Are offensive decals allowed on POVs on military installations?

2019-07-19T13:19:13-04:00

Are sexual/offensive decals/bumper stickers allowed on SM povs on military installations? Let's say a SM has a decal that reads, "Milf Hunter" or "I love sushi" on their POV is that allowed on post? In the recent case of State of Florida vs Webb, the supreme court ruled that offensive decals are constitutional protected under the 1st amendment. Is their any regulation regarding POVs and offensive material on them? Cant seem find any while trying to help in the search for it. Any thoughts? Your 1st amendment doesnt evaporate the second you drive onto base.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2019 1:24 PM

2019-07-19T13:24:34-04:00

Your last statement makes it sound like your vehicle is the one in question?

The short answer is that the Army gives great latitude to commanders and NCOs to determine what is allowed / not allowed even if not clearly delineated in regulation. Additionally, a different set of laws applies on installations versus the public.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2019 1:24 PM

2019-07-19T13:24:48-04:00

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jul 19 at 2019 1:41 PM

2019-07-19T13:41:17-04:00

A person enters the military, their rights change. Certain rights are infringed on and the courts have upheld this.

What is Free Speech protected for a civilian may likely not be for a service member. Never assume otherwise. A military member is bound by the UCMJ, DOD and Military regulations of which there are a plethora.

An enlisted member is a public employee, not a private citizen. Choose carefully which hill you choose to try to take, it may be the one you die on.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jul 19 at 2019 1:42 PM

2019-07-19T13:42:51-04:00

Really? If you can't speak or write it...

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Jul 19 at 2019 1:44 PM

2019-07-19T13:44:57-04:00

Your rights under the constitution are suspended when in military service and the UCMJ takes over. So, yes they can pinch you for offensive stickers.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2019 2:07 PM

2019-07-19T14:07:32-04:00

All I can say is that when I was a squad leader at Ft. Hood, a young specialist had a confederate flag on his truck, I took him to the airport to fly home on leave and he left his truck in the parking lot close to the base hospital. EO came looking for the owner, we told him the soldier was on leave, they made us go out there and put duct tape over the flag. They were afraid someone would complain about it. No biggie to us but seems a bit over the top.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2019 2:23 PM

2019-07-19T14:23:28-04:00

I would look very very hard for an Army, post or command policy giving guidance, and the I would privately tell the soldier in question to grow up.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jul 19 at 2019 2:30 PM

2019-07-19T14:30:28-04:00

Within reason and certain guidelines, you have the right to plaster whatever you want on your personally owned vehicle. Your Commander also has the right to tell you to remove them or park said vehicle outside the installation and walk to your appointed place of duty.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jul 19 at 2019 2:59 PM

2019-07-19T14:59:57-04:00

I assume it is acceptable unless the decal is so out there that its more than merely "offensive".

I know my old neighbors at Ft. Bliss had a Jeep with a sticker on it that read "Road H _ _ _ in progress", and the wife (yep) drove it on main post, and to pickup/drop off her kids at the off-post elementary school. Insofar as I know, no one ever said they couldn't. Sure, it screams their lack of class, but that's not illegal or apparently against installation policy.

Experiences may vary though.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2019 3:39 PM

2019-07-19T15:39:42-04:00

I once had a buddy with the marine scout sniper logo on the gas tank of his motorcycle. It was for a fallen friend. For those that dont know, the marine scout sniper logo incorporates S's that look like the German SS symbol, but they are seperated by the rest of the logo. Someone saw the logo and made a huge fuss and he was told cover the bike in the back of a truck or strip the logo. Long story short, if anyone is offended by your stupid ass bumper sticker, the commander has the legal authority to tell you to take it off. Especially if it falls in the realm of SHARP or EO. While the Supreme Court can call it a right, when you signed the dotted line you gave up some of yours, stupid bumper stickers.

Response by TSgt David Holman made Jul 19 at 2019 3:57 PM

2019-07-19T15:57:07-04:00

Your comment about your first amendment rights not evaporating when you drive on base are actually false. You took an oath to obey the orders of the officers appointed over you, and if that officer tells you to remove a decal from your vehicle, and you don't, you have violated the UCMJ. Plain and simple.
Honestly, I don't know why people want to put things that would be offensive on their vehicle...

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 19 at 2019 4:06 PM

2019-07-19T16:06:12-04:00

Look 1. POV's are private and personal property- you can't enforce anything with them if the meet the state laws. 2. What are you going to do if it is a civilian visitor? 3. Are going to set up a PC Gestapo to enforce this? 4. Or will you a safe space with crayons for those offended by others property?

Response by PO1 Robert Wikert made Jul 19 at 2019 4:41 PM

2019-07-19T16:41:29-04:00

Regardless of regulations, I would think this comes under the heading of "common sense". If you wouldn't say it, or stick it on your mother's car then, you probably don't need to be driving it on and off of base.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Jul 19 at 2019 4:48 PM

2019-07-19T16:48:57-04:00

I think that my wife would argue with this "I love sushi" being bad....she is from Korea...and a seafood vacuum. I understand MILF hunter...but never heard Sushi chefs products being not allowed on a bumper sticker.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jul 19 at 2019 4:49 PM

2019-07-19T16:49:55-04:00

Are they allowed on installations? Yes. Are they allowed on the vehicle of a servicemember? That is up to the Commander.

Once upon a time I had to duct tape over my bumper sticker that said "Honk if you haven't slept with Clinton." It was determined to be derogatory to the President (rightly so) and thus a violation ofUCMJ. I was allowed to keep my "I'm not wearing underwear" bumper sticker, despite it's poor taste, because it didn't technically violate any rules (other than the rules of decorum). These days I wouldn't have either, but back then I was a young, dumb Private.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 19 at 2019 10:56 PM

2019-07-19T22:56:59-04:00

I’m just confused...if you know already it’s offensive, why would you put it on the vehicle? Unless you’re seeking attention despite if it’s negative, it just doesn’t seem like a wise choice for someone who has standards...I would hope you would choose to do the right thing and respect others since it’s already known it’s offensive.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2019 3:40 AM

2019-07-20T03:40:42-04:00

Yes, a commander may take action if discrimination, sexual harassment, or other activities interfere with the good order and discipline of the unit, or being discredit to the military.
Distribution of literature is protected under the 1st Amendment (1A), but it is limited once you enter the gate. So, while your 1st Amendment rights don't evaporate, it doesn't mean they are as broad as if you were a civilian off post.
AR 600-20 provides commanders the authority to address the question you raised.
See AR 600-20, Ch 2, Ch 3-8. e., Ch. 4., Ch 4-12 c.-d., 6-2. c., B-2. h.
With specific to a bumper stickers. See B-2. h. Display a political sticker on the Soldier’s private vehicle.
Aince the Army considered, and made a determination about (political) bumper stickers, it is reasonable to believe command authority could be exercised to find a bumper sticker in violation of a anything covered in any of the chapters in AR 600-20, and take correction or other action to correct any violation.
If the bumper stickers or material on the POV are considered discriminatory, supporting extremist or discriminatory views, is discriminatory, or interferes with the good order and discipline of the unit, then it would fall under a commander's authority to take action to correct the violation/cause.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 20 at 2019 7:54 AM

2019-07-20T07:54:31-04:00

Thank you all for al the helpful replies!

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jul 20 at 2019 12:05 PM

2019-07-20T12:05:09-04:00

Yes, you can be made to remove it and no no US case on it matters at all. Why? Because although in the civilian world you have every single right to put pretty much any bumper sticker, slogan, etc., on your personal vehicle and drive it around, NOW you are in the military and subject to military & DoD regulations as well as UCMJ.

You are now governed by perception, moral, conduct and if an NCO, Officer, etc., feels and can articulate that something is offensive you can be ordered to remove it. That is a direct, lawful order and failure to obey such carries its own consequences.

You have the same rights as a civilian but your rights now have different stipulations attached to them and and are in some cases diminished while in the military. While you are a citizen, you are not a civilian.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jul 20 at 2019 4:47 PM

2019-07-20T16:47:58-04:00

Anything that goes against good order and discipline can be effected by command policy. Thank you for your service.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Monk made Jul 20 at 2019 6:58 PM

2019-07-20T18:58:38-04:00

Sounds like that would be up to a Base Commander. As for your rights, actually once you swear in many of your rights are put on hold till you get out. Freedom of speech is one of them.

Response by SSG Jack Jurgensen made Jul 20 at 2019 10:21 PM

2019-07-20T22:21:47-04:00

That's unbecoming of a service member and offensive in nature, so NO.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Jul 21 at 2019 2:54 PM

2019-07-21T14:54:08-04:00

1. Did a superior tell you take it off?
2. Did you comply?
3. Are you pending Article 15 or other UCMJ actions?
This is kind of in the same line as the SPC that wore the
"Fuck all Pu--ies" T-Shirt to the unit welcome home party.