Amazon vs USAREC: Can we learn from their mistakes?

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:52:49 -0400

The New York Times recently did a big investigative article into the toxic corporate culture of Amazon. The Nation did a followup article addressing the widely accepted psychological and corporate evidence that longer hours do not lead to increased productivity.

I am in no way saying USAREC is toxic or has the same culture as Amazon. However, I do believe this gives us a chance to learn from the mistakes of a major corporate situation, and use lessons learned to improve our own organization.

What are your thoughts and comments?

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 12 at 2015 11:08 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 23:08:31 -0400

This presents an interesting mental exercise.

First, I'm going to start from the standpoint that military & corporate cultures & work schedules are incomparable. I believe that is an accurate assessment having been in both.

Second, I'm going to say there seems to be a philosophical "push" to make them "closer" with the assumption that corporate is "better" in many ways.

The problem we run into is that for the most part, military culture has A LOT of down time built into it. Yes, we do surge during war time activities, and that may be a contributing factor, but for the most part, the OpTempo is intentionally "staggered" in such a fashion to allow recovery, whereas corporations just don't and can't allow that.

As an example, we take advantage of federal holidays to full effect. We also have a significant leave advantage when comparing ourselves to our civilian counter-parts, and generally speaking our work schedules, though on "equal footing" have different things built in, like we just take care of medical appointments during work, or PT during work, etc. These are facts of life for us.

Yes, I realize when operations are going on, we work hard. Not discounting that. But the cultures are just "different" to the point of being incomparable. If we were try to make them directly comparable, like trimming our leave down to 14 days per year... or having to take sick days.... etc, then we could get an apples to apples comparison, but until then, comparing a Corporate 40-55 hour work week to a military 50 hour work week (24/7 on call) just doesn't make sense. too many variables that change the "stress" factors.

But as I said, great mental exercise.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 13 at 2015 2:07 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 02:07:49 -0400

Civilians are not trained for and cannot perform at the level required of the military for the most part.

There are exceptions however; a few years ago the government made it illegal for hospitals to work Residents more that 8- hours a week and the residents didn't think that a hospital could be run with everyone on vacation like that.

At the same time, I had my doubts about the safety of working Residents 120 hours/week as they had been doing; I imagine that a lot of mistakes could be traced to fatigue.

Response by CSM Michael Chavaree made Sep 13 at 2015 6:15 AM

CSM Michael Chavaree — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 06:15:22 -0400

I worked at a unit where we came in around 9 and left when work was done... Sometimes early, sometimes late. If we had to work on a holiday, we usually got a comp day. The quality of production/life was the highest I have seen in any unit I have been in. We are all human, even Soldiers get burned out.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 7:23 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 07:23:13 -0400

Sounds like 1st Cavalry Division! Leadership that didn't work past 1800 in garrison or 18hour days in the combat zone weren't trying! Lots of love for the 1st Cav Div and Longknife but I was so burned out by the time I left It was exhausting. Come up with stuff just to come up with stuff.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 13 at 2015 7:26 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 07:26:02 -0400

Wow this is split 50/50 so far. I'm surprised. We can learn from the corporate world, just as effectively as the corporate world can learn from us. The Military branches have all taken some of the lessons of corporate and brought them into the military. Branches do training with industry for a good reason.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Sep 13 at 2015 10:15 AM

MCPO Roger Collins — Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:15:04 -0400

Amazon as a business has an excellent model. No one can beat them in the customer service organization. I have had them call me immediately after registering a complaint of their website. NO one else does that. If they are such a bad group, hit the door. I have always felt if you pay me enough I will put up with your BS, if not sayonara. Since the Unemployment rate is so low, should be easy to get another better job.