Americans must share the consequences of our wars

Maj Michael Haynie — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 15:39:36 -0500

In 2014, I shared the story of an encounter I had on an airplane with a United States military veteran named Tim. He had overheard a fellow passenger suggest that the challenges facing some veterans after 9/11 were “fake news” and unlike during the Vietnam era. “America supports its veterans,” the woman said. Tim then shared his experience after serving in the Marine Corps in Afghanistan. He tried college, but it never stuck. He was battling with Veterans Affairs, and he was unable to find a job.

But then Tim said something that gave me goosebumps. “Worse than all that, now at home, I feel anonymous,” he told told us. Home among the very people who sent him to fight and kill our enemies, Tim feels invisible. For years, our elected leaders have debated strategies to end our wars after 9/11. However, only a brave few have acknowledged that until the costs and consequences of war are equitably shared by all Americans, our wars will drag on, military conflict will remain too painless a pursuit, and the experiment of an all volunteer military will fail us as a nation.

Three truths inform this proposition. First, our wars after 9/11 are not initially funded, at least in part, by taxpayers. Instead, the $5 trillion and growing cost has been largely paid on credit. Second, an exceedingly small number of Americans have directly shouldered the burden, and those who do serve are increasingly not representative of the citizenry. Finally, the assumption we have a ready pool of volunteers is becoming a myth. An estimated 70 percent of American youth are ineligible to volunteer, and the willingness of high school students to consider military service is at a record low. This could explain why the United States Army missed its recruiting goals this year for the first time since 2005.

Most agree that a military composed entirely of volunteers is superior to a conscripted force. However, many also acknowledge that this type of system is beginning to show cracks. Some of those cracks stem from fielding military members separate and apart from those who benefit from a safe and prosperous nation. The worst fears of those who architected the all volunteer military included a concern that because only “some” would shoulder the burdens of war, then war as an instrument of foreign policy would become too easy. They also feared that when those who fight come home, they would be cast as a government problem.

More than four decades and several wars later, I would describe these fears as prophetic. Since 1973, the United States has used military force on more than 220 occasions. Alternatively, in the 45 years prior when a draft was the law of the land, the United States leveraged military force as an instrument of foreign policy on just 24 occasions. Some of this contrast can rightfully be attributed to an complex global security situation, but it is also likely true that when you do not have to pay the bill, and when it is not your child being compelled to fight our battles, war is too easy.

Why do those who volunteer come home and cite lack of connection to civilian society? It is because after 17 years of war, we have discounted the foundational assumption sustaining the all volunteer force that those who benefit from the military service of others incur a moral obligation to those who serve the cause of defending our nation. Today, while a laudable segment of Americans remain committed to the concerns of veterans, the majority is not. Last year, less than 1 percent of charitable contributions in the United States went to veterans organizations. By comparison, Americans gave to animal welfare charities at five times that level. Most Americans are against reinstating the draft. Consequently, it is time to have a conversation focused on mechanisms to equitably share the burden of current and future wars with all members of our society.

I can offer a likely provocative start to that conversation. Congress should enact law requiring companies generating revenue from federal defense contracts to make annual philanthropic contributions to organizations that serve veterans and their families, equal to 1 percent of total operating profit generated from those contracts. Congress should enact law requiring colleges to make financial aid available to veterans, equal to 1 percent of the federal funding received annually by each institution. Those colleges must also admit students connected to the military, equal to or exceeding 1 percent of the total student population. Furthermore, Congress should enact law requiring all households to pay an annual military tax of $15. This would fund a national veterans trust designated to public and private programs serving the needs of military families.

After 17 years in Afghanistan, our elected leaders must demonstrate the courage to introduce policy requiring all Americans to shoulder the costs and consequences of war. In the absence of courage, war as a tool for diplomacy will remain far too easy a pursuit, our battles will drag on without end in sight, and veterans like Tim will remain anonymous.

Michael Haynie is a veteran of the United States Air Force, vice chancellor of Syracuse University, and executive director of the Institute for Veterans and Military Families. The views expressed in this column are his alone and not the views of RallyPoint.
*This article originally appeared on the Hill.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Nov 19 at 2018 4:03 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 16:03:57 -0500

Interesting share sir.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2018 4:07 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 16:07:48 -0500

I agree that the cost of freedom is not being equally shared and should be. Not sure how the forced donations to vet organizations would do more than insure more corruption and graft in those organizations. I would like to see a mandatory two year conscription, whether that is in the military service or other federal service. IMO, one of the strengths of the draft was the diversity.

Response by SPC Casey Ashfield made Nov 19 at 2018 4:10 PM

SPC Casey Ashfield — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 16:10:12 -0500

Well written sir, and I agree with virtually everything stated. Any half decent history buff knows about the war bonds and rationing that occurred during WWI and WWII. That was a big connection between civilian and soldier. And yet we face none of that now. At most we might see fluctuations in gasoline prices, but nothing significant. This leads to what I have seen as described as the warrior caste or culture, creating significant separations between the military and citizenry.

The draft, as you pointed out, is another reason. I am against reinstating the draft for several reasons. Chief among them was rather selfish but well founded. I volunteered for the military and I would not want to be stuck with a draftee who did not want to be there. There were times I downright hated being in the military, but I would not trade those experiences for anything. And if given the chance I would do it again. A draftee is unlikely to have the same feeling.

I do not believe all hope is lost. After my deployment overseas I went back to college. A military university. While I was on campus news broke out that Osama Bin Laden had been killed in a US raid. Oh to see that campus erupt! Suddenly students put on an impromptu fireworks show and celebrated on the border of rioting. Myself and several other veterans were among the celebrations. Classmates who had never seen war shared an elation with me that was incredible.

Response by SrA John Monette made Nov 19 at 2018 4:56 PM

SrA John Monette — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 16:56:46 -0500

one percent doesn't sound like a lot. however, when you consider that defense contractors make profits in the tens and hundreds of millions, those contributions could be a boon to organizations who exist solely to assist veterans. I would be willing to pay a monthly tax of $15 to support my brothers and sisters in arms

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 19 at 2018 6:37 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 18:37:52 -0500

I think the military and the civilians are tired of these wars. Our senior military leaders said this will not be another Vietnam, however 17 years later we are still stuck in a quagmire. I concur there is apathy.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2018 7:03 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 19:03:22 -0500

"First, our wars after 9/11 are not initially funded, at least in part, by taxpayers. Instead, the $5 trillion and growing cost has been largely paid on credit." EVERYTHING is debt these days. It has probably passed the point of no return.

"An estimated 70 percent of American youth are ineligible to volunteer, and the willingness of high school students to consider military service is at a record low." One problem with America's lack of interest in intellectual knowledge is their ignorance of this particular chapter in Roman history. The world has seen this movie before. They just don't remember it.

Having said that, (and fed my compulsion to pontificate), I support your proposition.

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Nov 19 at 2018 10:49 PM

SGT Philip Roncari — Mon, 19 Nov 2018 22:49:21 -0500

I came home from Vietnam in 1967, talk about anonymous,from my once was young now a bit elderly perch I don’t think average Americans realize or even care who fights our wars as long as their privileged sons (and daughters now) don’t come home in government caskets or lie in underfunded,mismanaged VA facilities waiting to be treated ,our Nation’s ideals and principles haven’t changed ,just the manner in which we are willing to preserve them are,all societies weaken over time maybe ours is reaching that point.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Nov 20 at 2018 2:43 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 02:43:34 -0500

to put this as GRUNT friendly as possible - It is not the "wars" themselves that have such a high cost (I do not mean in terms of human cost) - but the stupid and counterproductive need to constantly "Nation Build" after our Government decides that a military action is required. Iraq and Afghanistan would have been over years ago if our Government did what must be done - a punitive action, with a clear and realistic mission statement, that had a clear exit statement. If a Military action is required, we go in, we "fuck shit" up, we leave. Let the Nation that provoked a military response build their own shit back up. The heavy monetary cost comes from rebuilding, protecting, and trying to establish a government more in line with The US interests.

Take Iraq for example - once Saddam was caught, tried, and Hanged, mission was accomplished, we should have left, and let the Iraqi people sort shit out for themselves, we did not bear a burden or responsibility to these people to rebuild their nation.

Same with Afghanistan, once Bin Laden was killed, mission accomplished, we take our shit and go home.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Nov 20 at 2018 3:30 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 03:30:24 -0500

Maj Michael Haynie Excellent Points!

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Nov 20 at 2018 7:30 AM

PVT Mark Zehner — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 07:30:07 -0500

I agree with some but I think Korea and most importantly Vietnam Veterans we're terribly treated and forgotten. It tends to happen a lot in jobs that you risk the most

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Nov 20 at 2018 8:02 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 08:02:05 -0500

When the masses do not have to experience any of the hardships lived by others, they have no buy in... No reason to care at all. Not for the use of the troops or against..
Its not on their radar at all if they are here in the states or in some far away land.,,, the troops are just a bumper sticker, a quick flash in view when the media makes some coverage, or they see someone in uniform, and as quick as moment came, its gone just as fast....

The saying "America is not at war, America is at the mall, the Military is at war" is silly, yet true.

An excellent article Maj Michael Haynie, thank you for the efforts you make for vets, current and future.

Response by Nicci Eisenhauer made Nov 20 at 2018 8:49 AM

Nicci Eisenhauer — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 08:49:40 -0500

Maj Michael Haynie I'd also take a look at how we incentivize volunteerism with GI Bill benefits and perhaps look at the sociodemographics and socioeconomics of many who join voluntarily. I'd posit that many service members these days have volunteered for the purposes of getting an education, finding a way out of challenging upbringings and lack of opportunities where the grew up (example: Native Americans who serve at 10x the rate of average Americans). Patriotism has fallen by the wayside as a motivator in many instances, I would guess. And the high school kids showing lack of interest? Who'd serve when all we talk about is PTSD/TBI and suicide? We never put into perspective that military service are not the sole causative factors in any of those things. 117 Americans die by suicide daily. 22+ of those are Veterans. That's 25%-ish, and a statistically highly significant disparity. But when we chant "22 a day, 22 a day", we make it look like service=suicide. That's patently not accurate -- furthermore, military service HISTORICALLY showed significantly lower rates of suicide when compared with rates non-military suicide. When and why did we shift from service being a protective factor to service becoming a risk-factor? These are crucial discussions. Especially when combat PTSD accounts for a very low % of military PTSD overall. We see from research that the risk factors for military-affiliated suicides correlate directly with the same ones as civilian deaths by self-infliction. Why? Perhaps the fact that service members now serve far longer than in prior eras... they have the complexities of families and relationships, compounded by multiple deployments which destabilize those relationships that were not highly-prevalent in the past when lifers were few and far fewer served more than 4.

Big conversation, here. But I'd say that if we continue to push the topics of PTSD/TBI and suicide in the manner we do, then we demonize service. It's like saying, "serve and you'll come out emotionally broken, with a brain injury, and kill yourself." Not good marketing, is it? Yet, the same is true of the kid who was beaten up by his/her parent and played a crashing sport. Suicide risk factors and TBI causative conditions.

I'm not saying PTSD/TBI suicide these aren't discussions, I'm saying the context is "off" when not put into proper perspective. Further, when we assign these outcomes to military service, exactly why do employers want to hire Veterans?

We are wonking up our messaging overall. I truly appreciate your thought leadership in the space, Mike. We need more of you.

You posted this on LinkedIn, too?

Response by PFC Donnie Harold Harris made Nov 20 at 2018 10:56 AM

PFC Donnie Harold Harris — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 10:56:08 -0500

THIS IS A WORK OF ART. SHEET OF MUSIC. A COMPLETE MELODIE OF PASSIONATE FRUITY AND SELF SURVIVING.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2018 2:59 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 14:59:05 -0500

Maj Michael Haynie I agree sir. Great article. When I came back from Vietnam, I was warmly greeted by a horde of maggots, aka, protestors. I would have liked to see some of these maggots share some of our experiences.

Response by CPT Alexander Grant made Nov 20 at 2018 8:08 PM

CPT Alexander Grant — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 20:08:09 -0500

Unfortunately, it feels like the military is just the closest thing we have to a jobs & education program now. It's an area where the wealthy can milk ever-increasing amounts from our taxpayers without having to give a good justification for it anymore. It's the only area where spending increases and nobody asks how we'll pay for it.
That's why people are joining as a vehicle to something else. So many troops told me they chose transportation because it was quickest to the big bonus. They don't have a compelling explanation from our leaders about what we are doing and why we are doing it. People are just trying to survive as their wages stagnate and their medical bills overwhelm them.

Response by CW3 Dick McManus made Nov 20 at 2018 11:59 PM

CW3 Dick McManus — Tue, 20 Nov 2018 23:59:56 -0500

You bring up a lot Maj Haynie. We have had way too many UNDECLARED and UNJUST wars since I came home from South Vietnam in June of 1971. I re-enlisted and retired in September 2001. I agree there is no reason we should be in Afghanistan. But drafted soldiers historically have been a lot of head aches for leaders. Invading Iraq and Afghanistan was based on lies. In both nations spreading (contaminating) depleted uranium there as well as Bosnia-Herz. (a war crime). The incidents on 9/11 as discussed by our Federal Government and main stream media is basically BS. There is irrefutable scientific evidence and hard evidence from eye witnesses, that proves the World Trade Center buildings collapsed due to EXPLOSIONS. And there are so many facts that demand a new public Congressional investigation.

WHEREAS some 3,057 architects and engineers (AE911truth.org,), some 320 skilled commercial of military pilots (Pilots for 9/11 Truth), some 600 PhD scientists and some 58 elected public officials are saying that scientific irrefutably evidence proves that the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings were destroyed by explosives,

And WHEREAS these experts believe the National Institute of Standards and Technology’s (NIST) committed criminal negligence (LIED) in doing their investigation and writing the final report and NIST made no recommendations to improve the steel makeup of future high rise buildings to prevent them from collapsing due to fires.

And WHEREAS David Ray Griffin, PhD lists over 100 lies included in the official 9/11 Commission report in his book, The 9/11Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions,

And WHEREAS 911 Commissioners Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton said that the FAA and NORAD did not tell the truth to the Commission, the Commission failed to bring charges against witnesses who they alleged gave false testimony, and 9/11 Commissioners former US Senators Bob Kerrey and Max Cleland called the Commission’s investigation a cover up,

Tell me how the terrorist knew that all the war games would be on-going prior to and during 9/11? The four Air Force exercises wherein false radar blips were inserted onto FAA and NORAD radar scopes? How did the terrorists know the best places to turn off the transponders so when making a u-turn air traffic controllers could not easily see them on radar?

Here is a very good video by 3057 Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
https://www.ae911truth.org/continuing-ed/ae911-aag-l#p1

Irrefutable Evidence - The 9/11 Official Story is Total BS
about 120 pages
send me an email at [login to see] and I will reply with it attach for free.

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And would you believe it is high likely we could use a new investigation of the JFK assassination and the prosecution of AWOL Bush et al for war crimes.

9/11 Truth Seattle
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ [login to see] 2870/

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https://www.facebook.com/groups/ [login to see] 96379/

What Pilots are saying about 9/11 Truth
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Response by SSgt Emmanuel Obi made Nov 21 at 2018 12:52 AM

SSgt Emmanuel Obi — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 00:52:16 -0500

Every President, Senator and Congresssional rep should have a adult age child automatically drafted into the military upon assumption of office. That would cut down the need for fruitless and drastic war.

Response by SSgt Emmanuel Obi made Nov 21 at 2018 12:54 AM

SSgt Emmanuel Obi — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 00:54:45 -0500

Just like those clamoring for a confrontation with Iran, while conveniently forget the Iraq debacle. Most never have skin in the game.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 21 at 2018 8:30 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 08:30:38 -0500

So... just a thought.
How about we try considering more carefully when we are going to engage militarily as an instrument of policy. And while we are at it, actually communicate real goals and objectives for that engagement that upon being achieved, the mission ends.
I would say much of the issue is not with the volunteer force per se, but rather with the cavalier manner in which that force has been employed.
This is a bipartisan issue, as every President since I can remember has done this multiple times. Some did it on a bigger scale than others, but it is entirely too easy to employ military force without any check or balance on its use.
I think Congress should reclaim it's Article II powers and reassert that it is the one to declare war, not the executive.
That would solve a lot.

Response by SGT Mark Estes made Nov 21 at 2018 3:39 PM

SGT Mark Estes — Wed, 21 Nov 2018 15:39:57 -0500

Wow, what a crazy read. Hits pretty hard especially after seeing the numbers of conflicts during the draft era and post draft era. Also the disconnect and ungratefulness. What a powerful article!

Response by MSG Jay Jackson made Nov 22 at 2018 8:46 PM

MSG Jay Jackson — Thu, 22 Nov 2018 20:46:31 -0500

Great article but I disagree with some of your suggestions. First of all requiring a business to give away some of it’s profits to help anyone sounds like communists way of governing. I will agree that the contracting process needs reworking though. I read in one of the posts that voting rights should be tied to service in the Armed Forces. Well not be rude sir, but the right to vote is given to you by the USC and not some government agency or worker. Now as for the draft I will also disagree. Our early wars were mostly won by draftees. And I think it would be good for us as a nation to use the draft when we have to. Troublemakers can be felt with as most know plus these draftees will not hang around after the fighting is over.
I also agree that the military is not a nation builder, we break stuff and go away. The nation builder thing is for the civilian leaders to figure out.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Nov 23 at 2018 1:16 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 01:16:27 -0500

TL;DR version. We have a problem, let's throw (other people's) money at it. Oh and also reinstate indentured servitude.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 23 at 2018 7:12 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 19:12:22 -0500

Don't agree at all with any law to force a private corporation to give money to any service organization.
Earmarking it for the VA, okay, but not service organizations.
We already pay a military tax as part of our overall taxes.

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Nov 25 at 2018 1:27 AM

MSgt Steve Sweeney — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 01:27:28 -0500

Whatever became of the Abrams doctrine?

A good read on the issue you re discussing now can be found in "Drift: The Unmooring of American Military Power". Yes, it was written by Rachel Maddow, but she does her homework.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005BUG6T8/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Drift: The Unmooring of American Military Power - Kindle edition by Rachel Maddow. Politics &...

Drift: The Unmooring of American Military Power - Kindle edition by Rachel Maddow. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading Drift: The Unmooring of American Military Power.

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Nov 25 at 2018 10:20 AM

SPC Erich Guenther — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 10:20:16 -0500

My comment on this is bringing back the Draft as a solution to fix growing obesity levels is roughly analogous to a Single Payer Healthcare system to fix a small percentage of people without access to healthcare. Neither solution really fixes the root cause issues and makes the rest of us carry more of a burden then we are doing now.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2018 9:00 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Nov 2018 21:00:43 -0500

Mike, very well written and thought provoking piece, but I think you make some big leaps of logic in your argument that you don’t back up. You state that a fundamental aspect of the all volunteer military is that those we serve have to somehow repay that; I joined to “serve” which implies I’m voluntarily and selflessly doing it. I’m grateful for the tangible and intangible benefits I have/do receive, but don’t feel I’m owed anything beyond what is contracted with me.

I also think it is a big leap to move from saying the military is a very small slice of society to saying the all volunteer force is going to fail. You may be right, but you never showed me why.

I agree the civ-mil divide is a problem, but don’t think more taxes will fix it (I like the concept of universal service). All this being said, I appreciate you taking the time to write this, and am glad people are talking about this.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 26 at 2018 12:39 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:39:02 -0500

When the majority of Americans have no stake in the game; i.e. losing a son or daughter, the mechanisms of power are free to operate uncontested.

Response by Col Carl Whicker made Nov 28 at 2018 9:55 AM

Col Carl Whicker — Wed, 28 Nov 2018 09:55:50 -0500

Very interesting! The fact that Americans give 5 times as much charity to animal rights as they do veterans, while not too surprising, does concern me. Unfortunately, there will always be a large portion of the population who will more readily identify with the welfare of stray animals than the people who defend their right to do so. Don't get me wrong, I love animals, too, but our veterans deserve better! The $15 military tax is an interesting idea. It would definitely generate a lot of debate about the way we treat our veterans, but it also may set an undesirable precedent for additional taxation and the government has already proven to be a terrible manager of funds for veteran support. No matter how designated, the funds would end up going into the General Fund and be mismanaged the way other special funding is, a la Social Security.

Response by MAJ Matthew Arnold made Nov 28 at 2018 3:17 PM

MAJ Matthew Arnold — Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:17:07 -0500

History shows when the citizenry becomes too comfortable and relinquishes national defense and military service to a small group of professionals that they then become even more disconnected and disinterested from national defense often resulting in one of two bad outcomes. 1, the professional military group takes over. 2, the nation is conquered by another nation.

Therefore, I am in favor of required national defense service. It is a duty and an investment in the nation of nativity. I would prefer to see military service obligation along the lines of the Swiss model, where one serves a short time on active duty, enough to be trained in a specialty, and then placed in the reserve for a few years.

Response by IykeThompson TeyeKojo Hanson made Nov 30 at 2018 3:55 AM

IykeThompson TeyeKojo Hanson — Fri, 30 Nov 2018 03:55:54 -0500

Please sir, how can I join the army, it's my dream, wish, ready, Willing & dying to join the service to do by best to defend any country who consider me to join it military service. Thank you for anybody who's ready to help me

Response by CW2 Jalistair B made Nov 30 at 2018 11:52 PM

CW2 Jalistair B — Fri, 30 Nov 2018 23:52:02 -0500

Sorry, I can't relate to this article. I joined the guard out of high school because I wanted to and had the goal of becoming a pilot. I became a pilot in the guard and later went active duty. Two tours in Iraq, one tour in Afghanistan, and never once did I feel distanced, separated, invisible, or ignored by civilians or the civilian lifestyle. Today I enjoy a career in investments and must create my own business opportunities day in and day out. Grounding me during my military career and now is my faith in God. When your eyes are on Jesus and not on the waters around you, it is easier to integrate into the military or back into civilian life.

As for the GWOT, it has become a farce. We went into Iraq with a mission of destroying Saddam's military and no objective of what to do after that was complete, so we did what we always do and we turned to "nation building." We entered Afghanistan in retaliation to 9-11 with the goal of capturing or killing OBL and destroying the Taliban. Again, we had no clue what we would do once we controlled the ground... so we turned to nation building.

I for one have no problem with going to war and accomplishing the mission. But accomplish the mission and then get out. Before we ever go into war we must have clear defined objectives AND an exit strategy that we stick to. What happens to their land after we leave is their problem. For example, if we take out Saddam and his military and then leave only to see that forces we oppose take over Iraq, then we can always go back in and destroy them too. Lastly, at no time should our hard earned tax dollars be forked over to nation build nations that don't even like us.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2018 5:01 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Dec 2018 05:01:49 -0500

"I can offer a likely provocative start to that conversation. Congress should enact......"

I am not sure how three taxes that would be silently passed onto the 47% of American public that actually pays federal taxes would fix anything.

Response by PO2 Steven Michaeli made Dec 2 at 2018 6:54 AM

PO2 Steven Michaeli — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 06:54:52 -0500

Not sure which is worse, holding the line with too few troops or standing shoulder to shoulder in a Fox-hole with someone who doesn’t want to be there which is what would happen with the draft. Here’s an idea, quit forcing retirement based purely on Time-in-service.

Response by SGT Bruce Barber made Dec 2 at 2018 6:24 PM

SGT Bruce Barber — Sun, 02 Dec 2018 18:24:29 -0500

I do agree with a lot that you've stated. I do not agree with forced donations,nor giving it to veteran organizations. None of these organizations have helped veterans that I know who are homeless, in need of clothes, medical care, dental care and more. The VA has dropped the ball when it comes to choice, community Care, and now the mission act.

I'm watching what's happening right now at the Atlanta VA. Rated a one star, entire command staff terminated two weeks.ago and it's all the problems continue.

The problems the United States has have been compounded by the political rift that has grown over the decades while fighting endless wars. Also the health of the young is terrible because they are no longer enticed to do outdoor activities, instead they are brainwashed into playing video games. It's sad but true.

Response by SPC David S. made Dec 3 at 2018 1:07 PM

SPC David S. — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 13:07:43 -0500

I feel you really hit on something with the strategic interests. Most of this in my opinion falls back to the The National Security Act of 1947. I feel this has contributed to using the military as an approach to force foreign policy and has diminished the role of the military. Winning wars has morphed into a temporary geopolitical strategy that fluctuates wildly with every presidential election. Most often a our use of force is a reactionary result of previous administration foreign policy feedback. This all started rather quickly after WWII with Korea and has continued to this day. A uniformed enemy is now an illusive ideology hiding in a border-less battle-space.

One good example of how things have gotten cross threaded is examining how the CIA became militarized during the Vietnam War. Seems we allowed missions to get crossed threaded on many levels.

Our foreign policy I feel jumped the tracks back in 1947 as such not so sure linking the military with geopolitical strategic goals was a good idea.

Response by TSgt Timothy Backstrom made Dec 3 at 2018 5:43 PM

TSgt Timothy Backstrom — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 17:43:58 -0500

Another large part of the disconnect between the soldiers and America is a large percentage of soldiers spend one year+ deployed to a desert somewhere in the world, then a year "off" training for their next one year+ deployment. I am so glad I retired when I did.

Response by Pvt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2018 9:54 PM

Pvt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Dec 2018 21:54:21 -0500

This is absurd. Reinstating the draft? I don’t know of anyone whom wants to serve next to someone forced to be there. That’s a great way to have someone watching your back that doesn’t give a fuck. That will get more killed than it will “fix society.”
Forcing any company with a defense contract to pay a donation? That’s called a tax. Compelled donations aren’t really dontations. Forcing colleges to have 1% of their whole student body being vetetans and active service members? What if less than 1% of total applications make up that requirement, forcing colleges to recruit and admit students not deserving of admission.
Currently there is no need for a draft. There are hundreds of thousands being turned away every year for reasons that could most definitely be overlooked were there a need for more enlistees. Why would we draft, which was intended only to be used in absolute necessity to ensure the safety and security of our domestic homeland, if we don’t need it.
Compelled enlistment by every eligible 18 year old would be just as bad as a draft. The end result is men and women watching your back that don’t want to be there, putting lives at risk. You CANNOT expect effort to be put in by someone not wanting to be there. If it’s necessary, then so be it, but using it as a deterrent for congress to authorize military involvement is NOT a solution.

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made Dec 6 at 2018 11:02 AM

SFC Michael Arabian — Thu, 06 Dec 2018 11:02:00 -0500

I can relate to how he feels, no one really care about what happens to us unless they can benefit somehow from the so called help they give us

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2018 7:57 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Dec 2018 07:57:13 -0500

I agree all should share the burdern. But the military cannot absorb the forced conscription of all 18 year olds. There is not enough room. I would return to a draft by lottery if I had my druthers. But the idea of a forced conscription is unworkable.

Response by SPC Jim Parker made Dec 9 at 2018 3:30 PM

SPC Jim Parker — Sun, 09 Dec 2018 15:30:04 -0500

May I propose that there should a tax bracket that recognizes ones service? Personally I do not want to go back to a conscription military, because the non volunteer just does not have it in his or her heart to do what it takes to win.

Response by SGT Stephen Jaffe made Dec 9 at 2018 8:12 PM

SGT Stephen Jaffe — Sun, 09 Dec 2018 20:12:50 -0500

I am a Vietnam Veteran. I served in the US Army 02/65-10/68. Vietnam 10/67/-10/68. I used to work with a guy who was a Major in the Army Reserves. We were discussing all the different wars the US has been involved in. He and I agree that there is only one war, in the last 100 years, that we can say we fought for our country. That war is WWII. Korea no. Vietnam no. We cannot save the world. We are involved in something that I don't know how we will get out of it. Anytime you send you valuable military to a conflict; you better have a strategy to win and get out. We don't have that now.

Response by SCPO Lonny Randolph made Dec 10 at 2018 3:05 PM

SCPO Lonny Randolph — Mon, 10 Dec 2018 15:05:33 -0500

Sorry, but I disagree with just about everything stated here. I joined the Navy in 72, we still had a draft and at the time the court systems also considered the military as some sort of a dumping ground for bad boys... Join the Navy or go to jail... In my boot company I was 1 of about a dozen volunteers, the rest were either draftees who didn't want to go Army or Marines. We also had a fine selection of court room rejects. My first night I wondered just what in the hell I had gotten myself into.
During my first tour I can remember just how crappy the morale was, most folks didn't want to be there and resented it. Acronyms like NAVY - Never Again Volunteer Yourself and snide comments about lifers and wanna be lifers were abundant.
I didn't then and wouldn't want to now serve with someone who doesn't want to be there. I can't see where forcing folks to do some sort of 2 year public service gig will be any better, there is little point in paying someone a wage to do something they were forced to do, they won't do it well and ultimately it is a sentence of slavery by some other name.
As to the notion of requiring large companies to "donate" to a charity they don't believe in, it's simply extortion under a new title. The notion that colleges must provide tuition assistance to veterans is equally unfounded, veterans already have an educational fund available to them, I certainly made use of mine after I retired - requiring the school to provide yet another stipend on top of it is neither necessary or helpful; all that will happen is that they will charge everyone else more in tuition to support the program.
Since 9/11 the Nation has shown a gratifying reverence for the military - I get 10% discounts for just about every purchase I make and I am grateful, sure beats the attitude toward the military that existed during Nam! Having said all that, trying to bash the public over the head with some sort of enforced love for the military will NOT engender the public to us; it will instead build resentment. One should take pride in one's service because one believes in what one is doing, if that's not enough glory and adulation perhaps one should choose a different profession.

Response by SCPO Jason McLaughlin made Dec 11 at 2018 8:45 AM

SCPO Jason McLaughlin — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 08:45:04 -0500

"An estimated 70 percent of American youth are ineligible to volunteer, and the willingness of high school students to consider military service is at a record low."
IMHO, this reflects the changes the American education system has undergone in the recent years. As schools have been left to deal with issues of over crowding and underfunding, physical education and most art and music programs have been deemphasized in favor of maintaining artificial academic standards. "No student left behind" has morphed into "no student will be allowed to fail at any cost".
Additionally, the rise of "for profit" education, and the misplaced concept that every student should go to college/university to get a degree, has taken away from the importance of "alternative" paths to becoming a productive member of society. There was a time in the not-so-distance past that a high school guidance counselor could and would tell a student that the best path, after a poor or mediocre high school career, was a vocational school, military service, or low-entry-level positions in the job market. (before everyone gets bent out of shape about the suggestion that being a poor student should be mean the military is the best path, IMHO a military atmosphere coupled with military leadership that recognizes individual strengths is just the ticket to for people who can not perform in an academic environment, but may have the ability to perform highly at specific tasks. Usually indicated in the ASVAB.)
High school should go back to the days where it acted as a filter for our society instead of the sieve that it has become to advanced education....

Response by SSgt Catherine Cullen made Dec 12 at 2018 6:57 PM

SSgt Catherine Cullen — Wed, 12 Dec 2018 18:57:52 -0500

My mother grew up during the Depression and the government had a program (CCP) where men would be hired for 1-2 years and they would work for various jobs for the government. She always said,and I agree, that everyone should spend 1-2 years working for a program like that.

Response by SPC Earl Semler made Dec 19 at 2018 8:02 PM

SPC Earl Semler — Wed, 19 Dec 2018 20:02:47 -0500

Let's face a few facts, and see who is willing to shoulder the costs.
1. The government does not collect enough in taxes to pay for everything in the budget.
2. People are going to have to pay more taxes, or we are going to owe more then we are worth.
3. We already owe more then we can ever take in
4. The companies in the U.S. realized this years ago and moved their factories to lower costs and make more profits.
5. During WWII we sold war bonds and stamps to help pay for the war.
6. Equipment costs for the wars could be cut by bringing the equipment home when the units come home and they aren't being replaced

Just some ideas to look at. Remember after the war is over the real cost comes into play, taking care of the ones who fought it, 17 years, 8 to 10 tours for the professional soldier. Even the young men who were just doing 6 years were doing 4 years in a combat zone, why because there wasn't a draftee pool to draw on tho replace them..

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Dec 28 at 2018 5:58 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 28 Dec 2018 17:58:09 -0500

I was deeply disappointed that the leadership of this nation did nothing from the on start of the wars to make the American people be a part of the Wars. During WWII their was rationing, did anyone have a hard time getting anything in this country? Hell we gave tax incentives to buy fuel inefficient automobiles. No we made a colossal mistake not forcing Americans to give something up for the War IMHO.

Response by Nicole Thomas made Dec 29 at 2018 3:18 PM

Nicole Thomas — Sat, 29 Dec 2018 15:18:57 -0500

Sir, without having access to this whole article, I first commented that We Do. Now having been able to read this entirly. I agree with you 100%.

Response by SFC David Dean made Dec 29 at 2018 10:16 PM

SFC David Dean — Sat, 29 Dec 2018 22:16:29 -0500

Let's understand reality. First, our country's tenor will not likely support in the near or foreseeable future any type of conscription short of a war on the scale of a country attacking the United States similar to Japan's Second World War surprise in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. That being said, it should come as no surprise to anyone that so few will volunteer to serve. I personally served as an Army Recruiter in California's Bay area from 1983 to 1986 and I will tell anyone that the military was not and continues to be a choice that is unlikely to be taken by most youth. In essence we have the same sense of entitlement that pervasively runs through our country and culture that is "let those who can do nothing else serve in the military" and they want much given to them (those who refuse to serve) with no cost involved to their time or lives. I served 20 years on active duty from 1973 to 1993 and saw this firsthand and heard the sentiments echoed many times by these folks. As for forcing organizations to contribute, I would profer that it would not be far-removed from the very concept that our country was founded; Taxation without representation. One stellar aspect of many that marks our country is we have sought to avoid such tyrrany that this concept engenders.

Response by Cpl Bill Johnson made Jan 1 at 2019 10:08 AM

Cpl Bill Johnson — Tue, 01 Jan 2019 10:08:13 -0500

Stop getting into unnecessary wars. if we stop supporting politicians who send our young people to war, we will have fewer disconnected veterans. Supporting soldiers has to mean more than shouting USA! USA! like a bunch of idiots.

Response by CPO Michael Hatten made Jan 3 at 2019 11:15 PM

CPO Michael Hatten — Thu, 03 Jan 2019 23:15:06 -0500

I think the population should actually feel the cost of going to war. I would like to see two things:
1. Taxes to pay for the wars. Wars are expensive and we shouldn't pass all the debt on to our children.
2. Return of the draft. Make sure the fighters come from every neighborhood instead of getting so many from economically stressed areas.
People might think twice if the war cost them money and their own kids might be sent to fight.

Response by SP5 Michael Chambers made Jan 8 at 2019 10:40 AM

SP5 Michael Chambers — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 10:40:41 -0500

There used to be a solution for this...our elected officials would never have gotten elected unless they were veterans. I would mandate service for all government positions. And if we were really going out on a limb then every member of Congress in order to vote to go to war should have to give a member of thier family to go fight. That is the historical approach. Sounds harsh. It also made people consider much more carefully before wanting to go to war. If this seems to drastic for anyone...then do what you can under the system we have...go vote.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jan 12 at 2019 10:53 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sat, 12 Jan 2019 22:53:44 -0500

Fascinating dissertation. Enjoyed it immensely. I chair my VFW Post's youth and education programs and can see a shifting attitude among intermediate and high school students. They are growing curious. Hopefully, we can tap into their curiosity to inspire them to learn more and participate more. At least, that's the focus of my efforts. And yes, putting war on the tab is not a good idea. Either we're sufficiently committed to fund it or we shouldn't do it. Personally, I see the gap between America and its wars as emblematic of the gap between the people and their government.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2019 12:29 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 00:29:07 -0500

Well said!!!!!

Response by SGT Walter Lester made Jan 24 at 2019 10:19 AM

SGT Walter Lester — Thu, 24 Jan 2019 10:19:53 -0500

I also agree that freedom is not shared by the American public. My daughter gave me a T shirt that says I'm a Vietnam Veteran and that Freedom is not Free, I paid for it. We all paid for it, veterans and active service alike. If we reinstate the draft system, it will save us money in wasted cost of the legal system having to process and incarcerate drug and violence to support the drug use. We need a backup to the military system for a ready reserve of fighting personnel. After these persons serve their period of the draft, then offer them a what ever we can to keep them in service. After their service period they may change their mind and opinion of the military. I was drafted and it worked for me.I had to put a few things on hold until I got out. Most of them were just dreams.

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Feb 1 at 2019 7:51 AM

CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana — Fri, 01 Feb 2019 07:51:21 -0500

We learn from the experiences of others, which prepares us better for the situation and in finding the best solution for that problem, Maj Michael Haynie Sir.

Response by Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen made Feb 8 at 2019 8:07 PM

Lt Col John (Jack) Christensen — Fri, 08 Feb 2019 20:07:00 -0500

Interesting and not entirely surprising.

Response by COL John McClellan made Feb 14 at 2019 12:20 PM

COL John McClellan — Thu, 14 Feb 2019 12:20:47 -0500

Good article, my thanks. I like your suggestions for both defense contractors and for colleges & universities. I'm OK with taxing all American households as you suggest, exempting military households - as they are or already served!! One of those proposed revenue streams should fund VA medical shortfalls, and specifically - thousands of medical position vacancies, to include (notably) mental health professionals and women's health practitioners.

One small correction - roughly 70% of our youth are ineligible to enlist -- without a waiver. The number is still alarming but many 17-24 yr olds can and do get waivers for various reasons - mostly to do with childhood asthma and the use of certain steroid-based meds; diagnosis of children attention-deficit type disorders and the med associated with that; childhood obesity; and a few other types of medical issues that have exploded in the last 10-20 years; along with character, drug use, and educational deficiencies, of course. The other factor in the services struggling with recruiting goals has to do with the economy, which, when improving - effects that propensity to serve. More perceived opportunity in the civilian world = less interest in the volunteer military.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Feb 19 at 2019 7:51 PM

LtCol Robert Quinter — Tue, 19 Feb 2019 19:51:29 -0500

First, I don't agree with the additional taxes and fees proposed by Major Haynie, nor do I agree with the preferential quota for veterans to be accepted in colleges and universities. Most of the service members I know who would succeed in those educational institutions are perfectly capable of competing with their civilian counterparts and have gained the benefit of maturation that the military provides.
I do agree with the imposition of the draft, but do not agree with universal service. The draft provided those numbers of personnel who were required for the services to accomplish their mission and universal military service would be a poor investment of funds that can be used by the military.
So how do we solve the decrease in available manpower? First, as some have cited in their discussions, a great portion of those ineligible for service are so because they are obese. The services didn't used to be alarmed by that and there were specific programs designed to correct that deficiency.
Now let's discuss pay and benefits. When I enlisted, I was paid $95.00 per month. As an newly commissioned officer, I believe it leaped to around $500.00. I look with envy at the current pay scale and allowances for my retirement grade and wish I had made the six figure incomes currently available when I retired. But then I look back over those years since I retired and the number of times congress opted to put a ceiling lower than would be set by the promise years ago that military raises would be comparable to the civilian sector raises, perhaps my contemporaries on active duty would be well above their current pay had those promises been kept. Quarters allowances were adjusted years ago to correspond to actual expenses by geographical region; but I have heard rumblings that they may have to be lowered now so that only a portion of the living expenses are paid by allowances and the servicemembers will have to pay out of pocket to live in places they are required to live for the good of the service.
How about the GI Bill. Of course our people now must contribute to gain educational benefits after release and must pay administrative fees to get their VA loan at rates that are not significantly lower than conventional or FHA loans. The biggest advantage to the current VA loan is the lack of mortgage insurance. How does this compare to the GI Bill that expired in 1956? No investment was required by the servicemen to receive educational benefits which included a stipend for living expenses in addition to education. The VA loan required no down payment of administrative fees. If you didn't go to school, you drew unemployment funded by the Feds for 12 months (of course, this was seldom used because most returning servicemen were able to gain employment quickly upon return)
How would we fund these enhanced, no contribution benefits and salaries that increase according to the promised levels? By taxes. Right size our military to meet existing requirements (and I don't mean reduce it based upon fiscal considerations), buy the equipment necessary on the modern battlefield and identify it as Defense expenditure. Don't load up the DOD budget with congressional mandates that have nothing to do with defense and don't treat the services as social test beds, but identify the true costs and tax accordingly. This policy alone would tend to discourage diplomatic warmongering and confine our wars to those specifically in our national interests or those of our allies.
By maintaining our military at necessary levels with adequate pay and allowances and providing education and other post discharge benefits comparable to what was given in the past, the military would again be regarded as a viable career option in addition to the respect it currently enjoys. Judicious use of the capability would be necessary on a pay as you go venture which could only be set aside under extreme circumstances such as we experience in WWII or as required by defense treaties. When the taxes rise, the average citizen will then have the skin in the game so many have suggested. The draft would be there to expand our manning levels as it had been in the past.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2019 7:29 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Mar 2019 19:29:07 -0500

I agree in general principle, but there are some modifications... In my view, it would be good if young people should do 1 or 2 years of either military duty or some other duty around the world, where it is needed to help educate the people on how to succeed programs... Funding it with a separate tax is a bad idea in my view, but it could be funded within existing tax law. Of course our Military would still need dedicated long term human resources who would make it a career somewhat like what is done today...and of course it may require more honing as change is required... I am sure others will have other ideas on this subject, so I look forward to reading those comments...

Response by PO1 Aaron Baltosser made Mar 8 at 2019 8:38 PM

PO1 Aaron Baltosser — Fri, 08 Mar 2019 20:38:07 -0500

I can appreciate the insights received in conversation from the gentleman on the flight, but many in my own circle feel that disconnection between their military fellows and the civilian population. I feel that way because of several traits I see lacking in the civilian world. I have heard the words mission critical while working in the civilian workforce. I had to laugh hearing that since what we were doing at the time was so not critical to the success of that business it wasn't even funny. I see a distinct lack of loyalty amongst civilians, ready to shank each other in a heartbeat for a nickel more an hour at dead end jobs. I have observed a lack of fellowship even in organizations that purport to be founded on such principles. Until some of those traits are shared by both military personnel and civilians that send them into conflict, there can be little in common. The military folks win the wars, and the civilians lose the peace. They lose the peace because they are not invested in maintaining it. Until they are, they will never share the price of their failure.

Response by SPC William Szewc made Mar 9 at 2019 9:13 AM

SPC William Szewc — Sat, 09 Mar 2019 09:13:26 -0500

Since, a Federal Court has recently ruled requiring males register for the draft to receive grants, I wonder how long our representatives in Washington will take to dismantle Selective Service or amend the law to require all to register at age 18.

Response by SFC Wade Adams made Mar 12 at 2019 12:46 PM

SFC Wade Adams — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 12:46:44 -0400

I have lived this ( the Marine that initial the article started with) for the last five and a half years. It's not to mention, if you have a job, you are basically like poster child for the company, " Company XYZ Supports our Troops". As a veteran, you're used as a grandstand to show appreciation, but the company's won't let you grow with them. I'm in a living hell right now with my current employer. Not only is there a problem advancing, but also , I feel the effects of having PTSD , from some type of discrimination. Yes, I chose to defend the country, but I didn't choose to be treated like I don't matter or invisible, as stated in the article.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Mar 13 at 2019 12:38 PM

LTC Ken Connolly — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 12:38:09 -0400

Always believe that President Ford should not have abolished the draft and not overly sold on the notion that the soldiers recruited are better than the soldiers that were drafted. Draftees fought in every major war and brought the enemy to the end of hostilities table. Also they came from the same pool as the recruited military. As far as being dragged into long skirmishes for decades on end, it is a costly mistake in human life and money. How often have we heard we are about to defeat the enemy, but months later we are still fighting over the same village. (Would like to hear Sherman's and Patton's thoughts on the matter.)

Response by GySgt David Andrews made Mar 20 at 2019 11:54 AM

GySgt David Andrews — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 11:54:12 -0400

Then let’s try something like the movie starship troopers. No joke I’m serious look at what was gained if you volunteered to serve. Make it worth serving your country and give some pride back to those who did sacrifice more than normal people in the country.

Response by SSG Paul Carrier made Mar 29 at 2019 2:37 PM

SSG Paul Carrier — Fri, 29 Mar 2019 14:37:11 -0400

I'll propose something else, granted it's not my idea but I I believe it is worthy of consideration.
To wit one must volunteer for a term of service to the nation prior to being granted the franchise to vote.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 10 at 2019 6:16 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 18:16:33 -0400

A few thoughts. Sometimes you can logically derive the truth, but sometimes one must experience an event to determine the truth. Many civilians are unqualified to tell us what WE go through and what the truth is. I believe the American public's support for our wars is facing attrition. To not think about the wars somehow makes them disappear. Our doctrine of Global War on Terrorism is open ended as terrorists often reside in failed states while China is focused on their doctrine of Belt and Road initiatives.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Apr 15 at 2019 5:30 PM

SGT Charles Bartell — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 17:30:31 -0400

I agree most of us are forgotten, Like thoses from the KOREN war.
Exsept for a few thing's some of them where drafted.
Now we all volunteer for our Military service.
In Korea very few women farced direct combat or where K.I.A..
Now it is common thing.
One other thing that is different most of us better V.A. hospital's to go to.
Then The so called justice system seems to be against current and former military people.
There are alot pf us that have FOR LACK of a better term Mentale problems.
For example some one starts a fight with A combat vet. The next thing you know the one that started it in getting the crap beat out of him, and the vet does not remember a thing or very little of it.
guess who goes to jail.
Then the juge or other people that do not have a clue think. That just becuse we are trained to fight, We can turn it on and off.
When in fact most of us can not.
This is anther resion we have problems in Schools and at some job's.
Also just genral problems dealing with every day life.
I my simple opion that is why we seem to have so meny that do Drugs and Drink themselfs out of what they have left.
some can put it in a box. Then put it away.

Response by PO2 David Allender made Apr 24 at 2019 10:46 AM

PO2 David Allender — Wed, 24 Apr 2019 10:46:35 -0400

There is an old saying that I always understood, and one that is still true day: 'TO HAVE PEACE, PREPAIR FOR WAR." The military observes this one very well.

Response by CPT Alfred Smiley made May 3 at 2019 8:06 PM

CPT Alfred Smiley — Fri, 03 May 2019 20:06:47 -0400

Some people believe that every American should serve for two years. In principle, that sounds good. In practice, however, the Armed Forces don't need that many recruits. The Armed Forces also aren't reform camps or self improvement programs for people who are unfit for military service for one reason or another. It is an honor to serve in uniform, whether people realize it or not. The military should enlist only be best people it is able to attract. Those who answer the call should be recognized for performing service that others were either unwilling or incapable of performing.

Response by SSgt Richard Kensinger made May 5 at 2019 5:01 PM

SSgt Richard Kensinger — Sun, 05 May 2019 17:01:55 -0400

I served from 1969 to 1973 during the Vietnam Conflict. I served as an AF ER medic. it is the most detested and despised conflict! And as accused, we killed lots of kids, women, and the aged. As Lt. Col. Grossman offers in "On Killing", we are not naturally inclined to kill other humans. I am a retired clinical psychologist and professor. I conduct research on combat trauma and provide clinical consultation to vets in my area w/o cost. Also see TJ Brennan and Finbarr O'Reilly personal account of combat in "Shooting Ghosts". The psychosocial adverse impact of war and combat is extensive and impacts the soldier, his family, and society. To me, it is the method of last resort.

20 vets/day kill themselves. Most who do are not being followed at a VAC? The suicide rate among active duty, even non-combatants is climbing.
Whether a "regular or conscripted", the trauma is intolerable!
Rich

Response by CAPT John Kittler made May 9 at 2019 3:22 PM

CAPT John Kittler — Thu, 09 May 2019 15:22:01 -0400

My career spanned the years from Vietnam to the Post 911 era. My feeling is that it is not so much that America supports it's Veterans, it just does not condemn them and it thanks them.
BUT
There is much too little after the parade.
The VA, created "for those who have borne the battle" has, in it's 150+ year history, failed to focus on and conquer the signature disease of war, PTSD. Indeed, the 2010 VA Treatment Guidelines for PTSD were horribly ineffective. They were drug based, had a less than 5% success rate (based in the clinical trial data and the VA's own data), hated by much of the Veteran population (only 18% completed a 12 week drug regimen), and often not even followed by the VA doctors themselves. The new 2017 guidelines focus on counseling but the VA has too few Veterans trained in that area. Locally, one of the counselors is a non-veteran who hardly speaks English and is know for dispensing Zoloft like candy. Mind you, this is 150 years after the creation of the VA and PTSD is a signature disease of war
and therefore fully and completely in the VA's area of responsibility.
Florida has one of the highest populations of Veterans, and homeless Veterans, and ranks 49th in mental health care (which includes substance abuse). Florida prides itself on being "Veteran Friendly" and is in many ways, but being 49th in mental health care is out of sync with that claim.
I'd like to postulate that after World War II, we knew how to bring the boys home. We knew how to bring them back into society. Somewhere after that, maybe before and certainly around Vietnam we forgot and / or tossed it aside. Whenever, however, we lost it.
We have now superficially substituted yellow ribbons and parades and retreats and one day a year "stand-downs" for real and ongoing support in too many places and for too many things. Additionally, there still lurks an underlying disrespect and / or mental health prejudice on the part of a few. For example, I have to wonder why it has to be pointed out, for every shooting, whether the person was a veteran or not. What is the point of that? Remember, media cannot tell you what to think, but it can put in front of you what to think about and thus shape your thought process.
I believe the best solutions will not be through Government, but can be aided by them. I believe current programs can be adapted to better assist Veterans, and I believe there are and will be gaps in any program that can and must be solved privately.
"Gee that was a nice parade! ...now what?"
- a veteran

Response by COL Gary Gresh made May 9 at 2019 11:28 PM

COL Gary Gresh — Thu, 09 May 2019 23:28:19 -0400

Excellent article. I totally agree. It I go one step further. We need national service. Not a draft but a selection by every young American of a national service agency to support and work in for two years upon graduating high school , no exceptions. They could choose service in the armed forces of their choice or service with a number of other causes including FIRE, POLICE, VOLUNTEERS OF AMERICA, PEACE CORPS, APPALACHIAN CORPS , CIVIL WORKS CONSTRUCTION ETC. The carrot would be that you would get the GI BILL if you chose the military.

Response by CAPT John Kittler made May 10 at 2019 11:12 AM

CAPT John Kittler — Fri, 10 May 2019 11:12:40 -0400

You may find that such a law REDUCES the contribution of contractors. Do you have any data?

Response by CW5 John Vassar made May 12 at 2019 8:48 PM

CW5 John Vassar — Sun, 12 May 2019 20:48:55 -0400

Many years ago, I read a paper on this subject written by the late COL David Hackworth, INF, US Army. He indicated in his experience that combat units made-up of draftees, when properly led (by predominantly Reserve Component Officers and NCOs) performed as well as Regular units in Combat. In fact, he cited as an example an Infantry Battalion he observed in Vietnam that was the the best he encountered during that particular tour. As COL Hackworth was an outspoken public critic of the US Military, and the Army in particular, I found his comments on this subject quite surprising.

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made May 19 at 2019 4:21 PM

LTJG Sandra Smith — Sun, 19 May 2019 16:21:48 -0400

While I understand the problem and agree too much of America is now far too disconnected from the costs of war, I do NOT see "throwing" money at it to be a useful solution. A suggestion of 2 years of conscription for all HS graduates or drop outs, whether in the military or one of the civilian corps like Vista or the Peace Corps should be required of every able bodied citizen; they can choose which. And that includes the young ladies as well as the young men.
During the earliest wars in which the US or what would become the US, was involved, they were here on our soil, and civilians were involved, like it or not. That stopped being the case with the Spanish American war in 1898, and forward. WW I and II did involve the citizens on the "home front" more than even the Korean War, although I do remember making up Red Cross care packages for the troops there, in school, and seeing the reports of that war on the evening news. During the ongoing Cold War, and during the Vietnam conflict, and subsequent wars have even faded from our evening news reports, almost completely; the citizens at home, who don't have family in the military aren't involved even to that extent any longer, and they SHOULD be.

Response by SSG Greg Dodson made May 23 at 2019 12:30 PM

SSG Greg Dodson — Thu, 23 May 2019 12:30:39 -0400

Two points, I agree, there should be a mandatory two years active duty service. We are the only country with a standing military that does not have some form of mandatory service. Second point, I'm not sure what you're referring to mandatory donations to military organization. I know of no organizations that you are required to donate too. Although in Courage to join, no veteran is required to join or donate to any organization.

Response by SSgt Richard Kensinger made May 24 at 2019 12:22 PM

SSgt Richard Kensinger — Fri, 24 May 2019 12:22:16 -0400

A very pertinent and critical narrative. I am a clinical psychologist and professor. I also served as a AF ER medic from 1969 to 1973. Keep in mind that combat is gory, not glory. And many civilians are killed as well. In fact, more civilians were killed during Vietnam than combatants on both sides!

Those in combat experience layers of trauma and so do their loved ones. Please see LTC Dave Grossman's "ON KILLING" and TJ Brennaan (w/ Finnbar O'reilly) "Shooting Ghosts". And BTW our current C in C never served. Neither did Nixon who was C in C when I served. On a positive note, more vets are serving in Congress!

However, Congress has not declared war since WW2?
Rich

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made May 24 at 2019 12:34 PM

Capt Daniel Goodman — Fri, 24 May 2019 12:34:17 -0400

It is an interesting piece....

Response by CPL Edwin Johnston made May 28 at 2019 8:58 AM

CPL Edwin Johnston — Tue, 28 May 2019 08:58:17 -0400

One of our former Presidents Eisenhower proposed this , I think it was called the Eisenhower Doctrine. a two-year mandate for everyone to serve our country. The premise was that there was some type of Job in the military that anyone could qualify for and fulfil. Serve two years then every year a month or two weeks. Didn't go over very well . He also warned us about the Military Industrial Complex that now controls our Military.
During Viet Nam, the Politicians took over our fighting forces with directives and orders to control, our Military leaders on how to fight, what to fight with ,who we could engage with and where we could engage . Result Peace treaty and reunification of Vietnam as a communist country 60,000 lives lost billions spent on Military weapons and machines. Lots of people got very rich.
Desert storm was the last time we showed the world how effective our fighting forces can be. When They were are unleashed to accomplish a very defined mission. liberate Kuwait.
Give them the specific mission to rid Afganistan of the Taliban ,once and forever, Stay the hell out of their way and they will accomplish their mission. Quickly and effectively. However, this isn't going to happen as long as The Military Industrial Complex is involved. !7 years now No end in sight. Thousands of lives lost again, many more maimed and wounded. Billions of dollars spent on Military machines and equipment. Soldiers still dying and lots of people getting rich.
Same story different place.

Response by CPT Daniel Cox made May 28 at 2019 6:47 PM

CPT Daniel Cox — Tue, 28 May 2019 18:47:37 -0400

Maj Michael Haynie You have an interesting take on the wars of the last 19 years that I for the most part agree, though I do not think there is any correlation between Draft and Volunteer services for actions of the United States Military.
I think some of your numbers are skewed. You stated that since 1973 we have used force on 220 separate occasions. Having enlisted in 1974 and medically discharged in 1988 I remember the incursion into Grenada to rescue the medical students from ‎25–29 October 1983 was the only major military activity since the end of the Vietnam war in 1975. 20 December 1989 – 31 January 1990 saw Operation Just Cause, where the US invaded Panama so Manuel Noriega could be captured. The First Gulf War, from 2 August 1990 to 28 February 1991 where multi-national, coalition forces reversed Iraq's annexation of Kuwait. From 1992 to 1995 the US forces were part of the NATO intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina. How many of your 220 operations make up those events?
I really would like to see your list of 244 military actions in the four plus decades since the end of the Vietnam Conflict.

Response by GySgt Robert Brigati made May 30 at 2019 11:13 AM

GySgt Robert Brigati — Thu, 30 May 2019 11:13:44 -0400

I have been the recipent of one of the worse epidemics to hit the USA. It sounds luficrous, however it's true. It is Invisibility. I speak not of the action hero super power genre. I refer to becoming invisible to other human beings. Anonymity is the PC term for it. Regarding other people as non-existent is the reality of it. After being the recipent of this and talking to many others, who have had a similar experience, it's best to understand this offense to your personal humanity is wide spread and crosses many occupations. There in lies the basic problem. Although a person may not try to find recognition for service, it won't be offered to you except, for rare occasions, as genuine. Standing in the face of this blight will get you knocked over in a tsunami of political correctness. It has to be stood against one incident at a time. I can offer a statement that helps me get through it. "It's not where you've been, it's how you've been there that makes a difference." This statement helps you center on the Warrior within you so, you can fight the battle agsinst indifference.against

Response by PO2 Margaret Randle made Jun 3 at 2019 7:33 PM

PO2 Margaret Randle — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 19:33:51 -0400

Good ideas! I can relate - am an old Navy vet and it is not confined to returning home. I would be in full uniform standing beside my Navy FMF Corpsman husband also in uniform. People would greet him and chat with him and ignore me as if I was invisible. Unfortunately, that has changed very little. We are lacking in adequate medical services, schooling opportunities, and just general recognition.

The caliber of the recent enlisted has declined markedly. Funding is always the excuse - not true. Something needs to be done and if necessary, I will vote for the draft. Interestingly enough, we women are the ONLY members of the military who have NEVER been conscripted in any way!! WE have ALWAYS VOLUNTEERED!!

Response by SPC Louie Campagna made Jun 4 at 2019 4:32 PM

SPC Louie Campagna — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 16:32:49 -0400

I was drafted into the Army in Sept. 1969. I had Advanced Infantry Training @ Ft. Ord and was sent to Vietnam as grunt in March 1970, assigned to 1st Cavalry Division. Even as a lowly E-4, I realized the ARVN could never win vs the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong.

Anyway, I had more respect for the anti-war demonstrators than the so called "Silent Majority". There were so many ways to avoid the draft. What angered me the most when I came home in April 1971, was this "Silent Majority" on the Home Front. As long as it was someone else's boy who was drafted and sent to Vietnam the "Silent Majority" could care less.

Profound indifference was the reaction on the Home Front is what I witnessed. In WW 2, we had not only those millions in uniform, the Home Front was expected to sacrifice: Rationing of food stuffs, gas, rubber, and recycling, was the norm and everyone had to sacrifice. War Bond drives were organized.

WW 2 was a declared War. Since, then we have had s series of "Painless Wars". The Wars are not "Painless" for the active participants or their immediate families but, for the vast majority of Americans, they sacrifice nothing. Oh, yeah at sporting events the they stand for the National Anthem and think they have done their duty.

Perhaps if Congress had to Declare War and enact a tax increase to pay for it, and had a universal draft, they might be IMHO, less likely to hand off all responsibility to the President.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Jun 4 at 2019 6:18 PM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 18:18:35 -0400

WWP was originally there for me but dropped me like a bad habit when I had finished a program. I've learned that I don't need an organization to do things, but having an outing here and there sure helps. Vet organizations are supposed to be there but fall short on a ton of things. When vets need home repairs, who do we call? There's no one. We don't technically need food, but we need mechanical work done so we can drive to work. We need more jobs that are accustomed to our 24/7/365 lifestyle in the military. We need help in finding funding for a vet run business and help that way. Not some stupid ass seminar telling us how great we are blah blah blah.

I was less than the ideal soldier, I did my own thing, showed up, got the job done and went home... nothing special, nothing ideal.

I wasn't a ground pounder and I wasn't a paper pusher. I can't claim combat arms references nor could I suggest I know office work. Did I do it all? Yes, I did, but nothing was noted in writing, thanks to Former 44.

Freedom and who we are is who we stand out to be. We are only what we make our time in service to make us be. We learned how to show up, get shit done and party at the end. Worked hard, some harder than others (jokes on you AF). We can only rely on ourselves to fully understand what we need and how we need it. We all know the VA is a joke and shouldn't be used to rectify anything. They're a gov't agency and sucks the life out of everyone.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 17 at 2019 9:35 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:35:29 -0400

I think Ronald Reagan said it best when he said something like, "Our service men came from villages, farms, small towns, and the cities. They will all go to church to pray for D-Day.

Response by SPC Rostyslaw Caryk made Jun 21 at 2019 2:36 PM

SPC Rostyslaw Caryk — Fri, 21 Jun 2019 14:36:54 -0400

Sir,
I am not sure I concur that sharing the burden should start from a financial perspective. It should begin with a moral view. And that means involving the citizens of the country in a much more direct way. A draft for military or other government service is really the only way, I can see that happening. Even though the argument is made that the "rich" will still get out of it, the draft will make decisions regarding war actions much more of a general concern to the overall public, and thus make "chicken hawk" politicians (sorry, but it fits) much less likely to push their agendas. It may be true, that it makes or military somewhat less efficient, but the core will always be there as the base. I think we could live with that. Financial support for veterans, and well as active soldiers, should be a part of every congressional approval of any authorization for military action. I do not think that has ever been done in the past. We now clearly know what issues (and related costs) result from these actions, have to face up to that funding need. Whether we make that a part of any military-related contract or use general tax funds (actually one and the same as we will simply see an increase in the contract cost bid), is a decision for the Pentagon or Congress.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jul 6 at 2019 8:39 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sat, 06 Jul 2019 20:39:13 -0400

I think I would rather have an apathetic public rather than a resentful public. If people are taxed unfairly or it even seems like it they may become resentful.

Response by 1LT Lawrence Lackey made Jul 30 at 2019 10:33 AM

1LT Lawrence Lackey — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:33:11 -0400

I was a platoon leader in Korea in 1969-1970 when the draft was in effect. I had draftees in the unit ranging from high school grads to a PhD and from choir boys to gang members. I recall the few who were problematic but the rest were trying to get something out of their service like it or not. I volunteered for Infantry OCS right out of college and just attended my class's 50th Reunion at Ft Benning. Most of us agreed that we had other things we wanted to do to but as with others, we were trying to get the most out of the situation. I did and wound up with eighty odd brothers and Christmas Carded with my gang members for years.

Bottom line, when I hear "boots on the ground" from non-serving politicians, I think "boots under the ground" and on hearing "thanks for your service" I really hear "thanks for serving so I do not have to."

Response by SFC Tom Jones made Aug 14 at 2019 2:13 AM

SFC Tom Jones — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 02:13:45 -0400

I agree with that when you turn 18 men and women be drafted or some kind of mandatory training so they have some way of having our young people learn the lessons of conflict. I grew up in a family where we all sat down for dinner, believed in god, and loved our country and the American flag, and we showed respect to our law. Now days kids don't know anything about our history, or show respect to the country or law. When you join you start learning that freedom isn't free, I was a D I for two and half years and I can tell you that back in 1986 there were kids who didn't even know how to wash their cloths, brush their teeth. But after 9 weeks of hard training they became a team knew how to do things as a team. They also learned about the flag and some history of the Army. Before anyone say that I don't know what I am talking about. I served in West Berlin, been all over Europe and spent time in the middle east and served in desert storm reason I say this cause I will never live in a socialist country, and I will not give up my 2nd amendment right God Bless America

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Aug 14 at 2019 2:25 AM

SPC Nancy Greene — Wed, 14 Aug 2019 02:25:09 -0400

OUTSTANDING post! You have put a lot of thought into the problem and possible solutions. I totally agree with your post and think you should share it with your Congressman and maybe it could become a reality and SM’s like Tim won’ continue to feel anonymous!

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 18 at 2019 4:46 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 18 Aug 2019 16:46:35 -0400

President Reagan made a good point on the unity of war efforts the morning of D-Day. To paraphrase him, he said military members came from farms, hamlets, villages, towns, cities and the nation was supporting them through prayers and thoughts. It just is not the same now.

Response by LCpl Drew Watts made Aug 19 at 2019 9:59 PM

LCpl Drew Watts — Mon, 19 Aug 2019 21:59:15 -0400

Very good points and well thought out article. Would agree on all the budget and small taxes for veteran funds, with the delta that we take away from other less important taxations to implement. All due respect to the author with a well thought out gameplan, i would respectfully disagree with conscript service notions. I have seen firsthand what those entail with the iraqi military and would not wish that for our forces. Would not want to disagree without a probable alternate... the current knowyourmil campaign by the DOD pr folks is addressing some of these things already. Make your hero's know they are hero's, inspire high school grads to Live up to their predecessors, recruit the best and brightest of young americans. There is a divide between those who serve and those that dont, but i want those inspired to serve to be on the front lines, not those who dont. Young men need to step up and neec to know its the right thing to do.

Response by PO2 John Driskill made Aug 26 at 2019 11:18 AM

PO2 John Driskill — Mon, 26 Aug 2019 11:18:40 -0400

Wounded Warrior charity, CEO misusing money from charity. Now it's changed to Honor Warrior. Which of these charities can one trust?

Response by LtCol Paul Bowen made Aug 29 at 2019 3:56 PM

LtCol Paul Bowen — Thu, 29 Aug 2019 15:56:04 -0400

I graduated high school in 1974. My year group registered for the DRAFT, but were not drafted.

In 1975 I made it a personal goal to complete college and earn a commission in the Marines. I wanted the military to pay as much money on me as possible. I qualified for pilot training. In my first two years of college, my classmates were knuckle headed draftees who were taking advantage of V.A. Education Benefits. I also enlisted in the Marine Corps Reserve in DEC 1976 and served on active duty for 1977 for aviation electronics education. My training paid the way for me to complete College & University (1978 to 1980).

In other words I was a participant in the transition from compulsory service (DRAFT) to all volunteer service.

I would never want to go back to a Drafted Military Force. I would rather fight undermanned and WIN, instead of pandering to the inconsequential wants or aberrant behavior of people who never wanted to be in harms way.

Anyone ever see the movie “300”?

Another sickening trend is the self-emolation of American Youth.

The Liberal-Trash in America finally destroyed the impact of the Boy Scouts of America with the insistence on accepting homosexuality into the organization.

Without an effective vehicle to instill a sense of citizenship, physical & spiritual development, you get the sorry excuse for young men with stupid tattoos, gang membership (instead of Troop membership), and the use of psychotropic pharmaceuticals to “Manage” normal developmental behavior in young men.

70% of American Youth are ineligible for military service because they are video-game playing, marked-up couch potatoes that can’t be criticized for being lazy and useless because the message will hurt some preadolescent feelings.

Draft that crap into a coercive training environment (pre-1976) and you will washout 70% of the material you are trying to develop to their potential. Drafted Military Manpower undergoes a purely coercive training process. Instead of adapting training to smart motivated people you adapt the dross of humanity to the training.

Everyone take a breath and watch Stanley Kubrick’s “Full Metal Jacket” and get your own personal copy of Robert Heinlien’s book “Starship Troopers” (1959).

I would rather fight short of optimum manpower strength than to take any crybaby draftee into a situation where mortal combat is the preferred activity.

On the reintegration of American Veterans into the workforce, that remains an area of National Defense in search of a solution.

Response by SGT Charles Butler made Sep 14 at 2019 1:23 AM

SGT Charles Butler — Sat, 14 Sep 2019 01:23:15 -0400

Excellent article, Major! I fully concur with the program ideas put forth. Those institutions and companies who benefit from federal funding and and contracts should definitely be shouldering some of the responsibility for Veterans' needs.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Oct 2 at 2019 11:27 AM

LTC Ken Connolly — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 11:27:44 -0400

This demonstrate the importance, or lack thereof, of these so-called wars to the US citizen. For the most part, they are barely covered on the news; are a waste of resources, degrading military readiness, costs $Trillions, 10's of thousands of young lives and to what end? When the US goes to war, it should be to annihilate and achieve unconditional surrender of the enemy and its allies and we all are involved or no one is involved.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2019 9:38 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 05 Oct 2019 21:38:38 -0400

I love this.

Response by SFC James Welch made Oct 17 at 2019 11:32 AM

SFC James Welch — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 11:32:56 -0400

Every able bodied Citizen attaining the age of 18 years should have a two year Service Obligation to be fulfilled prior to entry into and institution of higher learning. Anyone found physically unfit for active duty would serve the two years in a Forrest Service work facility, working in upkeep of our National Forrest. The idea being a change of environment and conditions to learn new experiences and consepts totally divorced from their present Experience and shroundings!

Response by SFC James Welch made Oct 17 at 2019 11:38 AM

SFC James Welch — Thu, 17 Oct 2019 11:38:20 -0400

Everyone serves or no one serves!

Response by PO2 David Ball made Nov 8 at 2019 3:09 PM

PO2 David Ball — Fri, 08 Nov 2019 15:09:17 -0500

Um no!!! You chose to serve and you own your own decisions... For as long as you have served and live...
NO ONE PUT A WEAPON TO YOUR HEAD AND MADE YOU JOIN...