Are logisticians over reliant on automation to solve sustainment problems??

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 10 Oct 2013 18:11:08 -0400

Trends reflect a lack of knowledge on how to develop logistical estimates and an over reliance on using automation to analyze the problem. What will logisticians do if they loose this asset for 1 day, 2 days, 5 days ect.

Response by SFC Chris Mackesy made Oct 11 at 2013 2:40 PM

SFC Chris Mackesy — Fri, 11 Oct 2013 14:40:11 -0400

I would answer yes they are. I dealt with this very problem early in 2003 during OIF1. I was one of a very few individuals able to perform my logistical functions because I knew the processes and procedures of the "manual" system. It took several months before the automation caught up during these early stages of the operation. The few "old timers" that had a solid understanding of logistics were able to function in the absence of automation support.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Oct 11 at 2013 2:57 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Fri, 11 Oct 2013 14:57:42 -0400

Sir, I like this question -- I was not a logistician by trade, but I did serve for awhile as Battalion S-4 for the Warrior Transition Battalion at Fort Knox. This unit's logistical processes were atypical, as the unit was highly transient, and each soldier's situation was different from that of the next, because everyone's medical challenges were unique and private between them and their Nurse Case Manager, etc. Anyway, we issued so many unique types of property items and this basically rendered or automated systems ineffective. It got to the point where I just had to go around and manually verify items with my team. So, in this instance I would answer "yes" to your question -- though I admit that I have limited expertise here.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 13 at 2013 12:09 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Oct 2013 12:09:41 -0400

Do we rely on automation to develop log estimates? I guess that depends on what you define as 'automation systems' - the Army really has automated the process in terms of developing a log estimate - LEW, OPLOG Planner, QLET, and the CASCOM Rates Portal, are great tools to help develop an estimate but they are all tools. Overall the Army has become dependent on automation with the reliance on CPOF, MCS, FBCB2/BFR, and other Command and Control systems. Unfortunately, our Army has not done a good job in creating, retaining, and passing on historical data to better develop a logistics/sustainment estimate. Further, the reliance on contracted support in bot Iraq and Afghanistan and the ability to not require units to develop estimates and plan for operations above the platoon level has created a tactical army that has lost the ability to plan/estimate our sustainment requirements. Now the Sustainment Community, and the Army, has become very reliant on automation - we cannot go very long without a VSAT to send maintenance data, order supplies through SARSS, or provide LOGSTAT data via BCS3/Excel.Our Army, the DoD, and our society have become reliant on automation systems...this phenomenon is nothing new and if you look at our reliance on technology over the last few years it should not be surprising.

Response by SPC Anthony Morton made Oct 15 at 2013 6:08 PM

SPC Anthony Morton — Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:08:06 -0400

I cant speak for all, I can only speak for myself. I will fall back on the manual version the logistical.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 15 at 2013 7:35 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Oct 2013 19:35:27 -0400

Sir, I think you will see a much more profound atrophy of this skill when you and the new 07s see the next DATE rotation. We've become comfortable with 14 DOS on FOBs in theater and do not understand sustainment on the move in contact. ROM is something foreign to too many units. Staffs fail to produce adequate estimates for CLs I, III, V, maintenance, medical, and struggle in positioning of headquarters to synchronize, integrate, and facilitate sustainment operations.All WfFs need to remember the necessity for analog backups and good old-fashioned staff work in lieu of automated systems that get hot, break, need contractors, etc.

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 22 at 2013 5:05 PM

SFC James Baber — Sun, 22 Dec 2013 17:05:47 -0500

I would have to agree with SFC M., even not being a logistician most units had to rely on the old school guys knowing how to do everything manually before the automation was able to be updated and catch up with us within the theater operations around June/July time frame.

This was something that I actually witnessed prior to the invasion as well in ODS.