Are people allowed to wear OCP bottoms with a civilian top?

Tom Dinkle — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 05:51:51 -0400

Two recent situations brought this question up for me. A ltc posted pictures of themselves posed in ocp bottoms and civilian top while out on a recreational hike. There is also a ruck scheduled this week with uniform being ocp bottom and civilian tops. Very odd. And from my understanding, generally neither of these things are allowed. Ar 670-1 says "Civilian clothing f. No part of a prescribed uniform, except those items not exclusively military in character, may be worn with civilian clothing", so I'm wondering what is going on here

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2021 6:59 AM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 06:59:36 -0400

Sir, it depends on what “civilian tops” are. As mentioned in the 670-1, “not exclusively military in character,” can be a gray area for unit t-shirts, hoodies, etc. It depends on the garrison/post command policies, but within the two stations I have been in, as long as they were unit-approved apparels, we were able to wear “civilian-like” clothings for PT, ruck, and during organizational days. Every military post and unit is different so this is a difficult question to answer.

Response by 1SG Russell S. made Apr 5 at 2021 7:18 AM

1SG Russell S. — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 07:18:47 -0400

Of all the things to worry about........

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2021 9:36 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 09:36:43 -0400

Something to consider before this is why does it matter to you that Soldiers are using a t-shirt as part of a ruck or hike? Who is it hurting? Who is it offending? What is your purpose for this information?

When it's a recreational, optional, or similar event I have seen the uniform standard be relaxed for those events. I have also seen Soldiers switch to a t-shirt or hoodie for when they need to grab gas or something from the grocery store before heading home.

1LT Private RallyPoint Member has a good point. Unit t-shirts, hoodies, and other items are a very common thing. I myself have assisted multiple units in designing their own shirts to be worn with authorization from the unit commander and CSM or 1SG as applicable. This apparel is worn during the duty day, at PT, or at recreational events. It's not just company's and detachments that have unit apparel, you'll find battalions thru corps with their own unit apparel or authorized civilian clothes that are worn with the uniform for specific purposes or for esprit de corps.

So you being listed as a Civilian, the question must be asked. Why do you care? What's your intention with this information? I ask because I don't feel as though we have been given the full scope here.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Apr 5 at 2021 10:24 AM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 10:24:34 -0400

I'm retired, so.... I basically wear what I want unless on post. When it comes to the ASU, I don't wear that right now because I haven't had occasion to attend anything worth shaving my beard. If I wear the ASU I will shave. Other than that, I don't worry about it.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 5 at 2021 12:01 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 12:01:01 -0400

You understand that Army Regulations only apply to people in the Army, right? Civilians can wear ACU bottoms with Dress Blue Tops while wearing Campaign Covers and ballet slippers if they feel like it.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Apr 5 at 2021 12:22 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 12:22:55 -0400

The Commander can modify uniform requirements and wear within their own sphere o influence at any time. Technically, unit PT Shirts aren't authorized by AR 670-1 (or at least they didn't used to be). But that didn't mean each unit didn't have them. But when you go OUTSIDE that unit, good luck. I couldn't wear a DIFFERENT unit's PT Shirt. And I couldn't wear ANY unit PT shirt to an NCO Academy. This is really no different - Commander authorizing a different uniform for THAT UNIT only for that single event.

As far as wear in the civilian world, OCP / ACU / BDU pants are EXCEPTIONALLY good cargo pants. And they are widely available through army/navy surplus AND second-hand stores as servicemembers retire or they just change out their "cook whites" for new uniforms as part of their uniform maintenance. OCP / ACU / BDU pants are probably the single most common uniform item to find in the civilian world - popular with hunters, landscapers, survivalists, hikers, and even high schoolers. Personally, I would argue that their proliferance in the civilian world would take them OUT of the "exclusively military in character" realm and into simply camouflaged cargo pants.

Response by CSM Danny S. made Apr 5 at 2021 12:32 PM

CSM Danny S. — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 12:32:14 -0400

There are so many variables to this. Are the bottoms OCP or MultiCam? MultiCam isn't a uniform anymore and can be worm to change the oil in the car. As for uniform variations, while they don't follow reg if you see the entire unit in the same uniform is was directed. The commander sets the uniform for the occasion. While it may not follow regs the commander does have latitude in this situation. Have you ever seen a unit do a ruck march in the summer APFU and wearing boots? I have. The bottom line is that if the CDR and 1SG approve the uniform for the situation, that will be the uniform you wear.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2021 6:31 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 18:31:54 -0400

“Ruck scheduled this week”. If the commander directs that to be the uniform, then “that’s” the uniform. End of story.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis made Apr 5 at 2021 8:12 PM

Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 20:12:33 -0400

I will treat this as a serious question, and try to give a serious answer. Questions posted in RP should be given respectful and thoughtful answers.

First, how much like civilian wear are the OCB bottoms? If the look like bottoms a lot of people wear for, say, a fashion, then I say that it's not a big deal. For example, I once had a pair of pants that looked very much like the double-knit blue pants worn with the uniform. But, they weren't...I just got them at the department store; they looked fashionable. I was approached about it, but I explained (well...see above) and that was that.

On the other hand, if an article clearly looks like it would be part of a uniform, then it's part of a uniform, and should be worn only with the uniform.

As far as the OCB's in question, there might be a grey area. If the LTC's retired, cut 'm a break.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2021 9:30 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 05 Apr 2021 21:30:36 -0400

There are plenty of commercial purveyors of OCP patterned clothing. I'd say that prevents the pants from meeting that "exclusively military in character" requirement.
If it were a part of the uniform that included the name, rank, and service branch, then I could see it being a problem.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Apr 6 at 2021 1:05 AM

SPC James Neidig — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 01:05:29 -0400

He is a LTC he sets the Uniform of the day, he is probably a Battalion Commander so his word is law unless it is shot down by a higher rank

Response by SPC Travis Grizzard made Apr 6 at 2021 1:41 PM

SPC Travis Grizzard — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 13:41:10 -0400

Were they OCP or MultiCam?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2021 8:36 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Apr 2021 20:36:05 -0400

You’ll figure out most of AR-670-1 has the phrase “or at discretion of commander” for most portions. Meaning the commander can make changes as he/she sees fit such as civilian t shirt with ACU OCP bottoms.