Are awards rank specific, such as the Meritorious Service Medal?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 10:57:17 -0400

Why is it awards certain awards are given to certain rank? I was an E5 working to pay grades above and held an E7 MTOE during a deployment in the motor pool. Come time for award recognition standing next to other E7 receiving a MSM, I was awarded an ARCOM. Someone please justify this. Nowhere in the regs. It states you have to be a certain rank.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2015 12:05 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:05:36 -0400

You are 100% correct! The problem comes from the person that is recommending you for an award, and that is a tough one to overcome.

Response by 1SG Charles Hunter made Oct 4 at 2015 12:26 PM

1SG Charles Hunter — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:26:48 -0400

I believe the concept is this: A person of higher rank is expected to do more. Exceeding basic expectations by these persons has greater impact on the success of the unit's mission than those of lesser rank. Nonetheless, I hold that the degree of achievement should be considered by the award writer and justified in the recommendation.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2015 12:29 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:29:59 -0400

This isn't the answer you're looking for. But it seems to be a common practice to award the MSM to E-7 and above and a Commendation to E-6 and below. It is a stupid practice if all have been doing the same job or involved in the same action.

From Wikipedia: In the U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force, recipients of the Meritorious Service Medal (MSM) are typically field grade officers in pay grades O-4 through O-6 (major, lieutenant colonel, colonel), senior chief warrant officers in pay grades W-3 through W-5 (CW3 to CW5, Army only), and senior non-commissioned officers (E-7 to E-9) in both the Army and the Air Force. Award of the MSM to company grade officers in pay grades O-1 through O-3 (2d lieutenant, 1st lieutenant, captain), junior warrant officers/chief warrant officers in pay grades W-1 and W-2 (WO1 and CW2, Army only), and junior NCOs in pay grades E-6 and below is rare and typically by exception.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Oct 4 at 2015 3:14 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 15:14:46 -0400

Rank does have some impact on an award, but not in a direct "E-4's will only get AAMs" kind of way. Awards are based on the level responsibility and on contribution and impact that the individual has on the unit. So, reality is that the higher rank you have, the more responsibilities you have and the greater impact you will potentially have. An E-3 is responsible for himself and his equipment. An E-8 is responsible for 100 E-3s and ALL of their equipment.

That being said, if a lower rank provides the same type of impact that is expected of a higher rank, then yes, they should be considered for the higher award too. I would have no issue awarding an E-5 an MSM if he had the same impact and contribution to the unit as the PSG or 1SG....but the reality is, that is highly unlikely.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2015 5:19 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 17:19:25 -0400

I saw one response on here that is forcing me to respond to this post...let me be clear, BN and BDE staff have NO say in what award is approved. It is a COMMAND decision. We (staff) do not even have the right to recommend approval or disapproval. We only process the award. Having said that, it appears most people are unaware that a MSM is approved by the the fist General Officer in the chain of command. If you have a SGT (cuz E5 is a pay grade, not a rank) that did the work of a more senior person, than make sure you write the award properly. Stop writing about how the SGT is a great NCO and an awesome Soldier. Give quantifiable bullets, tell the story of how the SGT impacted not only the success of the unit's mission but the success of the the higher HQ's mission or how the SGT impacted the success of other units. Write the award so that the commander WANTS to give the award to the SGT. Here is another free tip: USE SPELL-CHECK! Ok, I'm coming down from my soap box now....

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2015 5:19 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 04 Oct 2015 17:19:54 -0400

You are correct, rank should have no bearing in what award is presented for actions. I believe units do this because it takes a certain level of approval for all awards, the higher the award the higher the approval. So they don't want to take the hard right and try to explain why a SGT or SSG deserves a Bronze Star or MSM to a Division Commander. The award system has been broke for a long time.

Response by SFC David Davenport made Oct 5 at 2015 9:13 AM

SFC David Davenport — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 09:13:25 -0400

Having served briefly as an awards clerk before going to college I have some experience with this issue. There is not direct link or reference to rank in the Army's award system and regulation. The reg. basically states the level or responsibility and impact of the Soldier's actions will dictate the appropriate award. The recommender writes the award and recommends an award to be given. It is critical that the recommender write the recommendation appropriately; this has more of an impact on what is eventually awarded than the action(s) of the Soldier. The approving authority and higher levels of the chain of command have very little visibility of what a particular Soldier does on a daily basis. So yes there is some bias toward rank with respect to what award is given. But it is not directly driven by any restrictions in the regulation.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2015 11:55 AM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 11:55:01 -0400

Awards are so different by Service and even community within a service that I can't really vouch for them being rank specific.

The MSM (since you mentioned it) in the Naval Aviation community is reserved for a retiring or super star E-9 or O4/5. I've however seen some E-6s and O3s in other communities/services with more than one! The problem is there is no standardization with the awards process in general.

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Oct 5 at 2015 4:07 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 16:07:39 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member By regs no. In all reality yes. Is it fair? Definitely not. It happened to me as a SGM.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 5 at 2015 4:37 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 16:37:08 -0400

By doctrine? No. By common practice? Generally...

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 5 at 2015 9:16 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 05 Oct 2015 21:16:10 -0400

I have heard of a BN TOC receive much higher awards than the soldiers who crossed the wires on a daily basis.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2016 11:02 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:02:56 -0500

Rank doesn't determine the award, but I will admit that it does make it harder for a SGT to get an MSM vice a SFC or a MSG. IF...and that's a BIG IF...the SGT in question performed in the position of a higher rank AND excelled at the job, then it is up to the writer of that award to make sure it is up to snuff. Step one, and no offense here people, your SSG shouldn't be writing that award. If you are sending a "unconventional" award recommendation to a Major General (first general officer in the chain of command) who is a Division Commander for a SGT, you need someone writing that award who writes as a part of their profession. That means one of the Majors (S3 or XO) or the LTC (Commander) is investing personal time writing this award. I'd say Captain, but the bottom line is they may have never seen a Division staff or interacted with a 2-Star general and his close staff (the SGS for instance). If your first line supervisor isn't up to the task of writing something for a 2-star general, you will never see an MSM, even if you are a SFC-MSG. It will hit the Division Staff and be recommended for downgrade on arrival. If it's important, a MAJ or LTC needs to see it and rewrite it.

Response by GySgt Bill Smith made Aug 4 at 2016 11:27 AM

GySgt Bill Smith — Thu, 04 Aug 2016 11:27:36 -0400

HAHAHA!!! This topic always cracks me up. Military branches are so different when it comes to awards. I know E-7s and E-8s in the Marines Corps with no MSM even after retirement with multiple deployments. Being Guard side now, I know multiple E-6s and E-7s with MSM and BS and it is a common thing. When I pull into the parking lot I see like 12 licence plates with Bronze Star decals, you would think the company was in D-Day. Be happy you got an award, some people have lost the ability to walk, see, or hug their loved ones and never got shit but a Purple Heart.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2017 10:36 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Jun 2017 22:36:03 -0400

I think that the question shows the fact that the appearance of there is a minimum rank for an award

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 6 at 2017 10:51 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 06 Nov 2017 22:51:06 -0500

By the books? No. Rank is not a criteria or discriminator for awards. Off the record or unofficially? It absolutely is...

It's not uncommon, especially in a deployment zone, to find unofficial award quotas by rank floating around...

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Mar 13 at 2018 11:14 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 11:14:21 -0400

It is the stated opinion of the glorious chairborne PAC/S1 commandos, that only E6's and above rate MSM's and E7 and above qualify for LOM. I have pounded my head on that wall for years- but they hold the golden key.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 13 at 2018 7:59 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 19:59:35 -0400

Technically no, but far too many commands do skew their system.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Mar 13 at 2018 8:13 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Tue, 13 Mar 2018 20:13:37 -0400

No you are correct, but did you already have an ARCOM? What did the E7's Award recommendation say that yours didn't? Just because you did the same job doesn't mean you did the same thing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2018 8:28 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 24 Apr 2018 20:28:15 -0400

There is no justification. Its a sad reality for SMs such as yourself that put in work, but its recognised based upon your rank. If you ask me, its poor leadership due to lack of guidance from those that should be giving it. Just my humble opinion.

Response by MAJ Rene De La Rosa made Oct 10 at 2018 10:57 PM

MAJ Rene De La Rosa — Wed, 10 Oct 2018 22:57:07 -0400

SSG Janell Lord, this is a case of it is what it is. I am not disagreeing with you on this point, and I believe you have a valid argument. The higher level chain of command has their priorities and they usually award the higher medals to higher ranking personnel. They likely never consider that anyone of lower rank is out there doing the same thing as a higher ranking individual.

Response by SGT Leif Lynch made Nov 11 at 2018 9:51 PM

SGT Leif Lynch — Sun, 11 Nov 2018 21:51:55 -0500

I feel your pain. As a PFC I was put in for a MSM and the NCO that put in the award had the justified bullets: Volunteered at the location to work while I was going through a MEB, discovered network vulnerabilities that were the same ones that caused USB storage to be disabled across the DoD, rebuilt and entire training area and locked it down because of those vulnerabilities, wrote scripts to streamline the resetting of passwords. 864 CAC waivered student accounts, including scripts that would unlock any locked accounts and reset their passwords that kicked off when I recieved an email after hours with a certain email subject. All in all I had 7 bullets. He was told to resubmit it as an arcom, that they would not approve MSM for a PFC. I guess it depends on the corps you're in.

Guess I have the last laugh now. I've seen those same people on LinkedIn as an apple care tech or some other dead end job. Even had a few senior NCOs that didnt have my back when I was in contact me about a job later on. I laughed.

Response by SGT Richard Domenden made Nov 13 at 2018 4:09 PM

SGT Richard Domenden — Tue, 13 Nov 2018 16:09:54 -0500

Here's the answer to your question
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritorious_Service_Medal_(United_States)

Meritorious Service Medal (United States) - Wikipedia

The Meritorious Service Medal (MSM) is a military award presented to members of the United States Armed Forces who distinguished themselves by outstanding meritorious achievement or service to the United States subsequent to January 16, 1969.

Response by SSG Ronald Cogan made Dec 11 at 2018 1:05 PM

SSG Ronald Cogan — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 13:05:06 -0500

I received MSM as a retirement award as a SSG.

Response by CPT Brad Wilson made Jul 9 at 2019 4:56 PM

CPT Brad Wilson — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 16:56:50 -0400

As many have said how the award is written is very important. You can’t just say so and so walks on water and is bulletproof you need specifics. When I was an S1 we put out examples of bullet comment for various awards but the rule of thumb is a specific action on a specific date and how that action affected the unit and as many have said here a soldier doing the job of a soldier 2 or 3 grades above their grade and accomplishing the mission is a very important thing to mention

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Jan 31 at 2020 11:09 AM

MSG John Duchesneau — Fri, 31 Jan 2020 11:09:34 -0500

In theory and by regulation - no. In reality - yes. Its rare for an E-3 to get an ARCOM. MSM's almost never go to someone below an E-6 and they are relatively rare for E-6's. Legions of Merit are unheard of below E-8 and usually go to E-9s.

The justification is that higher ranking soldiers carry more responsibility and that is recognized by higher awards. As a result, some awards only go to soldiers of a particular rank or higher.

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made May 10 at 2020 9:27 PM

CW5 Mark Smith — Sun, 10 May 2020 21:27:23 -0400

It's two pronged. It depends upon rank and branch of service. Having served in both branches, I know the Marine Corps is far less generous than the Army. But one award in particular really bothers me, the Bronze Star. It is routinely awarded by the Army upon completion of a tour in a combat zone. Officers, Warrants, and senior enlisted are almost guaranteed a BSM. Trouble is, the BSM without the Bronze V for valor is an achievement medal and detracts from the BSM w\V. I returned from Viet Nam with 3 ribbons, which was standard for most Marines. Now I see E-2's out of Basic wearing more. The awards process does 'favor' rank for the higher awards. Ever see anyone below O-7 with a DSM? Ever see someone below E-8/O-5 with a LOM? The awards system suffers from inflation and bias based upon rank, the bias isn't necessarily intentional or unfair. With rank comes added responsibility so achievement is at a higher standard. Valor awards are based upon individual actions under combat conditions, as it should be.

Response by SGT Craig Klug made Jun 11 at 2020 11:01 PM

SGT Craig Klug — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 23:01:50 -0400

I would agree, rank has its benefits.

Response by CW5 Mark Smith made Oct 24 at 2020 12:43 PM

CW5 Mark Smith — Sat, 24 Oct 2020 12:43:59 -0400

It shouldn't, but unfortunately it does.

Response by SPC Cory Mitchell made Nov 18 at 2020 6:57 PM

SPC Cory Mitchell — Wed, 18 Nov 2020 18:57:32 -0500

It’s entirely up to the command to approve. My company commander who I really had no contact with recommended my MSM get downgraded. But the LTC, COL, LTG above him approved it. So as a SPC I received a MSM.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jun 17 at 2021 8:39 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Thu, 17 Jun 2021 20:39:17 -0400

Response by SSG William Ryan made Jan 7 at 2022 3:32 PM

SSG William Ryan — Fri, 07 Jan 2022 15:32:09 -0500

Well, there is a sort of unspoken rule. PCS, end of deployment awards etc. Rank does play a part. AAM, ARCOM, MSM, LOM are the usual suspects. Sometimes it is political. Like when I was at J2 as a SSG in Korea. You wanted to get your JSAM and JCOM from exercises, having your soldiers and yourself score perfect on PACOM exams etc. The politics comes in for your PCS move. Remember, J2 LTC's outnumber privates (hell all enlisted lol) you regularly see the 3 and 4 star and are literally 10 feet away with the Watch officer if you are in charge of the COP. So having access to the 2 star in operations upstairs is pretty common and easy to do. This is the first General officer in your Chain of Command. I watched many E-6s roll out with an MSM just by playing the politics. Of course this is a bit different at most other units but the concept still remains firm. You have to plan for these things, speak up and play the politics. The other part is you need to be seen, go above and beyond what you are doing. It sucks, it is extra work, but it does get noticed. If you aren't doing that, then you are at the mercy of RNG lol.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 7 at 2023 6:19 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Mar 2023 06:19:56 -0500

Hey bro, Drill Sergeants, who arguably make sacrifices every day and make a huge impact on the army as a whole aren’t even presented with MSM. ARCOMs and thats it. We were told if we want one, we have to go win boards, etc because that makes more of an impact on the Army and on your specific regiments than successfully training the future soldiers of the United States Army. Up to and including 250 of them for a mandatory 2 years.