Are military veterans (who have ETS'd or retired) allowed to mix their old military uniform with old unit T-shirt?

2016-07-11T23:35:53-04:00

Response by SSG Roger Ayscue made Jul 12 at 2016 12:04 AM

2016-07-12T00:04:44-04:00

you are required to wear your uniform IAW the regulation. IF you are wearing your old unit t shirt with your ACU or like pants, wile I have no problem with it, you might encounter those that do.

IF you wear your uniform complete it must be IAW Regulations

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 12:13 AM

2016-07-12T00:13:35-04:00

Why not they have earned it.

Response by SGT Emmanuel Cabahug made Jul 12 at 2016 12:40 AM

2016-07-12T00:40:15-04:00

Just clarify. The uniform in question is not your dress uniform but more like your ACU/Multicam uniform (which you were not able to turn in to CIF because you keep get to keep those). For example, mixing your multicam trousers with a veteran theme shirt, etc.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Jul 12 at 2016 2:45 AM

2016-07-12T02:45:18-04:00

I think it's technically okay for you to do so. Though be warned that some veterans/service members may call you out for it and ask you what's up. But it's up to you.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 12 at 2016 6:36 AM

2016-07-12T06:36:33-04:00

No-one will ever question the Tactical pants with a unit T-shirt. However you should not wear the entire uniform with all of your patches. Read the AR on line, and make this decision.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jul 12 at 2016 7:56 AM

2016-07-12T07:56:51-04:00

SGT Emmanuel Cabahug, AR 670-1 governs the wear of the uniform for those no longer serving and the two following paragraphs define who is eligible to wear it, when it may be worn and what type of uniforms are authorized:

"Chapter 23 Wear of the Army Uniform by Reserve, Retired, Separated, and Civilian Personnel

23–3. Retired personnel
a. Personnel who will be advanced to a higher grade upon retirement have the option of wearing the insignia of that grade thereafter.
b. Retired personnel on active duty will wear their uniform and insignia in the same manner as prescribed for personnel in the AA of corresponding grade and branch.
c. Retired personnel not on active duty may wear either the uniform reflecting their grade and branch on the date of their retirement, or the uniform prescribed for personnel in the AA of corresponding grade and branch, when appropriate, but may not mix the two uniforms. Personnel will wear the grade as shown on the retired grade of rank line on their retirement order.
d. Retired personnel not on active duty are not authorized to wear the Army uniform when they are instructors or responsible for military discipline at an educational institution, unless the educational institution is conducting courses of instruction approved by the Armed Forces.
e. In addition to the occasions for wear listed above, retired personnel are authorized to wear the uniform only on the following occasions: (1) While attending military funerals, memorial services, weddings, inaugurals, and other occasions of ceremony. (2) Attending parades on national or State holidays, or other patriotic parades or ceremonies in which any active or reserve U.S. military unit is taking part. Uniforms for these occasions are restricted to service and dress uniforms; the combat uniform and physical fitness uniforms will not be worn. Wearing the Army uniform at any other time, or for any other purpose than stated above, is prohibited.
f. Retirees are authorized to wear the physical fitness uniform under the following provisions: (1) With civilian attire off the installation. (2) When wearing the physical fitness uniform as a complete uniform, retirees will— (a) Wear only authorized accessories corresponding to those worn by personnel of the AA. (b) Wear the uniform in accordance with the guidance provided to AA Soldiers in DA Pam 670–1.
g. Retirees are authorized to wear the Retired Service ID Badge (see DA Pam 670–1).

23–4. Former members of the Army
a. Unless qualified under another provision of this regulation, or under the provisions of 10 USC 772, former members of the Army may only wear the uniform if they served honorably during a declared or undeclared war, and if their most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions. Personnel who qualify under these conditions will wear the Army uniform in the highest grade they held during such war service, in accordance with 10 USC 772.
b. When authorized, the uniform may be worn only for the following ceremonial occasions and when traveling to and from the event and must follow guidance included in paragraph 3–7c. (1) When attending military funerals, memorial services, weddings, inaugurals, and other occasions of ceremony. (2) When attending parades on national or State holidays, or other patriotic parades or ceremonies in which any active or reserve U.S. military unit is taking part. Uniforms for these occasions are restricted to service and dress uniforms; the combat uniform and physical fitness uniforms will not be worn. Wearing the Army uniform at any other time, or for any other purpose than stated above, is prohibited."

Both retirees and former members of the Army (if they served honorably during a declared or undeclared war) are only authorized to wear the service and dress uniforms, so I don't think the uniform of which you speak would be authorized under any circumstances, unless worn as regular items of clothing with no identifying Army markings or insignia.

Response by SGT Emmanuel Cabahug made Jul 12 at 2016 9:06 AM

2016-07-12T09:06:57-04:00

Finally found the AR 670-1 on this topic.

Army Veterans. Instructions are listed in paragraph 30-4 of Army Regulation 670-1.

Former members of the Army may wear the uniform if they served honorably during a declared or undeclared war, and if their most recent service was terminated under honorable conditions (that means an honorable or general discharge). Personnel who qualify under these conditions will wear the Army uniform in the highest grade they held during such war service.

The uniform is authorized for wear only for the following ceremonial occasions, and when traveling to and from the ceremony or function. Uniforms for these occasions are restricted to service and dress uniforms; the BDU and physical fitness uniforms will not be worn.

(1) When attending military funerals, memorial services, weddings, inaugurals, and other occasions of ceremony.

(2) When attending parades on national or state holidays, or other patriotic parades or ceremonies in which any active or reserve United States military unit is taking part.
Former Soldiers who are discharged honorably or under honorable conditions from the Army (even if it's not during wartime service) may wear their uniform while going from the place of discharge to their home of record, within three months after discharge.

Wear of the Army uniform at any other time, or for any other purpose than stated above, is prohibited.

Army Medal of Honor Recipients. Personnel awarded the Medal of Honor may wear the Army uniform at their pleasure, except:

(1) In connection with the furtherance of any political or commercial interests, or when engaged in off-duty civilian employment.

(2) When participating in public speeches, interviews, picket lines, marches, rallies, or public demonstrations, except as authorized by competent authority.

(3) When attending any meeting or event that is a function of, or is sponsored by, an extremist organization.

(4) When wearing the uniform would bring discredit upon the Army.

(5) When specifically prohibited by Army regulations.
Note: Any individual wearing a US Military uniform is expected to reflect the high personal appearance standards and esprit de corps that the US Military in uniform represent. To this end, particular attention will be paid not only to the correct and military wear of uniform components, but also to the individual’s personal and physical appearance. All personnel exercising the privilege of wearing a US Military service or dress uniform will comply fully with their service's grooming and weight control standards.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/uniformwearar.htm

Wear of the Uniform by Army Retirees and Veterans

Army retirees and certain honorably discharged veterans may wear the US Military uniform on certain occasions.

Response by GySgt John O'Donnell made Jul 12 at 2016 9:30 AM

2016-07-12T09:30:55-04:00

Ok, I do understand your point and have posted a similar question regarding dress uniform. That said, if the federal law allows non-service members to "dress up" under the guise of their 1st Amendment rights, why alienate someone who actually earned the right to wear the uniform. My best advise would be to communicate in a professional/calm manner the error without being demanding or demeaning based on the "common ground" of love of country and respect for tradition. If that doesn't effect change than just smile, thank them for the service, and walk away. In this day and age, it's not worth the personal aggravation. There are bigger issues in your world/country/state/city/town to be focused on and need your effort!!!

Response by SFC John Hill made Jul 12 at 2016 9:54 AM

2016-07-12T09:54:33-04:00

I presume you were referring to the Class "C” (fatigues, BDU, DCU, etc.) uniform. Once they have been phased out, technically under the USC, they are not considered a service uniform anymore. Exception to rule, i.e., authentic ceremonial uniforms worn by The Old Guard. One is supposed to remove the service identifying U.S. ARMY patch from said items, not sure about unit patch, rank, or badges (jump wings, CIB, etc.). Name tape, YOUR NAME is your name! As a retiree or honorably discharged prior service, if authorized to wear Class A’s/Dress Blues as per guidance in AR 670-1, they must be worn IAW the reg.

Response by SFC Phillip Wiley made Jul 12 at 2016 10:00 AM

2016-07-12T10:00:04-04:00

As long as it is worn sterilized then there should be no issue. If you apply patches of affiliation or anything else then it must be worn per 670-1.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 11:47 AM

2016-07-12T11:47:29-04:00

Better question is if you know they're retired or have ETS'd, why would you care?

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 2:01 PM

2016-07-12T14:01:32-04:00

Here's my viewpoint on uniform wear for vets. We've all seen it. Someone walking around wearing DCU pants and a t-shirt. I tend to look at it this way. 1, if it's no longer an "issue" uniform (DCU/BDU/etc), then it's not a regulation uniform and there's nothing to say about it. 2, so long as the person who's wearing whatever they're wearing aren't trying to claim to be military personnel, who cares? There's not one uniform that can't be picked up in an Army Surplus store now. 3, if the person wearing what ever uniform they're wearing IS in the military (Active, Guard, Reserves), but they're not wearing a complete uniform, then it's not a uniform, to me. What I mean is, if you have a reservist who's walking around wearing a set of ACU pants, boots, some sort of t-shirt, and a cap, is he in uniform? He wouldn't be if he was at his drill. The NCOs would start off with "Hey, Pri, you're out of uniform." Again, it goes back to what they're trying to do. If they're going around with the "I'm representing so-and-so unit" then they need to get corrected, fast.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 12 at 2016 2:49 PM

2016-07-12T14:49:31-04:00

The problem with this is that the UCMJ does not apply to civilians. Veterans are technically civilians. So the Army can publish guidance and hope that the intrinsic values you learned while serving would compel you to wear your uniform honorably, but ultimately there's no law that would apply to them. If a retired CSM wants to wear his cap backwards and his tan belt undone with boot laces untucked, wearing his unit PT shirt and no ACU blouse, he's well within his rights to do so--it's just extremely unlikely that he would, given that most veterans take pride in the uniform even after they take it off.

But to the point, are they "allowed" to? Yes. They're "allowed" to do whatever the hell they want. Trying to apply UCMJ to a civilian (veteran retiree or otherwise) is like trying to enforce a no-pooping rule with a baby: it doesn't make sense and you're just gonna end up with a lot of shit on your hands.

Response by Capt Gregory Prickett made Jul 12 at 2016 3:52 PM

2016-07-12T15:52:10-04:00

Technically it is against federal law (10 USC 771 et seq) to wear any part of a uniform outside of the regulations of the various branches. There is, however, no means of enforcement. It is not a federal crime, nor does it carry any civil penalties, nor are veterans subject to the UCMJ.

Second, every branch has different regulations on the matter, so citing only the AR on the issue doesn't always help. I remember going on a Army base, pre-beret time, and an Army MSG try to tactfully tell me that I need to get rid of the improper headgear (AF SP beret), and him not really understanding when I explained that was the proper headgear.

Each branch will react differently. IMO, GySgt John O'Donnell has the right idea.

Response by SGT Emmanuel Cabahug made Jul 12 at 2016 11:42 PM

2016-07-12T23:42:13-04:00

I appreciate the replies from my fellow veterans. I got the answer that I need.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2016 11:55 AM

2016-07-13T11:55:55-04:00

I suppose you can being a civilian and all. Though most peoples old uniforms just wind up being warm weather hunting clothes and camo shorts

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Jul 14 at 2016 7:38 PM

2016-07-14T19:38:48-04:00

IT"S Not appropriate I would think.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jul 18 at 2016 3:53 PM

2016-07-18T15:53:23-04:00

What is the intent of wearing the "mixed" uniform? Are you wearing your old ACU pants and boots while you do yard work? Are you playing paintball or hunting? Are you going to a political rally?

Response by SSG Joe Grassia made Aug 3 at 2016 4:16 PM

2016-08-03T16:16:42-04:00

Sgt Emmanuel
when you gt out you can wear what ever you want mix match whatever they can not tell you to take it off use them as work clothes if you wish ......Have a great day ..................

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Sep 6 at 2016 12:22 PM

2016-09-06T12:22:19-04:00

Generally I was taught by my 1SGT that you had to remove the U.S. ARMY tape from the uniform, the rank, and unit patch. Then you should be fine. In reality, nobody enforces this stuff and if your a civilian or Veteran nobody is going to give you citation unless your deliberately attempting to impersonate on Federal land somewhere.

Response by SSG Wally Lawver made Sep 6 at 2016 1:42 PM

2016-09-06T13:42:11-04:00

the only way you can hurt me, or any other retiree, or discharged service member,,, with 670-1,,,,,is if you print a copy out, and roll it up tightly to a point and poke me in the eye with it :)

Response by MSG Chad Smith made Sep 8 at 2016 4:38 AM

2016-09-08T04:38:33-04:00

I am a retired MSG. I was recently asked by a former soldier of mine who is still in to pin him at his SFC promotion ceremony on post. I was asked to wear my mulit-cam unifrm. Now that i am retired, I wonder if it is ok or am I restricted to dress uniforms only....thoughts?

Response by SPC Collie White made Jul 16 at 2018 7:27 PM

2018-07-16T19:27:39-04:00

LOL i dont care i earned it. Dont like it? Send me to court.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2019 5:37 PM

2019-04-19T17:37:54-04:00

My veteran father has been wearing random elements of my old PT uniforms for a couple of decades now. I'm surprised they are still serviceable.

Response by SGT Darryl Dykes made Oct 23 at 2019 12:04 PM

2019-10-23T12:04:52-04:00

Yes