APFT counseling/ profile/ chapter?

2020-06-16T14:28:38-04:00

I have a soldier who failed an APFT event, got on profile for 6 months, and then failed a second APFT, the argument is that because his failed APFT counseling says 90 days after he will take one and that never happened that the flag should be lifted or at the least the first test should be null and void. So what should it be?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 2:33 PM

2020-06-16T14:33:33-04:00

The first APFT is not null and void. The FLAG was put in place due to APFT failure. The FLAG will not be lifted until such time as a Record APFT is taken and passed. The Command cannot give him another Record for at least 90 days unless the Soldier WANTS to take it prior to the 90 days. If that happens, then the Soldier is to be counselled about taking the test prior to the 90 day mark. Just because they are on profile, that DOES NOT negate the failed APFT NOR the FLAG.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 3:38 PM

2020-06-16T15:38:07-04:00

Agree with SFC Livingston, 90 days is the minimal wait time unless the SM makes the request.
AR 600-8-2, 2-3 b states “Army Physical Fitness Test failure” (Flag code J). Initiate a Flag when a Soldier fails a record APFT or when, through the Soldier’s fault as determined by the commander, the Soldier fails to take the APFT within the time prescribed by existing regulations, or when directed by the commanding officer (as provided for in AR 350–1)....Soldiers with a profile effective after the APFT will remain flagged until a record APFT is passed."
AR 600-8-2, 2-9 states "Remove the Flag on the date the Soldier passes the record APFT."
The Soldier has not passed and should remain flagged.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 3:41 PM

2020-06-16T15:41:44-04:00

AR 350-1. The flag stands because the failure occurred prior to the profile. chapter for a second failure can only be done if the soldier was given opportunity to improve and correct deficiencies. IF, as this sounds like, the soldier failed APFT went on profile for 6 months and then failed another record APFT without having been given at least one diagnostic in between it will be hard to make a chapter stick since CoC did not follow guidelines.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 5:31 PM

2020-06-16T17:31:52-04:00

The 90 days can't be used if they got a 6 month temporary profile. What did the doctor put for when they could take another APFT? That's how it works now. Recovery is incorporated into the profile.

So if the SM took it after they were cleared and failed that's on them.

They failed two consecutive APFTs.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2020 8:13 PM

2020-06-16T20:13:01-04:00

Regardless of the profile length, when he failed the initial APFT, he was counseled and told in 90 days, he will take a record. The unit MUST give 90 days between records in failure cases. If he was on profile, that time still runs and regardless of the end date of the profile, he is expected to take and pass a record APFT.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 17 at 2020 2:02 AM

2020-06-17T02:02:27-04:00

The first failed APFT stands. He failed it. He got flagged. He then went on profile for 6 months. All the profile did was kick out the time for the "minimum" in which he could take a retest. Then to compound matters he failed a second APFT after having 6 months, part of which is time allotted to bring the SM up to physical readiness standards. The SM failed all the way around.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Jun 17 at 2020 7:55 AM

2020-06-17T07:55:38-04:00

The failure still stands, and the FLAG remains in place. Profile regulations now include the recovery time required for the SM to be ready and meet physical fitness requirements, in Soldier terms, the day the profile ends, he/she should be able to meet the APFT minimum requirements. There is no longer the grace period of time to condition yourself after the profile ends, that time has been allotted in the profile itself. Command is no longer "required" to provide an additional 90 days, as the profile exceeded the 90 day requirement, and included the time to heal, condition, and meet physical condition requirements. In the interest of fairness, a diagnostic should be given, and then a hard time for a record APFT to be administered, at the Commands discretion, preferably in a 4856 to document the interaction between the Command and the SM. I am extremely surprised that a chapter packet has not been already built, with all the prerequisites completed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 8:06 AM

2020-06-17T08:06:35-04:00

There are a few components to this.

1) "If a Soldier fails a record APFT, commanders may allow Soldiers to retake the test as soon as the Soldier and commander feel the Soldier is ready to test (not to exceed 90 days)"

The after failing a record APFT, the 2nd record APFT must be given WITHIN 90 days, not AFTER 90 days.

2) "An intervening medical profile does not restart the 90-day training period; however, Soldiers must have at least two times the length of the medical excusal, not to exceed 90 days in preparation for a record APFT."

This is all in 350-1.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2020 9:00 AM

2020-06-17T09:00:08-04:00

SPC Waldie....now is a good time for you to begin reading Army Regulations...start here: https://armypubs.army.mil/ProductMaps/PubForm/Details.aspx?PUB_ID=62519

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