Any ROTC Cadets or Officers went through advance camp (LDAC was the older term for it). Any advice and things you wish you knew?

2019-03-10T14:06:39-04:00

I am going this summer before I commission in the fall semester. Just a little nervous on the land nav section. Everything else I know I will be alright in.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2019 2:08 PM

2019-03-10T14:08:30-04:00

Trust your instincts.

Response by MAJ Tom McCuin made Mar 10 at 2019 2:10 PM

2019-03-10T14:10:20-04:00

No one ever showed me how to make a bunk or run a buffer. Little things, but helpful.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2019 2:10 PM

2019-03-10T14:10:28-04:00

Have no worries about Land NAV. Even if u are 1st Regiment, the trails will still be there. They do a good job of preparing you for the course. Do some of your own review and studying. Make sure you use terrain features to help you as well and u will be fine. They don’t make it so hard for you to fail. They just make it challenging.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2019 2:29 PM

2019-03-10T14:29:48-04:00

It’s not a difficult course to go through. My biggest advice is to not be a spotlight ranger and if you don’t know something, make sure it doesn’t impair your ability to make quick and reasonable decisions.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2019 3:07 PM

2019-03-10T15:07:46-04:00

I went in summer 2017... Don't worry too much about the basic soldier skills tasks. If you don't already feel comfortable with it, they give plenty of time to review with your battle buddies. I'd argue the most important thing to focus on is being a good team player. A large portion of your rating comes from peer evaluations and observations from cadre on your ability to help the people around you complete the mission. Volunteer for details, carry the squad's 240b on the second mission of the day, take the shitty fireguard shift, and try not to complain. Display your confidence in the things that you do know how to do. If you don't know how to do something, ac is a good time to learn. There isn't always a black-and-white answer to everything. Since everyone has different experiences, you'll need to be okay with doing things different than you may have learned them. Make some friends. There's a good chance that you'll see some of them again down the road.

Response by MAJ Javier Rivera made Mar 10 at 2019 3:16 PM

2019-03-10T15:16:30-04:00

Funny , Advanced Camp is the used term during my time 20 years ago!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2019 3:33 PM

2019-03-10T15:33:53-04:00

NALC was the term before LDAC or Warrior Forge. Either your Bn prepared you for it or they didn't, there's not much you can do for the skills portion. It was really sad how many cadets i went with that had no idea how to conduct land nav or even how to hold a rifle, let alone shoot one. The biggest advice i could give is to work hard together and be at a minimum a team player, if not a team builder. Most cadets i went with had at least passable leadership skills, though some were what they would now call toxic. The cadets that did poorly were those that were arrogant know it alls or not team players. If everyone in your platoon works toward the success of your platoon then everyone will succeed. If they don't the TACs will know and everyone will suffer.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2019 4:57 PM

2019-03-10T16:57:35-04:00

I went to Advanced Camp the first year they changed its name to NALC, which was quite a while before it was re-named again to LDAC.

What others wrote here is essentially true; put a lot of effort into being a team player, because if you succeed while others fail, you haven't really succeeded. It's a combined effort, and too many "Armies of One" are not going to get the job done, and the lesson of that is a large part of what you are supposed to learn. It also means learning what skills others are good at and leaning on them (and formally delegating when appropriate) to do those specialized things, which is a good leadership skill in itself. A "Skill" may be something standard like someone who's good at navigating, but it may also be something more likely to be missed unless you stop to think, like using the detail-oriented person to check that everyone has all the gear they're supposed to, or the one who knows knots to help tie things up, etc.

As for everything else, it's a rehashing of what you should have learned from your last few years anyway. There won't be any curveballs of new material. If your ROTC BN adequately covered the fundamentals, you'll be fine. If they floundered on them, you'll find things a bit more difficult.

Now, since you say you're concerned with Land Navigation, take it from the one guy who disproved the old phrase "Can't spell Lost with out the L-T": know how to orient a map properly to your surroundings, check over your points twice when plotting, learn your pace by memory (both road and brush, but also uphill and downhill), learn how to look "through" a point with your compass**, and make prodigious use of attack points. That last one alone will be like magic for getting you where you need to be, as at camp there will almost never be a point beyond 100m from a good road you can use, or more than 300-400m from a road intersection (which then gives you an absolute map location) and if somehow you screw up you know where to quickly return to so you can re-orient and re-try.

(** I've found that most people never learn this, or at least not properly - looking "through" means that when you're lining up your azimuth, you find a near object [anywhere from 20-200m depending on brush, but further distances help your pace stay accurate] on that line and also a far one [the farther out you can cleanly pinpoint the better]. As you walk, focus on keeping those two in line with each other. That will prevent you from wandering sideways and throwing off your pace. Once you get to the near object, you should still have the far object in sight, but double-check your compass and get a new near object to use, then repeat as necessary.)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 10 at 2019 8:52 PM

2019-03-10T20:52:18-04:00

In all honesty, it really doesn’t matter. (I was part of the first group to go when it was moved from JBLM to Fort Knox [that whole move was FUBAR in every sense of the phrase]) Truth be told, it’s a great way to see how people from different programs and experiences go through things just like how the military is. The biggest thing is to always seek out advice on how others go about doing the things you’re weak in i.e. briefing and how you can integrate them into your style to make it your own. Also, do not be afraid to make mistakes and to learn from them. You will learn the most when you actually get to your first unit and experience everything firsthand. Always continue to learn.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2019 8:49 PM

2019-03-11T20:49:30-04:00

I went summer 2017, the test wasn’t that bad and if you didn’t get a GO they would have your battle buddy’s help you so you can retake it. The course is not that hard and the markers are easy to spot. More than likely there will be trails. Study the Ranger Handbook and Advance Camp handbook and you’ll be fine.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2019 12:29 AM

2019-03-12T00:29:34-04:00

I went last year to Advance camp. You just have to take one day at a time. You will get about 3 maybe 4 hours of sleep. Some nights they might give you more. Just use the roads during land navigation. The night navigation is more challenging. You won't start until about 2100/actual night time. If you have any questions, you can ask me since I went last year.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 12 at 2019 11:13 AM

2019-03-12T11:13:09-04:00

I very nearly was allowed to go when I was going Army ROTC as an undergrad, it was at Ft. Bragg at the time, I'd sprained an ankle, my run time went above limit, I wasn't allowed...that was when I'd submitted for USAF OTS, I had to apply twice, as I'd gotten a bad recommend from the ROTC faculty, I appealed it and was taken, I had to go through the program twice to get done, I was recycled once...I made the run time there by quite literally one second, I kid thee not...I called the ROTC faculty after I got back home after finishing, they were totally blown away, that was one of my very best days, I assure you...one guy I knew who'd gone through the Ft. Bragg program actually was allowed to go through Airborne and Ranger school as well, he also did something called Recondo, which I've never read much about, though I recall him mentioning it...the unit I was in used to train a good deal at West Point, we were in the barracks, the dining hall, the morning formations, the orienteering range, the obstacle course, and the rappelling cliff...the guy I mentioned actually once did a face-forward rappell down the cliff, so-called "Australian style", which totally blew my socks off, I still have the image quite clear in my mind watching him march down that cliff face first, my eyeballs practically fell out of my head, honest....

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Mar 12 at 2019 11:17 AM

2019-03-12T11:17:34-04:00

And I know this likely wasn't the proper name, evidently, however, we all called it "summer camp", at least, that was how I always heard it referred to, at any rate....

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2019 12:08 PM

2019-03-12T12:08:58-04:00

Just went this past summer. If you go in a later regiment, there should be plenty of cadet trails leading to points.

Don't try to dead reckon the course; shoot attack points from the road that surrounds the course, and use the known points given to you to to base those attack points.

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2019 3:52 PM

2019-03-12T15:52:05-04:00

I went to LDAC the first year it moved to Ft. Knox. It was fubar. My advice is to take more uniform odds and ends than is on the packing list. And have a really good, laminated TMK. It rained just about every day while I was there, and almost the entire thing was in the field.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2019 4:37 PM

2019-03-12T16:37:59-04:00

Your attitude is everything. Your reactions and demenaor under stress will reveal a lot about the cadets around you and that's generally what you're evaluated on.

My PMS had told our group of MSIIIs to take what is said and what is evaluated with a grain of salt. Obviously you should still perform to the best of your ability but also know that a lot of weight is held for the things you do on your campus.

Response by 1LT Christopher Gonzales made Mar 12 at 2019 4:46 PM

2019-03-12T16:46:17-04:00

I can tell you only from my experience as a cadet and LDAC TAC from 2011-2012.

And it's not super helpful. We experienced two different LDACs. The one we went to had few Recondos and very low "E" rates. Hell, they stopped using LTs to grade PT tests and shipped in DS's (the right thing to do anyway). The one I TAC'd, we had very few N's and I even witnessed some who I feel ought to have been, but I was overruled. They had more Recondos, more "E's".

That is all to say that your mileage may vary. Advice from yesterday may not be the same today.

What I can say that might be helpful is rely on those around you. You might get a slick sleeve in your squad. You might get a Ranger. However, good ideas aren't necessarily measured by time and bad ideas don't become better because someone with experience says it. I was former Enlisted, but I didn't always have the best COA. And I am grateful that others didn't defer to me because of my experience. Doing what's right and tactical can come from anyone.

Your terrain model kit doesn't need to be fancy. Make it functional. A solid, succinct plan kicks the piss out of a pretty one. Keep it simple. Get input. Refine. Execute.

Don't try to befriend your TAC. They've been up before you and will leave after you. They are tired. Be friendly, but an ass kisser sticks out and not in a good way.

If you have a lot of good ideas and your squad keeps picking you, you'll probably die. Before STX, share those thoughts. Write them down if you have to and keep a squad book that guides everyone. You don't want to be the difference between success and failure. Looking smart is good. Getting everyone to do well is better.

Response by LTC James McElreath made Mar 12 at 2019 11:06 PM

2019-03-12T23:06:20-04:00

You should already know that you will be peer rated by those in your group. Keep that in your mind at all times, be the Johnny on the spot when someone needs help with their assignment if someone needs a pair of underwear- give them a pair, You are no longer a person but now a member of the group with a mission. Always get the mission accomplished. Check with the cadre, after receiving a new assignment ask if there are additional things to consider (dead zones, etc), Volunteer for everything. Your peers will remember it too. Best of Luck!

Response by LTC James McElreath made Mar 14 at 2019 12:36 AM

2019-03-14T00:36:11-04:00

Land Nav. is a important part of your training. I went to Advance Camp at Lewis and let me tell you there is plenty of vegetation there. We had a day and night Land Nav. course. A portion of the class was in doors like in your class in college or in the Army map reading class. Best of Luck!

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2019 6:12 PM

2019-03-25T18:12:19-04:00

Do you know what Reg you’re going to?