Are enlisted Soldiers required to salute an Officer cadet?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 03:39:37 -0400

AR 600-25, 1-5 states who is entitled to a salute. No where in this does it say cadet (who has not received his commission).

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2014 10:09 AM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 10:09:18 -0400

SSG,
I do not think I have ever been saluted by anyone other than other cadets. I am often called "sir". I appreciate the respect that many enlisted soldiers/NCO's show but think cadets should only be shown respect that would be shown to any other person. We are not officers yet and I do not think we garner any kind of special treatment whatsoever.
Unfortunately I see a lot more distaste and disrespect for cadets, with many individuals judging based not on our character or willingness to learn but simply on our "rank".

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2014 8:12 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 20:12:39 -0400

Depends on your interpretation. During the few rare times I witnessed a cadet shadow an active duty officer I was told to render the same customs and courtesies to him that I would a commissioned officer. There were three separate times, in three separate units, I saw a cadet running around my AO and in each case I was given the same instructions.

I don't think it's explicitly stated in any reg anywhere, so the technical answer is no, but the practical answer is yes.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jul 24 at 2014 9:57 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:57:54 -0400

I did CTLT (Cadet Troop Leadership Training - finally remembered) after advanced cramp and spent 5 weeks in Korea shadowing an officer. The Bn was given similar instructions to treat us as officers. The enlisted folks would see the infamous silver "spot" on the hat and give you that quizzical, half, "do I, don't I" salute. It was pretty funny.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2014 10:31 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Jul 2014 22:31:38 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member I think it is imperative to respect the office and so also to honor the person who achieved what they have. Salute? Maybe an option for those who relish good order and respect such as all the cadets that we have here.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2014 7:52 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 07:52:12 -0400

No. I was only ever saluted as a cadet when an enlisted person was confused and didn't know what rank I was.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Jul 25 at 2014 8:27 AM

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:27:57 -0400

I am not sure about this and have had this conversation with cadets in the past who were also not sure. When I was a Warrant Officer Candidate (WOC), we were supposed to only be saluted by WOCs who hadn't yet achieved the second phase of school.

Because a cadet doesn't have a commission and technically isn't in the military, I do not think it is required to salute them. Of course, you would be showing them a courtesy in doing so, but I don't think it is required. Still, they should be greeted properly as either Sir, Ma'am, or Cadet.

Never forget, a cadet will one day become a commissioned officer and he/she will remember how they were treated by Enlisted Soldiers when they were around them. Take the opportunity to represent the Enlisted side of the house by showing the appropriate courtesy. If you feel a salute is right, go ahead with it. Remember, if in doubt, whip it out (Your hand, of course ;)

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Jul 25 at 2014 8:47 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:47:59 -0400

Im about to start a website specifically about Saluting.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2014 9:38 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:38:47 -0400

Perhaps the rules have changed since I retired....

When we had midshipmen onboard I always determined their proper title and used it - they had not earned any other title. Since there's only one salute given during the day (in the skin of the ship - inport) saluting the midshipman never occurred. As for meeting the midshipman outside the skin of the ship - well, if I was topside I was busy and I generally ignored them.

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made Jul 25 at 2014 9:48 AM

SFC Stephen Carden — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:48:06 -0400

Funny this should come up. My company has two cadets visiting right now. Here is how we handle it: I call them sir and ma'am because it is much easier than remembering their names; I do not salute them because they are not commissioned officers and I have not been ordered or "encouraged" to salute them; they do not expect salutes because they know they are not commissioned officers; they keep their mouths shut and their ears and eyes open because they are here to learn and they know it. I actually had the male cadet approach me yesterday and ask me what I expected from a brand new 2LT as a SNCO! He even took notes! I told him I expected them to ask for directions to where they are supposed to be because we don't have LTs in my MOS:-) Seriously, he seemed very interested in how he should behave as a 2LT. Of course, he is prior enlisted, so......

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2014 9:58 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 09:58:47 -0400

I will render the proper address for an officer "Sir" or "Ma'am", and treat them with respect due an officer, but do not salute. When I was going through Traditional OCS the pinnacle moment/goal was to get that first salute at commissioning. ROTC may be different, but if I was a cadet it would seem to dilute the importance of my first salute if I was constantly getting them as a cadet.

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Jul 25 at 2014 10:08 AM

PFC Zanie Young — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:08:38 -0400

Easier to be confused and salute than doubt and not salute...

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Jul 25 at 2014 10:28 AM

MAJ Jim Woods — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 10:28:55 -0400

Cadets and midshipmen generally hold training ranks equivalent to their branch's enlisted ranks during their first three years of training and officer-equivalent ranks during their senior year, except in the Air Force where they hold officer-equivalent rank during their junior and senior years. In addition, a small amount of NROTC midshipmen 2/C may hold officer ranks, limited by the amount of available billets. Cadets or midshipmen holding cadet-enlisted rank must salute cadet or midshipman officers within their own branch of the service. At the service academies, they hold similar ranks (generally for the first two years, they hold simulated low enlisted ranks, then in the third year, senior enlisted ranks, and in the final year, officer ranks). However, at the academies and some ROTC units, it is not customary for cadets or midshipmen to salute each other regardless of rank, nor will they salute ROTC cadets senior to them. All cadets and midshipmen are required to salute commissioned officers regardless of branch.

Per Army regulation, since cadets will serve in officer positions, enlisted personnel are encouraged to salute cadets and address them as "Sir" or Ma'am" or by their title and surname.

Response by CSM Mike Maynard made Jul 25 at 2014 11:00 AM

CSM Mike Maynard — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:00:55 -0400

1) AR 600-25 states salutes are exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted - Cadets are neither officers or enlisted

2) If Cadets are authorized salutes, why would they have a "First Salute" ceremony at their commissioning?

3) AR 600-20 states Cadets will be referred to as Mister, Miss or Cadet

4) Cadets are not paid E5 pay, they are given a monthly stipend

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 25 at 2014 11:50 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 11:50:02 -0400

If a cadet is saluted as a cadet then doesn't the whole "First Salute" thing lose some of it's meaning?

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Jul 25 at 2014 3:16 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 15:16:52 -0400

A cadets overanxious reaction to being snubbed by someone they perceive as junior to them got him an answer he wasn't expecting from me once. I was coming out of the PX on Fort Drum and he followed me to confront me about not saluting him.

Q: Why didn't you salute me?
A: Why should I?
Q: Do you know what this means (Silver disc on his cover)?
A: A target for some young sniper or other combat arms individual to use to take you out.

He just walked away.

Response by CW2 Geoff Lachance made Jul 25 at 2014 7:10 PM

CW2 Geoff Lachance — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 19:10:11 -0400

No!

Cadets are trainees. When I was going through various schools we were required to take off our rank. As a warrant officer, I was in training with lieutenants, captains, SGM's down to SPC's. We were all called trainees period. No salute was warranted. We knew each other by name. Gained a lot of camaraderie and individual respect.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 25 at 2014 7:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 25 Jul 2014 19:11:41 -0400

Well, consider this scenario: It's my first day at Officer Candidacy School. I'm basically fresh out of AIT. You are a SFC, should you salute me?
I was in an Officer Prep course for two years...with both senior enlisted and brand-new troops. I wore, as a senior POC, an OCS tab. I feel in no way should I have been saluted. I hadn't yet commissioned!
I have never saluted a WOC, cadet, or Officer Candidate. I do, however, extend military courtesy by calling them, "Candidate" or "Cadet".
I think it's a question of simply being professional.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2014 1:31 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 01:31:51 -0400

I was told by the CO of the company that I did CTLT with for the summer that he would not mandate that his Soldiers would salute me. Rather if they wanted to and thought I deserved it they could. However, they were to address me by Sir, Cadet Maurelli, or Mr. Maurelli.

I was very proud when the PSG saluted me. At first to be honest I turned around thinking the PL was behind me. I am glad that I earned the respect of the PSG to be saluted.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 26 at 2014 11:41 AM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Jul 2014 11:41:36 -0400

Personally I would not salute them unless told to do so by the 1SG (which has happened).

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2014 3:26 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Jul 2014 15:26:26 -0400

I would say definitely not. Even though the cadets will eventually become an officer, they are not one yet. That was something that was made very clear to me when I was a cadet and it was perfectly fine with me and it made sense. Until you are actually an officer, you should not expect to be treated like one. This includes all the "perks" that comes along with it, i.e. saluting, being addressed as "sir" or "ma'am"

Response by SPC David S. made Jul 29 at 2014 10:42 PM

SPC David S. — Tue, 29 Jul 2014 22:42:46 -0400

As a cadet at the USAFA we only saluted other cadets or officers. However many enlisted did often mistake our epauletts as those of a commissioned officers. As a courtesy for the respect I would return the salute and respond with an "as your where". One time a major saluted me from about 15 yards out. It was dark and I was a man child at 6'5" and 250lbs. He was not amused by the circumstances. It did happen but in error.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2014 8:51 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 08:51:26 -0400

GHOST: Hell it very simple, walk over to poor guy or gal, shake his or her hand. "Welcome to Platoon cadet" In next two weeks, your going to learn about 19k / Tanks" "My TC will teach you everything's you need to know about Tanks' and "most of all, we're going to have so much fun doing it" "Cadet, we're going out to night to get drunk" "Welcome to family cadet, get to know your men" "Hey where my dam donut and coffee" Every year, I get one cadet from West Point to join my Platoon during gunnery at FT Stewart, GA. These are our future leaders. I treat them like officer, respect and most of all I let him or her to learn what NCO is all about. I never salute any cadets, so do my men.

Response by SSG Jim Handy made Jul 30 at 2014 9:27 AM

SSG Jim Handy — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 09:27:14 -0400

When I was at Ft. Benning we used to get cadets during the summer. They were there to learn how our section functioned, not fulfill a leadership role. They were treated with respect, but not as if they had a position higher than anyone else in the section. They didn't give orders and they didn't make any decisions. If there was 4 privates and that cadet in a situation where someone had to make a decision, that decision would fall on the highest ranking private, not the cadet. They should be treated respectfully but not as someone who was in our chain of command. They were students, there to learn and observe, so that one day they could be good officers who DID deserve that salute.

Response by Sgt Tim Hurst made Jul 30 at 2014 10:40 AM

Sgt Tim Hurst — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 10:40:26 -0400

Negative, A Cadet until Graduation has not earned that honor.

Response by COL Roger Lintz made Jul 30 at 2014 11:10 AM

COL Roger Lintz — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 11:10:40 -0400

Cadets should be addressed the same as Warrant Officers as either Mister or Ms until they officially receive their commission. Until then they are only in training and should not be addressed as sir or ma'am nor saluted. Who besides another cadet or cadre recognizes cadet rank anyway, one pip versus three pips? In my humble opinion.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jul 30 at 2014 1:07 PM

SGT Richard H. — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 13:07:03 -0400

I had this conversation with a Cadet once, after about a week of his being attached to my platoon for training (whatever they call their "summer camp")
Him: "Sergeant, when are you going to salute me?"
Me: "Cadet, when you are commissioned as an officer."
Him: "Do you know what this silver disc means?"
Me: "Yes Sir, it means that when you finish college, you will join the Army in a capacity that warrants salutes"

Response by COL Randall Stagner made Jul 30 at 2014 1:09 PM

COL Randall Stagner — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 13:09:44 -0400

Response by SCPO Tony Ramey made Jul 30 at 2014 2:51 PM

SCPO Tony Ramey — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 14:51:12 -0400

Mid-Shipman & Cadets are students, they are not a commissioned officer and therefore do not warrant a salute. The Navy has traditions that are unique to the Navy and Marine Corps, we don't salute indoors except when relieving the watch on the bridge of a ship or quarterdeck. And if the Sailor or Marine is wearing a guard/duty belt and standing watch inside a ship, they will sometimes salute an officer. But this is a tradition and not a rule. The military has many traditions and unless a person has served in uniform, the traditions and rules may be difficult to understand.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2014 5:20 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 17:20:29 -0400

Cadets should not be saluted. I am currently at FT Bragg shadowing a Major and I am respected as if I already were a Lieutenant. They address me as ma'am or cadet and that is perfectly alright by me, but I still have one more school year to go and I want to fully earn the right to be saluted.

Response by CW4 Gordon Eatley made Jul 30 at 2014 5:38 PM

CW4 Gordon Eatley — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 17:38:45 -0400

Have to laugh, As A Warrant officer Candidate (WOC) in US Army flight school, I wore WOC brass. I has Officers fail to return my salute, thinking I was in ROTC or some other military prep school. Also I was given the status of E-5 while attending the school and never expected to be saluted except by other WOC's when I became a senior WOC.

Response by CW4 Gordon Eatley made Jul 30 at 2014 5:40 PM

CW4 Gordon Eatley — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 17:40:50 -0400

Have to laugh, As A Warrant officer Candidate (WOC) in US Army flight school, I wore WOC brass. I had Officers fail to return my salute, thinking I was in ROTC or some other military prep school. I was given the status of E-5 while attending the school and never expected to be saluted except by other WOC's when I became a senior WOC.

Response by CPT Chase Sanger made Jul 30 at 2014 6:24 PM

CPT Chase Sanger — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:24:29 -0400

When I was a Cadet doing CTLT at Fort Drum, the Battalion Commander put out a memo saying that all of the cadets would be saluted. Not saying it was wrong or right, thats just what happened. When we had a few cadets come through last summer at my Battalion in the 82nd, they were not saluted. I suppose it just depends on the local commander, as I think someone has already mentioned.

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made Jul 30 at 2014 6:58 PM

SGT Jay Ehrenfeld — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 18:58:23 -0400

Correct the only time they are salute is when they are with commission officer, and they are not required to jump on soldiers when they refuse to salute to them. They are an enlisted until they are commission they received and E6 paid when they are on active duty for two weeks

Response by 1SG Jacob Baty made Jul 30 at 2014 7:08 PM

1SG Jacob Baty — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 19:08:16 -0400

The answer is no! That is all.

Response by SSG John Bacon made Jul 30 at 2014 7:09 PM

SSG John Bacon — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 19:09:53 -0400

Not no but HELL no!! A Cadet has not graduated to the level of an officer in my opinion they are glorified college students.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2014 7:56 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 19:56:59 -0400

When we conducted CTLT at Ft. Bliss last year the OPORD stressed we were encouraged to have the hosting Commands have the Enlisted Soldiers salute the Cadets as they were to be serving as PL's for the duration they were there. I had previously not saluted Cadets prior to this experience.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 30 at 2014 9:02 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 21:02:10 -0400

I was always under the impression that the salute was an honor reserved for only those that had taken the oath of office. I never saluted a cadet, nor would I have, while enlisted.

Response by MAJ Raymond Miles made Jul 30 at 2014 10:24 PM

MAJ Raymond Miles — Wed, 30 Jul 2014 22:24:35 -0400

I've been out of he Army since 1992. But, when I completed my Senior ROTC Summer Camp in 1973, I was assigned to a Basic Training Battalion at Ft Dix, NJ for 2 weeks of Advanced Officer Training. I wore the TRADOC patch on my left shoulder, all the standard US Army and Name Tapes on my fatigue uniforms, and wore my ROTC Cadet Rank insignia on my cap and lapels of my fatigues. The Regular Army Cadre were briefed to address me as Cadet or Mister LastName. Obviously, I addressed the cadre as Sergeant, Private, Captain, etc. In those 2 weeks, I picked up the nickname of Meatballs because I wore the 3 silver discs of an ROTC Cadet Captain. They never called me Meatballs to my face but my cadre confidente' kept me aware of all the goings-on!!

Response by SPC Richard White made Jul 31 at 2014 4:43 AM

SPC Richard White — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 04:43:20 -0400

As one who was a Cadet not once did I get a salute from enlisted personnel.In my opinion you should be saluted once you are commissioned and not before then.I have been on the flip side of the coin and sometimes a pvt. will know more than a cadet and they deserve more respect in my book.

Response by Capt Al Parker made Jul 31 at 2014 5:55 AM

Capt Al Parker — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 05:55:17 -0400

Interesting comments, back a few years When I was in The Air Force OTS program we had OT 2nd Lt, OT 1st Lt, etc with the ranking Officer Training held the rank of OT Col. We received salutes from lower ranking OT's but not Active Duty or Reserve troops. We were all paid at the E5 level, I was an active duty E5 when selected for OTS so my pay did't change. It was a little disconcerting when we were commissioned as 2nd Lt's for real, all the real live enlisted came out to the ceremony to salute us and GET a dollar which was the custom for the official 1st salute. While in OTS we were required to salute ALL officers and if the vehicle they were in was identified as an officers car we were required to salute it. It was called discipline then, I don't know what they call it now.

Response by 1LT Anthony Piccone made Jul 31 at 2014 8:02 AM

1LT Anthony Piccone — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 08:02:12 -0400

Frankly I am a bit surprised that there is so much consternation about saluting a cadet. True, cadets "are in training to be officers" as a scholarship ROTC cadet and enlisted before that (ARNG), I never once expected anyone to salute me, but I trained with some of the best NCO's I ever met and every single one of them "saluted" out of respect, without question or disdain. I didn't feel I deserved it yet but it instilled confidence in me that soldiers who had boots with more time in service than I did, did it anyway. I will tell you that when a CSM with 7 purple hearts, SF/Ranger tab and Master Blaster wings salutes you, its both invigorating, humbling and builds a future young officers confidence beyond belief - they truly know they are on their way towards earning something special and meaningful. At least it did for me.

Response by SGT Lee Hopkins made Jul 31 at 2014 10:14 AM

SGT Lee Hopkins — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:14:56 -0400

When at FT Hood we had a bunch of ROTC Cadets visit. I did not salute a "Capt" you talk about getting bent out of shape.
I told the piss ant that i joined the army before he was out of middle school and have been an E5 longer then he has been in Collage.

Response by SPC Clifton Sommer made Jul 31 at 2014 1:35 PM

SPC Clifton Sommer — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 13:35:19 -0400

When I was a Midshipman (NROTC) I was called to account for not saluting the ROTC Brigade Commander (a cadet). I politely asked if I could see his ID, then pointed out to him that his rank as shown on his ID was PVT. I produced my ID and showed him that MY rank was Midshipman, a Naval rank that falls between WO1 and WO2. I then told him if anyone should be saluting it was him, but not to worry, I wouldn't insist upon it, and walked away.

Response by SPC Kyle Williams made Jul 31 at 2014 3:50 PM

SPC Kyle Williams — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 15:50:05 -0400

When i was in basic training there was a enlisted soldier who was going straight from basic to OCS, on the last day of basic training she was actually promoted to the rank of E-5. So at least in the army a person who is going to OCS directly from basic is in fact promoted to SGT and given that pay for that rank.

Response by SP6 Charles Shepard made Jul 31 at 2014 4:33 PM

SP6 Charles Shepard — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:33:05 -0400

Why in the world would I salute a Lt. Dime? They had no commission or warrant. My Army National Guard had them assigned individually to our Platoon Leaders, who often passed them to us platoon or section sergeants. We taught them common skills, harassed them a lot and ignored their suggestions as suggestions. We took their suggestions as "educable moments". After all, these were potential future leaders.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Jul 31 at 2014 4:41 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:41:14 -0400

At last blush when I was in, ROTC scholarship cadets were in the USAR as an E-1.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Jul 31 at 2014 4:46 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:46:46 -0400

Then there was the time I executed a perfect left-handed salute and completely confused the 2LT...

Or, wore a trenchcoat and carried a briefcase - I was always saluted even though I was an E-3.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2014 9:39 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 21:39:36 -0400

SSG Private RallyPoint Member, only if it's Cadet 2LT saluting Cadet 1LT as per CPT Private RallyPoint Member's infamous post

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Jul 31 at 2014 9:49 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 21:49:22 -0400

Man I bet this will go on and on like Lts saluting.. I'll say this, the fact this is even being debated further shows the deep seated subtle contempt the commissioned corps has for enlisted. Many may not even know it is there. It is almost like “white privilege.” The fact that AR 600-20 states a cadet would assume command before the 1SG (though a very unlikely chain of events would have to occur) is both insulting and degrading but the fact remains that it is codified in the regulation. That the Army sees an early 20 something who has yet to graduate as having a more developed and thus more valuable decision making ability than a senior NCO with decades of experience speaks volumes. We’re enlisted swine and they won't ever let you forget it.

A buddy of mine who manages a group of architects suddenly started having attitude issues with one of his employees. One of the other guys said that he me found out he was a former NCO. He asked, “Yeah so?” The other dude was a former officer. They had to have a come to Jesus meeting. Even the Navy rates Midshipmen as the equivalent to PO3s (as explained to me by a SCPO) and they are far more aristocratic than the Army.

AR 600-25 states: Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), the commissioned corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service entitled to the salute.
Nowhere 600-25 does it mention saluting Cadets.

A Commander can order you do many things but breaking the law or violating regulations is not within his or her preview.

Response by CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 31 at 2014 10:11 PM

CPT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Jul 2014 22:11:48 -0400

When I was a Cadet, I was always referred to as "Sir", except by my 1SG who liked to simply call me "Ca-dot". It was not required to salute me, but I was saluted anyway out of the respect I earned while serving as a Platoon Leader.

Response by MSG Martinis Butler made Aug 1 at 2014 4:51 AM

MSG Martinis Butler — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 04:51:25 -0400

First of all this is a great question! I totally agree with following the Regs. Sure the Regs never state that we should or should not salute a cadet. As a Senior Non-Commisioned Officer I am here to set the example for the lower enlisted Soldiers as well as those Jr. Leaders (officers). Those cadets are on orders and are sent to active duty units to receive training , learn and serve in the roles as that platoon leader. If I believe in up holding the standard and sure we know we can add too but not take away why wouldn't I ensure that my Soldiers as well as myself set a standard to show these young cadets what right looks like, that good "Order and Discipline" that we are known for as NCO's and salute that cadet. When your in that position as a platoon leader why shouldn't we treat them as such. If we give them that foundation as cadets and show them what right looks like then as they maneuver through the ranks from 2nd LT and up they would appreciate what we bring to the table. IT STARTS OFF WITH THE SMALL THINGS. By saluting would not set you back so why not salute? Ex. the 2nd LT serving as that Battery Commander you still give him that same respect simply because of his assumption of Command orders why not render the same salute and respect for that cadet who's on orders to serve as that platoon leader.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2014 7:19 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 07:19:32 -0400

So what I'm seeing in this thread is, Army regulations do not require enlisted to salute cadets, nor do they say that cadets are entitled to a salute. However, some officers would like to order their enlisted to salute cadets. That looks like an attempt to pretend cadets are part of some social elite, rather than quasi-civilians in training to be officers. Thankfully, both on active duty and in the reserve, I have never been in a unit that thought cadets deserved special treatment.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2014 7:46 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 07:46:50 -0400

Correct. A cadet is not yet a duly comissioned military officer. Are you going to salute the high school student in JROTC?

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Aug 1 at 2014 11:24 AM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 11:24:41 -0400

Also, if the Army wanted enlisted to salute cadets, they would have included their ranks or at least mentioned it in the IET Smartbook issued in basic training.

Response by SGT Mike Kennedy made Aug 1 at 2014 1:27 PM

SGT Mike Kennedy — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 13:27:36 -0400

As an instructor at the 'Expert Infantry School' in Bad Kissingen, Germany, 1962-63, we had Senior Cadets from West Point come to the school. It was a first. Our School Commander, Col. Whatshisname, told us they were not officers and we were to address them as 'Mister' Maggot...........
SgtMike ....7th CAV Regiment

Response by MAJ Derrick J. made Aug 1 at 2014 2:51 PM

MAJ Derrick J. — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 14:51:24 -0400

When I was in ROTC, I was an SMP soldier and was paid the E-5 rate, which was no change for me anyway since I was enlisted prior.

Also, enlisted tended to salute me even though I was a "chrome zero." I knew it wasn't required, but because the soldiers knew me (and I'm tall and an imposing figure LOL) they just did it anyway. I always tended to get that response from most enlisted on post.

Response by LtCol Norman Stahl made Aug 1 at 2014 6:00 PM

LtCol Norman Stahl — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 18:00:32 -0400

It is different in the naval services: Midshipmen at the U.S. Naval Academy are not E5's; Midshipman is an official rank between WO1 and CWO2. {Brackin, William L. (1991). Naval Orientation (NAVEDTRA 12966)}

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2014 7:54 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 19:54:22 -0400

One of my soldiers asked me this question. I asked him a question in return... "Is the cadet an Officer?" His response was "No, he's training to be an officer. He's not an officer yet." I smiled and said "That's your answer".

A cadet could go through the course and fail out before graduating... We enlisted were never called "Soldiers" until we finished Basic Combat Training. We were simply "Privates" until the course was completed.

Response by CPT Michael Moffeit made Aug 1 at 2014 10:51 PM

CPT Michael Moffeit — Fri, 01 Aug 2014 22:51:04 -0400

No! If a Cadet ever demands a salute from an enlisted SM, that person should be allowed to curb-stomp said Cadet.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 1:41 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 13:41:47 -0400

Let's see should an enlisted soldier salute a cadet whose no more than an IET soldier?.....mmmmmmm, should I walk up to a CSM and call him by his first name?

Response by SPC Marshall Douglas made Aug 2 at 2014 1:54 PM

SPC Marshall Douglas — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 13:54:02 -0400

As a United States Army Military Policeman at Ft. Bliss, Tx. in 1976 we did not salute ROTC cadets, nor was it expected, required, suggested, requested or recommended.

Response by SGT Patrick Herrera made Aug 2 at 2014 2:57 PM

SGT Patrick Herrera — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 14:57:17 -0400

ive never had to salute a cadidiot or aka sir dot hell the President don't even return salutes when given a saute so why the fuck should we salute a cadidiot

Response by MAJ Jeff Coulter made Aug 2 at 2014 7:04 PM

MAJ Jeff Coulter — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 19:04:52 -0400

I've experienced this both ways. While in basic, we had USMA cadets assisting our Drill Sergeants. We had to call them "drill cadet" which I found to be pretty stupid, but we did not salute them. Fast forward a year to AIT where we had ROTC cadets running around. We were told to salute them and call them "sir." I strongly disagree because they are not officers and may not achieve commissioning. It also tends to inflate their already large heads.

Response by Sgt Andy Miller made Aug 2 at 2014 7:35 PM

Sgt Andy Miller — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 19:35:15 -0400

they are not active duty or reserve "officers" they have not completed "boot camp" "OCS" or "the basic school" (for warrant officers) they are college kids in a military environment, they have not "EARNED" a salute, salutes are reserved for commissioned officers . warrant officers, and even between enlisted in formations and guard settings. after 20 + yrs active duty in the Marine Corps, I would have a problem "giving" this " earned " custom of showing respect. the only other person who is "saluted" is the person receiving the flag at a funeral ceremony. ( it could be argued that you are saluting the flag) ( the 18 that I performed in my heart I SALUTED the recipient and the flag. Semper Fi

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2014 8:05 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Aug 2014 20:05:26 -0400

Obvious answer to this is no.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2014 1:53 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 01:53:33 -0400

I've honestly always been stupefied about this conversation, and this thread in general. I also have no idea what the "right" answer is. Reading through the replies, its clear that there is much misinformation, varying application of applicable regulations, and etc.

I completed cadet troop leader training with 25ID in Hawaii. I was treated as an officer, saluted, called sir, and served as a platoon leader for month. Learned a great deal from the NCOs and Soldiers, especially from the PSG. It may have been fortuitous that the battalion chain of command expected cadets to be treated as officers, especially as over the years I've served with NCOs and Soldiers from that battalion, and I recall how professionally they acted. Now, had they been intentionally disrespectful or treated me poorly simply because I was a cadet, my perception/perspective would likely have been much different later on. Thus, I'd encourage NCOs and Soldiers to remember that a cadet today may likely be an officer in your chain of command tomorrow, and that officers in your current chain of command were also cadets at one point. Perhaps focusing on helping cadets grow professionally vs. worrying about whether to call them sir/ma'am or salute them would be a better use of our collective energy. For cadets, don't forget that you may very well serve with the NCOs and Soldiers you interact with as a cadet, and they'll remember how professionally/unprofessionally you acted.

Now, for fun, at West Point, fourth class/freshmen/plebes are/were taught, tongue-in-cheek:
"What do Plebes rank? (ie, who do plebes outrank?) ------ The Superintendent's dog, the Commandant's cat, the waiters in the Mess Hall, the Hell Cats, the Generals in the Air Force, and all the Admirals in the whole damned Navy." But, unless the Corps has changed substantially in the last 14 years, NCOs and Soldiers at West Point don't salute cadets there or call them sir/ma'am. However, they do treat cadets with respect.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2014 3:11 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 03:11:31 -0400

Personally I would salute them if they are respectful, and say "Good Morning, Mr/Miss." If they are just jerking around and act stupid, then I wold say nothing, and if they tried to force me to salute, I would tell them to F . . . off.

Response by PO2 David Kitchens made Aug 3 at 2014 8:58 AM

PO2 David Kitchens — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 08:58:47 -0400

Any officer cadet is still just a cadet. They have not received their commission yet. IF and WHEN they do, then and only THEN should they receive the respect due to their position.

Response by Lt Col Bubba Edwards made Aug 3 at 2014 8:59 AM

Lt Col Bubba Edwards — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 08:59:44 -0400

Saluting is a way of acknowledging each other. Having been enlisted and an officer, I find this to be nothing more than counting pissants on a pinhead. We have more pressing issues ladies and gentlemen. First, be proud of who you are and the traditions that you a apart of in todays (it's all about me) world. You are a minority of elite in a society that flip a casual, "Thank you for your service," have little if any idea of the sacrifice you make daily. Second, you have and never will be paid what you're value is to those you stand and protect. And finally, the polotocians in Washington will forget you and what you have sacrifice because they have no inkling of what you do on a daily basis while they pontificate their personal agendas from the halls of Congress that you, through your sacrifice, protect and defend against all enimies, foreign and domestic. Render the greeting to each other knowing that it is only permited by you the few who have taken the oath. Not even the President of the United States of America is required to retun a salute. That is reserved to those who serve or are retired from the Armed Forces of these United States of America.

Response by Lt Col Bubba Edwards made Aug 3 at 2014 9:00 AM

Lt Col Bubba Edwards — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 09:00:21 -0400

Rendering and returning a salute is something I miss as a retired officer. Damn have that privilege today.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2014 2:41 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 14:41:09 -0400

As a Cadet at the ROTC Basic Course, I was absolutely NOT treated as an officer -- especially by the Drill Sergeants who struggled not to say "Private." No salutes, nothing.
As a Cadet at the ROTC Advanced Course, cadre treated me as merely a Cadet but non-cadre from around the base mostly treated me as if I was a LT, even though there was no doubt they knew I was not yet. Salutes were common, but not always.
As a Cadet in the ROTC, years MS-3/4, the cadre intentionally treated all of us as LTs in every way EXCEPT salutes from enlisted, including that they'd call us "Sir/Ma'am" in most cases. The "Sir/Ma'am" was more common as an MS-4.
As a Cadet doing additional duty with a regular unit, I was treated as a LT by everyone except some of the Warrants, who tended to derisively call me the dreaded "Third Lieutenant."
As a LT, when I worked with Cadets, I tried to treat them as one of the LTs as much as possible, and would not require a salute from them but would absolutely return one that was rendered.
After making CPT and now MAJ, I have continued to treat them as essentially a LT, just one that's in training -- in essence, I look at a Cadet much the same way as I do a butter-bar that's pre-Officer Course.

I found that the differences can be pretty extreme from place to place. You never know what to expect in how Cadets are treated in the local environment. I usually tell Soldiers that you don't have to salute or call them by salutations, but if you think they're doing a good job it's a good way to subtly honor them, and I tell LTs that they are peers in everything but title, so don't go all crazy on them for acting like one even though they aren't one yet.

Response by SGT Allen Moses made Aug 3 at 2014 7:23 PM

SGT Allen Moses — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 19:23:29 -0400

yes they or officer

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 3 at 2014 10:00 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 22:00:58 -0400

Cadets are training to be officers, I understand this may upset some people but its a fact of life. The standard used to be that any cadet assigned to shadow an officer AC, NG or Reserve, wore 1 silver dot (spot, pip or whatever name it goes by) so there was no confusion and the "rank" was standardized. Yes the letter of the law may state that you don't have to salute a cadet, call them sir or ma'am, etc. but I thought there was more tolerance out there than what I am seeing posted. Fortunately for me when I was a cadet, the units that sponsored me and their enlisted personnel from CSMs on down showed the class and courtesy to treat me and my fellow cadets with the courtesy, respect and understanding befit an officer in training and IAW the regs. Not everyone may have agreed with it and there were quite a few laughs at my expense I'm sure, but it was all part of the experience and learning process. If a cadet is acting out of place and over their pay grade then it is up to their sponsor to correct their actions and behavior.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2014 2:11 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 02:11:15 -0400

the do not rate a salute for rank but may rate it for watch ie if they qual OOD for the quarter deck but then you are saluting the position not the rank.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2014 2:38 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 14:38:35 -0400

This whole discussion has been an interesting read. However, there is an assumption that Cadets become officers, which we all know is not always the case

Response by SN Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 10:39 AM

SN Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 10:39:53 -0400

If the cadet is still enrolled in the academy, no you are not required to salute him/her. However, you can salute anyone of any rank. But are only REQUIRED to salute officers and CWOs

Response by Cpl Rick Kimbrell made Aug 5 at 2014 8:28 PM

Cpl Rick Kimbrell — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 20:28:23 -0400

No, they aren't even in yet therefore they do not get the same customs and courtesies afforded a commissioned officer

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 10:01 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 22:01:24 -0400

I witnessed a Midshipman vociferously dressing down a junior Sailor in front of his fellow students at Naval Station Norfolk a couple of years ago for not saluting him.

I walked over and he stopped. I asked him when he was graduating college. He told me it was the following year. I then told him: "When you graduate and earn your commission this Sailor and I will render you a proud and proper salute. But until then your job is to get training, experience, and good grades. It is NOT to get salutes, Timmy. You're dismissed, son. Carry on."

"Aye aye, Chief," was all he could muster as he and his fellow Midshipmen sheepishly walked on to the galley.

Maybe I could have handled that more professionally, but I was a little too peeved at this kid's chutzpah to let it slide. I hope it didn't make him one of the old Annapolis ring-knockers who have nothing but disdain for enlisted Sailors and hate every member of the Chief's Mess.

What I do hope is that that experience humbled him. I hope it made him think about how to treat people right so his influence positively impacts his Sailors and his command. I hope it made him a better officer.

But no.....enlisted personnel are not required to salute students. Sorry for taking the scenic route to that answer. :)

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 11:16 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 23:16:00 -0400

as an SMP cadet right now, I would never expect someone to salute me even if the AR said I was entitled. I am no longer considered enlisted technically but I am also not an officer. I am not "SIR" yet, and have not even remotely earned the right to be saluted.

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Aug 6 at 2014 9:58 AM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:58:39 -0400

Let's extend this logic out a little more: Should enlisted stand at Parade Rest when interacting with Cadet NCOs? If no, please explain the difference.

Response by PO2 Kyle Spiro made Aug 6 at 2014 12:05 PM

PO2 Kyle Spiro — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 12:05:35 -0400

Cadets are not yet commissioned and therefore have no rank. They're lower than an E-1. NO SALUTE!

Response by SSgt Eric Robinson made Aug 6 at 2014 7:42 PM

SSgt Eric Robinson — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 19:42:02 -0400

They DO NOT rate a salute. They are technically not even in the military yet. Cadets rate lower than an enlisted in boot camp.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2014 10:20 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 09 Aug 2014 22:20:34 -0400

You can piss and moan regulations until you're blue in the face. Regardless of not needing too, you have the opportunity to shape and mold the opinions of future leaders of the military. Take advantage of it. if popping a salute is too painful for you out of respect, (or staying out side for colors instead of running inside) maybe you should rethink your career decisions.

Response by 1SG Rich Martinez made Aug 10 at 2014 4:59 PM

1SG Rich Martinez — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 16:59:31 -0400

A cadet is not an Officer nor a Warrant Officer so you do not have to salute them. I have had to correct some of my officers who told the cadets that enlisted needed to salute them.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 29 at 2014 5:38 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:38:14 -0400

I always got saluted by the junior enlisted when I wore my "ca-dot" during ROTC when I went to NSTP and other trainings. But I think it was because it resembles a black oak leaf from far away. lol

Response by SSG John Erny made Sep 29 at 2014 5:47 PM

SSG John Erny — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:47:38 -0400

Correct, they are not commissioned! Further more ROTC students should get the Full NCO treatment unless they are prior enlisted. Unless mentored properly ROTC's tend be lack luster! I seen a grouchy Vietnam Veteran and MSgt. Destroy a group of them on their first day, no hair cuts, not shaved, etc.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2014 3:54 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 15:54:28 -0400

In the Air Force the answer was definitely no because we were E3's in the IRR. Although we wore the officer hat with a shiny ROTC device. It was not uncommon to get saluted because they saw shiny braid and something silver in place where rank would be.

I believe the NAVY on the other hand did require their enlisted to salute midshipman at least when I was going to school. And the odd ball thing is even officer candidates that are not midshipman have to salute their school mates even though they are in theory in the same training environment. The explanation was that the officer candidate was still and AD Navy enlisted sailor just wearing an officers uniform. I always thought that was odd because they made AD OC's salute some kid out of diapers who walked in off the street with no experience or service in-doc.

Although I do remember when I was in Army ROTC that there was a program where Cadets were also be members of the Reserves or Guard. When they did guard duty they wore the Cadet 2nd Lt rank a shiny silver circle and were refereed to as 3rd Lt's back in the 90's. Not sure if the Army has this program anymore. My understanding was that they were considered on orders as sort of a Brevet Lt. They shadowed NCO's and Officers. I never did this in ROTC but I had friends who did and told me their units treated them as actual officers. So it may be unit dependent. However, they said they would never demand a salute if they got one they returned it.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 1 at 2014 4:26 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Oct 2014 16:26:17 -0400

Not required. We used to have West Point cadets come down to Benning to shadow Drill Sergeants during the summer. I caught one of them yelling a SIT that he should salute. We fixed that cadet. Ran into the same cadet (at the time now a CPT) several years later. He definitely remembered the event and the following discussion. He seemed like he had calmed down a bit.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Oct 2 at 2014 10:28 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Thu, 02 Oct 2014 22:28:10 -0400

Used to stand gate guard at Corry Station and those bugger AOCS would come through the gate. They had the Blue Sticker so I saluted the Blue Sticker but technically NO! Not until you become an Ensign do you warrant one and even then you are on Shaky Ground. Junior Officers on some commands I served at the CO would tell them to shut up when an e-6 or above was talking "Shut up and Listen, You might Learn Something".

Response by PO2 Joseph Mikulsky made Oct 5 at 2014 9:16 AM

PO2 Joseph Mikulsky — Sun, 05 Oct 2014 09:16:34 -0400

I never saluted a cadet

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 1:52 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:52:23 -0500

Lots of interesting speculations mixed with valid facts. People mix up customs and traditions with policy and regulatios....As usual, one size answer does not fit all. Correct answers may vary by the exact type of Cadet--ROTC, Military College (usually ROTC), Military School (such as OCS); USAR or NG School/OCS ;Student Officer Company/College Junior Program (WACs and med had that); and a few other wild cards. Although seldom called "cadets" some "candidates" have UCMJ status (such as OCS, WOs and the few enlisted soldiers then attending an Academy or simultaneous commissioning programs), some have no UCMJ status until commissioned. Cadets in a paid position are in fact, either paid at the grade they last held, if any, or in the case of OCS the default of grade E5s unless entitled to a higher grade--or the "equivalent"; West Point Cadets currently are paid $900 per month, less expenses, an amount that increases each year . In the case of "actual" pay, vs "actual" rank under the UCMJ represents one reason we have both, because they are not always at the same level (such as my own reserve rank) , it is yet another difference between rank and grade that somehow, people never seem to comprehend. Grade is for pay, Rank is for authority, and an Academy cadet can only have grade (although technically soldiers from enlisted ranks are "released from active duty" and held in a control group for rank as they have statutory right to revert to their former enlisted status). Other types of cadets may have one, none, both or more than one of each depending on component (another thing people should read up on)... A cadet is not a subaltern in our current military system. At one time, they were (midshipmen). Cadets are thus entitled to courtesy but not salutes. Of course, a local commander or any officer can have you salute a fire hydrant if he/she wishes; that does not render respect. When you are done saluting you can complain about it later.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 1:55 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:55:31 -0500

Short answer: only if I tell you so, Staff Sergeant! Long answer: see below.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 1:59 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:59:50 -0500

Short answer: only if I tell you so, Staff Sergeant! Long answer: see below.

Response by SPC Jack Hunt, JR made Nov 14 at 2014 2:00 PM

SPC Jack Hunt, JR — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:00:00 -0500

When I was in BCT at Ft Benning a very long time ago a herd of cadidiots,( no disrespect intended) got to come over and mess with us for a day. I never really got the idea of that.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Nov 14 at 2014 2:03 PM

SSG Tim Everett — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:03:13 -0500

Wish I'd known this when my battalion got to host a bunch of cadets. =/

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Feb 7 at 2015 9:39 AM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Sat, 07 Feb 2015 09:39:10 -0500

we were in boot camp

Response by SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. made Feb 7 at 2015 9:56 AM

SFC Dan Sorrow, M.S. — Sat, 07 Feb 2015 09:56:29 -0500

In 1991 while I was on Drill Sgt duty, we had a crew of cadets (6 if I remember correctly) come through over the summer for a month of extended learning. When they arrived, I had been on a period of emergency leave. I couldn't believe what I saw when I reported back for duty. One of the cadets was trying to run the platoon. He had a newer drill sergeant allowing him to do things with the platoon that weren't within our policy's (reporting to him for any action the soldiers need to perform, daily inspections per his ROTC commands expectations and SOP's, etc.). The first moment I encountered this young cadet, he was kicked back at the other drill sgts desk with his feet on the desk. That lasted about 2 seconds. I lit his ass up. Then I lit up the othe drill sergeant for allowing this type of behavior. After PT, I encountered this young cadet again attempting to conduct an in-ranks uniform inspection while he looked like a soup sandwich. I escorted him behind the formation and pointed out his deficiencies and told him to ensure he is squared away before ever standing in front of soldiers for any reason.

At first, he wasn't so enamored with my evaluations. However, the CO and 1SG were thrilled by it! By the time the crew left, this particular cadet had another level of respect for NCO's and soldiers. One of his last functions was to inspect the platoon. Before he stepped in front of them, he asked if I would inspect him to be certain he was squared away. No faults were found.

I believe that's the way it's supposed to work. He wasn't there to assume a leadership position in the company but to observe, learn, and emulate.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 7 at 2015 12:06 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sat, 07 Feb 2015 12:06:03 -0500

Although I have already responded to this question, I can't help sharing a story that is tangentially related...

I grew up in the Scouting movement. From Cub Scout and Boy Scout, I graduated to the Sea Scouts where I eventually became a mate (an assistant Scout Master), all before I ever entered the military service. My dress uniform was fashioned after that of a Coast Guard officer with subtle differences. Of course, the brass was totally different.

I was thus attired on a visit to the US Naval Academy to discuss the transfer of a surplus US Navy training vessel to our Sea Scout unit. When I arrived at the gate, the Marine sentry was obviously confused at first and then relied on the age old wisdom: "When in doubt, salute."

Rather than explain myself, I returned the salute and entered.

Sadly, I wasn't as wise as that sentry when I entered the service. On meeting a warrant officer for the first time, I hesitated and received instruction as to the significance of warrant officer insignia by a gentleman who walked away muttering something about the poor instruction that new recruits were receiving.

The bottom line is that it is my understanding that enlisted personnel are not required to salute officer candidates, but don't forget the protocol that Marine sentry practiced.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 3:42 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Feb 2015 15:42:36 -0500

Cadets don't rate. They have less military authority and experience then your local girl scout troop leader unless they're prior enlisted making good.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 3:43 PM

MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Feb 2015 15:43:03 -0500

Fun fact: something a lot of people don't know, is that even though they are not authorized a salute, they can take command of a unit.

AR 600-20 notes that a cadet would take assumption of command of no officer or warrant are abailable.

Response by SSG Sean Garcia made Feb 7 at 2015 3:50 PM

SSG Sean Garcia — Sat, 07 Feb 2015 15:50:36 -0500

Not just no, but HECK no!!! Cadets are not real officers yet, they are just faking the funk.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2015 8:52 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Feb 2015 20:52:03 -0500

Eeeeehh no. The one time someone saluted me as a cadet(it was a pv2 and the poor young kid looked terrified of everyone) I stopped him. You aren't yet commissioned and there tons of cadets that don't make it to LT. You haven't earned it yet.

Response by 1LT Nick Kidwell made Mar 7 at 2015 4:22 PM

1LT Nick Kidwell — Sat, 07 Mar 2015 16:22:18 -0500

Negatory.

When I was an OCS Candidate, I was no longer enlisted, and I wasn't commissioned yet. *I* had to salute 2LTs and stand at parade rest for CPLs. That's the way it was.

Later on, when I had ROTC Cadidiots attached to my platoon, we did NOT require our enlisted to salute them, and they were there simply to learn from the NCOs and the officers.

Response by LTC Chris Norton made Apr 22 at 2015 9:54 AM

LTC Chris Norton — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 09:54:56 -0400

Not on the topic of required to or not, but YEARS ago, when I was assigned to a CTLT(Cadet Troop Leader Training) billet w/ 3-67AR at Ft Hood, I was walking across the area to the mess hall (or something...Old guy memory now). In the other direction, walking towards me is a young Joe.

I see him in the distance squinting, right hand at the ready, but visibly confused at what the hell I was.

Eventually, discretion being the better part of valor, he pops a salute with the unit motto, which I returned, and then he asked me..."Sir, what ARE you?"

I told him, matter of factly...."Delta. We have our own rank."

I can only imagine what happened when he told that story later.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Apr 22 at 2015 3:48 PM

SGT Craig Northacker — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 15:48:49 -0400

A Cadet is an E-1 if on scholarship. Not sure they are on anyone's radar for even thinking about a salute. Any cadet who wants to be saluted needs to be properly educated - and to me that ego would only cause problems in the real world later on.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 22 at 2015 4:06 PM

Lt Col Jim Coe — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 16:06:02 -0400

I wouldn't think so. When I was an AFROTC cadet officer, my Air Force pay grade was E-1.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2015 4:23 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 16:23:09 -0400

In my experience, I have been saluted and after returning it I asked him not to salute me in the future. When he asked me why I simply said that I had not earned that yet and we went about our days. Some ppl do call me sir others just cadet either way it doesn't bother me. I still stand at parade rest and at attention like everyone else. I hate sittingaround whenever I can I am with everyone training on whatever they're doing.

Response by SGT Shayne Merritt made Apr 22 at 2015 4:36 PM

SGT Shayne Merritt — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 16:36:34 -0400

I agree with you 100%... The biggest problem I ever had with this was while stationed at Landstuhal... There were so many cadet nurses that would come and go and try to get salutes from everyone... I used to correct younger Soldiers sometimes informing them of this same regulation, it is my opinion that cadets simply do not rate a salute... We also had problems with wives of officers demanding salutes as well :/

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 22 at 2015 4:38 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 22 Apr 2015 16:38:04 -0400

They were "dots" to me and not deserving of salutes.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 1 at 2015 8:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 01 Jul 2015 20:54:33 -0400

HAHAHAHA! Saluting cadets, that is cute.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 1 at 2015 9:19 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 01 Jul 2015 21:19:47 -0400

They have not earned their way into the Army yet. I call them dots.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2015 5:35 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Aug 2015 17:35:07 -0400

I've had the same question. I work gate guard at my post and we are required to salute all active and prior service officers, it's my understanding we don't salute cadets

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Aug 30 at 2015 8:08 PM

PFC Tuan Trang — Sun, 30 Aug 2015 20:08:14 -0400

I might be wrong, but only if that cader recieve his/her commission, if not they're still like a recruite to me.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 8:00 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 20:00:30 -0400

I'm glad I found your question, because I was wondering myself what the answer was this weekend at drill. I'm not trying to become an officer just to get saluted, but I got saluted 3 different times this last weekend. I saluted back, responded with "Air Assault" (I'm prior-active enlisted deployed with the 101st), but I was honestly more surprised and confused because I didn't expect it at all. The first salute was an enlisted first sergeant so the e-5 in me was about to say "'Morning 1st Sergeant." but he saluted me before I got the chance.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2016 11:30 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 24 Mar 2016 11:30:57 -0400

i guess its a unit thing, in my last unit we were instructed to salute cadets, right or wrong, its the commanders discission

Response by Maj John Bell made Mar 25 at 2016 6:01 AM

Maj John Bell — Fri, 25 Mar 2016 06:01:21 -0400

I do not understand why a salute, a simple military greeting, that takes about two seconds and less than 1 calorie to render is such an ass chapper? It is a sign of fellowship, not servitude.

There are some Midshipmen/Cadets who make it through to the fleet/field that should not, but I believe they are rare. If they are as a group inadequate, that says more about their trainers than it does about them. Whether they are better, or not, for training with you, says something about you.

I did not expect a salute as a midshipman, but I was grateful when I received one. The salute itself is not important in the grand scheme of things. But it is an indicator of what does matter, attitude.

Cadets and Midshipmen should be met with the same goodwill ANYONE has a right to expect upon reporting for duty.

That doesn't mean you can't send them looking for 20ft of shoreline or other good natured pranks. That is a rite of passage. But remember, they are inexperienced, not stupid. And if you have a chip on your shoulder they'll know it. How receptive are you when you're met with undeserved skepticism and assumptions? I maintain that in peace time a Senior NCO and any SNCO has no greater task than development of his/her Lieutenants or any Cadets/Midshipmen entrusted to his/her supervision.

Response by LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD made Mar 29 at 2016 11:19 AM

LTC Terrence Farrier, PhD — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:19:57 -0400

If I commanded the unit, the answer is yes. It is important however to understand the "why"! Cadets are learning. Part of that learning is the understanding that wearing that uniform and advancing in rank does not give them personal leeway to treat others poorly, but that rank bears a responsibility to be fair and just and prosecute the nation's intent. It is the uniform, not the person they salute. When they understand that and become who they should be as a leader, the salute becomes both and those who wish to salute will do it with pride...not obligation. Further, the AR could caveat the regulation because the way I understand how a cadet's rank is seen is that of a SSG. Refer to the above and talk to your Commander about it.

Response by LTJG Frederick Birchmore made Mar 29 at 2016 11:30 AM

LTJG Frederick Birchmore — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:30:31 -0400

Not in my OCS days. In the boonie bars (for contention training), enlisted would salute us OCUI-2s with one finger, trying to pick a fight. Once commissioned, though, it was immediate respect, possibly because of what we had endured, and certainly if we were carrying that dollar bill to hand the first swabbie to salute us after commissioning.

Response by CPT Jim Schwebach made Mar 29 at 2016 11:37 AM

CPT Jim Schwebach — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 11:37:42 -0400

Not only no but hell no.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 29 at 2016 3:04 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 15:04:13 -0400

Response by SFC Jeff Stevenson made Mar 30 at 2016 12:30 AM

SFC Jeff Stevenson — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 00:30:13 -0400

I had to deal specifically with this during the annual Camp All American where we had the task of mentoring a young cadet. We were told to show respect and teach but in no way were we to ever salute a student/cadet. Initially, the students were upset until I politely explained that most of the men working had done their time and are working as compared to his "training". Was an easy conversation.

Response by PO1 Jack Howell made Mar 30 at 2016 1:26 PM

PO1 Jack Howell — Wed, 30 Mar 2016 13:26:59 -0400

No. They're not commissioned officers yet. The only deserve respectful interactions.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Mar 31 at 2016 12:06 AM

Capt Brandon Charters — Thu, 31 Mar 2016 00:06:59 -0400

As a cadet, I specifically remember my Nellis AFB visit and being in line at a base chow hall. To my right was an A1C going about his day, but I could tell he was locked on the odd metal chevron rank on the collar of my BDUs. He gave it until the veggie station and then he just tapped my rank and frankly asked...."what's that Sh**, man?" I still laugh about it to this day.
I'd never ask an enlisted member to salute me as a cadet. I knew guys that did, and those are the ones who didn't make it very far in the promotion cycles ;)
If you have a cadet visiting your unit, consider it a training opportunity. Give him the respect and real expectations you would want out of an LT.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Apr 29 at 2016 1:00 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 13:00:24 -0400

Not appropriate. But, in the last phase of OCS, those who know they will be commissioned (a very few) and only as a courtesy, they will be saluted... Not regulation, not required, only a sign of respect...usually done by new E-2s or lower.

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Apr 29 at 2016 1:06 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Fri, 29 Apr 2016 13:06:02 -0400

Annapolis boys on their two week cruise... Off Yankee Station demanded salutes. As a young "deck ape" our gang threatened to throw him over, as only one salute was required per day, and that was usually the old man, and even he didn't like saluting at sea... As most never wore hats.

Response by SSG Dale London made May 6 at 2016 11:48 AM

SSG Dale London — Fri, 06 May 2016 11:48:09 -0400

No. Officer cadets are not officers. They hold no commission... they hold no rank at all.

Response by SFC A.M. Drake made Aug 11 at 2016 12:38 PM

SFC A.M. Drake — Thu, 11 Aug 2016 12:38:41 -0400

Ok we are all in agreement now that Cadets are not authorized a salute since they are not commissioned as such i.e. 2LT

Response by SPC Jill Drushal, RN, MA made Nov 4 at 2016 1:47 PM

SPC Jill Drushal, RN, MA — Fri, 04 Nov 2016 13:47:50 -0400

When I was a PFC, I spent eight weeks during the summer of 1990 driving for ROTC Advanced Camp at Ft. Riley. There was one cadet who just insisted that I salute him. I refused and redirected the conversation, giving the safety briefing for riding in the back of a 2 1/2-ton truck. When I got the cadets to their destination and they exited my vehicle, this same cadet STILL insisted that I salute him. I refused again. His buddies told him to leave it alone. He was making them late for training.

Later in the day, I picked up the same group of cadets and returned them to their barracks. After exiting my vehicle this time, the cadet just wouldn't leave it alone. He pushed even harder. He kept getting in the way of me finishing my job. I had enough. I said, "This is my job. I am a soldier all day, every day. You are here for eight weeks. After that, you will go back to school and tell your friends what a great time you had 'playing soldier' this summer. I will still be here doing my job, supporting my family. When you graduate and receive your commission, I will be first in line to salute you. Until then, NO!"

The cadet got really red in the face and ran to his cadre. I followed. I saluted the cadre Major as I approached. The cadet reported and told the Major that I refused to salute him. The Major asked me if this cadet was causing problems for me and getting in my way. I gave an affirmative response. The Major turned to the cadet and said, "She's right! You do not deserve a salute from ANYONE until you are commissioned." He made the cadet apologize to me. Then, he dropped him for hindering me in the performance of my duty. The Major apologized to me for the behavior of his cadet and assured me that I would have no more problem with this cadet for the rest of the cycle. I didn't.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2017 4:22 PM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 16:22:47 -0400

Interestingly, Navy midshipmen do rate salutes from enlisted personnel. The Nav places mids between W-1 and W-2, which in practice makes them senior in rank to Master Chiefs but junior to the newest warrant officer. It was not an expectation on the Academy Yard, but when I was a mid on summer training to New London, the Es were meticulous about observing that. Often with a wry smile, but ibserved

Response by LCDR Anthony Montague made Mar 25 at 2017 3:09 AM

LCDR Anthony Montague — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 03:09:25 -0400

I am from an old Navy family... all enlisted and had heard many of the stories of the Butterbars. Totally threw a wrench in the expectations of my snco on my first cruise as a fresh mint ensign when I just walked in, pulled out the clipboard and said "Chief, this is what we are assigned today. You know your men better than I do, so how about you just make the assignments while I watch and you can explain who and why to me so I can get some feel for the men from you". First was pure shock, then a gleam of respect for my admission of my own limits. Must have had a real "winner" somewhere before me. Never was much for all the coming to attention or salutes during day to day stuff unless a senior officer was around. Only time I gleefully enjoyed it was when I showed up at my sister's duty post and she had to salute me. Fun times... Lost her LOD in Desert Storm. Still missing her

Response by PFC Anthony Bruce made Mar 27 at 2017 1:25 PM

PFC Anthony Bruce — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 13:25:11 -0400

One unit I was in the CO ordered us that we would salute cadets.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2017 4:46 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 16:46:09 -0400

why is this even asked?

Response by SPC Justin Foster made Mar 27 at 2017 9:07 PM

SPC Justin Foster — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 21:07:58 -0400

I spent one semester as a cadet during my 6 year enlistment in the NG. That meant going to drill with cadet rank. I never expected anyone to salute me. It did happen once, but it surprised me. I just returned the salute and said good morning.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2017 11:03 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 23:03:32 -0400

Haven't earned it yet, not until December anyway. Even then, it's not what I was after when I went from enlisted to ROTC. Being the old guy, I think actually the oldest member of ROTC in Ohio anyway (34), I may get saluted because they think the big dot is a LTC from far enough away. The 101st patch on my right arm from my 08-09 deployment throws a lot of people off too. It might be all the grays or the crows feet, who knows. I do not expect a salute. If someone feels like saluting me, then I'll salute back, usually with a "thank you, but you don't have to do that" attached to it though. I've got a few years under my belt, and hopefully don't come off as an arrogant little prick that I've become so accustomed to seeing in ca-DOT land.

Response by SFC Mark Biggs made Mar 29 at 2017 12:33 PM

SFC Mark Biggs — Wed, 29 Mar 2017 12:33:29 -0400

My son served as a trainer for the new cadets at West Point one summer. He was an E4 Specialist. These brand new cadets all seemed to think that they should be saluted by this lower life form. My son assured them that
A. They weren't in the Army yet
B. They were not commissioned officers
C. They would never receive a salute from him until A and B were both changed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2017 6:29 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 30 Mar 2017 06:29:20 -0400

I have seen this in both active duty in reserves. While on Active duty stationed in Korea we had four cadets assigned to shadow our officers during the summer. Our CO put out at to the whole unit that while we were to give them the upmost respect we did not have to salute them because they have not earned it. That commander was an ROTC graduate himself. The second one was in a Reserve unit. We had a prior enlisted E4 who was in the ROTC program. Commanders orders were to refer to her with all respect either as Ms. , Ma am, or cadet; but that we were not required to salute her. Nothing stated about not saluting just that we didn't have to.

Response by SrA Jerry Prizevoits made Apr 27 at 2017 8:39 PM

SrA Jerry Prizevoits — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:39:17 -0400

I had a young ROTC cadet try and pull that where is my salute crap on me after a 12 hour night shift while I was headed into the chow hall. I looked at his emblems and said salute what? Right about then a LTC who was with these young men came over. I locked up, rendered a proper salute and greeted him with a simple good morning sir. Well the LTC overheard the exchange and told this young man that he had no rank, furthermore he saw no redeeming qualities which were becoming of an officer. He then took me around all the waiting cadets and put me in front of them in line and told me to get some chow and hit the rack, I looked exhausted. I hope there are still officers out there that show by example how to care for the troops. It is these simple gestures that keep the bond between the NCO corps and the Officer corps strong. I could go on about other such exchanges, but I was very blessed to serve with some outstanding NCO's under the finest Officers in the USAF by my estimation.

Response by SSgt Paul Rogers made May 27 at 2017 9:51 PM

SSgt Paul Rogers — Sat, 27 May 2017 21:51:36 -0400

Correct me if I'm wrong, but one renders a Salute to the Medal Of Honor, not the recipient.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 19 at 2017 2:00 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Sep 2017 14:00:25 -0400

If they don't have their commission I'm not saluting.

Response by MGySgt Jerry Suarez made Oct 14 at 2017 10:41 AM

MGySgt Jerry Suarez — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 10:41:31 -0400

No they are not commissioned yet

Response by PO3 J.W. Nelson made Oct 14 at 2017 6:34 PM

PO3 J.W. Nelson — Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:34:50 -0400

No Sir !!

Response by LT Terry Lober made Oct 28 at 2017 9:48 AM

LT Terry Lober — Sat, 28 Oct 2017 09:48:44 -0400

No. I was a cadet. We were NOT officers. We saluted all Officer's. But cadets are NOT officers.

Response by SSG Billie Dalton made Nov 9 at 2017 3:36 PM

SSG Billie Dalton — Thu, 09 Nov 2017 15:36:25 -0500

Yes

Response by SPC(P) Mark Newman made Dec 1 at 2017 5:37 PM

SPC(P) Mark Newman — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 17:37:14 -0500

Ifbwe weren't supposed to salute, fine. Just stop putting shiny things on their cap. My eyes see "shiny thing on head gear" and tell my hand to salute. Brain doesn't get a chance to get involved.

Response by CPT Roger Sun made Dec 14 at 2017 11:40 PM

CPT Roger Sun — Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:40:01 -0500

Yes! IAW AR 600-20, Army Command Policy, under 2-8, page 15, it does state that cadets outrank NCOs.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2018 9:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 21:37:19 -0500

No, no, and Hell no.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2018 7:08 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Jan 2018 07:08:52 -0500

When comes down to it its about rendering respect and the are getting payed as a 2lt so what not. I don't care my self just as long as everyone respects each other

Response by MSG Vincent Moon made Jan 30 at 2018 4:00 PM

MSG Vincent Moon — Tue, 30 Jan 2018 16:00:14 -0500

No he/she has not received their commission does not warrant a salute.

Response by 1LT Janise Jensen made Feb 4 at 2018 6:48 PM

1LT Janise Jensen — Sun, 04 Feb 2018 18:48:13 -0500

No, they are not entitled to a salute until they are commissioned.

Response by 1SG Clifford Barnes made Feb 28 at 2018 10:17 PM

1SG Clifford Barnes — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 22:17:18 -0500

No but a lot of people do

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 22 at 2018 9:25 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Tue, 22 May 2018 09:25:40 -0400

NO- salutes by regs are for- MOH recipients, Commissioned and Warrant Officers- and select civilians- POTUS, etc.

Response by Lt Col George Roll made Jun 3 at 2018 8:44 PM

Lt Col George Roll — Sun, 03 Jun 2018 20:44:22 -0400

"Cadets" are college kids that MAY become Officers. They are paid E-5 pay and allowed to participate in some military activities. We even had a couple of Air Force Academy cadets show up in Vietnam. We were not allowed to take them into any hot areas. So No they do not have to be saluted, but if one really excells in his duties and is a god guy you can certainly render a salute if you think he's earned it.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 5:22 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 17:22:58 -0400

Is it true that cadets rank above warrant officers and SNCOs according

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2018 5:26 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 27 Jul 2018 17:26:49 -0400

Is it true that cadets rank between warrants officer and SNCOs https://mwi.usma.edu/yes-sergeant-actually-west-point-cadet-outrank/ I tried reading the link to the AR 600-20 command policy but it does not open, and if true how do the fit in the chain of command or his function

Yes, Sergeant, Actually That West Point Cadet Does Outrank You - Modern War Institute

Scott Faith argues that contrary to popular belief West Point and ROTC cadets outrank NCO's according to Army Command Policy.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2018 1:52 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Jul 2018 01:52:24 -0400

As far as I'm concerned.. they are not a soldier... They should be treated like the rest of us.. earn the Right..

Response by COL Mark Crowley made Nov 29 at 2018 2:08 PM

COL Mark Crowley — Thu, 29 Nov 2018 14:08:18 -0500

I remember seeing a West Point Cadet who was in Germany on summer TDY haranguing an E6 for not saluting him, I felt that it was my duty and obligation to inform the Cadet that he was totally out of line by publicly making a fool out of himself (by the way I took the cadet aside) and counseled him in proper military bearing and behavior.

Response by LT Terry Lober made Dec 11 at 2018 11:17 AM

LT Terry Lober — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 11:17:06 -0500

Cadets are not entitled to a salute from enlisted servicemen and servicewomen. Cadets are not officers.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 5:38 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 17:38:53 -0500

No. Cadets are not commissioned officers. You do not salute them.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2018 12:02 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:02:22 -0500

No. They are not required to salute cadets

Response by SGT Rodrigo Contreras made Dec 27 at 2018 1:59 PM

SGT Rodrigo Contreras — Thu, 27 Dec 2018 13:59:47 -0500

Ok funny story time because this happened to me. I was a Simultaneous Member Program Cadet in ROTC at Radford University while assigned TPU in USAR. The slot on the UMR was for a PL. I had to go down to Ft. Lee, VA for Medical Appointment to get updated shot record and to procure Uniform items for Commissioning. So I was in BDUs and wearing the Black Beret with the Cadet 2LT Dot. This is important to the story...While there I went to the PX/MCS... outside were AIT trainees for QM School. Also in the Parking Lot was. female SSG Drill Instructor. As I approached she barked out a very loud “Good Afternoon Sir!” and rendered a Salute. I reacted instinctively and returned it. And replied “Good Afternoon Drill Sergeant.” I continued on and got to the group of Private’s.... who did nothing. I didn’t expect them to... after all I wasn’t expecting anything as I was not yet commissioned. And the Trap was Sprung.
“Sir! Halt!” from the one who saluted me.
Me *looking around like a dumbass*
Drill Sergeants materialize out of everywhere.... and Shark attack these kids for failure to acknowledge an officer candidate. These poor kids got reamed. I am standing at attention because I don’t know what else to do. After they have their way with them the Drills all were very polite to me and apologized for their trainees. I just demurred and told them no apology was needed. Which then got me a glare for a hot second, “Sir, it is about the customs and courtesy. You are going to have to get used to it.”
They left and the Private’s are still there... locked up. I looked at them a moment, put them At Ease and then apologized to them for being the Bait in a Trap I hadn’t realized was set. I told them about being prior enlisted as an NCO and about some of the opportunities they had to look forward to with the GI Bill. It was a good conversation... but I honestly was embarrassed. I felt bad for those Privates who were probably there just for lickys, chewies, and hygiene supplies.... not an ass chewing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2019 12:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Jan 2019 12:15:02 -0500

The “dead horse” has been beaten to a pulp here. Simply treat Cadets with respect, and train them up. Show them the Reg if you need to. Whatever you do, don’t be a prick to them cause if you do, they’ll expect it after they do commission; and then some descent NCO will have a hard time retraining them.

Response by CPT Steve Paxton made Feb 3 at 2019 7:53 PM

CPT Steve Paxton — Sun, 03 Feb 2019 19:53:30 -0500

No cadets are scum deserve no salute till the recieve rhere. Commision

Response by 1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2019 9:42 PM

1LT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Feb 2019 21:42:01 -0500

Spoiler alert: we don't fuggen care if you slap on a salute for us. All we want is for you to successfully execute the mission we give you

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Mar 7 at 2019 7:52 PM

SPC Greg Campbell — Thu, 07 Mar 2019 19:52:07 -0500

I have 2 cadet cadet stories from my time in a armor unit in Germany. dont know if this is the place.

Response by CPO Bruce Dull made Mar 21 at 2019 2:03 PM

CPO Bruce Dull — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 14:03:02 -0400

No. They are not an officer unroll commissioned. Stationed in Annapolis was fun.

Response by 1LT Mike Schelp made Mar 24 at 2019 10:38 PM

1LT Mike Schelp — Sun, 24 Mar 2019 22:38:37 -0400

Cadets are members of the West Point or ROTC programs. If you attend OCS, you are NOT a cadet, you are an officer candidate and you do receive E-5 pay. We honestly never worried about it because we were to busy, though we did salute all officers. If you left the program, you returned to your previous pay grade. For the record, I went to basic in 1976, 11B until 1979 when I ETS’d as a SGT/E-5. College on the GI Bill then OCS Class 4-86, branched Infantry. 12 years in total, then out on a disability.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2019 5:07 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 01 Apr 2019 17:07:54 -0400

Here's an old Navy rule: If it moves, salute it. If it doesn't move, paint it.

Response by LCDR Jerry Maurer made Apr 5 at 2019 8:50 AM

LCDR Jerry Maurer — Fri, 05 Apr 2019 08:50:45 -0400

I was at Navy OCS in 83 in Newport, RI after being SP4 (now called SPC) in the infantry. Next door was USNA prep school. Those cadets got it in their heads that we OCSers needed to salute them and made a formal complaint to our LCDR CO. She called a school assembly and told us that we were required to salute the prep school cadets. We had a Navy Chief OCSer who stood up and told her, first off, illegal order, and, more importantly, he'd worked his way up through the ranks and busted his butt getting through college and he'd be G.. D..... if he'd salute a snot nosed 18 year old straight out of high school. He sat down and the CO said, "class dismissed".

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made Jul 9 at 2019 3:08 PM

SGT Jay Ehrenfeld — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 15:08:41 -0400

Cadet treat as NCO

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jul 9 at 2019 8:02 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 20:02:53 -0400

No. They are a dot not an officer.

Response by SSG Dale London made Jul 21 at 2019 10:14 AM

SSG Dale London — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:14:17 -0400

As I stated in an earlier response to this question, officer cadets are not officers. They hold no rank in the army and therefore do not rate a salute, or "sir" for that matter. The proper mode of address for a cadet is "Cadet."
I might add that the word "cadet" is the root word for "caddie;" you know... the guy who carries your golf clubs for you. You might try informing any jumped-up Kaydet of that little gem. That'll pull a cinch in his guy-wire!

Response by Capt Michael Wilford made Jul 21 at 2019 10:40 AM

Capt Michael Wilford — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 10:40:08 -0400

Just a question out of curiosity here; why does this seem to be mostly an Army issue? We do not have this problem with Naval Academy Cadets, they know their place. I am NOT knocking the Army, just asking the germane question.

Response by SPC Clayton Ellzey made Sep 25 at 2019 11:45 AM

SPC Clayton Ellzey — Wed, 25 Sep 2019 11:45:16 -0400

I was at West Point summer of 88 at no time did we salute the cadets .

Response by 1SG Clyde Kessler made Oct 27 at 2019 12:11 PM

1SG Clyde Kessler — Sun, 27 Oct 2019 12:11:53 -0400

I can remember taking basic (US Army) at Fort Jackson, SC in 1948 and we had 3 West Point cadets (not officers) come down for part of their training. We were told that although they were not officers that we would salute them as long as they were there.

Response by CWO5 Ray Lee made Apr 10 at 2020 1:50 PM

CWO5 Ray Lee — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:50:29 -0400

There are 11 general orders in the Marines. Order number 10 Applies. The Army and Air Force have 3. Nothing about saluting. Cadets are toy soldiers. Not entitled, but are required to salute “real” soldiers. Lol.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 10 at 2020 8:49 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:49:09 -0400

Believe it or not, most cadets know they are not commissioned yet and do not expect to be saluted.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Apr 10 at 2020 9:29 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 21:29:53 -0400

Cadets and Midshipmen do not rate a salute, regardless of how much they wished otherwise.

If you stick around log enough you will encounter some nerd from ROTC or from an Academy who tries to push their luck and demand a salute. I’ve even seen a few pumped up JROTC kids try to chest pump a private on recruiters assistance before.

Just inform them of their misinterpretation of the situation and tactfully instruct them to kick rocks.

Response by SGT Mike Fritz made Apr 10 at 2020 11:12 PM

SGT Mike Fritz — Fri, 10 Apr 2020 23:12:03 -0400

I have saluted Cadets and WOC's and while not required to, it is still a sign of respect. While they may not be an Officer or Warrant Officer yet, they still can make the same sacrifice that anyone else can. I never had one tell me that they required a salute.
On the other side, while stationed at Lakehurst NJ in '84, I had to go to Ft. Dix on occasion and being in a flight suit, I was constantly being saluted by basic trainees who assumed that anyone wearing a flight suit must be an officer. I just returned the salutes and went on about my business.

Response by CWO5 Ray Lee made Apr 23 at 2020 1:34 AM

CWO5 Ray Lee — Thu, 23 Apr 2020 01:34:34 -0400

No.

Response by 1LT Kevin Chapman made Jun 22 at 2020 1:14 AM

1LT Kevin Chapman — Mon, 22 Jun 2020 01:14:50 -0400

As a Cadet I never expected to be saluted at all. My MS4 year, I had just a few months before I commissioned and while on an internship at Fort Jackson 2019 Fall. The Battalion CSM to the company I was attached to saw me and a fellow cadet walking to the chow hall and he saluted us. We both were caught off guard lol. His reasoning behind it was due to the fact that he knew we were commissioning soon. Still, I never saw that coming.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2020 11:02 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Nov 2020 23:02:59 -0500

I understand you are NOT required to salute a Cadet but how do you address a Cadet? Sir/Ma'am, Cadet, Mr./Mrs.? Are they treated as an Officer or less than a Private. Do you stand at attention, parade rest, or relaxed?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2021 3:47 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Feb 2021 15:47:47 -0500

No. New 2LTs receive the ceremonial FIRST salute at the time of commissioning. If a Cadet wants you to Salute them, they are already trying to become the wrong type of Officer in my opinion.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 24 at 2021 12:33 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 12:33:49 -0500

In most of the units I was associated with, we had quite a few CDTs. Most were prior enlisted. They were aware of the regulations. We almost always called them cadet or sir/mam.
We didn't have any that expected a salute, if so our 1st Sergeant would enlighten them.
We always took care of them so they learned!

Response by CPT Bruce Fernandez made Feb 24 at 2021 5:24 PM

CPT Bruce Fernandez — Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:24:32 -0500

Soldiers should salute soldiers! It's a greeting and a signal of respect for the profession and the service! My grandson (cashiered E-5 Navy) recently complained about my salute to him (I'm O-3 Vietnam Co Commander, Engr) and his expectation that I expected a return salute, I absolutely did! I was respecting his service. I gather that he had a negative experience with some officer aboard the Sub. I don't actually know if his attitude has changed, but I'm easily ready to correct it again!

Response by Lt Col W Scott Arnott made Mar 5 at 2021 9:57 PM

Lt Col W Scott Arnott — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 21:57:04 -0500

In my opinion (and I was enlisted, then a cadet, and an officer that retired as an L/C), I do not believe enlisted have to salute a cadet not did I ever see that happen at the Air Force Academy!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 5 at 2021 10:06 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Mar 2021 22:06:28 -0500

I have always seen units with cadets ordered to treat cadets like commissioned officers.

Response by LTC Ken Connolly made Mar 7 at 2021 10:20 AM

LTC Ken Connolly — Sun, 07 Mar 2021 10:20:43 -0500

Why not? A salute is a formal military greeting.

Response by SSG Georgeania Starbuck made Mar 29 at 2021 6:11 PM

SSG Georgeania Starbuck — Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:11:06 -0400

Having been a cadet in a program while I was enlisted and an E-6, I did not expect anyone to salute but if someone did, I returned it. If given the chance, I'd explain that it wasn't required.

Response by CPT William Jones made Jun 6 at 2021 6:19 PM

CPT William Jones — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 18:19:45 -0400

Short answer is No. a liltle advice. Be nice you may run into the cadet in the future

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 13 at 2021 5:23 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Dec 2021 17:23:16 -0500

Well technically speaking yes they should get saluted if they are commissioned cadets buy enlisted people not warrant officers or officers as they do have an actual military rank that falls in between command sergeant major and warrant officer one but as a cadet I don't feel we deserve to be saluted by relisted member now lower ranking 'enlisted' cadets yes but not enlisted members

Response by SSG Brian Carpeneter made Mar 23 at 2022 5:25 PM

SSG Brian Carpeneter — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:25:46 -0400

Times have definitely changed. In my time "THEY" forced us to salute cadets even when I pointed out the very things stated in this article. So of any of my ex leadership ever sees this...once again I prove that I was right about why you were never a true leader but just another poser in my Army. But as I was taught take the good from all leaders and throw threat that s%#@ in the garbage.

Response by SP6 Vincent Ramsey made Jan 15 at 2024 11:02 AM

SP6 Vincent Ramsey — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 11:02:17 -0500

No. He is not an officer as yet.

Response by A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney made Jan 16 at 2024 10:20 AM

A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney — Tue, 16 Jan 2024 10:20:02 -0500

What The "L", Give'm A Thrill,
And Toss'em A Free Salute...
Makes'em Think They're Actually
A Real Member Of Our Military, And Something To Write Home About.
"Hey Mom, Guess What Happened Today".