AR 600-9, is leadership doing their part to ensure compliance?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:08:42 -0400

As a young Private fresh outta high school and joining the military I was a little out of shape to say the least. I joined at 25% body fat and 30 lbs over weight. I had to be tapped every time a pt test was done and was on the verge of getting kicked out of the Army. Until I stepped it up and got my weight under control thank you to no one but myself. Now I see all kinds of people who are obviously over weight are not on any profiles, but refuse to better themselves and have a professional appearance while in uniform. Of course there are certain things that can play a role in someone not being able to lose weight but what about having no will to fall within the Army standards and the soldier still gets away with it because the leadership doesn't do their part? It's frustrating to see a soldier unwilling to put the effort to get right and the leadership lets them slide by. How do we fix this within the military?!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 11:20 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:20:43 -0400

You're on the right path by setting the right example. Hang in there SSG Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Oct 24 at 2015 11:29 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:29:20 -0400

If you have the self pride you won't do anything about your weight or appearance. It's a shame so many young people don't care anymore

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 11:29 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:29:36 -0400

The Army ties the hands of leadership and often forces the retention of Soldiers who do not meet Army standards. Looking at the big picture, there is a need for the total number of personnel that must be maintained. If the Army, or a specific branch/MOS, is in a period of expansion or has critical shortages, "big Army" fills the seats with sub-standard Soldiers. In the reserves, there's a such a retention push that it's even more difficult than usual to out-process Soldiers who won't even come to battle assembly. PT failures seem to be getting over, as well. I suspect that on the shrinking active-duty side, this is turning around pretty sharply, however. There are probably still some that have escaped the chopping block, but unless something drastic happens, they won't for long.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Oct 24 at 2015 11:52 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:52:44 -0400

Call the shot, just as you are doing SSG Private RallyPoint Member. You will see some Leaders are more concerned with not wanting to hurt feelings because they may feel the Trooper might go to the IG or EO route while it is a failure of leadership to not enforce the standards. Those same Leaders are actually hurting those that do meet the standards because they are not calling the shot on the mediocre troops. When you have the shot, take it!

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 24 at 2015 11:54 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:54:05 -0400

I understand what you are trying to say that it's all up to the person to decide how they look like in uniform. I think the main concern is the standards itself. I can pass the pt test no problem with flying colors and still get taped. I think that the standards need to be changed. It needs to be accurate. I'm considered over weight due to having more muscle than fat in my body. It doesn't make sense to me at all. I'm just heavy for my height. 5"6 180lbs. Average 280 above pt test but still get taped. I really do think it's the standards.

But I do see obese soldiers who don't care at all and still slide due to favoritism. But that's none of my business. One day right will overcome wrong doings and it'll catch up to those that don't care. Karma will catch up!

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 12:34 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 00:34:40 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member at 31 years old, after losing 88lbs, I joined at 23% fat. For joining at my age, the max body fat required is 28%. With that amount of pounds lost, I have loose skin at my belly which makes it uncomfortable, to say the least, every time I get taped. I was just taped this last Thursday, 6 times, yes, you didn't read wrong. The first 3 times my PSG didn't know where to tape me and kept saying it wasn't fair because you can tell from the rest of my body that I do workout a lot but my belly skin just doesn't get tighter. Imaging how frustrated I get when I see somebody out of shape and I'm here working twice or three time harder just to pass the tape. I care for myself, I work for myself, I can't fix the system, less at my rank. So, until I have responsibility over someone, I'll keep working on getting myself better and showing that there's no excuses to be out of regs.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Oct 25 at 2015 9:37 AM

COL Jon Thompson — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 09:37:47 -0400

Regulations are like laws. They are only as good as the people required to enforce them actually do that. There may be a variety of reasons that leadership does not chapter someone out and there may be some things you do not see. In my last reserve unit, we had a bunch of field grade officers and senior NCOs. You could tell that many of them did not do regular PT and about a quarter of them did the 2.5 mile walk for the APFT. Yet, during the tape tests they almost all passed. So they met the Army standard there. That being said, I think that as the Army draws down, this will catch up with them and sooner or later, they will work in a unit with CSM that is no nonsense.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2015 2:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 25 Oct 2015 14:59:08 -0400

SGT Swanson,
Check it out, leaders need to give good PT Monday-Friday. But that us not enough. I am huge on PT and anyone of my guys can tell you I destroy my platoon. They love it. I love it. We take huge pride in hoe we look and how put platoon average is. But I still eat right ans go to the gym after work everyday. And I see almost my entire platoon in there working out. They realize it is on them as well. It is a small responsibility on the leader to get the soldier under control. But the soldier has to be willing also. It really is the solder responsibility to meet army standards. If your over weight get up and go work out. Go run. Leave the fat pills alone. Anyone can lose weight it is a fact. Good luck!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2015 12:41 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:41:35 -0400

I know for the reserves, there going to be kicking out a lot of floaters, especially in my company. The main with people is that for any major part in life, if someone wants change, then they'll find a reason. For me, it's the notion that I want to go further in helping others and want to join Cal Fire. The saddest thing though is the saying, "you can last a horse to water, ...".

Response by SN Greg Wright made Oct 27 at 2015 3:48 AM

SN Greg Wright — Tue, 27 Oct 2015 03:48:22 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member The military in general has gone about this issue all wrong for a long time, in my opinion. When I joined, I went to boot camp the day after I graduated high school, after a full year of varsity football and wrestling (I even had offers to play football at the college level). I was 6'2" and 215lbs. In my profile pic, here, I'm about 220. Absolutely zero problems doing any of the Navy PT (boot camp was kind of a joke, physically). And yet....the Navy had, at the time, this silly little chart that said someone 6"2' could only weigh 180 lbs. So I had to get a waiver. When I went to the doc, he shook his head, laughed, and said, 'Yeah. You'll weigh 180 lbs about 2 years after you're dead," signed, and sent me on my way. I never had a single problem with PT during my time.

I think the whole 'one size fits all' standardization is inaccurate at best, and downright unfair at worst. What it SHOULD be is common sense. When it comes time to get checked, your senior nco's and Div O's will have a good idea of what kind of shape you're in, and if they think there's a problem (ie you're not performing), then they send you to a doctor, or a panel of doctors, who can say, 'Yeah, ok this big guy doesn't fit the tape, but he's in great shape. Pass." Or even more likely for women: "She has larger hips that, combined with smaller neck, skews her measurement. But she runs xxxx distance just fine. Pass." Or, "Yeah...soldier/airman/sailor, you need to work on this." Etc.

In other words, common sense.

Response by LTC Eric Coger made Oct 27 at 2015 9:19 AM

LTC Eric Coger — Tue, 27 Oct 2015 09:19:48 -0400

Good on you for working on it and maintaining your self-discipline. There are a few HT/WT combinations that don't really get a lot of leeway or are harder than others to maintain for various reasons. BLUF: If you want it you can do it; the standard is the standard and should be enforced without exception.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Oct 27 at 2015 7:34 PM

TSgt Kenneth Ellis — Tue, 27 Oct 2015 19:34:53 -0400

I turned 18 in basic.