Any thoughts on a senior leader sleeping at home while his Soldiers are in the field?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 13:38:51 -0400

Clarification: This was at the Company level and it was a cold night and this person didn't like the cold weather.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Mar 25 at 2014 1:43 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 13:43:18 -0400

Can we get more details? Are they undergoing chemotherapy? Pregnant? Injured? TDY? In school? There are about a thousand reasons why an individual would not be in the field..

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 2:12 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 14:12:14 -0400

Wrong answer, period.  After 28 years wearing the uniform (most of it as a Combat Engineer), there is probably no one who hates 'roughing it' more than me.   When I was a SSG, I saw the right answer being demonstrated by my Company Commander.  The two of us had to leave a field exercise for USR turn-in at BDE.  He could have enjoyed a good meal while he was away but, instead, as we were leaving the TOC tent, he reached into a case of MREs, grabbed two and tossed me one.  When I gave him a puzzled look he stated, "My guys are getting MREs for lunch, I eat MREs for lunch."  I learned a great deal about leadership in that moment. As far as roughing it outside of the Army, when my wife said she really wanted to go camping, I went and bought a 20 foot travel trailer with every bell and whistle. :)

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Mar 25 at 2014 2:44 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 14:44:05 -0400

Can you give us more details on the situation? He/she may have pulled an all nighter working on mission planning, etc. and were just power napping. Or, they could just be lazy. Hard to know which one without more contextual info!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 3:24 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:24:44 -0400

I remember this one SSG that wanted to stay at home because of a 9 month pregnant wife, and was told that was a no-go that "if something happens we will get you home". The Commander of this Unit however went home everynight and showed back up to the field every morning.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 4:13 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:13:31 -0400

Someone who does this may have rank, but they are not a leader.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Mar 25 at 2014 4:39 PM

SGT James Elphick — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 16:39:19 -0400

That leader is a No-Go at this station

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 5:08 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:08:12 -0400

This is something I was about to totally take out of context and go on a rant. What are the details of the situation? When our company went to conduct field training, the CSM and BC weren't there in the field with us. They would come drop in to see how training was going on a random basis though.

I am assuming you mean a PSG not being out there with his/her troops. I think that all leaders and Soldiers should train together, but there are also circumstances where this is not the case. I do not advocate that a PSG go out with a Soldier during Pre-Ranger training if they are preparing to go to Ranger school, for example.

Response by CSM Michael Poll made Mar 25 at 2014 5:14 PM

CSM Michael Poll — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:14:48 -0400

I will be where my Soldiers are.  I always hated it when my SR leaders would do things like this and say RHIP.  Lead by example!  If your Soldiers are chewing dirt, chew it with them, see how they will go the extra mile for you after that!

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2014 5:20 PM

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 17:20:31 -0400

There is a Bible story that tells the tale of King David stealing a man's wife, then having that same man killed on the battlefield. It begins "in the season that Kings go to war, David was at home..." I'm not gonna preach, but there is an indictment in the intro of that story. Draw your own conclusions.

Response by CSM Stuart C. O'Black made Mar 25 at 2014 8:51 PM

CSM Stuart C. O'Black — Tue, 25 Mar 2014 20:51:09 -0400

Basically this is a inflammatory comment without enough information for such a broad statement. What level? The CG when a company is in the field? I agree with the comments to little information to make a judgment. Give the scenario.

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made Apr 30 at 2014 11:25 PM

CPT Jacob Swartout — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 23:25:43 -0400

Not the way to lead from the front as a senior leader. I would only stay at home if my wife was expecting birth very soon or in the ICU. Otherwise, I would be out there at night with the Soldiers.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Apr 30 at 2014 11:45 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 30 Apr 2014 23:45:40 -0400

Any thought into this question? (I had to do it)

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2014 9:28 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 01 May 2014 09:28:20 -0400

If I see a company level leader doing that I would lose a lot of respect for them.

When I was a joe, I remember one field cycle, my 1SG would show up every morning clean and in a freshly pressed BDU uniform. (this was back in the day) I don't know if he slept out there with us or he went home every night. But he at least had a warm shower every morning and got to wear a clean uniform, while we were sweating our butts off and stinking it up in the TX heat.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made May 1 at 2014 11:53 AM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Thu, 01 May 2014 11:53:26 -0400

Your question is a bit vague so let me attempt to clarify. If the senior leader's (officer or NCO)OWN organization is in the field then the senior leader MUST be in the field (ie CO CDR/1SG whose company is in the field or BN CDR/CSM whose HHC is in the field) so as to share the unit's hardships and lead by example. If the senior leader's subordinate organization is in the field then the senior leader SHOULD be in the field for a portion of the field time (ie BN CDR/CSM who have a company (not HHC) in the field or a BDE CDR/CSM who have a BN in the field) so as to see first hand what is going on and to educate/inform leader decisions.

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made May 2 at 2014 5:24 AM

SFC Christopher Perry — Fri, 02 May 2014 05:24:33 -0400

Yet another one for the record books. This stands as an example of not poor, but pathetic leadership.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 9:03 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 09:03:52 -0400

Most of the replies are on point, if my Soldiers are in the field it's because I'm there with them. To be honest though, I only care about my Platoon. If it is Company driven training, the CO and 1SG should be there, but if not that is on them. What is important for Soldiers is that their leadership is present and competent. I couldn't care less if the BC and CSM are around, it isn't their job to care about my Soldiers and junior leaders. It is their job to care that I care about them. At the end of the day, myself and the PL will make it happen for them no matter who is around, and no on cares about the Platoon as much as I do, guaranteed.

Response by SFC Christopher Perry made May 2 at 2014 9:04 AM

SFC Christopher Perry — Fri, 02 May 2014 09:04:39 -0400

This one was really early for me. I have a tendency to be a little mean and bitter first thing, but then I am old. I took this one at face value and ran with it. What I read was that either the CO or 1SG rolled to the rear to get out of the cold for the night. Now the this presumes that it is a known fact that this was the case. Often times, as stated within the thread, there is more to it than what one sees on the surface.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 2 at 2014 11:22 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 02 May 2014 11:22:39 -0400

Any Senior Officer, or NCO, going home to sleep while his men are in the field is no leader. I never asked my men to do anything I would not do. Leadership is by example and training, this person is doing neither. You don't get to be a leader by shirking your duties, but by showing skill and authority of what you can teach your men. This man is a Pogue and Boss not a Leader! Col. Proctor and I met several times in the Jungles of Vietnam while I was out on a Search and Recon mission. He was always where his men could get to him and him to them. A fine example of a Leader.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made May 2 at 2014 4:31 PM

SSgt Gregory Guina — Fri, 02 May 2014 16:31:04 -0400

That is some crap. If my boys are cold and sleeping in the dirt well then so am I.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 4:13 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 04:13:25 -0400

If you are a Leader, your soldiers deserve having you around while they are conducting training in the field. If it is necessary for you to leave, it should not be because you do not want to be in the field with them.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 2:09 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 14:09:51 -0500

“A king does not abide within his tent while his men bleed and die upon the field. A king does not dine while his men go hungry, nor sleep when they stand at watch upon the wall. A king does not command his men's loyalty through fear nor purchase it with gold; he earns their love by the sweat of his own back and the pains he endures for their sake. That which comprises the harshest burden, a king lifts first and sets down last. A king does not require service of those he leads but provides it to them...A king does not expend his substance to enslave men, but by his conduct and example makes them free.”

― Steven Pressfield, Gates of Fire: An Epic Novel of the Battle of Thermopylae

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 1:26 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:26:22 -0500

"Blue Falcon Alert! Blue Falcon Alert! Blue Falcon Alert!"

There's no need for me to repeat what everyone else has stated. The individual in question should be relieved, on the spot and reassigned to Antartica - post haste.

'Nuff said.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2014 1:31 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:31:30 -0500

Oh boo hoo...they didn't like the cold. What a pitiful excuse to not be in the field with their soldiers. Leaders should always be doing what their soldiers are doing and with them regardless of what else is going on. Period.

Response by MAJ Dallas D. made Nov 5 at 2014 1:33 PM

MAJ Dallas D. — Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:33:17 -0500

At one point in my Career I had Battalion Commander who loved to schedule surgery during the Battalions FTX's. I will just say that BC did not have the respect of the troops.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2014 4:59 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:59:18 -0500

Where my Soldiers are, I will be unless necessity and mission dictates otherwise. How can a leader lead troops and expect their Soldiers to have respect for them if they're not out suffering the same hardships as their troops. I have absolutely zero (0) respect for any leader that uses the excuse 'RHIP' to get out of things.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 22 at 2018 9:34 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 22 May 2018 09:34:58 -0400

Damn bad leadership- you lead from the front- too cold for the leader, well hell- to cold for the troops!

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 4 at 2020 3:51 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 04 Mar 2020 15:51:46 -0500

No chance in Hell this should ever happen. Once upon a time I had a MSG be so bold as to take his section to his home because it was near by. The rest of the unit was I. The field. As 1SG I was doing my rounds checking on my Soldiers when I came upon an expando van with one person on duty when there should have been 4 per shift (the truck had heat), upon further investigation I found that the tent was empty as well. I briefed the commander and went to the individuals home as I had a sneaking suspicion. The rest will remain unstated. Suffice it to say that there were careers affected based on the blatant nature of the offense. They were warm and dry, eating a nice dinner and slumbering in the living room floor while 200 hundred others were sleeping in the maneuver area, eating MREs and pulling duty.

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 4 at 2020 4:44 PM

Maj John Bell — Wed, 04 Mar 2020 16:44:47 -0500

If any part of my command is in the field, I belong in the field with them, duty permitting.

p.s. If the weather doesn't suck, can you really call it training?