2018 2:04 AM

2018-03-16T02:04:49-04:00

I am going to be straight with you. Quit whining and do your job. You are not their friend, peer or their babysitter. Your job is to make sure they do their job to the absolute best of their ability. If they mouth off, put them in their place. But be mindful, if you bust their ass be fair, make the punishment fit the crime. You can be a "bitch" but be a fair "bitch!" Wear it with pride. Once they see that you are no pushover they will stop questioning you and instantly follow your orders.

Response by MSG Louis Alexander made Mar 16 at 2018 2:51 AM

2018-03-16T02:51:59-04:00

Sage, you’re on your way of becoming a great NCO. Soldier’s today is a very sensitive lot and when a hard charging individual steps up to the plate and takes charge even though they are of the same rank structure, they view that as a threat instead of a commodity. Now what do I mean as a commodity? Good question…Let me first point out when one individual takes enough interest in another to take time and point out their deficiencies and short-comings, then recommends an avenue to correct such fault, and those lacking in particular skills and or disciplines are in disagreement, it’s natural they would harbor some ingratitude and often resentment. They will classify you as a kiss ass, brown nosier…someone who only wishes to advance at their expense. That my dear Corporal is nothing more but envy. Now let’s take a few moments and discuss what makes a great NCO shall we…first, it takes a leader who cares for the general welfare of their troops. This welfare covers various areas from teaching, training, evaluating and rating the proficiency of those charged to them. It also covers their mental and physical well-being. There’s and old saying; you can get more done with honey then you can from shyt. Give them a reason to believe and trust in you…Set an example for them to follow and challenge them along the way. Never ask them to do something that you, yourself are not capable of doing…for if they see you are unwilling, they too will be unwilling. Strive for excellence in everything you do. As a junior NCO you will learn as you go. My best advice is to listen, observe and make mental notes how superior NCO’s deal with the soldiers under their charge. Some tactics and techniques will not always workout the way you want them too, you just have to be able to adjust, adapt and overcome those barriers. Don’t give up! Always resonate a positive attitude and continue to build comradery among your peers and subordinates. Never try to be their friends, for this is a sign of weakness. Be the one who is the gray guy. Don’t only think outside of the box but think about the outside surrounding perimeters you’ll be surprised of how you can resolve situations. What it all boils down to Sage, is you’ll learn as you go. Just hang tough and you’re come out just fine. There’s a little saying I think NCO’s should adopt and it goes something like this: When it’s time to fight, you fight like you’re the third monkey on the ramp to Noah’s ark…and Brother, it’s startin’ to rain.” This could mean multiple things, it’s how you perceive it and in what way you may apply it in your military career. Good luck and keep charging forward.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 3:31 AM

2018-03-16T03:31:56-04:00

Every unit is different, but it sounds to me like you may have a culture issue. If other NCOs aren’t enforcing standards, then you as a CPL won’t be able to change that culture. This is definitely something you should run up through the NCO Support Channel. It’s not going to change over night, but if you’re persistent, you may be able to get the ball rolling. Good luck, CPL.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 3:40 AM

2018-03-16T03:40:59-04:00

Corporal sage Thornberry, Great topic. I commend you for challenging your self and analyzing your leadership style. The very fact that you are willing to call yourself out demonstrates you are willing to learn and a will be a positive source for change. We all need to learn. When I was in command, I always told the officers And NCOs that I worked with that I do not expect perfection. That have never learned anything by doing something right. It is our mistakes and failures that demonstrate to us what we need to learn and help us grow. Failure is our best teacher and although painful, growth is painful. The ability to ask for advice, analyzeYour behavior and leadership style and admit to failures and change will make you a great leader. You just have to be patient and keep working hard.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Mar 16 at 2018 7:28 AM

2018-03-16T07:28:52-04:00

Being a Jr. NCO has it's draw backs, but I commend you on your outlook and that your trying to bring order to chaos. Don't let the other S M's bring you down, but persist in your ways and bring order to your group.

Response by SGT David T. made Mar 16 at 2018 8:10 AM

2018-03-16T08:10:00-04:00

Well part of it is you are the worst possible rank to be in the army. I hated my time as a Corporal. I found that I was only a NCO when it was convenient regardless of what regs say. So you will have a harder time than a Sergeant will because you are still viewed as just an E-4.

You can enforce the standards without going all Full Metal Jacket on the troops. I found that earning their respect as a person and a leader instead of demanding it was more effective. I also reprimanded in private and praised in public. You will get more positive results if you treat people as professional adults even when they screw up. You have to make them want to work for you. If not, they will only do what they are told and nothing more.

Right, wrong or indifferent you are a NCO and have all of the authority that goes with it. Use it, but don't abuse it. Always keep your cool. Be dispassionate when dealing with issues and focus on the behaviors.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 8:23 AM

2018-03-16T08:23:31-04:00

Ok don't loose your cool, you loose credibility that way, be firm and honest. Be ready to back your self up as soldiers like to come back with Regs and stuff. Look up some SGMs and their leaderships strategies and youll be allright. Remember the NCO Creed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 8:43 AM

2018-03-16T08:43:02-04:00

Basing my opinion off of what you've said, the problem isn't you, it's everyone else. There's nothing wrong with being blunt or stern. If someone can't handle it they shouldn't have put themselves in position to get the talking to. Loosing your cool is going to happen. Everyone has their limits. If the situation called for it, then that's not your problem. If you really did overreact because you were having a bad day or whatever, take some time to cool off and go back, pull the person aside, and apologize for the way that you approached the situation. There's no shame in admitting that you were wrong for reacting the way you did. I've seen a LTC do it. He was already pissed off about something and flipped on the wrong person then came back later in the day and apologized.

Don't question or doubt yourself because other people are F'ed up.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 8:55 AM

2018-03-16T08:55:20-04:00

I won't steal the NCOs' and SNCOs' thunder here...they, not I, can give you the best advice.

What I will say, as someone who once learned a great deal from, and continues to have infinite respect for the NCO community, is this...leadership is often lonely. If we let everyone "do as they please", the "menial", but essential tasks wouldn't get done. Someone has to be the "bad guy", take charge, and ensure what needs to be done, gets done. This, along with the fact that they've done it all themselves before, is why non-commissioned officers "run" the Services.

From what I experienced, much of that involved "presence"...the best NCOs I served with were confident and consistent. About the best thing a shaky new "butter bar" (or "salty" O-3, making it up as he goes along) can hear is when one of these professionals says, "Good idea Sir". The second best is when they pulled him aside and said, "Sir, can I speak to you a second?" That's because a good NCO is not only a leader, but an example and a mentor, both up and down their COC.

I can't possibly know, but I presume they build that presence over time and hard experience. NCOs "know" because they've seen it, done it, and heard it all. The longer they're around, the more experience they get, and the better they (hopefully) become. Hang in there, because "we're" counting on you, and need you.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Mar 16 at 2018 10:14 AM

2018-03-16T10:14:12-04:00

You're a Corporal, Corporals are not nice. As long as your standards are "the standards" and not your pet peeves keep driving on.

Every unit has it's bulldog and that is a good thing. If the NCO who has told you that you are being condescending in counseling is reputable, then pay attention and work on your tone. If it's from the slackers then smile and do a self check. Condescension or copping a holier than thou attitude causes folks to not listen to your recommendations for improvement and will make you ineffective.

As far as loosing your cool goes, as long as you aren't swearing at folks or laying hands on them it's all part of 20. Not a good thing but not the end of the world either. Depending on the Soldier that may be what reaches them.

My 2 cents worth is to remember you want every Soldier to be a good troop, that means they meet the standards. Attack the issue, deficiency or action and not the person and then if you go off the rails it's against the deficiency and not a personal attack.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 10:36 AM

2018-03-16T10:36:34-04:00

A very simple piece of advice that has helped me through my career.

You get what you tolerate. What you allow is what will continue.

Response by SPC Matthew Tinder made Mar 16 at 2018 10:50 AM

2018-03-16T10:50:34-04:00

Front line leadership is about direct interaction. Losing your cool is not always a bad thing as it shows that you are serious about your position. People will always resent being told how to behave. The best leaders seem to show people the way instead of telling them where to go. Sorry for fragmenting but I'm at work.

Response by SGT(P) Michael H. made Mar 16 at 2018 10:51 AM

2018-03-16T10:51:07-04:00

I was a CPL for quite a few years. I understand your position being the "bulldog". That is a CPL's job. You don't receive the pay or respect an E5 or higher will, but you are a bonafide NCO, and as such are to have your lawful orders obeyed...period. Let them call you what they want. Rise above the pettiness, be who you need to be, and drive on. There are standards, and the unruly raised their hands to serve and live by those standards. They need to be reminded of that...their oath and service to it. You stand up for what is right, regardless of the situation in which you find yourself. You have the support of those of us who have literally been there, done that. We are here for you.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Mar 16 at 2018 10:53 AM

2018-03-16T10:53:15-04:00

It's not all that unusual for a strong female leader to be called a bitch--get used to it. You're apparently a first-line supervisor. This is where the action is. You are doing the right thing by making sure your Soldiers meet standards. Leadership above you should support, train, and mentor you. If they aren't, then the unit has bigger problems than you can fix.

There are a variety of counseling techniques. Using your rank and positional authority to direct compliance or UCMJ action is a valid technique in some cases. Sometimes it's not. As an officer I could effectively use this technique, but often didn't because it can ruin the opportunity for cohesive team building. Here's some thoughts:
-Always praise in public and criticize in private, Really. This is important and works.
-Pick your fights. Not every infraction of a possibly obscure directive or tradition requires immediate and forceful correction.
-Some people respond well to a more positive approach. Praise their positive performance. Then ask about the behavior needing correction. Have a real discussion where you actually listen to your subordinate. Work together on a solution.
-Some rules, regs, SOPs, etc., need to be changed because there's a better way to do some processes. Don't be afraid to ask questions about why your subordinates are doing work in a way other than that proscribed. If there's a positive change to be made, become their champion to get things "fixed."
-Inform ignorance, discipline stupid. Some of your subordinates will not know (remain ignorant) of required actions, behaviors, processes, standards, etc. Your job as an NCO is to train them (relieve their ignorance). Show-do-teach-check technique works well. Show them how to do it right. Observe them attempting to do it right, correct, try again, until they get it right. Have them teach you or another Soldier how to do it right. Check up on them after an agreed-to period of time to make sure they are doing it right. Stupid is an entirely different matter. Stupid causes Soldiers to have a lot of problems, such as a DUI. It's difficult for one NCO to train stupid out of people. It takes cultural change. The Army has done well with training stupid racial discrimination out of Soldiers. They are working on Sexual Harassment and Abuse. Do your part to enforce standards intended to control stupid.

I'm sure the Army has on-line leadership training for folks in your grade and SGT. Consider working on those courses.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 16 at 2018 10:59 AM

2018-03-16T10:59:49-04:00

1st thought, your not there to be their friend, your there to be a leader.. That does not mean you cant be friendly or have subordinates that are friends, it means its not part of the duty.

Fair, constant and appropriate .... the appropriate one some times gets inexperienced leaders in hot water.
Fair.: Policy, the Army blouse will be worn sleeves down in the Motor pool.
Consistent: I enforced that with a SPC this morning., a SGT at lunch, so I should mention it to the SSG I see not following the policy now.
Appropriate: Is it a safety issue? NO> Does it need to be corrected (mentioned since its senior person) Yes, but no real down side to waiting 30 min > SGT Marquez strides up to SSG Bob who is working with his squad inventorying BII and reminds the SSG of the uniform policy in the MP.
Fair yes, Constant, yes Appropriate, likely not..... when a "Hey SSG, can you come in to the office a sec, Id like to get your opinion on something....." and 10 min later a conversation can be had in privet.

SGT Private RallyPoint Member so be Fair, constant and appropriate and wiling to accept sometimes its neither the time or place to make a correction. Add to that, many times you can have a conversation in privet with a peer, subordinate or senior that will modify behavior in a positive way, that would have been much different if the discussion had taken place in public, where defenses go up, appearances are defined and defended

Response by Capt Tom Brown made Mar 16 at 2018 12:49 PM

2018-03-16T12:49:05-04:00

Not knowing your individual circumstances I suggest that the problems you are having are not restricted to you, but to probably other NCOs. Your situation may reflect some small degree the state of discipline is the Army (and others) today. An NCO should not have to raise their voice or verbally coerce a subordinate to do ordinary tasks in the barracks. In the field or combat, a loud commanding voice is an asset, esp over the din around you. Maybe you have a more senior NCO you can trust and confide in to give you the 'true scoop' as s/he sees it. You should not have to go through your initial career forcing a number of recalcitrant Pvts to do their job. Best wishes to you and pls get back to all us 'old timers' in a few weeks or months and follow up on how you are doing.

Response by SPC David Willis made Mar 16 at 2018 1:18 PM

2018-03-16T13:18:13-04:00

Bad NCOs don't usually ask if they're bad NCOs. You need to have a conversation with your peers and try to get everyone on the same page so as to present a united front. If one NCO is a hard charger but the rest don't enforce standards or are lax in their punishment soldiers will become soft. When I first got to my unit we were smoked basically from sun up to sun down for the smallest infractions, but we usually didn't make those same mistakes twice. Don't get me wrong its important to have some balance in leadership styles not everyone's response to every mistake should be pushups but regardless of what you as the backbone of your unit decide to do it needs to be united.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Mar 16 at 2018 1:57 PM

2018-03-16T13:57:08-04:00

Leadership does not say anything about being nice, if anything be consistent (In a good way). Never make it personal you will lose in the end and lose sight of what the issue was all about, talk to others how you would want to be addressed if you were in the wrong. If all that fails, don't get mad, just smile walk away and start writing.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 2:44 PM

2018-03-16T14:44:08-04:00

It all comes down to, What do you believe, then take it from there. The answers are always in front of you, you just have to see it.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 16 at 2018 3:14 PM

2018-03-16T15:14:05-04:00

1. So are you saying that if everyone else does it, its ok? Hmm didn't work for Nazi Germany. Seriously If you are going to be a good leader, then you have to enforce the standards. The names they call you don't mean squat if enforcing standards keep them alive and in 1 piece! That is the difference between playing a leader and being a good/great leader.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 3:14 PM

2018-03-16T15:14:12-04:00

Ahh, if I had a nickel for every time I was called a bitch. I'd have a lot of nickels.

You are an NCO, regrettably, you will not be in the popular crowd. Being female should not play a part, but it does to a certain extent. Seek counsel from your leadership to navigate through this minefield. Heed their advice without injecting them into it. This will bolster your standing as a leader.

Also, try hard not to lose your cool. That is the battle lost. Once you raise your voice or curse at your troops, you lose credibility. Know your stuff and remain calm, and you will always take the high road.

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Mar 16 at 2018 7:14 PM

2018-03-16T19:14:02-04:00

Standards are standards for a reason. Don't doubt yourself because you're the one enforcing them. It all starts somewhere. You're given 2 choices... you either continue allowing toxic leadership to infect the troops and continue lowering the bar, or you maintain the standards at the level they are set and you inspire others to do the same.

This is the role of the NCO. I can laugh and joke with the rest of them when the shift is running smoothly. But if things aren't going the way I want them to, then just like flipping a light switch, the personality changes and the NCO comes out.

The troops will come to realize that things run smoother when they work with me than against me. If they think working with me as an NCO is bad, there's always working parties. I'm sure I can find a toilet that needs scrubbing somewhere.

Welcome to the NCO life.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2018 10:54 PM

2018-03-16T22:54:57-04:00

Every time you don’t make an on the spot correction, you set a new standard. Give’em hell corporal!

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Mar 18 at 2018 8:58 PM

2018-03-18T20:58:09-04:00

COL Sage Thronberry------ New NCO, You have got to learn thing have changed now. You are going to have to develop the style that fit you. Until you are able to correct an individual in a normal tone they going to hate you. Now there are times when you have to speak a little stern but there is no need every time. What works for one doesn't mean it will work for you. LUCK TO YOU.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2018 6:46 PM

2018-03-19T18:46:53-04:00

There are some very excellent responses here.

Just some pointers from my side.

I've been the ASAIC (NCOIC) of several organizations over the past 16 years. Never, never, never stop enforcing standards. Thing about being a leader is that we're not going to make everyone happy all the time, and that's okay. There is is a trend out there where people are more worried about being "friends" as opposed to "leaders" and in a military, that's detrimental to the organization as a whole.

I would say you keep doing what you're doing but also be mindful of treading too close to being 'toxic.' By that, I mean don't demean people. Don't be loud, insulting, or rude. If someone makes a mistake, correct the mistake out of view of their peers. Give Soldiers verbal counselings first and if the problem persists, start documenting things. We do this because as an NCO corps, we should strive to be a self-correcting body.

Get with your senior leaders, PSG, 1SG, etc. Let them know about the challenges you're facing and strive to get them on your team so that if you have that one person who is your outright problem Soldier, you can document everything and eventually push for UCMJ if necessary.

I don't know what else to say that hasn't already been said other than you're an NCO. Do what is right at all times regardless of peoples' feelings and you won't go wrong.

Good luck!

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2018 7:47 PM

2018-03-19T19:47:20-04:00

That which is right is not always popular. That which is popular is not always right. Don't let others influence your conduct as an NCO. Do what is right.

Response by LTC Robin P. made Mar 22 at 2018 1:00 PM

2018-03-22T13:00:15-04:00

You are a Corporal, so someone thinks you are showing above-average leadership skills and turned you into an NCO early. You're now in that phase where other soldiers test you to see what they can get away with. You don't let them, so they think it's gone to your head or you're a bitch. Good for you! That means you're doing your job.

As an NCO, you're held to a higher standard. You are punished more harshly for any misconduct. You are held responsible not just for yourself, but for others. PVT Snuffy's not at formation? Where is he, CPL Thornberry? PFC Molly is out of uniform? Why is that, CPL Thornberry? You get hammered for the bad things your soldiers do.

A fellow officer once said, "I have become the Major I used to hate." The higher up you go, the more you can see the pressures coming downward onto the unit, and the more of that pressure is on YOU. We do try to keep the shit from rolling downhill, but we MUST maintain standards and accomplish our missions, or we're out.

My best advice to you is, be absolutely fair and professional. Reprimand in private, praise in public. You can be pretty easygoing and have a collaborative leadership style - ask for inputs, accept good ideas, don't micromanage - but be an unmoving brick wall when subordinates do wrong. Ask some senior NCOs -
the higher up, the better - for advice on written counseling and "re-training" techniques to address misbehavior.

You got this. Go for it!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2018 1:31 PM

2018-03-22T13:31:11-04:00

If you're enforcing standards that's your job as a NCO. The issue is females who are tough get called "bitches." Males who are tough are "determined" or some other non-negative word.

I'll give you an example: My second deployment we actually had a pretty full S2 shop. I wasn't the only soldier at least. By that point I was a SGT. We had a 35F Soldier (male), a chemical NCO (I don't know why they changed MTOE and put chemical with us then) a female SGT, a 21B SGT (male) and our OIC (female). For a few months into the middle of the deployment I noticed that the other female SGT was kind of too relaxed with the soldier. I talked to her (I was basically the NCOIC as we moved through three NCOICs but I was also friends with her) and said "Either you're his friend or the NCO. You can't be both." I told her how it looked. Not really fraternization but I knew he was being too relaxed. She said she got it so she started to be the NCO. This kid...I think after I got back from R&R and I was told he was disrespectful to the SGT (both the male and female ones) in our section and just attitude.

I talked to him and he says how that other female SGT is such a "bitch" and all this. I said 'Hold up right there." I gave him a lecture about they are NCOs you treat them with respect and that just because now she's being a NCO does not make her a bitch.

I know he had an issue with females superior to him. I got him 19 straight out of AIT. Cocky little turd who thought he could flash a smile and any woman would fall for him. Yuck for one because at that point I was like 26 or 27 I think. Younger guys are gross to me. He is the same age as my youngest brother. Most guys who flirt I don't fall for anyway. But I know he hated me because I was a female in charge of him who didn't let him get away with shit. Even when our OIC got tougher on him after I had a talk with her about how they babied him he wasn't happy with that.

Some soldiers just can't handle females in a position of authority. And sometimes yes there are female soldiers or NCOs who are just flat out being a bitch. Don't get me wrong. There is a difference though.

Sum it up again if you know you're enforcing the standards and you're doing the right thing don't worry about what others say. You can't control what they say behind your back. But if you get disrespected over it put your foot down on that.

Response by SFC Bosun Frusher made Mar 22 at 2018 5:47 PM

2018-03-22T17:47:35-04:00

I was in a unique position in which my crew lived and worked on a small vessel
I would open my home to them on the weekend to take the pressure off of them and to stop those 0300 calls from the pd to pick them up
The ground rules were that at my home I was one of the guys. When the duty day started god help the poor sob that tried to take advantage
Built one hell of of a tight knit unit
On duty no quarter asked and none given
Some of may not approve but then I do not care but it worked for me and kept them out of trouble. I would call that a win win situation

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Mar 23 at 2018 8:50 AM

2018-03-23T08:50:47-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member you aren't a bad NCO and you're learning through the school of hard knocks. You've got a great attitude and a strong will to be the very best you can be as a junior NCO. Stay the course and never give up your integrity. Find a great NCO or SNCO that is willing to be your mentor or coach that you can turn to when you have questions or concerns. Find a great mentor here on RallyPoint. There are lots of great NCOs that can assist you. It isn't going to be easy, but you'll find your way and grow into a great BOX. The fact your asking the question itself proves that you care and want to be the very best. There will always be those who you're in charge of that will call you names and talk behind your back, but in the end if you maintain your standards you'll earn their respect. Everyone that has been in your shoes has lost their cool once. If you did it with a specific individual then I would meet with them and let them know that isn't how you operate and let's start all over again. That is me and my advise. Learn from that breakdown in temper and adjust, so you don't let it happen again. Under pressure means you are cool and collective going forward. Anyway, that is my two cents from a former NCO that crossed over to the dark side. Lol.

Response by CPT Scott Sharon made Mar 23 at 2018 9:00 AM

2018-03-23T09:00:43-04:00

You simply do your job the best you know how and don't worry about it! Those people's lives may depend on you someday or on what you teach them. In fact, our entire country depends on you and people like you doing your job well. That's an awesome responsibility and it's a lot more important than being liked.

Response by 1SG Dave Carello made Mar 23 at 2018 9:21 AM

2018-03-23T09:21:37-04:00

You should be congratulated! YOU are acting the part of an NCO, continue your actions but, remember to be fair and, if you give direction see that it is carried out. Anyone can give an order or task but it takes a leader to follow up and see that the task has been completed properly. And, any Soldier has the responsibility of making on the spot corrections as long as you are correct. Keep it up, you are on the RIGHT trail.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 9:23 AM

2018-03-23T09:23:12-04:00

This problem will be pointed in many directions from the most junior to the most senior service member. What I have yet to see is somebody take accountability of their own shortcomings in this realm.

Certain implications hold true, whereevet the SM was before arriving to where they are assigned now of course structures them to behave a certain way. But, and I must stress this, it is our jobs as the new leader to enforce the standards to which our organization expects to be upheld.

This is not a one and done shop, there are many things recruits do not learn for whatever reason, and discipline and military life is one of the most challenging. “Give and inch, they’ll take a mile” it doesn’t matter what came before, what is now and what affects the now are what is most important.

So, you are not wrong to perform your duty of ensuring soldiers are trained to standard and uphold those standards.

I am widely known for a few things among my soldiers and peers. 1. They can trust me in knowing I will fight for them, whatever the issue, until I exhaust every possible option, at the expense of my own personal well-being at times. 2. I can be the easiest going person, will dive in and embrace the suck with them, and do not ask them to do anything I myself wouldn’t do, or would place them in a position that compromises them. And 3. I will straight up get in anyone’s ass for not maintaining standard or discipline. It’s really all I ask, I will do hip pocket training a couple times to ensure they understand what is expected, after that, corrective action.

What I’ve learned so far is that it is a respect thing. Of your soldiers respect you, they will understand your reasoning in upholding values, traditions, courtesy, etc. obviously it’s more difficult when the person in subject doesn’t know you, this is where being tactfully stern is of absolute necessity. If you maintain composure, you can influence and change anything

Response by SGT Mark Halmrast made Mar 23 at 2018 9:24 AM

2018-03-23T09:24:27-04:00

Best NCO I served under did three things that set him apart:
- he readied us beyond where we had ever been
- he held us to the highest standards
- he led by example

We became an outstanding unit. Others held us w/respect. And we stood tall.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 10:16 AM

2018-03-23T10:16:41-04:00

Be the example! There is no need to lose your cool, sometimes sarcasm can be a good tool. Some people don't like authority, they should be easy to pick out and you can still weed them out. They aren't needed.

Take a few leadership courses in the area. Times have changed but regulations haven't. Leadership skills are either inherent or their not, but they can still be learned. Also, if you haven't already, study the MBTI (Myers Briggs Type Indicator) traits and learn how interact with different personalities.

You can do it, it just takes time and patience.

Response by Sgt Adrian Jones made Mar 23 at 2018 10:20 AM

2018-03-23T10:20:26-04:00

Your not a bad NCO for holding everyone your in charge of to certain standards, when I was a newly promoted Sgt I was the same way. One thing that my drill instructors told me that "stuck" was to take the characteristics from good leaders and remember the leaders with bad traits. I used that to develop my own leadership style. I think it's abit harder for females I noticed either your a pushover or a bitch I'd rather be a respected bitch than a pushover.

Response by Alan K. made Mar 23 at 2018 10:49 AM

2018-03-23T10:49:36-04:00

At the End of the day you are not there to be their Friend....You are there to make sure they come home every time. I tell my boys the same thing....And there is an unlimited amount of different therapies we can try to gain the intended result. Like Maj. Bell said....I speak, you do...Any questions?

Response by SSG Jose M. Hernandezsanchez made Mar 23 at 2018 10:53 AM

2018-03-23T10:53:06-04:00

CPL Thornberry,
I don't recall having this issue because even from the early times as a Private to Specialist, and before becoming a SGT, I always carried myself a certain way, always. Not because I wanted to look better than anyone else (peers), but it was just the way I was as a person in general. I had that mindset because I knew one day I was going to be their supervisor. For some reason, the Soldiers who were my peers at some point, rendered the proper respect towards me because of who I was as a person and carried myself, like I said before. Been a supervisor is not popularity contest. I had this one 1SG who is a SGM today and he said that when the Soldiers "complain", you're not doing your job. Do not lose your temper, that's one of the things I did learn. It doesn't matter how hard it could become, stay cool as much as you can because when the tough times come, the Soldiers won't look for you for advise/comfort, especially who used to be your peers.

Response by COL John McClellan made Mar 23 at 2018 11:30 AM

2018-03-23T11:30:41-04:00

You just carry on and keep enforcing those standards, CPL! Do what's right, work hard, learn, ask questions, and try to keep your cool! ARMY Strong!

Response by MSG Charles Turner made Mar 23 at 2018 12:00 PM

2018-03-23T12:00:44-04:00

CPL Sage Thornberry,

Corporal,

If I may, I was once a Corporal when there was hardly any of us. The Unit I was assigned to at the time, a Combat Engineer Battalion had no Other Corporals. This alone made my Duty that much more of a Challenge. I would have Sergeants call me a "Want a Be" and Subordinates Just look at me when I gave instructions. Our Units had many Specialist (E-4 through E-6) and they Had to stand in my formation as I was the NCO and they were not. So the situation was a JR E-4, myself CPT Turner, had senior (and WISER) soldiers up through the grade of Spec 6 that I would be put in charge of for Accountability and Command and Control. These Specialist (some were STRIPES for SKILLS - Heavy Equipment Tradesmen and others Clerical Types) were none to impressed with Me. So this is all background info.

With that said, let me share with you what I learned. First off, "One Gathers more flies with Honey than Vinegar" - meaning Speak Respectfully when communicating, Remember although it is nice to be Friendly, NCOs purpose is not to be NICE - their PURPOSE is 2 FOLD to Lead and take care of the personnel in your Charge, and When all else fails (at it will from time to time .. IT Has for EVERYONE OF US) remember you are in charge and accountable to those soldiers and your superiors. If you need help go up the CHAIN and ASK for HELP... dont fail because of PRIDE or HUMILIATION!

Lastly I retired 24 Years ago on the 1st of April. I know alot has changed. But the NCO Corps is and always till be the BACK BONE OF THE ARMY. You as a Member of it Have to PROTECT IT and LEAD BY EXAMPLE. Your concern to ASK the QUESTION "Am and a bad NCO or just inexperienced" tells me the POSSIBILITY OF A GREAT NCO lies within. So NO, you are not a BAD NCO.... inexperience maybe but bad NCOs (called just Sergeants in my day) dont care. YOU CARE! YOU HAVE THE BASIC INGREDIENT OF A GREAT NCO!

Go LEAD, LEARN AND OVERCOME!

If I can be of ANY ASSISTANCE, PLEASE MESSAGE ME ANYTIME!

~ole Sarge~

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 12:30 PM

2018-03-23T12:30:07-04:00

You are absolutely in the right. Your peers are not. I will even go further and say that If your leaders aren’t correcting your peers, they are wrong too. The Army needs more blunt and stern NCOs to fix Soldiers who need correction.
Continue being a leader and doing what’s right. Trust me, the right people are noticing.

Response by SGT Matthew Sesar made Mar 23 at 2018 1:23 PM

2018-03-23T13:23:04-04:00

Your a CPL, you are supposed to be a bulldog. Keep up the good work.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 23 at 2018 2:43 PM

2018-03-23T14:43:47-04:00

You must be strong and right.

Response by LTC Jeff Shearer made Mar 23 at 2018 3:29 PM

2018-03-23T15:29:58-04:00

Sage standards are standards for a reason. I don't wrapped about some things but soldiering, warrior skills are top of the list. The bigger issue is when a guy starts crying that I am not a good garrison troop only a field troop. The first thing I think of is discipline, sounds like there is a lack of it. regardless of your job when things get tough, days get long and the bullets begin to fly if a person is not disciplined, jackasses become obvious. When I say jackasses I am referring to the undisciplined guys who cant maintain the standards.

You are dead on my friend keep on enforcing the standards

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Mar 23 at 2018 6:51 PM

2018-03-23T18:51:02-04:00

I was the most hated instructor in the Q-course. I had a job to do and did it very well. My students hated me but the leadership loved me. I slept well at night.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2018 8:52 PM

2018-03-23T20:52:51-04:00

Enforce those standards, and make other NCOs enforce them. It's not personal, it's just good business.

Response by SSgt Nick Parson made Mar 24 at 2018 2:14 AM

2018-03-24T02:14:48-04:00

I am not going to give you automatic praise as everyone else here has. Why are you asking this question here? Is it really professional to air your unit's dirty laundry on a social media website? I don't think so. If you are having issues, this should be a topic of discussion with your chain of command, not strangers on RallyPoint. Because you posted this here, it does make me question your judgment. Is it really mature and disciplined to complain about your soldiers on social media? Would your superiors be happy to know you are telling the world that the troops in your unit are undisciplined? Perhaps you should look inwardly and think more about your own behavior before you try to enforce (not inforce) standards.

Response by SSG Byron Hewett made Mar 25 at 2018 10:43 AM

2018-03-25T10:43:21-04:00

CPL I have been in your shoes as a CPL and I retired as a SSG and here is some advice for you ... I don't know when you were promoted and I don't know when you entered military service so I don't know you length of service. you are at the low end of the NCO ladder, your soldiers and the way they act professionally or unprofessionally all depends on the bar you set and your expectations as their 1st line leader. CPLs are the back bone of the NCO corps they are the ones that make things happen in a timely manner they and do away with the hurry up and wait CPLs are a vital asset any where you got because they are above the E-4 mafia and the hardest working of all soldiers.
experience comes with time and hard work because your an NCO. there's a saying - there is no such thing as a bad dog just bad owners and trainers teaching bad habits.
So gather your soldiers up speak to them all, tell them your expectations and set the bar and put it on paper DA FORM 4856 Developmental Counseling Form. counseling them is not a bad thing this will not only help them better them selves but to also help develop your leadership skills. You are now a 1st line leader set the bar and set the standard. once you have set the bar and the standards of expectations you will see an improvement, remember you gotta crawl, then walk, then run, once you have got those 3 things accomplished then you can hit the ground running with your boots on, only you can determine how your going to accomplish the crawl walk run phases and its no different than how your Drill SGTs did it for you when you went to boot camp the same principal applies here, remember what they taught you at your NCO school WLC I think its called now it was PLDC in my time. So develop a plan of action.
if you talk to your 1st line leader they can mentor you and point you in the right directions but only you and your decisions can make you successful or not successful, but where you fail you need to learn from it and it only will help you to succeed later, because from everything you fail at and learn from gives you experience to succeed in being a better and more knowledgeable experienced leader.
Good luck you'll do great.

Response by SSgt Brett Ontiveros made Mar 25 at 2018 3:37 PM

2018-03-25T15:37:51-04:00

My advice to you would be to continue what you are doing. One day all of these undisciplined soldiers will understand what you are doing and why. Remember it’s always more honorable to stand fast and do what you know is right than to cave in to the ranks of the waivering

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2018 3:56 PM

2018-03-25T15:56:20-04:00

Sounds like you should keep doing what you are doing. Also make sure that when it comes time you use that strength to push up the chain as well so your Soldiers know that you are fighting for them. You need to make sure that you are enforcing the standards up the chain as well as down.

Response by SGT Aric Lier made Mar 27 at 2018 7:24 PM

2018-03-27T19:24:28-04:00

its like this, with children yelling creates fear, abusive creates animosity ,and attitude creates hatred. these are your peers , the ones you hope will have your back right? so like any 3 yo you have to out think them.... if counseling explain what is wrong and ask what they think . then guide them to the right answer. they will still hold respect and feel like shit fo doing it

Response by SP5 Jeannie Carle made Apr 6 at 2018 12:58 AM

2018-04-06T00:58:52-04:00

Omigosh this brings back memories! I made E-5 and the people I had been working with for 4 full years were suddenly "under" me. I had new responsibilities (Pers Rec) - I no longer had time to "clean up" their stuff, which I had done since I got there. The pure disrespect - the sarcasm - all of it. NOW I'd know what to do, but I didn't then. I was never so grateful in my life as I was when I was reassigned. SO hard to be "one of the guys" and a "buddy" - then suddenly you're not and you have a Cpt and a Warrant and your NCOIC watching to see how you're going to handle it.

Response by 1SG Michael Farrell made Apr 6 at 2018 3:39 PM

2018-04-06T15:39:22-04:00

Wanting your soldiers to like you is as feckless as wanting them to fear you. You want them to respect you and to trust you, and you earn that by setting standards, enforcing them and being fair, honest and striving to be the best soldier you can be. If you worry about being a bad NCO, well, you're probably a decent NCO trying to be better. Change behaviors that make you wonder about yourself.

Response by CW4 Abdulaziz Bulling made Apr 11 at 2018 12:25 PM

2018-04-11T12:25:20-04:00

I am glad that you are questioning yourself. Too many do not look at themselves to assess whether they are doing what is right. As many others have said standards are established for a reason, and they are to establish a minimum level of expectations. Enforcing standard will always be looked at the mediocre as onerous and overreaching. Congratulations on making it to the NCO corps, and as long as you lead by example you will be respected by those that should be respected.

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Apr 12 at 2018 10:25 PM

2018-04-12T22:25:36-04:00

If I hadn’t looked at who the writer was, I would have thought I had wrote this comment before. Except for the “bitch” part, I was not really liked either by other NCOs or the Command, at least that’s how I perceived it and some did say, I too, was condescending. I did observe who the “favorite, likable and casual” NCOs were. Their sections ran well and those that were under them, loved them. I often questioned myself too, and feared that I would suck as an NCO. By some reactions, as least I thought so, I probably did in some areas. Live and learn. Now that I’ve been a civilian for the last eight years, the pressure is off me and if a group of civilians want to act stupid and jump off a bridge, don’t involve me! I'm done being a leader, since no one appreciated my leadership.

Response by CW3 Susan Burkholder made Apr 13 at 2018 9:06 PM

2018-04-13T21:06:52-04:00

From what you posted there is no way to know what your leadership style is or what your personality is and therefore where your weaknesses might be. However, I'm surprised how many are insisting it's not your fault at all, that your soldiers are merely lazy and entitled; that you should continue imposing your will with blinders on. The short answer is you probably are inexperienced. Being an effective leader takes effort and desire to learn about the people you are leading. You can't lead people that you don't like. You also can't pick up the slack for these peers you refer to that aren't enforcing standards, - as you are finding out, they just aren't appreciating you, you are not their savior. Always keep an open mind and be receptive to feedback from subordinates. Keep focused on what your duties are, you are still early in your journey, no one expects you to be a great leader immediately. Being a great leader can take a while. Best of luck.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2018 9:58 PM

2018-04-14T21:58:36-04:00

pick your battles and empathize with your soldiers. My team and I have a good relationship. Thus, I tell them to do something and they do it. Don't need to raise my voice. I also, don't jack with them just for the hell of it.

Response by SPC Janet Roush made Apr 21 at 2018 6:09 AM

2018-04-21T06:09:32-04:00

It's not a popularity contest. Keep doing what is right.

Response by SFC Stanley Callaway made Apr 21 at 2018 10:14 AM

2018-04-21T10:14:23-04:00

It seems like all the advice given is pretty solid, make sure you are within standards yourself, lead by example and the subordinates will respect your leadership, fall outside the standard and you will start to lose respect. You cannot enforce what you cannot attain and sustain yourself.

Response by A1C Ric Weide made Apr 22 at 2018 7:59 PM

2018-04-22T19:59:28-04:00

You are in the military and took an oath to defend the Constitution. This means you are a fighting man and not in prep school, or working in a factory. When you give orders, you should expect them to be carried out. No whining, or bellyaching is allowed.

Response by MSG Frederick Otero made Apr 22 at 2018 8:17 PM

2018-04-22T20:17:52-04:00

Stripes are about leadership so don't put them on unless you want to be a leader. Yeah your the bulldog the one that might have to give orders that will but troops in harms way. You have been tasked with military discipline and authority and you have accepted the responsibility so get on with it and lead. Why are we even having this conversation.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2018 1:59 AM

2018-04-23T01:59:28-04:00

It's kind of how your leadership is. You need to understand them before going to them. Obviously there is alot involved with your situation. Just a quick version is you have two types of leaders 1. Those who care. 2. Those who care about their NCOER/OER. To sum that up if you pay attention to your Seniors you will know how to go at them. Why because you have those out there that don't want anything to do with punishment being under their Company because they feel they will get a bad rating when it's their next eval. Then you have those that now and understand by doing punishment others will take notice and the unit theoretically be better as a whole. Of course this version would be of the best option. Is this all inclusive nope but I think your situation falls inline with it. After 18 years, soon to be 10th duty assignment, 2 MOS's, Drill Sergeant and Recruiting I've seen and been around plenty of leadership types and this is the best I can sum them up. Maybe it will help some before dealing with your Seniors leaders maybe not at your current place but with future leaders you will have.

Response by LCDR Robert Turner made Apr 28 at 2018 7:44 AM

2018-04-28T07:44:53-04:00

Learn to separate the rules that save lives from those that promote good order and discipline. Be seen as the fanatic for saving your people first and your passion for good order and discipline will catch on.

Heed the advice on getting a senior NCO to mentor you as this journey continues.

Good luck - and thank you for serving.

Response by Cpl Thomas Woods made May 3 at 2018 11:49 PM

2018-05-03T23:49:48-04:00

In the Infantry Squad Leader's Course, I did what I was told.....When I was the "Squad Leader", If anyone didn't, they got dressed down in a Technicolor vocabulary that included many profanities not heard before by the class. I only had to dress down one Marine as Squad Leader, him a Sgt., me a Cpl. After, everyone said "He's a mean little fuck, but he's right"....Took it as a compliment.

Response by SSG Brian L. made May 20 at 2018 3:33 PM

2018-05-20T15:33:47-04:00

You give them what they need not necessarily what they want.... its tough to make the tough decisions but thats what you signed up for....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2018 3:48 PM

2018-05-21T15:48:58-04:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member as horrible as it sounds if a unit has not enforced standards often the individuals who try will be viewed in a negative light until they depart. If the next person comes in and enforces the standard they are better off as it is now the norm. With that being said never apologize for enforcing the standards. Do your job to standard and hold those within your sphere accountable. Work with your peers and supervisors to bring the level of standards back to the Army level if not higher. Sometimes it takes a lot and is draining. That is why so many give up and just settle into the flow and ride out their assignments. This is not the right thing to do and not a good example for junior leaders and Soldiers to see.

On a side not be careful about losing your cool. If the chain of command is not enforcing the standards and are trying to just get by they may try to use that as justification to move you to keep it all calm. Again, not the right thing for them to do, but if they are not doing the right thing already they may just want to protect their own and that can impact you directly.

Keep your chin up and take pride that you are doing your job and living the NCO creed. Keep at it and know that we on Rally Point are here if you need support or advice.

Response by SGT Patrick Reno made May 21 at 2018 4:55 PM

2018-05-21T16:55:33-04:00

Being a good leader is hard. If it wasn't everyone would be one. But being a good leader doesn't mean you have to be the disciplinarian or a (bitch). You have to develop the type of leadership that makes your soldiers want to do what they need to do. Not because they have to but because they want to. The best example is like Tom Sawyer convincing everyone to white wash the fence for him, and like doing it. Be the leader people follow because they want to not because the have to.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2018 6:33 PM

2018-05-21T18:33:08-04:00

I see that you’re an AMEDD NCO, that always seems to be a challenge since it seems that most AMEDD Soldiers (Officers, NCOs, Junior Enlisted) are pretty relaxed and I think that is in part due to the high number of direct commission officers who are more interested in being clinical providers than Soldiers. What has worked best for me is when I see a Soldier doing something wrong I simply ask them “Soldier, why are you doing that?” Then they usually explain and I’m then able to explain the regulation. I only usually need fro raise my voice if they start arguing with me. Most Soldiers just don’t know or we’re not trained properly. I’m assuming you are correcting E-4 and below and they resent you for it. Hell, I’ve had AMEDD NCOs (usually in a hospital) complain and wine like junior enlisted. I would try different approaches and see which one gets you the best results. In the end, you are not thier to be liked but should be respected. It’s a tough balance.

Response by MSgt Brian Dady made May 24 at 2018 5:07 PM

2018-05-24T17:07:44-04:00

As for losing your cool, sometimes it's necessary. Stern wording is not an issue so long as your honest goal is to improve your troops performance and not to insult or demean. In a medical career field it can be hard to enforce military discipline and order but it is your job, not because the regs say so but, because when shit explodes and people die soldiers listen to the dude they know wants to get the job done and get them home. Sometimes you gotta be an ass, as long as you look out for the troops who get it done.

Response by Cpl Mark Lee made May 30 at 2018 7:28 PM

2018-05-30T19:28:46-04:00

When someone becomes a NCO, they should be moved to a new unit. It causes a lot of issues with those friendships and brotherhood that have been built, often from boot camp. New unit lets the separation happen and starts the NCO on the right foot without putting him over the guys that new him as a FNG right there with them.

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made May 30 at 2018 9:28 PM

2018-05-30T21:28:43-04:00

Having your peers not enforce standards is always a tough row to hoe. I earned a behind the back nickname of Mr. Military, because I took great pride in what I was doing and what the people I was responsible for leading were doing. Instead of thinking it as a counseling that could result in a loss of composure, perhaps you could look on it as a learning opportunity for the individual the counseling is directed toward. I had an electronic file marked learning opportunities, that represent the verbal counseling I was required to do. Very rarely did my people put me in the position of taking it beyond verbal counseling, and making it a very official thing. I was friendly with mine, because I had a high percentage of juniors that responded well that way. For a very small percentage I had to be more directive in nature. Adjusting your technique and approach, AND rehearsing what you intend to say, as well as possible rebuttals may make future counselings easier. That you get the point across of how they are in the wrong, is at least as important as how you get that point across. I hope this helps you as you grow into greater and greater leadership roles.

Response by GySgt Ken Norwood made Jun 2 at 2018 1:13 AM

2018-06-02T01:13:34-04:00

Remember to never make it personal. There will be attempts by subordinates to make it personal, if you let them then it becomes emotional and you start to scorn guess yourself. You are doing the job a particular way because it is the right thing to do.

Response by LT Ed Skiba made Jun 2 at 2018 3:29 PM

2018-06-02T15:29:37-04:00

Being friends with subordinates can affect critical decision making in dangerous situations.

Response by SPC Paul Wilbert made Jun 12 at 2018 5:31 PM

2018-06-12T17:31:04-04:00

Not at all in my eyes(insert rank here) you have standards to uphold as well as the soldiers who are under your command. At times be there buddy but defirentiate between the two n when to be which. So a bad NCO no. Keeping the standard n earning maintaining discipline yea

Response by CPT Mike Sims made Jun 12 at 2018 8:52 PM

2018-06-12T20:52:58-04:00

As an NCO, your job is to know the standards and enforce them. At the same time, you have a duty to train - coach - mentor and at time discipline your Soldiers to ensure that your troops are capable of meeting both Individual Tasks and Team tasks... ensuring that when in a crisis situation - your Soldiers will rise above and exceed all expectations in order to accomplish the unit's mission. Should you and your team ever find yourself in a crisis, battle, or wartime situation - they will need a leader more than a friend! However, to wrap this up - the best leaders know how to be professional and friendly, while balancing the time to serve up a boot on someone's backside when they step out of line and do something that brings heat on the team!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2018 3:32 PM

2018-06-24T15:32:03-04:00

I had a female DS that I looked up to very much. She was small like me but the strongest person I had ever known up to that point. She was not just strong as in physically fit(she was really strong though), she was strong in knowledge, strong in cadence call, she was strong in heart and the list goes on. Anyway, she told me something one time that has always stuck with me. She said “ there’s 2 things you can be as a female in the military, you can be a slut or a bitch.” I always had guys that wanted to date me or do a one night stand kinda thing but I always remembered “you can be a bitch or a slut.” I chose to be a bitch, a strong, independent, don’t need a mans help bitch. When I became an NCO, it was a lot different because those people that were your friend 10m ago are now jealous and are acting like idiots, spreading rumors and wondering if I slept my way to the top. I didn’t let it bother me too much because it wasn’t true. I just kept my cool and basically killed them with kindness. Once they saw that it wasn’t getting to me it drove them bat shit crazy! Hahaha!! So I’d always pick being a bitch rather than a slut any day. I’m not saying that’s all a woman can be in the military, please don’t take it that way. I took the advice and still practice it in my civilian life now. Everything will get better. To me, it’s just like having a bunch of kids that are pushing you to see how much they can get away with, just pushing your limits. I have 2 kids so I knew what I was up against. Lol. You got this grl!!! BTW, congrats on your promotion.

Response by SSgt Max Gonzales made Jun 25 at 2018 12:19 AM

2018-06-25T00:19:22-04:00

I earned my E4, and people thought I would still be average. I didn't get a chance to work with the staff Sgt. He left me on my own. They laughed at me until I told them I was not comfortable, I put one person on report when he told me to go to hell. after that we did unite as a unit and our C.O. gave his approval. Be that bitch,stand your ground,you earned it.

Response by Michael Horne made Jul 8 at 2018 9:21 PM

2018-07-08T21:21:37-04:00

The problem with young people today is that all their life they have been given everything and did not have to work for it. Now they are in the military they think that it’s all fun and games. You must remain consistent in your enforcement of regulations and don’t back away just because some whine about it. Hang in there and know there are those who do support you completely.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2018 5:07 AM

2018-07-10T05:07:29-04:00

Inexperienced. Just remember that you were chosen over your peers because you performed and had potential. Best advice a platoon ever gave me was this, " Train and lead these soldiers in way you were and help them get to the point you're at." Hard lessons will come as a result. Remember that there are many ways to effectively lead soldiers and being flexible with your style will help you grow. No particular style will ever meet the one size fits all approach. Be fair, hold thier feet to fire, and be willing to learn and grow yourself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2018 10:53 AM

2018-08-17T10:53:58-04:00

This is a good thing! Your CPL and SGT are supposed to be your bulldogs. You want SGTs that you have to reel back in from time to time. As they start to mellow a bit they learn to step back as SSGs. It's better than the alternative, having to push your NCOs to enforce standards and be leaders instead of buddies.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2018 12:53 PM

2018-08-17T12:53:55-04:00

They dont feed your or pay you so.....you're there to do a job

Response by SSG Erik McKinster made Aug 18 at 2018 3:04 PM

2018-08-18T15:04:19-04:00

Something that worked well for me was this... When I got tied of yelling and screaming, I simply asked Joe what the standard was. In many cases, they knew. When they answer you correctly, tell them "Right on, follow the standard". If they were wrong or didn't know, I simply educated them.

Long gone are the days you could take your young privates to the wood line, or offer them some good old fashioned wall to wall counseling, so your best friend is the pen. So you grab a counseling statement and detail how Joe fell short of the standard. You get 2-3 of those & your next higher leader needs to know about it then. Maybe they need to stand before Top or the old man. Your PSG will be there to help you at that point.

Set a standard (that complies with service standard), meet the standard, and hold your juniors to the standard.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 18 at 2018 10:39 PM

2018-08-18T22:39:42-04:00

SGT I think we need that bitch NCO . Much of the new soldiers are lazy . Even me I get frustrated with the lack of discipline. The only thing is to be a bitch with the right people . I used to have an NCO that was a bitch with all females and it used to bother me because I was always doing the right thing. I confronted her one day because I was tired of her . I explained to her that all soldiers are not the same , she has to look for the shaming ones. She stopped bothering me .

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Aug 10 at 2019 10:05 PM

2019-08-10T22:05:30-04:00

You should not lose your cool and talk to them the way you want to be talked to and still be fair and firm and the respect will be there. Been there done that Hooah

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Oct 6 at 2019 9:53 PM

2019-10-06T21:53:27-04:00

There’s a job to do, and when it comes down to it the purpose of the military is to kill the other guy. That’s it, there’s no peace keeping, no diplomacy, not to be taken lightly, most likely the other side has no rules and gets to shoot first. Why does someone need to be coddled then asked to hump an 80 lb pack and weapon in Afghanistan? It’s pretty simple really, but in garrison I guess the reality is lost a bit.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2020 12:24 PM

2020-04-29T12:24:40-04:00

Negative! You are more of what the Military needs especially now where everyone's just getting so relaxed

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Oct 11 at 2020 6:58 PM

2020-10-11T18:58:12-04:00

Is this just Army issues? I never see this stuff raised as a Marine Corps issue, it’s not intended to be a dig, but some of the stuff I read here is just foreign to me. We followed orders, if there was a problem the Company Gunny interceded, actually it was very simple.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Oct 11 at 2020 8:34 PM

2020-10-11T20:34:27-04:00

If they don’t enforce to standards why do they bitch about discipline? It’s their fault, leadership starts at the top, not at the halfway spot. Know your job and do it well, help people where you can, it’s not as simple a just giving orders, respect is earned not given. If your respected you’ll never have a problem.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jan 29 at 2021 7:14 PM

2021-01-29T19:14:32-05:00

There is a time to be a bulldog. And there is a time to mentor. It's sometimes hard to know which is which. If you are a bulldog, then at the same time do something unexpected to build up your soldiers into what you want them to be. Something that always worked for me is to take a soldier who was underperforming and make them my shadow. Slowly put some responsibility in their hands and when they make a mistake, calmly but assertively use questioning to get them to be able to process through the decision making process and support their implementation. If their solution doesn't work, say ok that didn't work, what is your next course of action. As long as they don't break regulations or get someone hurt, let them make mistakes. If you start building up those with confidence problems, or those who need to better understand how the military does things, you won't come across as you say, a bitch. This is how we enforce standards. It isn't simply correcting the behavior but it is correcting the underlying decision making processes that lead to the need to correct behavior.

Response by SSG Brian L. made Feb 14 at 2021 4:20 PM

2021-02-14T16:20:53-05:00

No way! Stay the course. I mean without being there I cant say that your approach is always the best but... Think of it this way, without you enforcing those standards and providing the discipline that they are apparently craving from you maybe one of them gets into serious trouble. Someone else may take them to a real trial. You are just looking after their careers. Did the recruiter kidnap them from their houses in the middle of the night? They chose the job not the other way around... be a Soldier. As long as you stay away from condescending and have valid points hopefully you will learn from each other. Also hopefully that discipline translates when its time for them to perform triage downrange.

Response by Cpl George Goodwin made Sep 25 at 2021 7:05 PM

2021-09-25T19:05:13-04:00

We always told our newly minted NCO's that the first person that would screw them over was their friend. They would always deny it but within a matter of weeks they would come back and admit it happened. You should be seen as a hard ass not a bitch. Be consistent and fair, they may not like you but they will respect you.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Sep 26 at 2021 4:44 PM

2021-09-26T16:44:54-04:00

Your leading snowflakes who thinkk the whole world should be fair, well life’s is not always fair. Do your job , period. That’s it, you do that and all’s well. Works anywhere, militarily or civilian, and you have to do what’s right.