Are personnel with Article 15s better than personnel who cannot pass body composition or APFT?

SPC Matthew Birkinbine — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 17:27:02 -0500

I have been flagged for the Army Body Composition Program (I can pass my PT test with over 70% in each event, however I am on a P2 profile; but I am also recognized as knowledgeable in my job). Looking at AR 600-8-19, it says of soldiers flagged for UCMJ that once the soldier completes sentence and flag has been closed favorably, s/he regains promotion eligibility without re-boarding; however there's no mention of re-boarding or regaining eligibility for APFT or ABCP flag removals.

Response by SPC Matthew Birkinbine made Feb 27 at 2015 5:33 PM

SPC Matthew Birkinbine — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 17:33:02 -0500

In my opinion, if you're simply flagged as a result of pt failure, or body composition, you should be able to retain promotion eligibility without re-boarding upon removal of the flag. Someone obviously sees promotion potential in you. However, given judicial action/NJP, I think you should have to return to the board due to the fact that what you did could have had an adverse effect on personnel in your charge. In my opinion, date of rank in the rank they have after sentencing should start over, and each rank start like new for the person who is flagged for Judicial or non-judicial punishment.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Feb 27 at 2015 8:42 PM

SPC(P) Jay Heenan — Fri, 27 Feb 2015 20:42:16 -0500

APFT will not cause you to permanently lose your promotable status. Being placed on ABCP will cause you to have to go to the board again. I am pretty sure that this information is correct...

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 7:07 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 07:07:58 -0500

You will lose your promotable status unless you have a valid APFT on your promotion point worksheet. You will also lose your promotable status if you do not meet the ABCP standard. A flag can stay in place for up to six months if you do not correct the deficiency, I usually recommend to my commanders to initiate a bar along with the flag. If the Soldier cannot overcome the bar the flag is lifted and a new flag for separation is initiated.

There can be no favorable action on a Soldier that is flagged. If a promotable specialist can not meet the Army standards I would not let him/her remain promotable until they could prove to me that they can meet the standards. There are a enough NCOs in the Army already that don't meet the standards, why would I want to have another one?

I am not being an asshole I am just telling you the way it is, I hope that you can overcome the flag and get back on track.

Good luck!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 10:23 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 10:23:24 -0500

Any Soldier Flagged needs to 'improve' in order for it to be lifted. If ABCP, then make the necessary progress, if UCMJ action (Art 15) was taken then serve out the requirements, do it well, show you have learned and drive on.
Either way, you are showing improvement on yourself, going past the issue that got you into trouble to start with.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2015 10:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Feb 2015 10:41:12 -0500

Not always accurate. Both can either be great soldiers or terrible soldiers.

Response by SGT Micheal Adams made Mar 1 at 2015 10:20 PM

SGT Micheal Adams — Sun, 01 Mar 2015 22:20:16 -0500

If your PT profile is already at 2 your body fat should be your main concern. You can not let yourself go because you can not PT like everyone else. I am a fat body I have been on deployments where I have had to stick to a way of eating I didn't like. I felt better and although I couldn't PT like the others I looked good in my uniform and took pride in myself. I've been there done that done whine to me about nosy fat and PT.

Response by SGT Joseph Jones made Mar 16 at 2015 6:45 AM

SGT Joseph Jones — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 06:45:02 -0400

I would say no one soldier is better than the other. If you've been flagged for P2 when it's lifted you are eligible. It should have been lifted when you pass Pt test. I have had the same issue im a short dumpy man always was but I lifted. I am 5'6 195 they have to measure my neck and all and get BMi or I don't make weight. Always passed PT tests with 70% or greater in basic always 100% every one I wouldn't sweat it you'll get good leadership that sees your hard work. Ar also says its commanders desrcetion on a lot of things. So your captain can promote while your flagged P2 I don't think it affects promotion as long as your passing.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 28 at 2018 1:48 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 28 Oct 2018 01:48:53 -0400

I don't think you can look at just those things and decide whether one soldier is better than another. You have to look at the "total package". I've been in for over 9 years and seen PT studs that were crap workers/poor team members and I've seen people who are flagged for failing HT/WT or APFT that were some of the best soldiers I've had the privilege to serve with. It's not black and white as just those issues.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2019 9:39 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 21:39:16 -0400

I would consult AR 600-9 and read for yourself. Otherwise CSM Private RallyPoint Member has said it best!

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Aug 21 at 2019 7:29 PM

CW4 Craig Urban — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 19:29:25 -0400

We all made a mistake in life. 15's are administrative. Now to get a TSI it will matter.