Are Master, Senior and Chief Petty Officers appointed by the President, similar to Commission officers?

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 14:58:13 -0500

I have been told by a friend that in the Navy the top three enlisted ranks are appointed by Presidential authority similar to Commissioned Officers. That this is a policy that goes back to the birth of the Navy and is still used today. And subsequently is the only branch that does this with there top three enlisted rates/ranks. Is this true or an old Wise tale? Thought some of you old Navy salts could shed some light on this subject. MCPO Roger Collins

Update:
After talking again with my friend he actually meant by Act of Congress but still believed the Navy is the only branch that receives Congressional appointment for the top three E-7 thru E-9.

I’ve always been under the impression that Congress dictated how many E-7 to E-9 slots each Service will have. And also they all must go through the boards. I have always understood that it would take a special or general court-martial to reduce the rate/rank of any services E-7 thru E-9. Many just use the term Act of Congress (because it can be difficult) even though that is not really the case.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jan 24 at 2021 3:12 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:12:59 -0500

I would think not. That doesn't seem to be my recollection.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jan 24 at 2021 3:17 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:17:14 -0500

No, nothing that extravagant. The processes and boards are tough, but no Presidential attention. I had the advantage of liking to be tested, written and boards. BTW, unless things have changed, these processes only applied to E-8/9 pay grades. If the process has changed over past years, I’m sure someone will correct me.

Response by SMSgt David A Asbury made Jan 24 at 2021 3:49 PM

SMSgt David A Asbury — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 15:49:52 -0500

E-9's are limited to one percent of the total Air Force, E-8's are limited to 2%. Not sure of the E-7s.

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Jan 24 at 2021 4:03 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 16:03:41 -0500

The last time I went through the process, E-7 and up was act of congress. That's Army, why would any other be different

Response by SFC Kenneth Hunnell made Jan 24 at 2021 5:14 PM

SFC Kenneth Hunnell — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 17:14:44 -0500

The president recommends positions in there own cabinet to cabinet positions, he can let his cabinet members go. That is all.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2021 7:13 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 19:13:58 -0500

This seems pretty comprehensive and makes no mention of presidential appointment.

https://usnhistory.navylive.dodlive.mil/2019/11/01/the-history-of-navy-rank-or-rate-enlisted-personnel/

The History of Navy Rank (or Rate): Enlisted Personnel | The Sextant

By Nicholas Roland, Historian, Naval History and Heritage Command From left: First Class Petty Officer, Third Class Petty Officer, Lieutenant (j.g.), Lieutenant

Response by LTJG Richard Bruce made Jan 24 at 2021 10:22 PM

LTJG Richard Bruce — Sun, 24 Jan 2021 22:22:38 -0500

Your friend is incorrect.

Individual O-1 through O-4 are automatically approved by Congress as a practical matter. Congress accepts the nominations of each service heads. Individual O-5 and up are not automatically approved en masse. Members of Congress can object to nominations for a variety of reasons.

Individual senior enlisted members, E-7 to E-10, are not submitted to Congress for approval. What Congress does is limited their numbers. Each service head approved those on a promotion list.

Commissioned officers serve indefinitely, at the pleasure of the President. Enlisted members serve per contract with a definite end period.

As of March 2019, the Navy had 273,823 enlisted members on active duty. Here's how it breaks down, by enlisted rank.

• Seaman Recruit (E-1) - 12,398
Seaman Apprentice (E-2) - 15,021
• Seaman (E-3) - 43,070
• Petty Officer Third Class (E-4) - 52,904
• Petty Officer Second Class (E-5) - 69,067
• Petty Officer First Class (E-6) - 50,997
• Chief Petty Officer (E-7) - 21,165
• Senior Chief Petty Officer (E-8) - 6,579
• Master Chief Petty Officer (E-9) - 1,584

Promotion Boards
Navy-wide Promotion Boards are used for promotion to Chief Petty Officer (E-7), Senior Chief Petty Officer (E-8) and Master Chief Petty Officer (E-9). Those that are qualified for selection board consideration are considered “Selection Board Eligible” (SBE). E-7 candidates are designated SBE by completing the advancement exam and meeting the final multiple requirements for their rate; E-8 & E-9 are designated SBE on the basis of their CO / OIC Advancement recommendation.

Time in Rate (TIR) requirements for promotion to E-8 and E-9 are:

• Senior Chief Petty Officer (E-8) - 36 months TIR
• Master Chief Petty Officer (E-9) - 36 months TIR

Each selection board consists of a captain (O-6) who serves as president, a junior officer from BUPERS advancement section, who serves as a recorder, and officers and master chief petty officers who serve as board members.

Additionally, a sufficient number of assistant recorders ensure the smooth handling of records. The exact size of a board varies, but each board usually consists of about 78 members. The board meets in Washington, D.C., and officer board members are generally drawn from the D.C. area. The enlisted members are usually from out of town.

The recorder, assistant recorders, officer of the Chief of Naval Personnel (CNP) enlisted advancement planner and Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy may consult with the entire board on any matter concerning selections. With the board president's concurrence, the recorder divides the board members into panels, which are responsible for reviewing the records of individuals in one general professional area, i.e., deck, engineering, medical/dental, etc. Each panel consists of at least one officer and one master chief.

A maximum select quota for each rating is established by BUPERS planners and is provided to the board. This quota is filled by the "best-qualified" candidates. Quotas may not be exceeded but may remain unfilled if the panel determines there is an insufficient number of best-qualified candidates in a rating.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 25 at 2021 9:01 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 09:01:36 -0500

E-7 thru E-9 are selected by senior Officers/NCO's of that respective branch in a formal board setting reviewing packets. There's no Congressional or Presidential oversight. That's just an old wives tale. No branch is different.

Response by SN Jeffrey White made Jan 25 at 2021 10:33 AM

SN Jeffrey White — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 10:33:25 -0500

This seaman knows the answer. A bill is sent to congress for all the armed services. Congress must decide how many can serve in each rank above E4. (this many army E4, E5 etc, this many navy E4 E% etc). This includes officers. The process to be promoted is then up to the individual branch of service. I'm not sure at what rank that stops. For example a 4 star general, may need additional approval.

Response by CPO Heidi Cermak made Jan 25 at 2021 11:55 AM

CPO Heidi Cermak — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 11:55:47 -0500

CPOS are appointed by a selection board. Only 10% are app0inted. CPOS are the backbone of the navy, they are the technical experts, CPOS know how to get the job done. I heard a story of a new ensign yelling at a senior chief on a ship. the skipper took the ensign aside and counseled him not to yell at senior chiefs.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jan 25 at 2021 12:14 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Mon, 25 Jan 2021 12:14:10 -0500

Response by CPO Don Campbell made Jan 26 at 2021 10:58 AM

CPO Don Campbell — Tue, 26 Jan 2021 10:58:23 -0500

Presidential appointment not qualified...Ha...no way its God and Jesus Christ...of course I am joking and I am not aware of any Presidential or congressional appointment...I have heard that only a flag can bust a CPO, SCPO, MCPO but never been in that situation so it may be scuttlebutt...the difference is the initiation process which I interpreted as giving U back bone to go toe to toe with junior enlisted and senior officers if necessary without fear of loosing Ur anchors...as a CPO I mapped out my own territory like a wolf does and made the rules in my territory...the primary objective being taking care of my people, training them, discipline them if that is what they wanted, and protecting them...as a CPO an additional responsibility is doing the same for officers as well...with Officers U do it privately and with respect and military curiosities but in such a way that they know to or not to do something but they don't realize they just got their asses chewed by a CPO...once in Dodge riding the bus to the hangar it made a stop to pick up junior Enlisted and here comes three Officers walking up without covers...arriving at the hangar I called the 3 Officers over away from everyone and told them I need U guys to help me and I explained how Junior Enlisted watch them and will copy them...these were senior O-3s but they got the message...the only regret I have is I really lite in to this O-3 because he was doing something that was dumb and could get my people in trouble...that was the last time I saw him because I transferred soon after...he was killed in the Pentagon as was the Captain i worked for when I made CPO...so I think it is just a difference between the Navy and other branches of military...this April will be 20 years since I retired (March 2001 during my retirement physical Navy psychiatrist diagnoised me with ptsd...VA finally rated me for ptsd March 2020...100% service connected and gave me individual unemployability and deemed my ptsd "total and complete" meaning I am not going to get better...for me VA more dangerous than any combat mission I flew on...burns my ass up) anyway I think the CPO initiation is viewed as hazing but if so it was hazing with a purpose...Aloha

Response by MCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2021 7:35 PM

MCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2021 19:35:45 -0500

E8 and E9 are the only quotas mandated by percentage for all services.

As for Navy Chiefs(CPO, SCPO, MCPO): YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES AND PRIVILEGES DO NOT APPEAR IN PRINT. THEY HAVE NO OFFICIAL STANDING; THEY CANNOT BE REFERRED TO BY NAME, NUMBER, NOR FILE. THEY HAVE EXISTED FOR OVER 100 YEARS, BECAUSE CHIEFS BEFORE YOU HAVE FREELY ACCEPTED RESPONSIBILITY BEYOND THE CALL OF PRINTED ASSIGNMENT. THEIR ACTIONS AND THEIR PERFORMANCE DEMANDED THE RESPECT OF THEIR SENIORS AS WELL AS THEIR JUNIORS. (Excerpt from the Chief Petty Officers Creed)

Response by SCPO Geary Long made Jun 23 at 2021 11:04 AM

SCPO Geary Long — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 11:04:22 -0400

They must go through boards for selection. I've worked a boars while stationed at BUPERS as a detailer.
Don't know about "Act of Congress" to demote, but it does take a court martial to reduce. I also think an Admirals Mast can as well.

Response by CPO Don Campbell made Jul 12 at 2021 4:04 PM

CPO Don Campbell — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:04:37 -0400

no.

Response by SCPO Victor Glaviano made Jul 14 at 2021 11:51 PM

SCPO Victor Glaviano — Wed, 14 Jul 2021 23:51:16 -0400

No...only E-8 and E-9 are congressionaly allotted, most more than 3% (2% E-8 & 1% E-9), that's across all branches. Although they are not promoted by name because they don't hold commissions or office like an Officer... Hence the term Officer!

Response by SCPO Loyd Marlow made Aug 17 at 2021 9:18 AM

SCPO Loyd Marlow — Tue, 17 Aug 2021 09:18:54 -0400

I experienced corrupt Ships captains giving illegal orders and demanding compliance.....I had the opportunity to teach a couple of them how the UCMJ works.....NO an E7 or above does not have to accept NJP and has many options from Admirals mast to Congressional review.....mere mention of Admirals mast where the CO would be a defendant same as me ended the arguments and garnered improved performance from the derelict individuals.....I hope it's still that way...been retired over 20 years.

Response by CPO Chief Pitts made Feb 21 at 2024 7:49 PM

CPO Chief Pitts — Wed, 21 Feb 2024 19:49:07 -0500

Why, why, would any CPO want to be even thought of as on the level of a "0"? Must be a democ...