Are groups like the American Legion and VFW too Right Wing Conservative for the new generation of Veterans?

2016-02-26T16:51:25-05:00

Given the societal change in this country that has been integrated into the Armed Forces, do younger veterans share the same views and attitudes of the traditional veterans clubs?
Are you uncomfortable participating when everyone else is considerably older and have different views? Should religion and politics be a focal point for Veterans Organizations?

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2016 5:17 PM

2016-02-26T17:17:55-05:00

The vast majority of military veterans I know are conservatives. as are the members of every VFW or AL post to which I have belonged. Our values center around patriotism and defending the American flag. It sounds like you are asking these organizations to apologize for that. We have a POS president who's been going around the world apologizing for America and what we've done throughout history. The VFW and the AL have nothing for which they should or ever will apologize. Nor will I ever apologize for idolizing the men of the Greatest Generation who accomplished the most dramatic history-changing task since the beginning of time. Those men are my heroes, as are all war veterans of this country.

If a bunch of 23-year-olds think that what the VFW and the AL stand for and what they do is irrelevant and antiquated, more power to them to start their own fraternity that's more socialistic and left wing.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Feb 26 at 2016 8:55 PM

2016-02-26T20:55:11-05:00

I am a life member of the VFW in Caldwell, Idaho even though I live in Denmark. Why? It is a connection home. I felt the need to belong to the VFW, but not too many Posts in Denmark. I really wish sometimes I had the chance to do all the things all you vets CONUS have a chance to do.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Feb 27 at 2016 2:38 PM

2016-02-27T14:38:48-05:00

Damn Good Question and I suspect you are on to something. Yes I am a Lifetime Member of the VFW but you are right. Get really tired of hearing FOX Talking Points constantly Regurgitated by the Older Veterans. Definitely a Turn off for us Younger Folks.

Response by SGT James George made Mar 1 at 2016 8:32 AM

2016-03-01T08:32:43-05:00

I really caught your topic and it is a damned good one. After reading a few replies and analyzing that information, I think this is a complicated question. I thought at first it was simple to answer, but its not. I think the biggest issue is the age difference. For so many years membership declined. I have not decided to join one simply due to personal reasons and while looking at one of them, I couldnt quite decide if they were for me or not. But what is troublesome is the quote below stating how young people get their news from the internet and such.... well we all know,, dont believe what you read on the internet.. and if you are in Intel, you learned to check your sources. The bashing of Fox news is just a simple sign those people are drinking from the same cup of biased news as they say that Fox news is reporting. Those kids are a problem and will remain a problem regardless if they are veterans or not. I last served with teenage kids and in their 20's during the OIF and I fear for our country ever since. They had no core values, they didnt care, they wanted the glory of being in the military without the work to say they earned it. I heard this from other guys my age returning from Iraq. We didnt go so i know i saw a worst attitude. Some of those kids, wisened up over there, I heard. None of mine stateside really did. But back to resolving the issue. These kids have the same rights to assemble and form as we do. Perhaps they dont want the camaraderie,, just the disability check. That wouldnt surprise me, since a lot of those that are more liberal have issues with the military. Most of mine were liberal and hated that i was so authoritative. When I point out to them that Obama is, I get, 'he has to do something to fix it'... but fix what? My point is to 'lets figure out a logical way to do this and do it systematically' is always met with 'no, we need it now'. (this is mostly about Obamacare) There is a huuuuuge difference of opinion between left and right at all ages and what is stupid is, its about the 20% of things we dont agree on. We blame them for that, they blame us for that,,, when are we going to look at ourselves and how we vote and the crooked crony's we reelect into congress. Something has to bring us together again.. veterans as well as citizens. The answer may be the same, it may be different but this boils down to separation of ideology if you ask me. I think we need more parties.. mostly 'sub parties' of each to specifically identify with certain cultural differences in our society. I talked to a strong union pipefitter and we had a great talk. I proposed to him a party of strong constitutional beliefs and strong labor beliefs. although I am white collar now, I believe I and we HAVE to work for our needs/wants. So does he. He also believes in having guns. However, he hated the thought of having an AR. I asked him why and he went to the 'automatic' issue and magazine size. I was stunned. I told him mine doesnt have automatic features and with training I can reload with many 10 round clips with very little delay between the reloads to acoomplish the same mass murder since NO ONE ON SITE IS PROVIDING RETURNING FIRE. he thinks guns should not be on school anywhere and he has kids.. I am still stunned. moving on... I have never heard the N word used in any Hall but that doesnt mean it doesnt happen. I have tried really hard to avoid that myself, simply out of the fact I'm tired of hearing how it reverts to slavery and I had nothing to do with it. To me, its like calling me a cracker or redneck,, big deal, laugh it off. its just a word. Anyway, i know I am kind of rambling but the discussion needs to be opened and it has to be fair and both sides have valid points and issues that need to be taken into consideration. I think the core of us that are 'righties' from the military, stems from protecting the Constitution herself. To us its simple, it fulfills every human's needs and rights, with modifications sometimes, but thats the beauty of it, its not perfect, they knew it wasnt and it should be modified as needed to protect rights. We see the left as picking and choosing which parts to believe in and we see the righties as mostly defending it, just making a kazillion dollars while doing so. Am I right?

Response by SGT James George made Mar 1 at 2016 8:33 AM

2016-03-01T08:33:01-05:00

Response by SPC Steven Oxley made Mar 1 at 2016 8:42 AM

2016-03-01T08:42:13-05:00

If veterans organizations like VFW & AL are to far Right Wing then I'd have to thow Rally Point in with it also. All are a group of brothers in arms dedicated and believe in the values of God Country and Freedom.

Response by SGT Loren Hammons made Mar 1 at 2016 9:00 AM

2016-03-01T09:00:37-05:00

Please look at Concerned Veterans for America. We are neither left or right and only work on Veterans issues.

Response by MSgt Mike Teresa Ash made Mar 1 at 2016 9:16 AM

2016-03-01T09:16:42-05:00

Speaking strictly for the American Legion, I'd have to say the question "should not" apply. The American Legion prides itself on being non-partisan. Any time a politician speaks to Legionnaires at a Legion function or event they are told upfront and in no uncertain terms they need to address veteran issues and they cannot "stump" for election or re-election. Of course, we know that veterans (okay, especially "older" veterans) typically tend to lean a bit to the right side of the political spectrum, however, every program carried out by the American Legion is devoid of partisan politics and focus on Children and Youth, Veterans, Rehabilitation and National Security. The primary purpose of the Legion is stated in one of it's bylines "Still Serving America". The Legion serves America's veterans and their families, by fighting for veterans benefits and the adequate care for veterans and their families.

Response by SPC Keelan Southerland made Mar 1 at 2016 9:53 AM

2016-03-01T09:53:10-05:00

Last year I became a member of the VFW in Arkansas. Most of the members are Vietnam Vets some are racist and some are not, most in the leadership role are Democrats. I sit in each meeting and can't wait for each meeting to end. At my local group the night is started off with dinner then we move to the back room. Once we get to the back room the meeting is treated like a ceremony. I have stood in way too many change of command formations and various other ceremonies the military has to spend my free time doing it instead of spending it with my family. Most of the meeting is spent talking about old business, new business, Bingo, Burial Detail and other things I would rather not take part in during my free time. One gentleman in charge of the Burial Detail asked if I had a uniform yet and I replied in the negative. He wanted to make a big deal about getting me one until I made it clear I did not want one. He almost seemed offended so I explained; "I took off the uniform in 2011 and am in no rush to jump into another." I would love to go and talk with Schools, but not as a representative of any organization. When you are a part of an Organization they want you to push a certain message instead of saying what needs to be said.

I suspect the newer Veterans are looking for something different. I am not sure what that is yet. Maybe a Social Club for Combat Veterans. A place where there is no formality or agenda aside from spending time with other Veterans who need to get away or hang out. The problem is the Foreign Legion is a bar where any Veteran can come and drink and the VFW allows anyone who has deployed to come on in and wants you to work bingo nights. The best times I have had with other Vets was hanging out playing poker and having a few beers and then going for a hunt the next day.

Response by MSG Mitch Dowler made Mar 1 at 2016 9:55 AM

2016-03-01T09:55:28-05:00

I am a paid up for life American Legion member. The American Legion is apolitical with the exception of lobbying for Veterans and our benefits. There American Legion also gets involved in maintaining civil rights for Veterans so that we also can enjoy the benefits we served to protect. When there is a political issue of the day as appears in each monthly issue the American Legion publishes the viewpoint of both the Democrat and Republican Congressional supporter or opponent. If younger Veterans using things such as the GI Bill or enjoy the prospect of VA or retirement benefits then they are taking advantage of programs that were lobbied for by the American Legion.

I read the American Legion magazine as middle of the road moderate and it could only appear to be right wing from a far left perspective.

Response by SFC Keith Ciancio made Mar 1 at 2016 10:02 AM

2016-03-01T10:02:16-05:00

First off, religion and politics are not the focal point of ANY congressionally chartered veteran's group. In fact, their bylaws explicitly prohibit those activities as core activities. Do they lobby for veterans' issues? Absolutely! And they should. But they do not engage in partisan politics. Like your GI Bill? How do you think you got it? Like your VA home loan? Again, how do you think you got it? Do they still believe in the flag and one nation under God? With all their heart. It's called patriotism.

By the way, religious belief is not a condition of membership. But we do have prayers and the Bible is displayed because the vast majority of veterans are Christian as is the vast majority of American's. Don't like? Then propose a change to the bylaws. One's absence or silence is acquiescence.

I am 44 and I am the adjutant of my VFW post. I am by no means old. We are changing the face of the post each time we recruit new members. Instead of complaining about the relevance and acceptance of the veterans' organizations, try joining them and changing their makeup and direction at annual elections when you run for office. That is what I do.

Response by PO2 Gerry Tandberg made Mar 1 at 2016 10:50 AM

2016-03-01T10:50:28-05:00

A number of years ago I had the privilege to be a team member on a community project sponsored by my employer to paint the American Legion building in our community. A handful of Legionnaires were on hand to provide some limited assistance as well as provide lunch for the volunteers.
I took the time to walk through their building and noted the fruits of their efforts displayed on their walls. The vast majority of those displays were reminders of the sacrifice made by WWII and Korean War Veterans. Some of these Veterans were young enough to have also serve during the Vietnam War.
I didn’t notice any specific endorsement of religion, however, I did notice a reverence to Christian values; which seem to be on par with what I see in the military today.
As we grow older the majority of us actually gain some wisdom, as well as a measure of regret over how we have conducted our lives. In the eyes and dialog of older Veterans I noticed they are quietly more interested in assisting the younger Veterans through the mine field of life than reliving the past. We are a very impatient generation and I think we need to sit back and not be so impatient with those we often consider out-of-date. In some cultures the old generation is held in high esteem and is given a wide berth of respect. This is often not true in our culture today. Consider one day you will be standing in their shoes. I say, joint the American Legion so that someday you may have the wisdom to address the concerns and issue you hold dear today.

Response by LTC Martin Metz made Mar 1 at 2016 12:04 PM

2016-03-01T12:04:28-05:00

It's a shame that the corrosive influence of politics is now damaging the image of our tried and trued Veteran organizations! I think the biggest thing is to stay relevant especially with the younger vets. I can see the differences in how topics are approached between the IAVA and the VFW as an example. I'm a member of both. Rally Point is inclusive and respectful of its members' input. I'm always learning new stuff. The generational gap can be bridged if we listen, roll up our sleeves, revise objectives, and get to work on it.
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/19/younger-veterans-bypass-vfw-american-legion-for-se/

Younger veterans bypass VFW, American Legion for service, fitness groups

Kate Hoit served eight years in the Army Reserves, including a tour in Iraq, but when she tried to join her local Veterans of Foreign Wars chapter, someone asked whether she needed an application for military spouses instead.

Response by Sgt John Koliha made Mar 1 at 2016 1:01 PM

2016-03-01T13:01:35-05:00

Iknow that this is what has kept me from participating. I am a Vietnam Era (mid 60's) disabled retired Marine and the WW II and Korean War makeup just was a turn off. I think if you looked you would find a lower rate of participation for my contemporaries than for any other group. Maybe some guys joined when they were older, but right after ser ice, practically no one joined these organizations.

Justmy opinion. I couldld be wrong.

Response by TSgt Lars Eilenfeld made Mar 1 at 2016 1:07 PM

2016-03-01T13:07:14-05:00

No their not to conservative in fact they are supposed to be non-partisan, with their only focus being helping vets so religion and politics has nothing to do with these organizations. If you have been a member as you say then you would know this, if however the posts you have been a member of allows this you need to bring this up at a members meeting citing in the constitution and by laws that the post is out of order promoting these views. The climate today presented by what is referred to as a commander in chief is one of divisiveness and contempt for those he serves. The inherent problem with these organizations with younger vets is their inability to change. Many younger vets such as myself and my wife have tried to be a helping force within the organization in the state we reside, unfortunately those who have been in the organizations longer and are of an older generation do not want to and in some cases vehemently refuse to change with the times. All to often when new vets with ideas bring them up to the established good old boys club they are shot down at every turn. Women are not treated any better, my wife on numerous occasions has been made to feel that her 20+ years of service and the fact that she is a disabled combat vet counted for nothing due to her gender. Now this is not the feeling of all the males in these organizations but when this behavior is brought up to the sections at the National level the response is that there is nothing that can be done about it. In the state we reside these organizations offer many programs but the majority of the time none of them are pursued due to complete lack of interest from the members who are retired and have time to give to them, ultimately turning the organizations into nothing more than recruiting posts to replenish the losses from those member who see no value in continued associations. You may not like this post, you may not agree with it but in my state this is the reality of the organizations and until the thought process of the good old boys changes, or they simply die off nothing else will and these organizations will die along with them.

Response by SPC Robert Brooks made Mar 1 at 2016 1:11 PM

2016-03-01T13:11:42-05:00

I am a member of the American Legion The youngest 1 in most I stop at, I am 48 now. But I really enjoy just sitting there and listening to the Older guys, about how hard it was. Makes me feel that I surely didn't have it as bad as they did. War and Conflicts are not fun, loosing a brother is Hard. I have to say, when I am around others that have seen what we have and been through it, I find Peace for that time Regardless of there age. These guys are a dying Bread, it is up to us to carry on this Tradition of Comradery be it American Legion or VFW.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 1:32 PM

2016-03-01T13:32:29-05:00

I got a lot of crap for having sleeve tattoos and piercings so I stopped dealing with the American Legion. I'm still pretty much as conservative as they are.

Response by CPO Kirk Rosa made Mar 1 at 2016 1:46 PM

2016-03-01T13:46:48-05:00

As a very active member of the VFW, I think you have to look further than to just the Post for that answer. The one thing the VFW did many years ago, was to get rid of the political action committee. That was a good move in my opinion. A lot of the VFW post are starting to change though and become more family friendly. Closing down the canteen and finding other ways to make the Post work and with high success. My Post has no post home. We do just fine that way. We also have all OIF/OEF officers and they are doing an outstanding job. We are recruiting many new members(of the younger generation). So it can be done. It is all up to the membership(most important part of the VFW) to decide what the Post do and how it succeeds.

Response by CSM Jerry Johns made Mar 1 at 2016 1:53 PM

2016-03-01T13:53:17-05:00

As a retired Army Infantry CSM I can tell you that the Veterans Organizations of today are trying their very best to help todays Soldiers and Veterans. One of the main problems that I have found on my travels to different installations each year is the huge decline in standards for all Military and even up into the top leadership. The dedication to the service is not there like it has to be. The Military Service and pride in it come first in a Soldiers live above everything else and family has to understand they are second. Times have changed and our Military has weakened but the Veterans Organizations still maintain the standards that are required to keep America free and helping Veterans and their families is the main mission. This is not just my opinion but a very obvious observation by many other senior NCO's and higher level Officers. We really wish we could come back and bring the standards back up where they should be but we can't. Believe me when I say that I and thousands of other retired Military are very worried and concerned about this Country's security with todays Military because it has gone down that far.

Response by SSG Eddye Royal made Mar 1 at 2016 1:55 PM

2016-03-01T13:55:04-05:00

SFC Fullerton, In the Dallas, Tx area, I have seen first hand that the people from OIF signup and join both organizations and enjoy the groups and learn, we also try to help the get and show them different ways to get ahead in education and finding employment that we did not have in the 1990's during the RIFF so that it won't happen to them if they are in Transitioning out of the military to Cilivian job, or to another Federal position through USA.job.com

Response by SPC Javier Ortiz made Mar 1 at 2016 2:24 PM

2016-03-01T14:24:35-05:00

History has proven that every generation brings with it new ideas, achievements and setbacks. Today's generation, in my opinion, is technologically advanced and living in the "ME" era (personal needs come first). Instant gratification is key to their survival (just watch and see what happens when a 20-something cannot find a good WiFi signal). Forgive my digression; values have changed between yesterday's and today's generations. This directly affects our social outlook. While older Vets want to meet in person and discuss religion and politics, younger Vets would rather FB and chat online. Religion and politics are not, in my experience, the younger generation's concern. They tend to take more of a "live and let live" position. To that end, I would opine that ours (the older Veteran organizations) is a dying class. Once we are gone, teleconferences and chat rooms will be the new way of doing things.

Now, my question is: What can be done to preserve tradition between the new and older Veteran generations?

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Mar 1 at 2016 3:51 PM

2016-03-01T15:51:58-05:00

I think it has less to do with politics as much as overall priorities. Many of the new age Veteran NPO speak to what younger veterans want to do. Sports, parties and fun activities. Wounded Warrior Project will send you to concerts, water sports or even fly you to a city of your choice for a full expenses paid bike riding adventure. Many of the older vets want to hang out and drink. That isn't appealing to everyone.

The problem with the new age NPOs is that they are flashy but have no real content or agenda. They also have no voice on capital hill when it comes to veterans rights and issues. I only see DAV, American Legion and VFW storming the hill for change or voicing true problems.

Response by Maj Drew Gilchrist made Mar 1 at 2016 3:53 PM

2016-03-01T15:53:21-05:00

As a founding member of a non-profit geared towards younger veterans, most of the members I've worked with embrace conservative values relative to the general population that never served and sacrificed in uniform. We host Outdoor Adventures, Disaster Missions, and helping brothers and sisters in need. Our guys love shooting guns, obstacle course races, are Patriotic, Ronald Reagan fans, etc.... They tend to hate the liberal / socialist / politically correct agenda's in our country.

The primary reason that led us to start a non-profit was the American Legion and VFW's were not providing a variety of fun, action based activities that challenged us physically and mentally. The Legion played a huge role in my WWII dad's life in the 40's and 50's. It was a drinking club / safe house / social network where veterans were comfortable and had fun. In todays world, the formal meeting structure and lack of activities may not appeal to younger vets, but the organization still serves many older veterans. I think it's the activities and mission, not the conservative culture that leads vets to other non-profits.

Social Media also fills many gaps for today's veterans. A lot of military units have private face book pages where members can communicate and support each other. So the old brick and mortar non-profit halls like the Legion and VFW have been replaced with technology based member networks.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Mar 1 at 2016 4:28 PM

2016-03-01T16:28:41-05:00

Most will change AFTER the idiot in chief now residing in that office,departs same.

Response by MAJ Joe C Mayfield made Mar 1 at 2016 5:17 PM

2016-03-01T17:17:22-05:00

I was upset with America Legion when they backed GHWB 41 after his speech in SEP that he said was the day Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. I quit when they backed the man with no military experience instead of Tammy Duckworth, wounded Iraq Veteran who lost an arm and 2 legs.

Response by SGT Allen Goatcher made Mar 1 at 2016 5:51 PM

2016-03-01T17:51:00-05:00

This question is a interesting one for me for we at my Vet organization just asked this very same question about you younger guys and how to get you to come to our orgnization. Which is pretty hard already for we live in a dry county and all other clubs I have seen from Arizona to here are centered around the bar. Which to me is heading the wrong direction. I belong to the VFW riders group and the American Legion Riders which both are even tighter group than the clubs themselves. WE meet every Monday and Friday for coffee talk out different ideas of how to get you guys to come out to coffee. You don't even need to be a member to enjoy a cup of joe. I think that is how we all are, wanting to open a line of communication between us and you to figure out what it is exactly you guys need/want. I am not from the Veitnam war but I socialize with them for they are the largest group. That does not mean I dislike them, I find myself a kindred spirit with them for I am only a Cold war Vet. I find that does not matter because I have my own crosses to bare and some have had the honor to hear about them. They are also closer to my age and I am getting benefits from the VA under the Veitnam era GI Bill. I would suggest visiting every club around where you live and visit and see if there is one you like. Please do not go in and set at a table by yourself drink a drink and leave. Give it a chance tell them your new and would like to know something about the club before joining and ask them the hard questions and I am sure you may get some back.

Response by SFC Raymond Koeller made Mar 1 at 2016 8:15 PM

2016-03-01T20:15:30-05:00

Green Bay is Neo-con central in Northern Wisconsin so this is a big problem here. There are more liberal and progressive soldiers than people think but to be a member here, you either have to bite your tongue or live with being a pariah. WAY too much politics and religion in these organizations. Politics wasn't a very big concern during the early part of my career but they sure seem to get pretty important once you hit SSG (E-6), in the military and out.

Response by Amn Anne Hofferkamp made Mar 1 at 2016 8:18 PM

2016-03-01T20:18:32-05:00

If you don't like the way your post is being run, get involved. Go to a meeting, volunteer for a committee, serve as an officer. Longevity is key. I've been a TAL member since '92. Remember that TAL has a history of discrimination of younger servicemembers. Years ago it was run by WW2 vets with an iron fist. The Vietnam/Korean vets weren't allowed to make decisions/be an officer, etc because the WW2 guys had say so. Now Vietnam vets are running the show. They remember what it was like when they started out as members and find it hard to give up power (some of them anyways). If your post has 20 members, there's a good chance you can affect change quickly. If your post is larger it may take some time. Quite often, the same people are officers because they are the only ones who volunteer. Step up if you want to see change.

Response by Sgt William Barr made Mar 1 at 2016 9:44 PM

2016-03-01T21:44:13-05:00

WOW Is the VFW and the Legion, to American for the Young vets? we all started as young vets and if we move left that means we fought for communism not freedom

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Mar 2 at 2016 12:35 AM

2016-03-02T00:35:02-05:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner. The modern Veterans Service Organizations all have been born since WW I and the big issues was Veterans Healthcare especially for men that were exposed to chemical agents and the promised Veterans Bonus. The bonus was scheduled to be paid in 1946, a lot of veterans saw they were not going to live that long and wanted it paid now in 1932. A very interesting story. The VSO 's can be very handy in processing a VA claim. You will have to join to get any service, but for most who go this way it's definitely worth the money. Since the VSO's are political organizations the y reflect the current political make up of the US military. When we had conscription there definitely were some moderate to liberal influences in the organizations, but no longer. The enlisted ranks of the US military are recruited form military friendly and targeted areas of the country, targeted are southerners, working class kids and a strong religious belief is not turned away. High School Graduates preferred but, things can be worked out. Criminal records, the ones that never got caught are preferred. You will find the same attitudes are to be found at you local American Legion or VFW Bar.

Response by Col Jeffrey Swegel made Mar 2 at 2016 7:45 AM

2016-03-02T07:45:45-05:00

No, yes, yes, no, yes. But your second to last question is too presumptuous....they do not have different views than I unless you mean they are mostly democrats, which they are.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Mar 2 at 2016 7:49 AM

2016-03-02T07:49:54-05:00

I'm tired of being told I need to moderate to accommodate liberals. Let them start their own organization with their own values.

Response by SGT Eliyahu Rooff made Mar 2 at 2016 8:00 AM

2016-03-02T08:00:58-05:00

I'm 67 years old and they're too conservative for me.

Response by SFC Bill Graser made Mar 2 at 2016 8:15 AM

2016-03-02T08:15:39-05:00

Is it important to you as a veteran to be part of a local veterans club and participate in the traditional activities such as fund raisers, annual parades, burial details, school visits, etc.? YES
Should religion and politics be a focal point for Veterans Organizations? NO

Response by COL Ronald Diana made Mar 2 at 2016 8:47 AM

2016-03-02T08:47:51-05:00

Frankly I am not sure since I have not joined either one. As a older vet, but having been in Iraq and Afghanistan I don't think what I have seen within them fits me right now. I join Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans Association. It seems better suited to our younger Vets. I will say that if larger groups of today's Vets join then the dynamic might change. As to whether they are too right wing, let's face it, the average Vet is generally right of center.

Response by SP5 Rick Mayson made Mar 2 at 2016 9:37 AM

2016-03-02T09:37:40-05:00

I pray that every veteran regardless of age shares the same values such as Love of GOD, love of Family and love of Country! Last night at AL Post 233 monthly meeting I fellow shipped with a Veteran that was 20 years my junior! We listened to reports of the work done to assist other veterans, our school aged youth with various projects and our community. We reminisced about our service days and how we would do it all over again to defend the principles upon which our great Country were formed. There is a bond among 1%'ers that transcends age!!!

Response by CPO Greg Smith made Mar 2 at 2016 10:33 AM

2016-03-02T10:33:08-05:00

Every member of the organizations you are speaking about has the same vote, no matter what their age or how long they have been a member. The VFW, for example, has done much for today's veterans. As we speak delegations from every state are in Washington DC in force on Capital Hill meeting with members of Congress. Last week our National Commander met with President Obama one-on-one. If you haven't already, join and be a part of the solution.

Greg Smith

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Mar 2 at 2016 12:33 PM

2016-03-02T12:33:29-05:00

With the charter/post structure of these organizations, does the strict democratic system create an unnecessary bureaucracy? Especially if less than 20% of a post membership participates and attends meetings? That would indicate that 80% of members support the national mission of the group, but are apathetic to active participation in the local post. Would a different organizational structure similar to professional military associations be more productive that the "pulpit and gavel" of the traditional fraternal club model?

Response by SFC Raymond Thibault made Mar 2 at 2016 1:25 PM

2016-03-02T13:25:52-05:00

I don't think so, we at VFW Post 8175 Elkton Memorial, have a cross section, Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, Iraq and Afghanistan. We have also adopted a Hos and Heroes Chapter, A Disabled American Veterans Chapter and a Paralyzed Veterans Chapter.

Response by SFC Raymond Thibault made Mar 2 at 2016 1:26 PM

2016-03-02T13:26:14-05:00

Oh we do talk Religion or Politics, starts fights.

Response by SSgt Jason Branch made Mar 2 at 2016 4:05 PM

2016-03-02T16:05:07-05:00

I feel that these organizations have stood up for patriotism and traditional values that have been passed down from generation to generation, and not only that, they have events that can be enjoyed by vets of all ages. As our schools shift more to the left, it is imperative that we not abandon our core beliefs for political correctness. We also have to show younger veterans that we are with them when it comes to getting their benefits or those who might be going to school and face an onslaught of criticism from the pc crowd who are still out there that think they should be ashamed of being a veteran. I'm a member of the Legion and soon AMVETS as well.

Response by PO2 Jonathan Conroy made Mar 2 at 2016 6:01 PM

2016-03-02T18:01:52-05:00

Use of the term "Right Wing" identifies you as the outlier. The Constitution and patriotism isn't a "wing."

Response by MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht made Mar 2 at 2016 9:45 PM

2016-03-02T21:45:59-05:00

Well SFC, you pose 4 questions. First of all, the younger generation has no knowledge of what WW1, 2, or Korea went through. Our values are considerably higher than those of today. If you feel you do not want to be part of any activities of your local club, feel free to do so. Some of us enjoy these activities and feel that some how we are giving back.

Response by SFC J Fullerton made Mar 2 at 2016 10:28 PM

2016-03-02T22:28:37-05:00

If VSO's are politically neutral and not allowed to endorse candidates in uniform, then this is a bad image.

Response by MSG Gary Saffell made Mar 3 at 2016 1:58 AM

2016-03-03T01:58:15-05:00

As a Member of both the American Legion and the VFW, I 100% agree with your Post PO2 Gerry Tandberg.
Without the support and encouragement from the members of these two organizations, I would not be the person I am today. Vietnam and Desert Storm. There were members that had the experience to recognize the challenges, and what was available to help because of their organizations efforts with Washington DC. They both have "challenges" but the real deal is that they help young or old members with no political requirement needed.
No one is forcing anyone to join. Look at it and see how you joining, along with your Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine, Coast Guard buddies, can make a difference in the programing. No need to be whining or complaining, do what you can to make it your Post. Get involved. Each Legion or VFW Post is different but basically and foundationally the same. Focused on the Veteran and our challenges. Join . . . make a difference in your community.

Response by Col Jim Harmon made Mar 3 at 2016 12:23 PM

2016-03-03T12:23:17-05:00

It is all in what you as an individual make of it. I belong to both and enjoy both.

Too conservative? Some of the greatest debates I have ever had occurred in the AL over the issues of gun rights, homosexuality in the military, social programs, etc. I have engaged with members who run the gambit from open homosexuals to far right “Freemen”. And we have had great times debating the issues at hand. But at the end of the day we slapped each other on the back and walked away as friends. Because we all shared that mutual respect of being veterans. If you go in looking for a fight you will find one. These are veterans just like you, and they will turn into the challenge just like you. If you go in and treat everyone with respect then you will be treated with respect. Even when you disagree.

Too old? You are missing something vital here. As an OEF/OIF veteran I have greatly enjoyed talking to veterans from Vietnam, Korea and WWII. These guys are tremendous sources of knowledge. I can say that I have been granted the great honor to meet warriors from previous generations who fought at Khe Sanh, Chosin Reservoir, Tarawa, Bastogne. My God these are living pieces of history. They don’t tell their stories to just anyone. But to another vet they will open up and share, if you will do the same.

I know one AL in Savannah, GA that is the "in place" for lesbian gatherings on Thursday nights and homosexual gatherings on Friday nights. It also has one of the most popular Canteens going for the local college crowd. The Veterans can either hang out in the public Canteen or move to the private members only area in back. There is another AL in Savannah that hosts dancing groups that range from Belly Dancers to Line Dancers four or five nights a week.

If you want your local AL or VFW to be more modern and offer more in the way of fitness activity and sports related activities. Then get involved and volunteer to head up something. If you just want to show up and drink, then don’t expect the Post to read your mind and offer what you want.

This isn’t Burger King. You want it to offer more, then volunteer and start the offering.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2016 1:45 PM

2016-03-04T13:45:19-05:00

The military, in and of itself, tends to be conservative in nature. As such, veterans tend to adopt many of those traits as well. This follows into civilian life for many.
Many of the founders of the major VSOs had their ideas treated as radically liberal by some in society. The thought in the early 1900s that a person who served their country should be accorded special consideration in regards to health care, educational benefits and disability compensation was greeted with shock.
Our rituals and ceremonies are no different from any other fraternal order or society in their basis going back to the founding days of the organization.
I first joined the VFW and Legion when I was in the service at the age of 24, so I guess I have a slightly different perspective in that I became as active as duty considerations allowed and at one point received the MOVSM for the stuff I was doing with the local veterans.

Response by COL David S. made Mar 5 at 2016 11:58 AM

2016-03-05T11:58:33-05:00

I really don't think that a question of conservative or liberal is the question. The veterans that I know just want to do something constructive. Many of the posts just "are". They have meetings to discuss nothing and very mundane issues. We need more posts both VFW and American Legion to get involved in homeless veteran issues/education issues and finding activities for disabled veterans. That is why some competing organizations have sprung up. Just my opinion.....

Response by CW5 John Hinkle made Mar 6 at 2016 4:57 PM

2016-03-06T16:57:49-05:00

We all swore a oath to uphold and obey the Constitution of the United States of America. These organization only appear to be right wing to those individuals who like some elected officials forget their oath and want to rewrite the Constitution to match governments in Europe that do not hold the same values that our founding fathers did.

Response by SrA Joseph Salnicky made Mar 9 at 2016 9:07 AM

2016-03-09T09:07:31-05:00

I went to a VFW once and have not been back and that was 20 years ago. They make you feel as if you don't belong there. Its like sitting in a room by yourself .You sit on one side and 40 people on the other side. I use to belong to AL but there so far apart you'd have to drive 50 miles to get to an AL. After getting out of the military i like the people i hang with some military some not.

Response by SSG Ray Elliott made Mar 14 at 2016 6:20 PM

2016-03-14T18:20:59-04:00

At 55 as a retiree I don't consider myself part of the new generation of Veterans. I'm a member of both the VFW and the American Legion but I'm not very active. I'm not a conservative, but have other reasons besides politics for not being more active in the American Legion and VFW. I support the Lobbying that these organizations do on behalf of veterans on a National level (and that's why I maintain my membership). I find at the local level the Legion Posts and VFW are more social clubs and the activities revolve more around maintaining the bar business than they do serving the needs of veterans. I just don't have the time to go to meetings for the sake of going to a meeting and then hitting the bar. There are many activities and groups who we can devote our time to, and I just don't have the time to devote to an organization who at least at the local level is more about maintaining the post home as a cheap place to drink, than it is about helping veterans with their issues. If they were actively trying to raise money to help local veterans with important issues ie: Help with Job placement, homelessness, counselling and treatment for addictions, etc. I would be more inclined to be active.

Response by SFC Bill Graser made Mar 17 at 2016 2:39 PM

2016-03-17T14:39:37-04:00

I 69 years old and a Vietnam veteran. I was placed on the PDL (disability) after nearly 13 years active service. The local legion is very active in my community and supports many activities. Annual parades, school visits, spending time each month at the local veterans nursing home and interacts with the in-house veterans. I do believe the younger veterans have slightly different views but would like to see more of them join. Membership changes from generation to generation and perhaps moving in a different direction isn't a bad concept.

Response by Cpl Harry Hanna made Mar 18 at 2016 10:23 PM

2016-03-18T22:23:19-04:00

When the VFW didn't endorse Tammy Duckworth and endorsed a non veteran instead. That was the end of my respect & membership. Up until that, I had been a member sense 1965. Keep Religion & Politics outside the club.

Response by SPC Holly Kagey made Jun 14 at 2016 2:15 PM

2016-06-14T14:15:16-04:00

I am seriously non-politics...which is strange, but I turn it off when it gets above my head and I start drowning in lingo I don't understand. I also deal a lot with Vet service organizations in my job, and I frankly couldn't care less about how right or left wing they are. They do their job as far as myself and the vets I serve are concerned.

Response by SGT James Hammons made Jun 16 at 2016 2:06 PM

2016-06-16T14:06:48-04:00

Here is my response from the Hurst Post in Texas, We do not talk about each others politics and CVA does not talk about politics, we do however hold to our core values. Veterans issues and veterans themselves are first and foremost on our mind. I myself am probably more toward the middle.

Response by SPC Franklin McKown made Jun 16 at 2016 6:57 PM

2016-06-16T18:57:24-04:00

We fully intend to change it back,if you happen to disagree I suggest you not discuss the current POLITICALLY CORRECT invasion we are at war with, as it represents a clear and present threat to America.
As to Repub ,Dems fights ,it's election year

Response by SGT James Hammons made Jun 23 at 2016 12:15 PM

2016-06-23T12:15:38-04:00

Call it right wing or left wing. The simple fact is there are some common sense things that we as veterans hold as truths,

Honor and defend the constitution from enemies foreign and Domestic
Do not spend more that you make
Protect the American People
Stand by your fellow veterans
Support the military
Help Veterans in Need.
And LDRSHIP

Loyalty
Duty
Respect
Selfless Service
Honor
Integrity
Personal Courage

Call it what you will - I am a Patriot and hold to my right to Worship as I please, To Work Hard, To volunteer as much as I can in my community. I am so tired of this give me mentality. Get up, Get your ass to work, and make your world a better place. We are not far right because we believe in God, Country, and Family. This is what the country was founded on. Stop listening to the Liberal Lies. Do your own research, America has done more good than harm.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 23 at 2016 2:39 PM

2016-06-23T14:39:28-04:00

I don't think it's a politic gap, but an age/generational gap. While I may generally fall in line with the politics of my father, I don't necessarily approach problems and issues like he does.

Response by Nathan Weiss made Jun 30 at 2016 2:50 PM

2016-06-30T14:50:23-04:00

No. Conservative Right Wing is good.

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Jul 14 at 2016 9:25 PM

2016-07-14T21:25:59-04:00

I am a member of the American Legion. Yes many members maybe older but we are all Veterans!! We have to be supportive of these organizations. They're a forceful lobbyist to Congress. They're are members of the US Congress that are not supporters of the Military. If we are not watchful the benefits we've earned may be dismantled. There is a movement now to privatize the VA, get rid of Veterans Preference in hiring. Next could be to privatize the Military!

Response by Cpl Jason Feimster made Oct 28 at 2017 1:17 AM

2017-10-28T01:17:22-04:00

The American Legion shall be absolutely nonpolitical and shall not be used for the dissemination of partisan principles nor for the promotion of the candidacy of any person seeking public office or preferment.

This means that The American Legion does not endorse candidates. All Legion Family members are required to leave their their Legion cap at the door of any political rallies, fundraisers or conventions.

In the early years, some saw this rule as a missed opportunity to get friends of the organization elected and keep enemies out. Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed, and the Legion’s party neutrality strengthened the organization’s integrity in Washington, as it still does.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Oct 29 at 2017 6:31 PM

2017-10-29T18:31:19-04:00

Yes

Response by SGT Debra Jahnel made Jul 23 at 2019 4:53 PM

2019-07-23T16:53:15-04:00

There's an old saying, "If you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative when you're old, you have no brain." Republican Representative for eastern TN, James Quillen, told me that 50 years ago.

Response by PV2 Frank Schaeffer made Sep 3 at 2021 3:14 PM

2021-09-03T15:14:00-04:00

Walked past a vfw today and was ashamed. When I served we were taught to respect the flag. Not to use it as a political statement. Not to fly it behind us but to carry it before us as it not put ourself before the country. not to tie it to a wall but to let it fly free. We defended ALL Americans regardless of color, creed, religion, or political belief. To see signs rhat if you don't believe the same way as they do to leave. Made my stomach turn. If the VFW stands for these unamerican values of freedom it is truly disgraceful to my fallen friends. Patriot? More like Selfish, self-centered and down right hateful.