An Open Letter to the Open Carry Community: Let’s Talk

2014-06-09T12:13:16-04:00

One of my leftist hoplophobe friends asked me to speak out about a trend that she finds terrifying. Since I agree with her (in his case), I obliged.

I have my asbestos undies on.

Dear AR-15 Open Carry Enthusiasts, Hello. My name is Michael. Like you, I am a responsible, peaceful firearms owner. Let'stalk. I know yourrights are

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2014 12:19 PM

2014-06-09T12:19:11-04:00

SSgt,
I'd consider myself moderate when it comes to gun rights, I definitely think responsible people should be able to own guns. However I think open carrying in city's or other heavily populated areas is asking for trouble. No one bothers someone open carrying if it's obviously for a reason (hunting etc.) but I don't want to see a guy walking around Boston with an AR15 any time. He might be completely harmless but a ND could hurt some and there's really no reason for the danger.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 9 at 2014 4:22 PM

2014-06-09T16:22:04-04:00

I'm probably standing a little to the right of Cadet McConville. We SMs have our weapons under lock and key for a reason. I'm not against the second amendment but I have issue with the, "I need an assault weapon and 10 30-round banana clips just because I can" mentality. With all the recent shootings, I am definitely not in favor of open or concealed carry because unlike us DoD folks, what ROE is Joe, Iwanna-Carry" under when he/she hits the streets. You want to go on a hunting trip and your weapons (hopefully bolt action or shotgun) are cased in your vehicle for the trip, go for it.

Never heard of a hunter worth their salt mowing down prey with an AK-47.

Response by SPC Patrick Roberts made Jun 10 at 2014 1:54 PM

2014-06-10T13:54:37-04:00

Michael,

First and foremost, it is a constitutional right for Americans to own firearms and I like to feel that I have a good enough understanding as to why that was made a basic right for Americans ...That being said, I completely agree with the end of the article that explains how we have a responsibility not to abuse our rights and how we can better show ourselves while exercising our rights in public. I am not a fan of seeing "Assault" style rifles in large populated areas as they are designed for tactical uses...but hey who am I to judge and far be it for me to say no to it..as long as it is clear that the person carrying an instrument of death is also taking the time to learn about the weapon and understand how things could go wrong in an instant ( such as the ND scenario explained by Ryan McConville) so that they are aware of the responsibility that comes with owning and carrying the weapon(s)

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Jul 18 at 2014 6:45 PM

2014-07-18T18:45:07-04:00

SSgt Michael Hacker With all due respect, that is the most ridiculous gibberish I have ever read. The writer tries equate someone waving his penis in your face with someone open carrying. Are you serious? If someone waves his gun in your face he gets arrested for brandishing. If they are convicted they can no longer own a gun. So are you saying if Jimmy waves his penis in my face he will get arrested and if convicted have his penis removed and not be allowed to have one ever again?

I am tired of people and especially the NRA constantly falling back and saying "OK we won't do XYZ in order to preserve our ability to own guns." each of these steps backwards leads to tyranny and the removal of our RIGHTS not given by man, not given by congress, not the president but God given rights as out lined in the Constitution.

Obama has blocked importing American made guns, mainly the M1 Garand, back into the United States from places they were left during the wars that our military men and women fought in using those guns. Now Russian made guns were blocked today to punish Putin.

When I grew up the United States was a free nation.

Response by Cpl Westin Sandberg made Sep 18 at 2014 10:24 PM

2014-09-18T22:24:27-04:00

So SSgt,
Am I to understand that you are comparing people who carry a firearm openly for the defense of their selves and those around them to, quite literally sex offenders waving around the genitals around on crowded streets, in front of children? That is what it seems to be the stance you are taking, or by your linking this article, at least supporting that stance. Moreover, this kind of comparison is absurd; our founding fathers foresaw tyranny and this is the reason that the second amendment exists. If you really and truly believe that the waving around of your penis is akin to a rifle for the purposes of defeating tyranny, than by all means, feel free to walk up to the white house and demand that politicians start doing the job they were elected to do.

However, if you have no further interest in a potential "debate" as to the purpose of the second amendment and the rights of the people (keep in mind that you swore an oath defend the constitution and were never released from that oath) then by all means, i will completely ignore this thread, if your only interest is anecdotal arguments, mocking your fellow citizens then by all means, good day.

If you are interested in having an actual debate, i would be more than interested in hearing a legitimate argument against open carry/concealed carry/ owning firearms, etc.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2014 1:51 PM

2014-09-19T13:51:50-04:00

I have no problem with the open carry of handguns. When I was in NC, I was told by a bank teller that they'd rather see people exercising their open carry rights than turning to concealed carry. Their logic is that if someone is open carrying, they can see it, it's not a surprise and the person probably has no ill intent. It's when they see a firearm pop out from under a shirt or jacket that they start to get sketched out because then the "What is this person hiding" thought comes to mind.

I do feel that carrying a rifle or shotgun around town slung over your shoulder is over the top. There's no need to do that. You probably won't ever find yourself in a situation where having a long gun for self-defense outside of your home is needed or even practical.

The correlation made between open carry rights and gay rights is a big stretch. The Constitution states that every American citizen has the right to keep and bear arms. No where in the Constitution does it make any reference to sexual orientation. It doesn't say you can, nor does it say you can't swing one way or another. There are, however, laws against exposing your genitalia in public and any person with any common sense or reasonable amout of logical thought knows that outside of an establishment where people are paid to expose themselves, doing so is wrong and in most places against the law.

Response by SPC Brian Aranda made Sep 20 at 2014 4:40 PM

2014-09-20T16:40:13-04:00

SPC Jeff Daley, PhD I think the letter is written at exactly the right level for most of the intended audience. The two gentlemen in the last picture are probably carrying for shock value, why pose for pictures otherwise? If confronted, could they give a well thought argument for carrying? Or could they only spout "It's my right under the constitution." over and over again, like we see in many Youtube videos? What about the tactical setup? I'm pretty sure the gentleman on the left is just waiting for SWAT to call him up for a mission and that is just body armor under his clothes. On the right, brandishing a weapon is against the law, yet here he is, posing for a "cool gun picture".

Cpl Westin Sandberg and Cpl Brett Wagner The point the article is trying to make is, blatant exposure is not helping the cause. You can walk around with a rifle strapped on saying "Look at me! I'm carrying a rifle whether you like it or not because I can!", or you can wander around wearing nothing but a purple sleeve on your penis shouting " I'm gay! and you will like it!". In either situation the cause is not being helped, and in actuality it is causing animosity.

I support the Second Amendment, but if you open carry just to call attention to yourself, you're not making a good impression to me, or the people you are trying to convince about gun rights. I have no problem with the LGBT and whatever other letters you want to add community, but if you come shoving it in my face because you think I need to be more understanding, we're going to have issues. The point here is, in-your-face tactics tend to piss people off and generate opinions to the contrary of what you want to achieve.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Nov 13 at 2014 3:01 PM

2014-11-13T15:01:32-05:00

I agree with his point to be polite. I like the fact that politeness increases with greater presence of guns. New York City...Chicago...DC...are not known for being polite places. A firing range is an especially polite place, a very pleasant place, with very positive and cheerful people.
But, equating homosexual feelings as equal to an enumerated right in our bill of rights...that is a lie no one should allow. Feeling that you are being treated unfairly does NOT mean your rights are being violated. Laws that would remove or even infringe upon rights granted by the constitution, short of an amendment to the constitution, violate that constitution, and your individual rights. NOT the same at all.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 6:14 AM

2014-11-14T06:14:24-05:00

Wow... I found that article to be rather brilliant. I'm shocked that many of you don't seem to get the point. I'm a gun owner and (was) a conceal/carry permit holder when I was in states that allowed it, but I still don't like open carry. Especially the open carry of things like AR-15s in Starbucks. Walking around with an assault rifle strapped to your back hurts all of us who want to simply conceal carry, because you inflame the rhetoric and galvanize the opposition vs bringing them logically to your side. You present the exact cliche that is used to demonize gun ownership. Standing on street corners holding weapons and daring police to stop you is NOT rational discourse and it only hurts the 90% of us who just want to own and carry our weapons quietly and privately.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2014 12:24 AM

2014-11-15T00:24:52-05:00

The article makes good points, but the comparison to "other groups" was wholly unnecessary.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2014 1:11 AM

2014-11-15T01:11:55-05:00

I have to agree the two wannabes in the sandwich shop are over the top. They claim to be making a statement to support the 2nd amendment. Likely they’re a couple of dorks that didn’t have the nads to join the military, but constantly fantasize about a zombie apocalypse. That being said, I do support their right to carry openly. I don’t like it and would like to slap them both, but I don’t want people controlling my life based on their personal likes and dislikes. I carry concealed everyday even though it’s legal to do so in New Hampshire. I like to be low key and if God forbid I ever have to use it then surprise would likely help me.

I’ve read a few posts supporting mandatory training and only responsible people being allowed to carry. While training is advised before using any dangerous tool, I have a problem with it being mandated. For low income people is the government going to provide the training for free? People living in low income areas tend to have a higher need for a firearm due to higher crime rates. As far as only responsible people carrying, who’s going to decide who’s a responsible/suitable person? What’s the criteria? Joe veteran has PTS, so I guess he’s too unstable to carry. Timmy got caught with a bag of weed at 15 years old, so I guess he’s unsuitable. Mikey pissed of his wife one night and she called the cops claiming abuse, now he’s unsuitable. I don’t want big brother determining how and when I exercise my God given rights.

To answer one person that said good hunters don’t mow down deer with an AK-47 or an AR-15. It’s already been explained that both civilian versions of these rifles are semi-automatic. To add to that, I coyote hunt with my one of my ARs. The 5.56mm/.223cal is a very popular round for hunting game of this size. While the rifle looks scary the cartridge is not nearly as powerful as grandad’s 30.06 bolt action. The Ak-47 fires a 7.62X39 cartridge. The ballistics are very similar to the 30-30 cartridge. The 30-30 is a very popular deer cartridge. The benefit to both of these rifles would be the ability for a faster follow up shot. If the first shot isn’t clean the second shot can put the animal down for a humane kill. Believe it or not, most hunters don’t down a 12 pack of Coors and start blasting at everything that moves in the woods.

Response by SSgt James Connolly made Nov 16 at 2014 6:47 PM

2014-11-16T18:47:22-05:00

I agree with you all the way, your just saying be practical and courteous at the ssame time.
I teach C&C and I really bear down on the safety portion more thann annthing else.Down in your part of the nation it would not be surprising to see a hand or a rancher come to town for supplies and dressed the way he normally does might be carrying open, but he would be the first to lock it in the truck if asked.
you are also right every time they pass something they play CYAP and some of all of it infringes on our 2nd. amendment rights.Good article.
jim

Response by Sgt Jason West made Dec 24 at 2014 4:56 PM

2014-12-24T16:56:02-05:00

I know this is an older post, and no I have not read all the responses but I have to say this. First off, I agree with most people that the open carry movement has been hijacked by a bunch of idiots who just want to take pictures at Starbucks with their mocha frocha gellato or whatever the hell it is they have in there. But that is not how or why it started.

Open Carry Texas gets a LOT of bad press (see the idiots described above for the reasons why), but how many people know why Open Carry Texas and similiar groups her got started? Was it because of a soldier arrested for walking down a country road with an AR? Nope. Was it because a guy that owned a tacticool shop in a mall was arrested for carrying his AR? Nope. Was it because people just wanted to wave their guns around just because they can? Nope. Here in the firearm friendly state of Texas it is perfectly legal for my to walk around with a long rifle or shotgun, as long as I do not carry it in a manner "calculated to cause alarm.". With a permit, I can concealed carry my pistol. What I cannot do legally is open carry my pistol off my property. Think about that for a minute. It is legal for me with no license or anything to carry my AR, AK, Enfield, Mosin, my shotguns, or any of my other rifles but not a pistol. I can concealed carry (with a permit) a pistol, but I cannot open carry it at all. If I own a firearm that is not a firearm (such as a pre 1899 black powder pistol or a black powder replica of a pre 1899) then I can legally open carry it without a permit. So I can carry a black powder pistol, an AR, but not any of my other pistols. Is it starting to make sense on why some of us here in Texas think the law is, well stupid? Do you see why we want it changed so we have the right to legally open carry a pistol if we decide to do so? The open carry of long guns was to point out to the media, voters, and most importantly our elected officials how stupid these laws are and that it is time to change it. And it's working. Gov. elect Abbot has said he will sign an open carry bill when it reaches his desk. And afterwards, I would expect all the starbucks idiots to start to fade away and go back to hanging out at their local tacticool shops talking about how they beat some 12 year old in whatever video game they are playing these days....

Response by Sgt Jason West made Dec 24 at 2014 4:59 PM

2014-12-24T16:59:29-05:00

From the Open Carry Carry Texas website

"Open Carry" is the name of the organization, but fundamentally, we believe in "Constitutional Carry." The Second Amendment to the U.S. constitution states, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." We believe laws restricting how firearms are are kept or carried is an infringement to this right. Hundreds of thousands of Texans carry concealed, (with an expensive license) but it is currently illegal to openly carry a modern handgun in Texas. The next step towards constitutional carry is legalizing the open carry of sidearms. If you can legally own a gun, you should be able to carry it openly or concealed.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 9:43 AM

2015-04-07T09:43:53-04:00

You claim to desire an open dialogue but then contradict yourself by using antagonizing and deeply offensive references.

Maybe you need to do some self reflection and determine what makes you so damn afraid of someone carrying a weapon in a non-threatening manner?

It's time to grow up.

Response by SFC Douglas Davis made Apr 7 at 2015 10:05 AM

2015-04-07T10:05:52-04:00

I walk my dogs daily I open carry my Springfield Armorey XD .40. I live in a high altitude rural area. Yesterday I saw new sign of a mountain Lion, I also saw my first bear of the year. I only carry when on my walks with my dogs. In the state that I was born in I would probably get arrested. I believe that there is a time and place to carry. I always answer questions when people ask. A lot of them do not understand that we live in an area that is the food supply for the beg game predators. I carry to protect myself my family and my leashed animals.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 10:20 AM

2015-04-07T10:20:56-04:00

Outstanding article. Talk about two Pogues. I am a PO in OH and any cop will tell you someone carrying openly in public will draw attention to themselves, especially a long gun. I'd even bet the public would call 9-1-1 before we see them. You know you can also tell people, even cops, to F-off, as it is your right. But remember, the more beligerent you become and make an ass of yourself the closer you come to people wanting to take action against you

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 7 at 2015 10:23 AM

2015-04-07T10:23:15-04:00

In the military world you don't get to carry a weapon unless you are qualified.
In the civilian world you don't get to carry a weapon unless you have the money to buy it.

What ever happened to the responsibilities associated with rights?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 10:27 AM

2015-04-07T10:27:23-04:00

The best thing to do is not stuff it in everyone's face but to push for your rights in an adult manner. I think it is one of our most fundamental rights that should never go away. Just think of something that is legal that you do not agree with or sick of, such as the guy with the indian headdress maybe. It is his right, but who wants to see that. Either way, We do not need the Wild West coming back. Stay safe

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 7 at 2015 11:20 AM

2015-04-07T11:20:58-04:00

I understand the point the author is trying to make but it undermines very root of the problem. The problem isn't that people are "abusing" open carry but rather society's perception of seeing someone openly carry a gun. I read an article a while back that talked about the stigma of American society on how we have accepted gun violence in our entertainment causing a misconception of the reality of gun owners.

Open carrying a gun isn't making people suspicious of us, they were already suspicious of the gun before they saw it being carried.

Response by SPC James Johnson made Apr 7 at 2015 11:28 AM

2015-04-07T11:28:21-04:00

I can't say I see eye to eye with the writer of this article, maybe it's the part suggesting that all open carriers are rednecks who don't support gay rights.

Anyways, I think carrying an AR-15 around in public(like Walmart) is pretty dumb, but that's simply my opinion. I don't think it should be against the law to do so, however, as that just gives more power to restrict firearms to the government.

Response by SSgt Joe V. made Apr 7 at 2015 6:14 PM

2015-04-07T18:14:58-04:00

I don't disagree with the waving around the 'assault-rifles' is a bad idea mentality...I agree with a polite citizen openly carrying though and not a brandishing moron like the little guy in the picture. For me, it is all about CCW...it's called a tactical advantage. I had "Stay Alert - Stay Alive' drilled into my head from the second I left Basic, and I also realize that you can only be so alert. Openly carrying for me would take my Hyper-Awareness Syndrome to new heights, so I enjoy the conceal part of it.
Also -
I carry because it makes me a better person...seriously -
I carry and I don't speed.
I carry and my Massachusetts road-rage is tempered to the point of ordinary.
I carry and I don't confront morons or douchebags who could use a strict talking to because I don't want there to be a chance of me instigating something that would otherwise turn out harmless.
I carry because I have seen crazy and do not want to be confronted by it unarmed.
I carry because I am a law-abiding citizen and because there are non-law-abiding people in every city in every state that are opportunistic in nature from a criminal perspective.
I carry with the mindset that I will use my weapon if necessary to protect those that need protecting, but hope that I never will have to draw.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made May 23 at 2015 8:36 PM

2015-05-23T20:36:06-04:00

Not a completely BS letter. It has some high points. The AR-12 thing wasn't one of them. People carrying openly scaring someone into the anti-firearm camp wasn't one of them: it could go either way. I did like that people carrying should present themselves well, both visually and verbally though. By the way, men in which service wear "undies"?

Response by SFC Joseph James made May 23 at 2015 9:00 PM

2015-05-23T21:00:02-04:00

You can't compare gay rights to the 2nd Amendment. Sorry but I'm not buying it. One is a right while the other a want. I don't want what they desire. I love everyone but I respectfully disagree!

Response by SFC Jeff L. made May 27 at 2015 10:02 PM

2015-05-27T22:02:12-04:00

Well, that was dumb. It's hard to not be offended after reading it. It's pretty obvious the writer is looking down his long nose at anyone who'd have the nerve to exercise his right to open carry (assuming it's legal in that state). "Hell, you fellers is..." Seriously? So anyone carrying openly has to be an undereducated rube?

Went on to say that just because you have a right to open carry that you shouldn't? If that's the case then perhaps he shouldn't exercise his right to free speech if he's just going to say dumb things with it.

The ONLY thing he said that made any sense at all was to be polite. Open carry, but be polite. Being confrontational is what hurts the open carry agenda. Not carrying openly. Especially carrying openly in accordance with the law. Don't brandish, don't have a finger in the trigger guard, carry slung for long arms or holstered for side arms. And don't be an ignorant jerk. Know the laws before you go out, so that when you get stopped (and you will) you'll probably know more about what you're doing than the officer who stops you.