Are organizations such as the American Legion and VFW serving or alienating current Veterans?

SN Alan West — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 12:38:17 -0400

Earlier this week there was an article in the Washington Times, http://bit.ly/1rqsg9c, about younger Veterans bypassing the American Legion and VFW for more modern organizations like Wounded Warrior Project, Team Rubicon, Got Your 6 and Team RWB. Kate Hoit was the service member profiled who stated "she will never join the VFW or the American Legion." She also said those "organizations are unwelcoming and out of touch with the needs of post-Sept. 11 veterans who served in Afghanistan and Iraq." There have been several responses to the Washington Times article including a post on the American Legion's blog site, http://bit.ly/1wtIYe9, calling out Ms. Hoit as not being an uninterested bystander and perhaps being a straw man for the old versus new Veteran Service Organizations.

My question is are the older more established organizations working to get younger veterans into their ranks and leadership or are older vets dominating these organizations and not wanting to allow younger vets to enjoy the cameraderie that was denied them outside of these organizations.

FULL DISCLAIMER: I am a member of BOTH the American Legion and VFW, I am a member of Post 5 of the American Legion in Nashville, Tennessee and a Member at Large of the VFW. I also participate in events put on by the Wounded Warrior Project, such as the recent 8K Race in Franklin, Tennessee.

Younger veterans bypass VFW, American Legion for service, fitness groups

Kate Hoit served eight years in the Army Reserves, including a tour in Iraq, but when she tried to join her local Veterans of Foreign Wars chapter, someone asked whether she needed an application for military spouses instead.

Response by PO3 Shaun Taylor made Oct 22 at 2014 12:43 PM

PO3 Shaun Taylor — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 12:43:07 -0400

I don't think the American Legion or the VFW do enough to get younger veterans into their ranks. My first experience with the VFW wasn't a pleasant one.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Oct 22 at 2014 1:03 PM

MSG Wade Huffman — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:03:21 -0400

There are plenty of similar discussions on here already, so I'll keep my comments (relatively) short.
Bottom line is that these organizations (VFW, American Legion, AMVETS, DAV, MOPH, TREA, etc.) do a tremendous amount of work for ALL Veterans and Service Members at the National level.
Granted, (too) many local posts are not adapting well to meet the needs and desires of today's veterans, you'll get no argument from me there, but there are many that ARE as well.
I would encourage my fellow veterans (and service members) to join one (or more) of these organizations, if nothing else, as at 'at large' member to support their programs.
Without the membership, the political clout of these organizations will continue to diminish, and so will their programs and our benefits will be at even greater risk than they currently are.
Just my two cents.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 1:42 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 13:42:35 -0400

They are both far to political IMO, I want nothing to do with either the American Legion or the VFW.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 22 at 2014 2:25 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 14:25:12 -0400

They are still important because they represent a lobby supporting the military...and the military, for the most part, is a group that cannot lobby effectively on its own behalf due to regulations on political speech for serving members.

Response by 1LT William Cozzolino made Oct 29 at 2014 1:55 PM

1LT William Cozzolino — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:55:31 -0400

Both these organizations are in need of the younger generation, they both need new membership and leadership.

In the Vietnam era each organization alienated many young vets through a membership base that was reluctant to view a Vietnam vet's service as equal to their own during WWII or Korea. That isn't the case any longer, the Vietnam and Desert Storm vets who largely comprise our current leadership structure embrace all those who served, and we're actively looking to pass on the reins to this younger generation.

As a person who has reached out to IAVA repeatedly, and not received a response, and who has offered use of our post facility to Sub Vets, Marines, and other veterans groups (with positive response) I fail to understand why the younger generation doesn't see the value in joining these organizations.

Some have cited that neither do the community outreach or veterans service missions that they feel is important. In both cases that impression is far from the actual fact. In other cases it's because the younger vets state that they don't want to sit around, drink beer, smoke and watch war movies all day. I've yet to see that as the standard model for any post I've visited.

I suspect it's because there is a common misconception that has a hold on the younger vets' general understanding of these organizations. In fact I'd urge them to take two hours from one of their days in the month and check out a local post. Most of the posts I've been to are laid back, some have bars, some don't; some have Legion Riders, or Rolling Thunder, some have other groups. Some are involved in kids baseball and scouting. All support general principals of Americanism, and respect for those who have and who do serve.

Finally, I'd appeal to the very practical reality that these organizations are wealthy in terms of political clout and money. Many of the younger vets I've met are passionate about specific veteran service projects. Many are trying to create organizations around these specific projects. What I'm not sure is fully appreciated is the ability for these vets to become officers in their local Legion and / or VFW posts and join those projects to the overall organization's service infrastructure and to leverage the increased lobbying power and considerable resources that the Legion and VFW have to help advance their service programs that much quicker.

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Oct 29 at 2014 2:00 PM

SGT Jim Z. — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 14:00:00 -0400

Both organizations do a lot for eligible veterans and although some posts are receptive to the new generation some are not. For example my American Legion Post, Post 116 in Fuquay-Varina just held a three day event to assist all veterans with issues they were experiencing with the VA. When I said all veterans that is exactly showed up young old, VFW, American Legion, non-members. I also know that my post encourages the newer generation because current rank and file is not getting younger and without new members these great organizations will begin to falter. Therefore, I am sorry she had a bad experience but to swear off these organizations is part of the problem and like my old NCOs used to say do not come to me to complain come to me with solutions.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 29 at 2014 4:43 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 29 Oct 2014 16:43:28 -0400

I didn't read the article but I did go join my local VFW and attended two meetings.

All I found were a bunch of old men drunk who started drinking at lunch on Thursday.

I have a job, a wife and two little kids. I have very little in common with these functioning alcoholics.

The local chapter had nothing that interested me. If the local chapters go away I wouldn't miss them. I may try again when I get out and settle down somewhere.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Oct 30 at 2014 1:10 PM

CW5 Sam R. Baker — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 13:10:38 -0400

Having read the article, I understand the frustration Mrs. Hoit feels, but she needs to understand this quote by CPT Rolf:

"Lynn Rolf, a former Army captain who served in Iraq, couldn’t wait to join the VFW, saying it was an honor to become a member of the same organization as his father and grandfather. Once at the post at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, however, he started to see some behavior he didn’t like.

“They didn’t like the young guys, they didn’t think we knew what we were talking about. It wasn’t very family-friendly,” Mr. Rolf said. “But now it is.”

Rather than drop out, Mr. Rolf recruited his friends to join, took on leadership roles and changed the organization into something that fits his needs. When he hears the common complaints from Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, the VFW Western Conference vice chairman tells them to do the same thing and “force change.”"

I as a private used to go to the VFW religiously when I was a young Soldier overseas and couldn't wait to qualify. I enjoyed and met many many friends and acquaintances. I learned a lot from the old timers and thy respected and loved us the same. Here at Fort Campbell and Fort Hood the locals supported the units with functions and BBQs.

I am a life member of VFW and have not joined but participated in many American Legion efforts. What I do know is that Mrs. Hoit doesn't fit the typical thought process physically outward that many veterans of years past take into account. Someone has to say it and yes it is ignorance and prejudice to not think she is a veteran. Why should she have to prove service just because she is a woman. Much like the USO, whom I volunteer for, overseas it is very much a different support element. Younger and more in touch. Seems stateside functions of ALL these prior 911 organizations is OLDER. I am older, but younger folks have a different idea of what they are supposed to be, so I challenge them to join and work for change.

Much like many other organizations, AUSA, MOAA, AAAA, CHPA, and a gazillion more, membership affects political pull in the beltway. You choose how much of an active member you wish to be. I guess the same can be said of RP.

Community involvement and government interaction with regard to policy and rights for veterans is what is important. If you want more support, you can try to get it yourself, but as a voice of more than 1 million, your voice is a lot louder! Just saying, make change.

Response by SSG Tim Everett made Oct 30 at 2014 3:22 PM

SSG Tim Everett — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 15:22:48 -0400

I used to have membership in both organisations -- I've stopped going to any posts and I've stopped identifying as a member. The article that you linked, I feel, is spot on and my experiences tend to mirror those described by the author. I'd rather be part of the IAVA instead, and participate in organisations that look after my generation. That don't involve older generations getting drunk at 10am.

As for the notion that I should get involved in leadership of those organisations, to that I say no thanks. I'm not interested in fighting some political battle just to get a top-dawg spot to help change. Maybe that makes me a bad person, but I honestly don't give two squirts about politics. These guys don't represent me and they don't speak for me.

Response by TSgt Mark Vaughn made Oct 30 at 2014 3:38 PM

TSgt Mark Vaughn — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 15:38:28 -0400

Here is my take on the whole story and be warned that this is only my opinion and not the opinion of anyone else, at least not to my knowledge. During my enlistment and subsequent career my father was very active in the American Legion, I on many occasions helped him during legion functions and also attended many recruiting events with him. Though I have not joined either one of these organizations since retiring I think the problem lies not as much with the organizations but more in the eyes and mind set of the younger veterans and here is why I think that:

1. Many of the young veterans are very much into "Today's electronic society" The online presence of some of these newer organizations have a strong online presence and fit into the lifestyle of these young vets.

2. Many of the young veterans that i have spoken too feel that the VFW and the American Legion are "Their daddy's organizations" saying that they feel like it's a thing of the past and my own take on the situation is that to an extent I see where they are coming from, most of the member base are older WWII, Korea and Viet Nam veterans who are most active in the roles of both organizations. They believe in Military Tradition which is something our young troops are sorely lacking in. Due to the fact that the military has become more of a Corporation than a stand alone society as it once was. Young troops from all branches don't understand the importance of Officer Clubs, Enlisted Clubs, the BX, PX, NEX or the Commissary and all of these things are disappearing on bases and posts all over the military. They just have no clue how important to the military way of life these things were, or more pertinent to the conversation how "We have each others backs" used to come into play in the military. Today it is more Political Correctness as opposed to Camaraderie, it's more of What Can I get out of the military than What can I do for the military.

The military used to be a way of life, now it is a job just like any other civilian job except that you have to wear a uniform. That is one of the big reasons why I retired when I did with 3 years left on my enlistment. It's a travesty that these organizations are taking a hit because our military leadership have sold out to the corporate way of life and have allowed society and the leadership in Washington who more that 90% have no military experience dictate how the military should be run.

Just my 2 cents....

Response by LTC Derek Gaudlitz made Oct 30 at 2014 5:14 PM

LTC Derek Gaudlitz — Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:14:17 -0400

Having just retired this past month in the San Antonio area, I still clearly remember my original perspective of the VFW & AL just a couple years ago. Almost all the vets I interacted with from those organizations at local Memorial Day/Veteran's Day events all seemed to be well past retirement age and I really didn't feel any connection or desire to join either one.

Fortunately, one of the AL Post 38 members attended my church & invited me to attend many times over several years. After my last deployment in 2012, I made the decision to retire and decided to find out what they had to offer.

Our post is much like the one you described, Alan. They are focused on serving the community and welcomed with open arms the younger vets into their fold and they are more than willing to allow these vets to serve in leadership positions.

What I've noticed with the generation of OIF/OEF vets is that the majority of them are so busy trying to make ends meet, establish new careers, juggle the endless requirements of children's schedules, and never ending to-do lists that they don't feel like they have time to commit to another organization.

It's sad to hear that there are VFWs/ALs that don't respect or want the younger crowd. Eventually they will learn the error of their ways when there is no one left to keep their posts open.

I encourage all vets to join these organizations.

Response by SPC Travis Grizzard made Oct 31 at 2014 1:51 AM

SPC Travis Grizzard — Fri, 31 Oct 2014 01:51:51 -0400

You actually have two issues there. One is the issue of younger Vets and the other is the issue of female Vets joining the VFW. My wife was a WAC when she first enlisted, she was 57 when she was called up to go to Iraq. Connie was already a member of the American Legion, but she was given directions to the VFW Auxiliary meeting, (they met in different rooms on the same night) when she showed up for a meeting.

I'm American Legion, and a member of the American Legion Riders, Post #15. We have activities which invlove riding motorcycles, from overnight rides to safety classes, etc, and have recruited younger members to the Legion. ALR is a good recruiting tool for younger members.

Response by Maj Kim Patterson made Nov 1 at 2014 12:03 AM

Maj Kim Patterson — Sat, 01 Nov 2014 00:03:42 -0400

When I walked into the combined AL/VFW, first thing I was asked was by the manager if I was there to apply for the waitress position. Also offered the option of joining the wife group. I gave it a year, attempted to start conversations and attend events. No need to go back. I was either ignored or hit on. And as an aside, I have gone to a few Veteran's Day meals with male non-veterans. They are thanked for their service and given the vet menu. I do speak up and express my appreciation for the restaurants participating in this yearly show of support.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2014 5:54 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Nov 2014 05:54:41 -0500

My favorite solution was the approach that Lynn Rolf took, by having his friends join up and taking a position of leadership to reform it into something he wanted to remain a part of. I'll definitely take this into practice when I settle in one place.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Dec 16 at 2014 10:10 PM

SGT Mark Sullivan — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 22:10:26 -0500

American Legion and VFW have a stigma they need to overcome. That stigma being it's for Old Codgers, some VFW Chapters are rising to that challenge, and actively trying to draw younger Vets to them, by making membership more appealing. All of them should follow suite and do things that would appeal to younger Vets. American Legion has also gone to Veteran Hiring events and job fairs to get their message out to Vets.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 17 at 2014 12:32 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 12:32:06 -0500

I will be honest with this. I have been in the Army for 13 years (since 18) and I have never considered looking at the American Legion or VFW. The main reason is that it never appealed to (and I know they serve a greater purpose). I know that the organizations is great, but it feels dated to me (and that's just my observations being young). For example, I get letters from them about some free item and a veteran certificate... but I just never see them truly advertise as these new organizations do. I usually pass an American Legion when driving around the states and the outposts look really small. Basically, what I'm getting at is they have to advertise and reach to the younger generations. I know in hindsight that advertising DOES NOT mean an organization is great; it just affects the initial projection of the organization. I am just saying this because I think it is important that they continue to reach out by providing my honest observations.

TSgt Mark Vaughn nailed it. I am a very electronic and digital type of person. I dislike physical mail and having people call me (sad, but it's how most people are these days). The newer organizations have a very strong online presence. I believe the IAVA did multiple commercials on TV on how VETS may feel coming back from a deployment. Stuff like this I believe is what makes the newer organizations more appealing.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Dec 17 at 2014 12:34 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 17 Dec 2014 12:34:09 -0500

Based on what I have observed... VFWs hold no attraction to me.
Smoke filled, cheap beer gatherings of folks that have no life other then that past.

That is harsh, and likely not the majority of VFWs and there members.. but it is the perception I have based on the few I have been into.. To include one here in Texas where I teach an MSF class at in a side room.

I am a life time member of the VFW, only because a relative is a ..well I cont remember, some VFW officer or another and he signed me and my wife up.

Response by 1LT William Cozzolino made Dec 18 at 2014 4:32 PM

1LT William Cozzolino — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 16:32:08 -0500

American Legion, VFW, MOAA, IAVA, SVA, and the many other organizations all share one large footprint, servicemen and women past and present. We also all share the cause of building an effective service organization that helps our local community to be veteran focused and friendly.

It seems universal that younger vets are aligning themselves with organizations they create. They see a synergy since the organizations founded by their peers, and are focused on what they view are their needs for their stage in life.

However, is that really so different from what today's older vets looked for when they were younger?

We all want to have a place where we can go individually or with family to spend some of the precious little time that isn't consumed by working, keeping up the house and yard, or taking care of life's issues. We'd like a place that offers activities, such as playing sports, watching sports, club activities, or family events such as BBQs with kid friendly activities on national holidays. We'd also like to know that our dues and elected post officials are using our resources to help vets in need.

The AL, VFW, MOAA, Subvets, Marine Corps League, etc are already doing a lot if not all of that. If one post isn't doing it, likely another 30 minutes or less down the road is.

I can understand why someone doesn't feel like he or she alone wants to take on the role of change agent at the local post which seems so disconnected from what they seek in a club, but will they find it in another place, and are there really other dedicated venues that rival these established posts in terms of being veteran focused?

As commander of our local AL post I called IAVA six times over three years and offered they could meet at a separate time from the Legion meeting, with no pressure to join, they never even called back. The sub-vets took me up on the offer, as did the Marine Corps League. I was baffled, but suppose that the local chapter isn't well enough organized or is wary of a hidden agenda. Don't be wary, seek partnerships; many times local AL or VFW posts are just looking to coalesce veterans even it they don't swell their own ranks, it's all part of service to the community.

Finally, the reality is that each AL, VFW or other organization at a post level hosts an election once a year to fill positions on an executive committee consisting of less than a dozen people; change is as easy as showing up with a handful of like minded men and women, nominate yourselves for several roles and create a voting block. Don't like smoking, want a specific veteran service focus, want to see more family oriented events? Make a motion, hold a vote, build the future.

It's members who define who we are at a post (community) level. It's almost ironic in a way, we're all vets, we all lived the mindset that we don't wait for change, we take the lead and make change. So why look at these organizations and feel disenfranchised?

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Jan 11 at 2015 2:36 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Sun, 11 Jan 2015 14:36:06 -0500

I'd say they're falling behind by outdated industry practices. I'd say that RallyPoint is the digital version.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 1:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Feb 2015 13:29:54 -0500

In my opinion it all depends on the chapter you go to that decides what you get out of it. I know that the VFW Chapter I joined is mainly Vietnam era Soldiers, but we still go into the community and volunteer and I have benefited from the assistance the VFW provides to Veterans.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2015 2:17 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Feb 2015 14:17:35 -0500

I walked into my local VFW and there was nothing that appealed to me. They have no wifi, computers, or video games.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2015 6:09 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Feb 2015 18:09:47 -0500

I have been a member of several American Legion posts for over 30 yrs. due to the course of different military re-locations. I was active in some and just paid dues to remain a member in others due to a feeling of maybe I don't belong. I joined way back when Vietnam vets were treated somewhat less welcomed.

I have written letters to both local and national levels of the AL, and dropped off letters to local posts during my retirement travels, requesting them to petition the Al to amend the preamble to include all veterans by including the following.

Part of the preamble includes the words " great wars". With all do respect to those who fought so gallantly in WWII, there hasn't been a " Congressionally" declared war since WWII.

I have requested that the words "and conflicts" be added to the preamble after " great wars" so as to include combat actions in Korea, Vietnam, Panama, Somalia, Desert Storm, Iraqi Freedom, War on Terror (non-declared officially) etc., and all those other operations not declared as wars by Congress, although American blood has been spilled in all those places.

All Honorably discharged vets are eligible to join the Legion, and I feel this action would close an invisible hole in the generation gap, which would make more of the younger service members feel more of a part of an organization that is made up of all "brothers in arms", young and old.

I have written a letters to the editor of American Legion Magazine (who did not print it) in the letters to the editor section of the magazine. I did however, receive a letter from National Headquarters stating that a petition would be required to accomplish this.

If you agree, have your post submit a petition to your state headquarters, who hopefully will forward it to National and make the change possible. If this is done by ALL Posts through out the nation, maybe change will take place and membership would rise..

Response by Sgt Brian Motz made Feb 25 at 2015 1:41 PM

Sgt Brian Motz — Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:41:34 -0500

Never been to one

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made Mar 4 at 2015 11:17 AM

SFC Walt Littleton — Wed, 04 Mar 2015 11:17:23 -0500

I have been a member for many years of both. Wherever I move I always joined the local posts.

2 years ago I let my membership lapse and probably never join again. Why, because they are out of touch, lost their way and have no motivation to pull together and support the Veterans.

I can remember years back when these organizations spoke politicians listened intently. Now they are not even recognized in Washington, DC.

Sad truth is most Posts have become a place where a Vet can get a cheap drink and maybe a couple of War Stories.

I spent a couple years on the Wxecutive Commitee of an American Legion and for entire year we spent the our time arguing over how we wanted the new bar built and of course everyone had their own opinion.

If these organizations would work together, bring in younger veterans and allow them to transform these old bars IMAGINE THE POLITICAL CLOUT WE VETERANS COULD BRING TO DC????

These organizations are going to be a lost memory if they don't reorganize and get back on track. It's sad really bc there are anough of us to scare the hell out of DC.

For those who read this I know what you are thinking, why don't you join and change it. I have and they were happy with there little bar and that is that. Hopefully they will change and I will again join and do my part. We are all getting older and there won't be anyone left to keep it going. SAD BUT TRUE.

Response by PO2 Todd Voge made Apr 1 at 2015 9:54 PM

PO2 Todd Voge — Wed, 01 Apr 2015 21:54:47 -0400

I've been a member of the American Legion for 23 years (since I got out of the Navy). Because I never served overseas, I am not eligible for VFW. I am also a life member of AMVETS.

Both of our posts (AL and AMVETS) are working hard to be inclusive. Our Commanders have been "younger" (under 60) for most of the past few years with a few in their 40's (like me). Because of my job, I'm unable to do a lot for the AL, but I do maintain the AMVETS website for the Department of Minnesota (http://www.mn-amvets.org). I am pleased that our local chapters are working on including the younger members.

Our VFW post shut down due to low membership.

As others have stated, it would be nice to have all local chapters embrace change and bring new people in. It's too bad they don't.

Response by CPT Bruce Rodgers made Apr 1 at 2015 10:02 PM

CPT Bruce Rodgers — Wed, 01 Apr 2015 22:02:40 -0400

I am a member of the VFW, but the most I get out of it is a magizine and they do lobby for veterans in Washington. I also belong to DAV and PVA both of these organizations helped me tremendously with VA representation and getting my home wheelchair accessible. I can't Thank them enough for helping my transition and helping me through a long and difficult recovery and road to mobility.

Response by TSgt Christopher D. made May 4 at 2015 10:06 AM

TSgt Christopher D. — Mon, 04 May 2015 10:06:28 -0400

The American Legion in SW Houston is slow. I've been a member since October last year and have not been advised of even one meeting. Anytime I call, I get no answer.

The VFW just 12 miles to the west of me is active, but it seems their efforts focus on charities that are not directly involved with Vets.

Response by SFC Randall Beat made Jun 25 at 2015 1:52 PM

SFC Randall Beat — Thu, 25 Jun 2015 13:52:35 -0400

Hello "Brothers and Sisters in Arms",

I apologize now this will likely be a long post.

VSOs in general have a uphill battle against the current culture of our nation. VSOs were largely founded on an all but gone community culture that many veterans of previous conflict/wars shared. This is the reason most VSOs need to make changes to accommodate younger veterans, the old ways need to change with the culture.

Before I joined my local VFW almost 2 years ago, I did some research on the current status of VSOs and how they were fairing in the current national culture. What I found very quickly is that most if not all VSOs were shrinking in overall membership and many post were closing due to low membership and low activity.

I’ll give you a brief background about me to show you my prospective. I served 18 years US Army – Medical Discharged for lower back injury in the line of duty, 30% disability rating from VA, BA in Business Admin. – Marketing, MA in Business and Organizational Security Management.
I moved from Southern California to North Idaho in April of 2013. During that long drive I made a decision to be part of the community I live in rather than just live in the community. I decided months later to join the VFW in my community. So I looked up the nearest post and found via the website when there post meeting were. So I show up and as soon as I walk in the door, everyone in the room turns and looks at me. One of the members asked “Are you a member?” I replied “not yet”. I quickly got a reply “you cannot come in; this is a members only meeting”. I turned and left the room, a membered followed me out and gave me quick explanation why I was not allowed to attend and that he did not have time to see to making me a member right now. There were only about 10 members in the room and only one of them was below the age of 50. I came back on another day and paid my dues and became a “card carrying member”. From there I attend most of the VFW functions and quickly became a “pain in the arse” to many of the older members, with my new ideas and spitfire attitude.
Looking back I understand that many posts will come off with the good ol’ boy attitude, but sticking with it will often times overcome that built in culture. I also found that when I gave an idea that I needed to back it up with action and reap the respect from its success. Over the last 19 months, I have been given enough rope to hang myself and instead used that rope to make a bridge between the post and our community. Here are some of the new things our post has done in the last 18 months and the out comes from those events:
Hosted a Game convention in alliance with our local Game store
60 people attended and the event made the front page of the paper.

The post made over $18,000 dollars in donations and donated over $18,000 to veterans in our community. There were no 30% costs or administration fees put on this money. Every dime we were donated went back to the veterans in our community.
We supported Women Warrior Retreat and recruited several female veterans.
We planned and will hold our first Veteran Family Retreat this weekend, in hopes of making it an annual event.
From these events and activities I have learned that activity breeds activity. The older the average age of a post is the more difficult it will be to stay activity in the community. So recruiting members is and will always be the life blood of VSOs. If you are not getting new “younger” members, your post is effectively dying a slow death. As you all know many posts have a bar that at one point in time with the “best watering hole in town”. That watering hole is now all dried up! The younger veterans that would be considered the market for VSOs are in the stage of their life that they have kids and jobs, alcohol though legal is not the preferred method of building loyalty with a veteran family. In my opinion the posts that perpetuation the stereo typical of veterans wasting their days away drinking and smoking at the “Watering hole” is doing more damage to VSOs than anything else. VSOs must be active in their community or they will waste away.
Some of the ways a post can be active in its community are: providing a Veteran Family Retreat, putting on a month Family movie night, have a weekly coffee and donut (free) where all veterans are welcome. This is just a few ways to move in the right direction, I’m sure there are many more. I would enjoy hearing about them.
Since joining the VFW, I have been placed/voted into several positions: Post Jr Vice, Post Sr Vice, District QM and District Chief Recruiter, I also attended the state conventions, I decided to focus on my community rather than focus on trying to move up the chairs in district. As many of you know VSOs are a bureaucracy and that means “Red Tape” and paper work. After holding the positions, I understand the need for the paper work. My goal is to change my community’s view of the VFW and provide for the veterans in my community. VSOs are a community based organization and that being said they add value to their community or they will go away.

Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy post and if you are in need of direction when it comes to a VSO please feel free to contact me.

Response by SPC George Grimm made Jul 14 at 2015 1:54 AM

SPC George Grimm — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 01:54:31 -0400

Well I have joined the VFW and haven't been very involved! I joined because it is a family tradition! I am the 4th generation that has joined as far as I know! I'm sceptical about involvement , because it doesn't seem to really fit what appeals to how I feel it would help the veterans of my era!

Response by PO3 Jeff Hawkins made Jul 14 at 2015 1:57 AM

PO3 Jeff Hawkins — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 01:57:48 -0400

I have not joined, but have become involved in a Veterans' Memorial Museum that is active in community events, parades etc. as well as a daily place where vets come to hang out for coffee, conversation, etc. at 42, I am one of a handful that are by far the youngest ones there.

Response by CPT Bruce Rodgers made Jul 14 at 2015 3:23 AM

CPT Bruce Rodgers — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 03:23:12 -0400

I'm a member of the VFW, but am most active with DAV and PVA due to the direct outreach

Response by Sgt Matt Koeneman made Jul 14 at 2015 4:53 AM

Sgt Matt Koeneman — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 04:53:57 -0400

I'm not, the only organization i belong to these days for fun is my local lodge. American legion and VFW seem to be way to politicized for my liking.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 14 at 2015 8:21 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:21:00 -0400

The biggest issue that the older organizations have is their ability to connect with younger Veterans. Normally, most VFWs and Legions stay to themselves, sitting in a bar and smoking. While there is nothing wrong with that, it is my personal feelings that younger Veterans want more than that. We want to get out and do things, experience life, enjoy time with those around us out side of some dark smoke filled room. From my experiences, the majority of these organizations are just happy sitting on a stool and trading war stories and only interact with thee public on Memorial Day and Veterans Day. Of course there are some great posts that are highly active in their community doing great things, yet it is the others that put a bad taste in the mouth of younger Veterans.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Jul 14 at 2015 8:53 AM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 08:53:10 -0400

In my case I do belong to the American Legion and to the paid for life program however I haven't officially requested to be part of my local post because I heard that smoking is permitted inside the building and I'm a anti-smoke person. I heard it is the same case in all of the other Legion posts.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Jul 14 at 2015 3:58 PM

LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 15:58:48 -0400

I worked for four years at the local DAV Chapter Service office in Olympia WA, until my headaches got too severe to work. Most of our Chapter are Vietnam or older vets. We have a very small number of post 9/11 vets in our chapter.

I think this is perhaps a symptom of the Ethos of the younger generations. I think it's incumbent on the leadership of the VSOs to do outreach to younger vets and lobby them to get involved... We certainly know who they are - we file disability claims for many of them every day.

Another reason the younger folks aren't getting exposed to the VSOs is the Warrior Battalion and the way disability claims are handled right now. Most troops at EOS/Retirement/ETS are processed on base/post, so they never learn about the offsite VSO locations, unless their claims fall apart...

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Jul 14 at 2015 4:52 PM

SFC Dennis Yancy — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 16:52:28 -0400

Most are not as no one knows much about VFW, legion, and others are just places to get beer cheap.
I moved to Alpine, Texas and discovered the Legion is very involved in local town. Makes it a busy and vital post. Makes it worth my time.

Response by SPC Jeffrey Bly made Jul 14 at 2015 6:22 PM

SPC Jeffrey Bly — Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:22:14 -0400

I supposedly do not qualify for either. I served during the only Peace Time in our recent (1985-1988) history and not long enough in the Guard during 9/11.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 15 at 2015 9:59 AM

PO1 John Miller — Wed, 15 Jul 2015 09:59:29 -0400

I'm a member of the VFW, American Legion, FRA, and DAV but I'm not active in any of them. What I am active in though in a Motorcycle Association I just joined, the CVMA, or Combat Vets Motorcycle Association. Our motto is "Veterans Helping Veterans."

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 27 at 2015 8:51 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Jul 2015 20:51:41 -0400

My post is mostly Vietnam generation, but we have WWII, Korea, Desert Storm/Shield and some GWOT. It's so important to do outreach in the community so people know who you are. My Post Commander is amazing about outreach and making others feel welcome, which is essential if you want them to join.

If you don't click with the people, try another Post. When you find a good one (like mine), the camaraderie is outstanding.

Response by SN Alan West made Aug 7 at 2015 10:29 AM

SN Alan West — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 10:29:24 -0400

I wanted to update this discussion with an article from the Military Times about VFW Post #1 and its vision to be relevant to the next generation of veterans.

http://bit.ly/1gPuEsV

Vision for a new VFW: The story of Denver's Post 1

Lightning arcs across in the sky in rapid-fire bursts of light and thunder. The first fat drops of rain are pounding down as dozens of combat veterans file into a rough-around-the-edges, turn-of-the-century warehouse building.

Response by SGM Matthew West made Mar 10 at 2016 12:25 PM

SGM Matthew West — Thu, 10 Mar 2016 12:25:42 -0500

Wow, I keep hearing all of the "The VFW is too political", and I am confused on what they mean. Maybe, here in Louisiana we are just not seeing it? I just don't understand what everyone is talking about. Last week the National Commander in Chief of the VFW, sat in front of Congress and worked on Veterans issues. When he/she does that, they are working for all VETERANS, not just members of the VFW. Same with the national commander of the American Legion. These young organizations popping up are great for local fun and gatherings, but they don't have that same voice in front of Congress that gets stuff fixed for VETERANS. I have yet to see in my 13 years of membership in the VFW, any Post, District, State or National officer ever nominate, stand behind or politic for any candidate. Just don't get it.

Response by A1C Cindy Cranston made Jan 3 at 2018 11:12 AM

A1C Cindy Cranston — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 11:12:49 -0500

The local VFW and American Legion in my area are very unwelcoming to women who have served. The average age of members seems to be over 65 and the current leadership doesn’t seem to care about reaching out to younger veterans. I live within 30 minutes of Military city USA (San Antonio, TX) so this is a shame.

Response by COL John McClellan made Jan 3 at 2018 11:28 AM

COL John McClellan — Wed, 03 Jan 2018 11:28:16 -0500

Working to... in a word - no. Not hard enough. Sadly, the VFW National, State and District leadership focus is on "100%" membership - meaning, attain the same total headcount as the year before. It is NOT focused on any specific goal for young members. My Post is in FL, which is a retirement state mind you, but just to give you and idea: out of 1,000+ members, we have 47% that are 75 years old or older. We have almost 20% who are listed as 90 years old or older!! We have only 25 members who are under 35, and 112 total who are under 55. So - as a "young" member (53) and Post officer - I'm making this my focus now. I have re-started a Post FB page, trying to program some new activities here for Post-911, and reaching out to our existing young members to try to find out what they need/want to see us doing! Team RWB is great (I am a member) but their focus is almost 100% on physical fitness. They are very active here, and a good group - but they aren't positioned to interface with the VA (with a trained Service Officer) like we are, or to organize resources to support local Veterans in need - like we are. Yes... there is a lot to be done to modernize these aging VSOs, and we really need the DS/DS generation to step up!!

Response by CPL Linda B. made Aug 17 at 2022 11:56 PM

CPL Linda B. — Wed, 17 Aug 2022 23:56:21 -0400

I agree it is a difficult place to go.. You're having a hard day you shouldn't go there because no one will care.
Asking for help for anything is like talking to a brick wall. You're better off just talking to a brick wall at least you know you're not getting anything because you are
Talking to a Brick wall Unfortunately they're not all the same some regions are better than others.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2023 1:22 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Feb 2023 13:22:33 -0500

I'm a member of both the VFW and Legion, in fact I'm The Commander of the Legion and am friends with the Commander of the V. We both have been fighting successfully to turn both local organizations from inward to outwards, we do for veterans but we are also making our community a priority. It thiers a Town event we are there to support it. It took time to change , many thought we would kill the places but the opposite is happening. We are growing. We are not a bar to hang out in all day, yes we still have a canteen and our bartenders are all trained locally on how to serve or not serve our customers. After all it protects the post. I would love to have the younger vets in leadership positions but I also understand they have a family, children, games, ect ect ect. Thier busy so it's my job to ensure we are here when they are ready. Both organizations do alot for vets and nationally are numbers are dropping. We do not want to lose the ear of the lawmakers in Washington but can only keep it by our numbers. We do try and fight the good fight, if your local VSO is caca then try finding a good one. Or change it.