Anyone have experience running Weapons Qualification (M16/M4) with the new standards?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 00:41:13 -0400

I know the new standards do not take place until October. I am wondering if anyone has gone through a practice run. I was at an attempt to qualify with my new unit. Due to smoke and fire issues at JBLM, we never got past zero. But, after looking through the stack of zero targets, I already see that there is a lot of work to be done. I am concerned because Reserve units already have such an abundance of training time available during the year (Sarcasm) and COVID-19 based virtual battle assemblies have already stretched useful AWT opportunities way past the limit. If anyone has had a chance to do this new qualification, I am looking for some lessons learned. I read through the new dot-40 once (and will do at least another couple times) and plan on making it a NCODP class soon. One thing that disappointed me was a lack of examples of shooting issues. The older training pubs had examples of zero targets with shot groups that illustrated poor trigger squeeze, poor breathing, poor sight picture retention...etc. I wish the new pub had those examples on the new zero targets. I can still use the old examples because the problems are still the same, regardless of the background printed on the target. (Hell, I may take a blank A8 zero target and make my own examples as training aids)

One thing I already hate it the once size fits all targets. Front sight adjustments (iron sights) are 1.75 (M4) and 1.25 (M16) per grid ( each grid is 1 MOA). I guess people will have to bring calculators with them when they move their shot groups; or maybe we can get optics (I wish).

OK enough ranting. I am not saying things are all bad. I like the fact that Soldiers have to demonstrate and be graded on some basic proficiency with their weapons before putting hot metal through targets. Not sure how I feel about only having one shot at qualifying every 45 days (if you get a chance to try and shoot again before day 44, the best you can get is marksman, under the new standard). There is supposed to be a system in place to validate the range before use, but I have been on some poorly maintained ranges in my career.

Any feedback on the new qualification standards will be appreciated.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2020 8:45 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:45:47 -0400

We always shifted the POA down to compensate for actual flight of a bullet. We'd get those dot stickers you use to mark a garage sale or whatever (red, green, yellow) and place it in the bottom of the center of the target, effectively shifting the POA down to where the round would strike the target at 25m when zeroed at 300.
Qualifications improved because the round was hitting center mass, rather than high.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Sep 17 at 2020 10:09 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 10:09:26 -0400

We had a few units run through it here... Right now the average is about 10-15% qualification rates, depending on the unit type.
The MP's and Infantry hovered around 15%, the straight CSS units were closer to 10%... It's a rough transition.
After October there's going to be a LOT of Commanders sweating bullets over their marksmanship metrics.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2020 1:19 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:19:44 -0400

It's actually a bunch of nothing to worry about.
Appendix E, and table E-50:
***Units that have access to an approved simulations system complete stage 2, stage 3, and stage 4 in that system. Only units without access to an approved simulator system receive the training ammunition to conduct all stages as live-fire scenarios during qualification.***