Are retirees subject to UCMJ?

2015-06-23T21:49:01-04:00

According to Article 2 of UCMJ, "Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay" are covered by UCMJ. Does this mean that retirees can be charged with UCMJ violations even long after retirement and when not doing anything related to the military? Has this ever happened?

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/ucmjsubject.htm

Punitive Articles of the UCMJ

Articles 77 through 134 of the UCMJ are known as the "punitive articles," -- that is, specific offenses which, if violated, can result in punishment by court-martial. Here is information about Who is Subject to the Provisions of the UCMJ?.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 9:52 PM

2015-06-23T21:52:09-04:00

I want to see the comments on this.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jun 23 at 2015 9:55 PM

2015-06-23T21:55:48-04:00

From what I've heard only in rare circumstances such as you're a patient at a military hospital and you piss hot.

I would love to hear the straight skinny from a JAG type though.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jun 23 at 2015 10:38 PM

2015-06-23T22:38:25-04:00

As I understand it... Officers are more so than NCOs/Enlisted. But, as Article 2 states "(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay" are subject to the UCMJ. So, it appears to be all. LTC Yinon Weiss

That said, having dealt with issues, with regards to service members who had retired, and had been involved in criminal behavior... Generally the Army will only bring a person back on active duty for UCMJ actions for very very serious crimes.

Many violations can be adjudicated via administrative processes after we leave. The bottomline, is once we leave, the Army can still reach out and touch us in one way or another.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Jun 23 at 2015 10:44 PM

2015-06-23T22:44:28-04:00

Sir,
I believe one such instance is Providing classified information to an enemy before it is declassified or espionage.
Its under these circumstance's that a veteran can face UCMJ actions.
At least that's what I was informed on my ETS date.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 10:48 PM

2015-06-23T22:48:42-04:00

If memory serves me correct, the Soldier on death row at Fort Leavenworth, was brought to trial and convicted due to this. It was the reason why he was able to be tried under UCMJ. Read more into this, but I believe I'm somewhat correct.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 23 at 2015 10:50 PM

2015-06-23T22:50:48-04:00

The military has brought back a retirees on to active duty status for a crimes they committed in the military. I do a lot a old case research and I remember one such case. I am sure I can find that one or another online.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2015 11:16 PM

2015-06-23T23:16:55-04:00

And here's another pretty long winded article to on the subject:
https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/DOCLIBS/MILITARYLAWREVIEW.NSF/0/47c2b664085060fc85256e5b00576e6e/$FILE/Volume175Davidson.pdf

Response by PO1 Don Robbins made Jun 24 at 2015 12:32 AM

2015-06-24T00:32:50-04:00

when

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 24 at 2015 6:55 AM

2015-06-24T06:55:33-04:00

http://archive.armytimes.com/article/20080120/NEWS/801200315/Retired-master-sergeant-court-again

Though this occurred while he was in, and they recalled him after. This one stinks of breaking the "Spirit" of the Double Jeopardy exclusion.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jun 24 at 2015 9:36 AM

2015-06-24T09:36:07-04:00

LTC Yinon Weiss Very interesting article, but I didn't see that it mentioned Reserved Retired Military personnel drawing retirement pay and benefits. Did I miss that oe is that consider under: (4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay. Your thoughts?

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Jun 24 at 2015 1:01 PM

2015-06-24T13:01:17-04:00

Just found this article discussing how Rumsfield may have considered bringing back a group of retired Generals to court martial them for their criticism of him. So it is theoretically possible. The article does a good job of explaining the conditions needed:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2006/04/could_rumsfeld_courtmartial_the_retired_generals.html

Could Rumsfeld court-martial the retired generals?

Donald Rumsfeld has a notorious vindictive streak. How low will he stoop to pursue it? Let's put him to the test. If he wanted to get really brutal, Rumsfeld could convene a court-martial and prosecute the six retired generals who have been calling for his head. Military law, if read...

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jun 24 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-06-24T13:17:18-04:00

I am sure some retirees are afraid of being called back to active duty to face UCMJ for saying disrespectful things about the President however, that is a long and drawn out process.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 24 at 2015 2:42 PM

2015-06-24T14:42:30-04:00

My understanding has always been you can be held to the UCMJ for anything that happened while you were active duty or for items such as fraud as in applies to benefits (i.e falsely claiming dependents or disability). Essentially the guy briefing told us that there is no statute of limitations on stuff you do while on active duty so you better do it right.

Basically you could be recalled to active duty and then have the articles applied.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Jun 24 at 2015 8:13 PM

2015-06-24T20:13:42-04:00

As a former civilian cop, I would chime in as such. If the crime is civilian in nature, on non government property, not involving military it would be handled by civilian; local state or federal even if the charges are underr 18 USC. If there is that military component, the provost "can" ask for jurisdiction in prosecution if it is of military involvement off government property, or can take jurisdiction if on government property unless it is a charge related to terrorism or treason whereby US Attourney's Office and FBI have sole jurisdiction.

Response by 1LT William Clardy made Jun 25 at 2015 12:22 AM

2015-06-25T00:22:27-04:00

LTC Yinon Weiss, you might find this "Military Law Review" article informative:
[NEW URL]:
https://tjaglcspublic.army.mil/documents/27431/1450568/2003-Spring-Davidson-Court-Martial+Jurisdiction+Over+Retirees.pdf/9bc9c380-c79d-454c-830c-c90b14a0b5f2?version=1.0&download=true

[obsolete URL]:
https://www.jagcnet.army.mil/DOCLIBS/MILITARYLAWREVIEW.NSF/0/47c2b664085060fc85256e5b00576e6e/$FILE/Volume175Davidson.pdf

9bc9c380-c79d-454c-830c-c90b14a0b5f2

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Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Jun 25 at 2015 12:58 AM

2015-06-25T00:58:23-04:00

Kinda funny for us Retired Reservists. We're subject if hospitalized by an armed force. The usual of bringing you back for a crime committed while on duty still applies. Other than that, I don't see any other what fors or by fors. VA isn't an armed force but they can send to you a military hospital where you would be subject to UCMJ.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made May 16 at 2016 11:53 AM

2016-05-16T11:53:15-04:00

Absolutely! But you would have to do something pretty harsh, or on a military installation for this to occur. Most of the time I think it would be for military-related offenses.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2016 9:04 AM

2016-11-01T09:04:27-04:00

Simple answer is, yes. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/802

But like many things regarding law, especially military/federal law... it's complicated. The articles linked by fellow users below are good examples. It'd have to be serious and typically related to the military or occurring during military service.

10 U.S. Code § 802 - Art. 2. Persons subject to this chapter

In clause (1), the words “Members of” are substituted for the words “All persons belonging to”. The words “all” and “the same” are omitted as surplusage. The word “when” is inserted after the word “dates”.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2016 9:06 AM

2016-11-01T09:06:25-04:00

I can say specifically that offenses occurring on military exclusive jurisdiction involving retired member, no they are not typically charged under UCMJ. They are charged under local state or federal codes/statutes. I have never personally witnessed otherwise.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2016 6:44 PM

2016-11-06T18:44:10-05:00

If a retiree violate military regulations, particularly on a military base, he/she can be prosecuted under the UCMJ. However I don't see a retiree being prosecuted in such a manner after retirement (if she/he lives in a civilian community). Gross violations (spying, sobotage, etc) might be exceptions. How about some of the military lawyers taking a crack at this?

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2016 7:02 PM

2016-11-06T19:02:30-05:00

I learned something here. I would have said no, but, Art 2 is pretty clear.

Response by SSG Shafter Baker made Nov 15 at 2016 6:12 PM

2016-11-15T18:12:43-05:00

You sure can be. However, in most cases, the Military authority has more important things to do and will generally leave charging and trying to civilian courts. It is my understanding that in order to permanently strip you of your retiree benefits though, a Courts Martial authority is the only way to take them.

Response by SSG Duane Tyler made Nov 15 at 2016 6:26 PM

2016-11-15T18:26:40-05:00

You can lose your retirement pay if you are locked up for a crime committed as a civilian too.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2016 7:15 PM

2016-11-15T19:15:41-05:00

I'm sure if it is serious enough, they would. While I was in, I detained retirees for DWI/DUI and shoplifting in the BX. The DWI/DUI got a ticket and could not drive on base for a year. Shoplifting got a ticket and BX privileges revoked. I personally think in most of the cases where a retiree was called back was due to them committing an offense while they were on active duty.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2016 5:07 PM

2016-12-19T17:07:10-05:00

My girlfriend has been sexually harassed and threatened at her work place by a prior service member that works with here and the company has completely ignored it is there and thing that I can do or that the military can assist with even though he is only prior service and not retired?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2016 5:07 PM

2016-12-19T17:07:22-05:00

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 20 at 2017 3:42 AM

2017-02-20T03:42:31-05:00

I don't know but as I said earlier any retired military personnel are subject to the UCMJ. If you did a felony crime I would hope so. But then again innocent until proven guilty.

Response by SGT Joseph Miller made Mar 30 at 2017 3:23 PM

2017-03-30T15:23:57-04:00

It can be done ,take this 4 star air force general who was retired for 6 years when he was reduced too a 2 star general and lost over 60k in retirement pay for coerced sex which they didn't even start investigating until six years after he retired and he was just busted back this past February.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/01/air-force-busts-retired-four-star-general-down-two-ranks-coerced-sex/97356020/

Air Force busts retired four-star general down two ranks for coerced sex

Retired four-star general stripped two ranks and $60,00 in pension payments in sex scandal.

Response by SCPO John-florida Killin made Mar 30 at 2017 3:33 PM

2017-03-30T15:33:32-04:00

I wouldn't worry about it. During my tenure with the Riverside County Sheriffs Department, I found the military was not the least bit concerned with the off duty antics of their active duty personnel.

Response by SFC Wade W. made Mar 30 at 2017 3:46 PM

2017-03-30T15:46:46-04:00

Stolen valor would also fall under this for retirees. Our check is an Annuity, not a retirement check. We still technically are in the military (Retired Reserve). I don't think they do a very good job of explaining the teir system or a retiree's status when out-processing.

Response by SrA Jeremy Roy made Mar 30 at 2017 3:55 PM

2017-03-30T15:55:24-04:00

Retirees vs separated members are two different things. The UCMJ has no authority over separated members unless the offense occurred while the member was still under military jurisdiction.
In cases of separated members say selling defense secrets to China or something, the offender would likely be handled by civilian channels and prosecuted under the National Defense Espionage Act. Investigated by the FBI, and tried in a US District Court.

Response by SSG Chris Allsopp made Mar 30 at 2017 6:08 PM

2017-03-30T18:08:57-04:00

Yes, and yes, and no. You can be called back for criminal behavior performed before leaving, you can be called back for criminal behavior after leaving(in paid retirement), or you can be called back for espionage. Cue the music! "Learning and growing!"

Response by 1SG Leon Espe made Mar 30 at 2017 6:32 PM

2017-03-30T18:32:07-04:00

I have been retired since 1971. I seem to remember being told that retirees can be tried only for acts of treason or spying by UCMJ. Any other crime to be tried by civilian authorities. http://www.vfwwebcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=10740.0

UCMJ Applicable to Retirees:

Response by 1SG Billye Jackson made Mar 30 at 2017 7:19 PM

2017-03-30T19:19:59-04:00

Two EM killed one of my Troops in Germany, By the time it was found out( EM was Bragging about it in a Bar after ETS) he was Brought back to Active Duty and CM. Found Guilty and is now in Leavenworth. For Life.

Response by 1stSgt John Talbot made Mar 30 at 2017 7:21 PM

2017-03-30T19:21:44-04:00

Think they just did this to army general.....

Response by SFC Richard Madison made Mar 30 at 2017 8:06 PM

2017-03-30T20:06:17-04:00

Of course the military can do what ever they never really let go.

Response by PFC Michael Gysin made Mar 30 at 2017 9:05 PM

2017-03-30T21:05:35-04:00

Most people do not understand the ideology behind the Universal Military Law and the impact that it has on all vets and retired service members.....

Response by 1SG Larry Taggart made Mar 30 at 2017 9:56 PM

2017-03-30T21:56:48-04:00

Retirees are subject to UCMJ under article 2.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Mar 30 at 2017 10:07 PM

2017-03-30T22:07:30-04:00

To a degree yes we are still subject to military law; however, this doesn't mean that one can get an article 15 or have to follow orders from an active duty or retiree superior in rank. I think the rule of thumb is if it can get you to prison then it's a possibility. And no I've never heard of it.

Response by SFC George Smith made Mar 30 at 2017 10:32 PM

2017-03-30T22:32:01-04:00

I knew they could But it would have to be a Serious Crime Federal or Capitol committed on US property or against another service member ... otherwise it would be cost prohibitive...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 30 at 2017 10:33 PM

2017-03-30T22:33:54-04:00

Hahahaha..... if yoi get paid. MEB baby and fuck the Army weeny lol

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Mar 30 at 2017 11:08 PM

2017-03-30T23:08:51-04:00

The following is fairly close to what I've always been told; one either the recall is to face charges for something they committed while on active duty or as a retiree, committed some act that brings discredit to the military. Generally the military will toss it up to the U.S. Attorney - if they won't prosecute and the charges are serious enough the the service will call the member. On a sad note - unless its a high visibility case the US Attorney General will blow it off.

"Did You Know? Retired Soldiers and the Uniform Code of Military Justice

WASHINGTON — Have you ever heard a retired Soldier say, “They can’t touch me now; I’ve retired.”? Fortunately, for the sake of military justice, this is not true when it comes to retired Soldiers who violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) while they were on active duty or in a retired status.

Under Article 2 of the UCMJ, the Army maintains court-martial jurisdiction over retired personnel. Army Regulation 27-10, Military Justice, states “Retired members of a regular component of the Armed Forces who are entitled to pay are subject to the provisions of the UCMJ . . . and may be tried by court-martial for violations of the UCMJ that occurred while they were on active duty or while in a retired status.” Department of the Army policy, however, does limit these trials to cases where extraordinary circumstances are present. The Army normally declines to prosecute retired Soldiers unless their crimes have clear ties to the military, or are clearly service discrediting. If necessary to facilitate courts-martial action, retired Soldiers may be ordered to active duty.

The regulation adds that “Retired Reserve Component Soldiers are subject to recall to active duty for the investigation of UCMJ offenses they are alleged to have committed while in a Title 10 duty status, for trial by court-martial, or for proceedings under UCMJ, Article 15.” Forfeitures imposed under the UCMJ, Article 15 may even be applied against a Soldier’s retired pay."

Response by SFC Tracy Scott made Mar 30 at 2017 11:16 PM

2017-03-30T23:16:18-04:00

10 U.S. Code § 688 - Retired members: authority to order to active duty; duties
under the guidance of the above U.S. Code the Secretary of Defence Under regulations prescribed, The Secretary concerned may, to the extent consistent with other provisions of law, assign a member ordered to active duty under this section to such duties as the Secretary considers necessary in the interests of national defense. As with anything you can only be retained for a period of 24 months. ( Note as long as you fall within the parameters pf the Code.)

Response by SMSgt Gordon Herron made Mar 31 at 2017 9:07 AM

2017-03-31T09:07:25-04:00

That MSG is currently on death row at leavenworth. Timothy Hennis is his name.

Response by Cpl Anthony Montes made Mar 31 at 2017 11:46 AM

2017-03-31T11:46:19-04:00

Nothing happened to Hilary Clinton so really cares

Response by SSG Jay OConnor made Mar 31 at 2017 11:56 AM

2017-03-31T11:56:42-04:00

I would think yes, for a crime that was committed while on active duty with no statute of limitations like murder.

Response by PVT Paul Vary made Mar 31 at 2017 3:38 PM

2017-03-31T15:38:28-04:00

Any retired or otherwise former military members should be subject to the UCMJ; it also depends what MOS the serviceperson has. That would be true of me, as I was a 16E10; Hawk Fire Control crewman, I could be brought back in to the service and court-martialed for revealing info related to the missile system.

Response by SFC Jerome Blake made Mar 31 at 2017 4:10 PM

2017-03-31T16:10:54-04:00

Not only are you subject to but , you are also called back for appeals and restoration as well

Response by SPC Larry Weigel Jr. made Mar 31 at 2017 4:22 PM

2017-03-31T16:22:46-04:00

I don't know about anyone else but I feel that we should be acting with honor and discipline not matter what. As vets we should set an example for others to follow. Of course this is just my opinion.

Response by MAJ Glenn Lasater made Mar 31 at 2017 7:25 PM

2017-03-31T19:25:30-04:00

I'm no lawyer but I'm proficient in the English language. There are two classes of retired personnel subject to the UCMJ; 1) "Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay." and 2) "Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force."

In the first case, only retired members of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, and Regular Marine Corps are subject to the UCMJ. They don't have to actually be receiving pay but only entitled to receive pay. Retired members of a reserve component are only subject to the UCMJ if they are hospitalized. Otherwise, they're not subject to it. Retired members of the National Guard are not subject to the UCMJ.

Response by LTC Russ Smith made Mar 31 at 2017 7:45 PM

2017-03-31T19:45:27-04:00

there is a stolen valor offender here locally. It appears it is a clerk in the United States Army he somehow managed to put awards and decorations on his DD 214 that he never earned. He never left the continental United States while in the US Army from 2006 to 2011. It's been a drawnout process trying to get this guy investigated. Finally CID investigated. They have referred his case to the defense criminal investigative service, human resources command, and the VA to recoup any benefits he may have received unlawfully. I hope they recall this little bastard to active-duty court-martial and reducing the private and stick them in Leavenworth for six months before dishonorably discharging him back into the civilian world. He joined the military order of the Purple Heart and ascended to state commander here in Oklahoma.

Response by COL Brian Shea made Mar 31 at 2017 10:03 PM

2017-03-31T22:03:34-04:00

In regards to the wording specifying "regular component" I am wondering if any such authority applies to retired reservists that are drawing pay. Yes, the reserves have a component number, but may not be considered "regular" as in "Regular Army". Of course if an activated reservist commits a serious offense while on active duty they probably are subject to recall.

Response by SGT Chester Beedle made Apr 1 at 2017 12:42 AM

2017-04-01T00:42:37-04:00

It seems pretty clear that those who retired from the Regular Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines/CG are subject. "Grey Area" Retirees from the Reserves and NG whiile receiving medical treatment as well.
Not sure sure about retired Reservists or Guardsman who are past age 60, have the blue ID now, and are receiving pay.
This is an article about how retirees are not likely to be called back to be punished for smoking pot, and it cites the UCMJ as well as the opinion of a law professor at Yale, and it cites how there was talk of charging Patreaus under the UCMJ when he was caught cheating on his wife after retirement. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/07/14/retirees-unlikely-to-face-ucmj-charges-over-legal-pot.html

The UCMJ itself actually states this, http://www.ucmj.us/sub-chapter-1-general-provisions/802-article-2-persons-subject-to-this-chapter also at https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/802

(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:
...

(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.

(5) Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force.

...

Retirees Unlikely to Face UCMJ Over Legal Pot

Retired from the military and want to light up a joint in a state that has legalized pot? Getting high will put you in a legal gray area, but no need to be paranoid.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2017 4:23 AM

2017-04-01T04:23:43-04:00

It seems ridiculous. I think so, especially if it's a situation one can't control. Or even just a simple mistake that humans make, like say a fight at a bar that turns into assault or some bull domestic charge. One has to always keep that "double whammy" factor in the back of their mind. The simple fact is, you're a product of the armed forces still being paid by the armed forces so you are expected to act like so. Just goes to show that no matter what, when, where you are, you must have a support system in place.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2017 9:38 AM

2017-04-01T09:38:59-04:00

They can be IF the offense in question occurred while you were on duty. Oh and you can also be reactivated if you are a witness to a crime, if you have testimony pertinent to the case. Officers can be reactivated at any time for ANY reason after retirement up to age 60.

There's a lot of ways you can be pulled back in. All part and parcel of signing on the dotted line. I even had to explain to soldiers in April of 2011 that if they didn't receive their full pay, they still had to do their jobs. Told them to look at the reenlistment paperwork - your paid pretty much when the government can do it.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2017 11:56 AM

2017-04-01T11:56:51-04:00

My understanding is YES but I'm not a JAG and wouldn't even qualify as a "sea lawyer". Regular Officers retired ID cards read Indefinite for EAS and they can be called back by appropriate policy or law under a national emergency. Reserves get a bit different depending on category. There are so many variations of Reserve and Guard and I'm not familiar with any. In the USMC even a 20 year retired Enlisted transfers to the Fleet Marine Corps Reserve until the 30 year mark and then they transfer to the Retired List. I believe folks in the FMCR can be recalled and in the most extreme cases maybe even Regular Retired but don't quote me on it. Any that already have 30 years and request retirement automatically transfer to the Retired List. I've read about retired Officer and Enlisted being called back to face punishment, so again I'd say yes. There are infinite possibilities of offenses that might warrant it, and it would depend on the offense and any agreement between civil and military jurisdiction. I'd imagine it would be whomever could get the greatest benefit for the cost that would prosecute and whether the offense impacted more on the civil or military community.

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2017 11:57 AM

2017-04-01T11:57:32-04:00

As an active duty SF member I can say yes this does apply

Response by MSG James Abbatoy made Apr 1 at 2017 5:48 PM

2017-04-01T17:48:17-04:00

I remember an MSG that I worked with who was pulled out of retirement for UCMJ action for falsifying his 201 file. He awarded himself the soldiers medal in order to obtain an additional 10% in his retired pay.

Response by MSG Edward McPhee made Apr 2 at 2017 1:37 PM

2017-04-02T13:37:10-04:00

In addition this was his third trial on this matter. Found guilty in first trial, overturned and found not guilty in second. In this instance Double Jeopardy didn't apply for UCMJ in which he was found guilty over 20 years later due to advancement of DNA technology and other circumstances

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2017 4:28 PM

2017-04-02T16:28:52-04:00

Yes. Here is a really good and short article discussing this topic.

http://www.caaflog.com/2017/03/29/the-nmcca-affirms-that-retired-service-members-are-still-in-the-military-and-still-subject-to-the-ucmj/?hilite=%22Retired%22

The NMCCA affirms that retired service members are still in the military and still subject to the...

Ina published issued yesterday, in United States v. Dinger, __ M.J. __, No. 201600108 (N.M. Ct. Crim. App. Mar. 28, 2017) (link to slip op.), a three-judge panel of the Navy-Marine Corps CCA affir…

Response by PO3 Scot Fahey made Apr 3 at 2017 11:03 AM

2017-04-03T11:03:33-04:00

Those who held Security levels are bound, forevermore to maintain protected information, Discharge Honorable or otherwise

Response by LTC Alan Murphy made Apr 3 at 2017 11:08 AM

2017-04-03T11:08:53-04:00

Don't be fooled.....There is no statute of limitations if the Federal Bureaucrats are in charge.......There are no Constitutional Rights if the Federal Bureaucrats are in charge....There is no equal justice under the law if the Federal Bureaucrats are in charge....There is no right to a speedy trail if the Federal Bureaucrats are in charge.....There is no Rule Of Law if the Federal Bureaucrats are in charge....You always have the right to an appeal....But remember the same Federal Bureaucrats in charge will be the same ones determining your appellate rights....Statistics are not on your side for appeals in the lower courts...Appeals to the Supreme Courts are even less..... The Supreme Courts decide which cases they will hear, about 80 each year. They decide another 50 without hearing arguments. The Supreme Court gets about 7000 requests to hear cases per year, so there are many cases that don't get heard....And out of those 50 to 80 cases successfully brought before the Supreme Courts are brought by well connected lawyers and lawyer groups who have interned or have interns working at the Supreme Courts to help push their cases ahead of the other 7000... Now in the Army Court of Criminal Appeals your chances are even less when appealing to the Federal military Bureaucrats... and getting an appeal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces (CAAF) (the equivalent of the Supreme Court) is even less when appealing to the Federal Military Bureaucrats ....So as I said in the beginning don't be fooled....The Constitution, your legal rights have been eroded for decades now by the Federal Bureaucrats.......Your a fool if you think otherwise....

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2017 1:48 PM

2017-04-03T13:48:17-04:00

Only if you are place on a reserve list, if you are permanent retired they can not due to health reasons it states, you can not be called for any reason

Response by PFC Howard Bryant Blackshear made Apr 3 at 2017 2:06 PM

2017-04-03T14:06:55-04:00

As long as you are "Government Property for Life",They can do whatever, like General Allen, dealing with RUSSIANS"'.

Response by LT John Ritenour made Apr 3 at 2017 2:54 PM

2017-04-03T14:54:28-04:00

The specific case referred to in this article is :
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/18/us/death-row-stories-hennis/

The courts have held the double jeorpady doesn't attach when separate sovereigns are involved. In this specific case, the defendant was tried twice by the state and once by the Federal Government. The State of NC tried him twice. The 1st time he was found guilty. He appealed his conviction and was granted a new trial. At his 2nd trial, he was found innocent. That means the state of North Carolina can never try him again - even though he's guilty - because of double jeopardy. On balance it's a very good Amendment (to the Constitution.) Yes sometimes the guilty escape punishment - but it prevents prosecutors from retrying cases indefinitely until they gain a conviction. Due to advances in DNA technology - authorities were able to conduct tests based on semen samples collected from the victims. The DNA matched that collected from the defendant and established he had had sex with the victims that evening. Due to double jeopardy, the state of NC was unable to retry him. As the crime was committed on a military reservation, the military can and did assert jurisdistiction. Since the defendant was retired and drawing retirement pay, he was subject to the UCMJ. He was ordered back to active duty and tried again in a military court martial (The equivalent of a Federal Court Trial.) He was found guilty of premediatated murder and sentenced to death. He now awaits his sentence at the MDB (Military Disciplinary Barracks) in solitary confinement. I predict he's more likely to die of old age than ever see his sentence executed. I'm not a legal beagal or defense attorney, but I find one aspect of this case troubling. State and Federal Authorities have joint jurisdiction over the base - could it be argued they are effectively therefore one sovereign for purposes of the 5th Amendment ?

Tim Hennis murder trials surround double jeopardy issue - CNN.com

The story of Army soldier Timothy Hennis and the North Carolina stabbing deaths of a mother and her two girls is full of twists and turns.

Response by PO1 Steven Ewing made Apr 3 at 2017 3:46 PM

2017-04-03T15:46:27-04:00

So how does the new retirement system affect this? If there is no retirement pay after 20 years then I would expect that the "Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay" won't apply until a veteran starts collecting his/her money in his/her 60s.

Response by MSgt John Mc Carron made Apr 3 at 2017 3:52 PM

2017-04-03T15:52:28-04:00

If this is the case then why do we have Vets sleeping on the streets. If they can pull us in for anything then they should take care of them.

Response by Sgt Charles Welling made Apr 3 at 2017 5:13 PM

2017-04-03T17:13:49-04:00

Keep your danged nose clean and it is not an issue................... Other than that, it appears if you draw the benefits you are subject to the law, seems quite fair to me.

Response by CDR Stan Fuger made Apr 3 at 2017 7:56 PM

2017-04-03T19:56:01-04:00

A retiree absolutely can be held to court-martial after retirement.

Response by MSG Alberto Rodriguez made Apr 3 at 2017 8:14 PM

2017-04-03T20:14:46-04:00

Retirees can only be charged under article two for offenses they committed while on active duty, or while subject to UCMJ.

Response by SFC Thomas Hightower Hightower made Apr 3 at 2017 9:20 PM

2017-04-03T21:20:32-04:00

Rape and murder is pretty heavy.

Response by PO2 Dan Shulla made Apr 3 at 2017 11:15 PM

2017-04-03T23:15:32-04:00

My understanding and it may be in error that with Navy/Marine Corps, that leave active duty at 20 years are not retired but transfer to Fleet Reserve, and Marine Corps equivalent...then at 30 years are retired. So at that 30 year mark, they would no longer be subject to the UCMJ and be able to be recalled.

Response by SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint made Apr 3 at 2017 11:27 PM

2017-04-03T23:27:19-04:00

Ask RET SFC Clyde Conrad :)
https://www.army.mil/article/109525/Clyde_Conrad_arrested_for_espionage__August_23__1988

Clyde Conrad arrested for espionage, August 23, 1988

Fort Huachuca, AZ. - As a hard-working noncommissioned officer in the G3 War Plans Section of the 8th Infantry, Sergeant First Class Clyde Conrad was known simply as

Response by CPL Johnny Davis made Apr 4 at 2017 6:54 AM

2017-04-04T06:54:07-04:00

I don't know if their is a limit, but I believe it all depends on the crime and if your get money from the Military. I was a E-4 getting ready to join the green to gold program, If i renewed my contract. But about 6 months after I got home. One of my cousin's used my computer to contact be friend. My cousin ended up killing g the man when he found out the man was s child molester. But because I was receiving Military pay and he used my computer. I almost got dragged in front of Jag. So yes if you do get money from the military, you can be procescuted under the UCMJ, it depends they really push the issue.

Response by SSG Nicole Johnson made Apr 4 at 2017 1:55 PM

2017-04-04T13:55:45-04:00

Yes, you can be brought back on active duty to be punished for something that happened prior to retiring. I haven't seen it done but it can happen.

Response by SFC Maitland McKenzie made Apr 4 at 2017 5:31 PM

2017-04-04T17:31:04-04:00

Yes, A Service Member is still on the rolls when that Service Member has their name removed from the Active Roll and placed on the Retired Roll. That is why the Service Member is issued an ID Card. One is still on the Rolls, it is just no longer in Active Duty Status.

Response by LTC Megan Bogley made Apr 4 at 2017 10:26 PM

2017-04-04T22:26:45-04:00

I would sure like to find the individual that raped my sister when we were kids. I would like to see some vengeance via UCMJ.

Response by MAJ John Griffin made Apr 4 at 2017 10:51 PM

2017-04-04T22:51:35-04:00

What about retirees who SCREW OVER other retirees in civil situations....
Such as one retiree getting another retiree fired by using false statements from ironically a National Guard SSG and an active duty SP4 .... and selling these false statements to the employer ...

Conduct unbecoming is till conduct unbecoming whether in a criminal sense or civil (tort) sense ( judicially speaking)

Response by SGT Jonathan Lubecky made Apr 5 at 2017 7:32 AM

2017-04-05T07:32:12-04:00

Since I did a lot of research concerning this exact issue with respect to Gen Mattis, Gen Flynn, and Gen Kelly (and other retirees in the cabinet), I found out that if you are a retiree who enters into FERS as a federal employee you forego retiree pay, and are therefore not subject to the UCMJ.

Response by 1SG Brian Adams made Apr 5 at 2017 11:24 AM

2017-04-05T11:24:57-04:00

Sure..especially if on a military installation. We have an ID card like any other active duty Soldier..we still must respect UCMJ...

Response by MSgt Ronald Denmon made Apr 5 at 2017 4:56 PM

2017-04-05T16:56:01-04:00

YES! I was an Air Force OSI Agent and conducted one investigation into a rape and murder conducted by a retired MSGT when he was active duty. It wasn't discovered until 17 years after he retired...he was brought back on AD and tried and sentenced!

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2017 6:53 PM

2017-04-05T18:53:37-04:00

Basically they'd need something court martial worthy because there is no commanding officer to NJP you and if you aren't earning pay or allowances they can't cut your pay and allowances, although the they could possibly go back and try to change the form of discharge you Recieved.

Response by PO1 Todd Cousins made Apr 5 at 2017 7:01 PM

2017-04-05T19:01:56-04:00

As long as you are a member of the fleet reserve you are fully under the UCMJ. For a retiree like me, I retired at the 20 year mark, that's ten more years. You are fleet reserve transferred until you hit the 30 year mark.

Response by CPT David Borell made Apr 5 at 2017 7:42 PM

2017-04-05T19:42:21-04:00

There's a lot of speculation and "I believes" in this thread. The simple answer is this: **Yes**. If you are retired, you remain subject to the UCMJ and charges CAN be preferred against you for violations of the UCMJ even if the actions which resulted in those charges occurred outside a geographical military jurisdiction and while in a retired status. In fact, not only can it happen, it HAS happened. The MSG at Ft. Bragg (referenced earlier by SSG Palmer) is but one example of this. Now, is the military going to place you back on active status to prefer charges because you were disrespectful to the Commander-in-Chief? Probably not. But will they tack on charges from both pre-retirement and post-retirement when the charges are serious enough to warrant it? Absolutely.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2017 9:43 PM

2017-04-05T21:43:49-04:00

They should be subject to UCMJ actions for serious crimes. No one that commits such a ts should draw any pay from the American taxpayers.

Response by SSgt Stephen Mills made Apr 6 at 2017 5:10 PM

2017-04-06T17:10:14-04:00

I saw a Ret Msgt from the USMC finally tell off a Chief Warrant Ofc about 6 months after he Ret. The CWO being the D!$@ he was had him brought up on charges. Cooler heads put a stop to it. But it does happen.

Response by SCPO Tom Cash made Apr 7 at 2017 7:04 AM

2017-04-07T07:04:36-04:00

I understood the UCMJ can be invoked for crimes during active duty. If you retire and then the crime is discovered you can be recalled and prosecuted. Crimes committed AFTER retirement are covered by local laws.

Response by CPO Earl Jones made Apr 7 at 2017 10:14 AM

2017-04-07T10:14:13-04:00

Only if you are charged and convicted of a felony.

Response by CMSgt Larry Ward made Apr 7 at 2017 10:50 AM

2017-04-07T10:50:58-04:00

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupppppppppppppp............

Response by CMSgt Larry Ward made Apr 7 at 2017 10:54 AM

2017-04-07T10:54:27-04:00

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuupppppppppp...........This happened to a Chief retired that I knew....lost his retirement pay....DWI and Death of female after a vehicle accident....

Response by CPO William Horniak made Apr 7 at 2017 2:49 PM

2017-04-07T14:49:26-04:00

Retired On Active Duty means just that. Your official retirement date is not until the 30 year mark at which time you will receive your official retirement certificate from whoever is Commander in Chief at that particular moment. If you spend 20 years active to up to 29 years and 364 days you are officially a member of the inactive reserve component until you get that piece of paper that tells you otherwise. Until that point in time you ARE a part of the military and are subject to the uniform code of military justice.

Response by SFC Timothy N. Livengood made Apr 7 at 2017 3:11 PM

2017-04-07T15:11:33-04:00

I figure when you are retired, you are retired. This doesn't mean that since you served 20 years or more you can just be tore up and a menace to society. You represent what you dedicated yourself to for 20 year or more. People do make mistakes, granted, but if you will penalized by the State or Codified ordinances that should be punishment enough. Just my opin

Response by CPO William Horniak made Apr 7 at 2017 4:28 PM

2017-04-07T16:28:47-04:00

As for being penalized by the State or Codified ordinances, that is covered only under the law enforcement acts for the state in which the crime has been committed. Codified is simply a law that has been passed the the legislative branch of the government and does not have to be adopted by any state and therefore would require a federal indictment to enforce, and no state intentionally has to adopt anything that is coded by the United States in any portion as described within the Code of Federal Regulations. The military is its open separate enforcement division and follows the UCMJ therefore the military is the only branch that can punish you as so called "double Jeopardy" and up to this point has not been changed by the supreme court, therefore failure to follow the UCMJ after your Retirement On Active Duty is still a crime in the eyes of the military.

Response by SGT Joshua Carmichael made Apr 12 at 2017 11:38 AM

2017-04-12T11:38:27-04:00

I've always thought that if you hold a military ID card that you are still subject to military regulations. But only if the infractions were done on a military installation. I've never known it to happen.

Response by SFC Fernando HernandezJr made Apr 12 at 2017 11:14 PM

2017-04-12T23:14:16-04:00

Yes

Response by Cpl Sarah Ashworth Jacobs made Apr 13 at 2017 4:25 AM

2017-04-13T04:25:11-04:00

Yes, you bet. If you are receiving any kind of benefits from the DOD or VA, you are still a part of that entity. So you are still subject to the UCMJ. In my opinion.

Response by SSG Zaida Tirado made Apr 15 at 2017 2:39 AM

2017-04-15T02:39:20-04:00

Never

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 18 at 2017 9:04 AM

2017-04-18T09:04:29-04:00

I know this is old, but will give a great answer to the question: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/army-charges-retired-general-with-raping-minor-in-1980s/ar-BBzWJLo?li=BBnb7Kz

ar-BBzWJLo

Response by MSG James Hughs made Apr 21 at 2017 9:28 AM

2017-04-21T09:28:52-04:00

Any retiree CAN.....if the government sees fit..... lose retirement pay and benefits if they commit a felony while in retirement.... I have no specific information of this having been done... but I also do not want to test the system.... worked too long too hard and sacrificed too much to risk it

Response by Lt Col Phil Henning made Apr 27 at 2017 3:03 PM

2017-04-27T15:03:39-04:00

Rare. I think one or two General officers were reduced in grade over issues that occurred on active duty not after they retired

Response by TSgt James Carson made Apr 28 at 2017 8:04 PM

2017-04-28T20:04:06-04:00

Yes you are. You will loose retirement pay and other earned benefits if the Government wants to take them from you for any offence.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Apr 30 at 2017 12:46 PM

2017-04-30T12:46:43-04:00

Actually it is happening right now. Two weeks ago there was a news announcement that a retired Army Major General was being charged with nine counts of sexual assault of a minor. The alleged offenses occurred over a decade ago, and the MG has long since retired. But, since he is receiving retirement pay, he is still subject to charges under the UCMJ. This officer had served at HQ TRADOC and was famously abusive of his subordinates, so this news item caught several eyes.

Response by CPT Tom Monahan made May 1 at 2017 3:14 AM

2017-05-01T03:14:08-04:00

There are a few retired classified info leakers who were brought back for Courts Martial. When I was retired on PDRL, I got the briefing that I was a member of the retired reserve, subject to recall, entitled to use my rank, and still was subject to the UCMJ.

Response by SFC Tony Bennett made May 2 at 2017 5:45 PM

2017-05-02T17:45:06-04:00

Yes and no, No as a retiree you are not subject to UCMJ.......HOWEVER, this has happened, if you retire the military can call you back to duty to prosecute you. This happened to MSG Henis here at Ft Bragg. Personally I thought it was on all fronts. He's now locked up at Ft Levenworth. For the record he was acquitted for the exact same crime prior to the military calling him back from retirement

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2017 11:32 AM

2017-05-07T11:32:54-04:00

Interesting article I had no idea. I think it was smart to put that in there.

Response by PO1 Dennis Herdina made May 11 at 2017 7:16 PM

2017-05-11T19:16:19-04:00

Short answer...YES. With following exceptions to rule....commit a crime on military base after you are retired or discharged...you can be recalled to active duty to stand trial at a CM IF FEDERAL PROSCUTER WANTS JURISDICTION. It all depends on what Federal authorities want to do

Response by Capt Al Parker made May 12 at 2017 9:10 PM

2017-05-12T21:10:08-04:00

It appears everybody is forgetting the retired Regular officer ID card says indefinite as is his or her commission.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2017 2:11 PM

2017-05-16T14:11:31-04:00

Yes, I remember that case. He was convicted and sentenced to death. Later acquitted. Retried by the Army this time. Convicted and re-sentenced to death again.

Response by SCPO John Millar made May 18 at 2017 4:04 PM

2017-05-18T16:04:51-04:00

If you commit a crime against the government you can be brought back face charges

Response by COL John Power made May 18 at 2017 7:17 PM

2017-05-18T19:17:39-04:00

Interesting question. I don't doubt the citation, but I haven't heard of the UCMJ being imposed on a retiree. Every case I know of has the circumstance of the retiree being recalled to active duty and them subjected. I've even seen that done with general officers. Most of the responses don't reveal all of the circumstances. Was the person charged with rape overseas in a US SOFA? Or on post? Civil offenses in the US are almost always attended to by the civil judicial system. The only time the military is the prosecuting agency is if the crime is on the installation and even then usually when it is a military violation vs. civilian. I'm sure there are exceptions, but in my experience they are rare and there are some special circumstances.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2017 7:30 PM

2017-05-25T19:30:54-04:00

They can do anything they want, any time they want.

Response by MSG Robert Greco made Jun 8 at 2017 2:16 PM

2017-06-08T14:16:43-04:00

From my understanding while I was in. If you did or found you did something wrong while on Active Duty. The Army can and will recall you back to Active Duty. My retirement DD-214 CLEARLY states "subject to recall at the convenience of the Government" So yes, UCMJ can reach out of retirement and get you for a charge you done while on Active Duty, even if retired.

Now, if retired. And if a Officer pisses one off and the retired person told him/her off. I do not believe UCMJ charges can be brought on the individual because tbe retired person is now Mr./Mrs. Smith civilian, not SGT Smith Soldier.

Response by COL John Hudson made Jun 9 at 2017 6:04 PM

2017-06-09T18:04:54-04:00

From The IG Desk: "Depends." I am personally aware of several instances over a 30 year career of SM's being recalled to active duty to answer charges under UCMJ. One of those was a Reservist called up for AD. At tour's end, an argument ensued over what he considered an illegal order which he refused to obey (in an openly belligerent and insubordinate manner) believing that his ETS and return to home station would severe him from UCMJ. He was re-called to AD on orders; tried and convicted. If a SM belongs to a Troop Program Unit (TPU), then he/she is responsible during training weekends to UCMJ, as well as during annual two-week AD.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2017 10:46 AM

2017-06-12T10:46:01-04:00

What about insubordination due to comments made about the US government or military officials?

Response by SSG Zaida Tirado made Jun 15 at 2017 4:33 PM

2017-06-15T16:33:17-04:00

Wouldn't it depend on how you are retired I was physically retired disable so they can't call me back

Response by SFC Freddie Porter made Jun 16 at 2017 2:23 PM

2017-06-16T14:23:35-04:00

The bottom line up front is Yes, a retired active service member can be court martialed. That said, the crime is usually one that relates directly to the military in some capacity such working as a contractor in a war zone and committing the crime of murder against someone. The retirees crime can reasonably be associated with military service. Otherwise, JAG already has a lot on their plate

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Jun 23 at 2017 7:12 AM

2017-06-23T07:12:42-04:00

It is true. Remember, it's called "retainer" pay, not retired pay. In my experience, it is very rare.

Response by CPT Ian Stewart made Jun 30 at 2017 1:20 PM

2017-06-30T13:20:17-04:00

I'd like to ask a question of the group: If retirees are subject to the UCMJ and it seems we are, may retirees still give orders? For example, may I as a retired officer, order a junior ranking service member to do something?

Response by MAJ Eric Greek made Jul 8 at 2017 7:08 PM

2017-07-08T19:08:46-04:00

The answer, in most cases, is no. There is no need, for example, for the military to pull you back on active duty for rape ... because that is a criminal offense in the Civilian World. You will be tried as a Civilian. If your crime was committed while you were on active duty however (i.e. before you retired), you will be pulled back onto active duty and tried. There are all kinds of complications that arise if the military attempts to pull you back onto active duty, from jurisdiction to evidence - imagine being pulled back to Fort Bragg for a crime that happened in Montana? It is the same reason that you will be pulled back onto active duty if that is where and when the crime happened. How would the Montana police gather evidence of what you did at Fort Bragg? It just wouldn't make sense in either case. The exception to this would be rules governing violations of your security clearance. The military can, and will, pull you back to hold you accountable for that.

Response by MSgt Bruce Hutchinson made Jul 13 at 2017 1:41 PM

2017-07-13T13:41:26-04:00

I'd say under very limited circumstances, but yes

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 17 at 2017 8:21 PM

2017-07-17T20:21:01-04:00

I was in charge of the detail to monitor and babysit the media.

Response by Patrick J Salem made Jul 18 at 2017 9:42 AM

2017-07-18T09:42:42-04:00

Not just retirees. As I understand it, anyone who signed a contract (reserve, active, enlisted, or officer) can be recalled to duty if the government wants to prosecute under UCMJ, including those with OTH discharges.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 22 at 2017 6:40 AM

2017-07-22T06:40:42-04:00

It has alo occured when crimes committed durring active service come to light. There have been cases of soldiers broughy bavk on active duty for sexual assault as well as misconduct.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made Aug 3 at 2017 3:41 PM

2017-08-03T15:41:53-04:00

Great amount of info here without a dead on answer. Exactly what I'd expect to hear in a barracks. What is sad is the number of comments offering sympathy for the lawbreakers and especially the overwraught concern about 'double jeopardy'. The bottom line is 'was justice done'? If the person's lawyers can't make a case for double jeopardy I doubt a three sentence explanation on RP makes it either.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2017 9:17 PM

2017-08-07T21:17:08-04:00

Short answer, yes. When I was the Mobilization Officer at Fort Jackson a few years ago, we had to transition a SSG out of the IRR after his case was overturned. The SJA wanted to retry the case, which required the SSG to return to active duty.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2017 2:38 PM

2017-08-10T14:38:52-04:00

I assume so. I have been retired now for the past 23 years and only once I had read about an incident in Puerto Rico. I believe it had something to do with the bombng range that the military was using against the wishes of their government. He decided to return all his personal awards and I think his retired military pay too. But don't quote me on this because the article has been so long ago.

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Aug 13 at 2017 11:04 AM

2017-08-13T11:04:48-04:00

Retirees took an oath which doesn't expire with retirement.

Response by Col Jonathan Brazee made Sep 5 at 2017 5:29 PM

2017-09-05T17:29:22-04:00

Long after I retired, a gunny came up to me and asked me why I was wearing my Marpat trou. I told him because I could. He first told me that what I was doing was stolen honor. I was going to blow him off, but I decided to show him my ID, and then he said I could get recalled and court martialed for wearing the trou. At that point, I tuned him out despite his continual insistence that I go change out of them.

Response by Col Jonathan Brazee made Sep 5 at 2017 5:31 PM

2017-09-05T17:31:16-04:00

Response by Lt Col Archie Smith made Sep 11 at 2017 12:32 PM

2017-09-11T12:32:55-04:00

As they should be!

Response by CDR Kevin Hale made Sep 21 at 2017 1:31 PM

2017-09-21T13:31:03-04:00

Back in The 80's I knew of a Senior Chief Ship's Serviceman brought back onto active duty after retiring because an audit revealed theft from the ship's store that the SHCS had been a part of.

Response by PO1 Don Mac Intyre made Sep 22 at 2017 10:01 AM

2017-09-22T10:01:39-04:00

My oath was never recinded. So yes, as long as I receive my government subsidy every first of the month, I am bound by the UCMJ

Response by Lt Col David Nadeau made Sep 24 at 2017 9:25 PM

2017-09-24T21:25:32-04:00

Has happened on several occasions. The MCM is very clear.

Response by PO1 Mavis Black made Sep 27 at 2017 4:22 PM

2017-09-27T16:22:54-04:00

This artical has kept me anchored...lol

Response by AA Vernon Price made Sep 29 at 2017 7:00 PM

2017-09-29T19:00:14-04:00

I have been medically retired from the NAVY for 40+ years and I am still subject to UCMJ?

Response by SFC Ronald Campbell made Sep 30 at 2017 12:08 PM

2017-09-30T12:08:54-04:00

I think this would be the case only with a serious offense on a military base or involving other military personnel.

Response by MSG Mark Brzezinski made Oct 10 at 2017 4:22 PM

2017-10-10T16:22:46-04:00

Yes they can for crimes committed while on active duty.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-rare-spectacle-army-court-martials-a-retired-general/2017/08/25/473fc440-89ac-11e7-a50f-e0d4e6ec070a_story.html?utm_term=.bb356b509580

473fc440-89ac-11e7-a50f-e0d4e6ec070a_story.html

Response by Capt Joseph Olson made Oct 10 at 2017 8:20 PM

2017-10-10T20:20:59-04:00

IIRC.

1. Does not apply to retired Reservists.

2. The offense still needs the "military connection" that confers jurisdiction.

3. Even if #2 applies, if there is a civilian court with jurisdiction, the policy is to defer.

4. As a policy matter, the offense must be a major "felony".

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Oct 19 at 2017 3:05 PM

2017-10-19T15:05:30-04:00

LTC Yinon Weiss A relevant and current response and confirmation of YES to the question "Are retirees subject to UCMJ?"

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/10/18/retired-army-two-star-charged-with-raping-a-minor-to-face-court-martial/

Retired Army two-star, charged with raping a minor, to face court-martial

A retired Army major general will go to court-martial on charges that he allegedly raped a minor on multiple occasions over a period of at least six years.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Oct 29 at 2017 9:34 AM

2017-10-29T09:34:41-04:00

If the crime happened while on active duty, but person did not get caught until after he/she retired, then yes I believe so. Also, since 2007 (I believe) any Govt civilian, contractor is subject to UCMJ on any military bases, especially deployed in a combat zone. With that said, if the crime happened not on a military base, the answer is no they cannot pull you back into active duty to receive UCMJ, but that is my IMHO.

Response by CPO Jeffrey Bohemier made Nov 3 at 2017 12:05 AM

2017-11-03T00:05:37-04:00

No, they are not. However, for the first 10 years after your retirement date, you can be as you’re still part of the inactive reserves. After that you’re officially retired. It doesn’t matter at that point what the UCMJ states, as you’re no longer subject to it. Your military contract with the government is then expired. Your retirement pay is no longer a retainer and your no longer subject to being recalled. Your retirement pay is just that...retirement pay for service rendered to the United States government. About the only incident that would probably be an exception is if you had committed a murder while subject to the UCMJ. That’s because there’s no statute of limitations on murder.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Nov 12 at 2017 3:30 AM

2017-11-12T03:30:28-05:00

My understanding about this subject is, if a retiree is found to be using marijuna by a blood test in a military hospital. That retired member can be subject to UCMJ punishment. Even if the marijuna is medically required.

Response by GySgt Stephen Hogarth made Nov 14 at 2017 2:44 PM

2017-11-14T14:44:57-05:00

Contractors (and retirees) working with the DoD Overseas are also subject to the UCMJ. But you'd be hard pressed to prefer charges against a retiree stateside for being late to work (UA) - even if they are working with a DoD component.

Response by PVT Raymond Lopez made Nov 15 at 2017 8:33 PM

2017-11-15T20:33:07-05:00

I don't want to be mean about this but my wife was employed at Fort Belovir by a now retired distinguished to provide adult supervison (baby sitting service) for someone so how would not have this problem!

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Nov 15 at 2017 8:42 PM

2017-11-15T20:42:30-05:00

Short answer: Yes.
Long Answer: The answer to that question is yes, indeed they are.

Here is the applicability portion of the UCMJ, retirees are clearly listed in 4 and 5:

(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:

(1) Members of a regular component of the armed forces, including those awaiting discharge after expiration of their terms of enlistment; volunteers from the time of their muster or acceptance into the armed forces; inductees from the time of their actual induction into the armed forces; and other persons lawfully called or ordered into, or to duty in or for training in the armed forces, from the dates when they are required by the terms of the call or order to obey it.

(2) Cadets, aviation cadets, and midshipman.

(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal Service.

(4) Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.

(5) Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force.

(6) Members of the Fleet Reserve and Fleet Marine Corps Reserve.

(7) Persons in custody of the armed forces serving a sentence imposed by a court-martial.

(8) Members of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Public Health Service, and other organizations, when assigned to and serving with the armed forces.

(9) Prisoners of war in custody of the armed forces.

(10) In time of war, persons serving with or accompanying an armed force in the field.

(11) Subject to any treaty or agreement which the United States is or may be a party to any accepted rule of international law, persons serving with, employed by, or accompanying the armed forces outside the United States and outside the Canal Zone, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.

(12) Subject to any treaty or agreement t which the United States is or may be a party to any accepted rule of international law, persons within an area leased by or otherwise reserved or acquired for use of the United States which is under the control of the Secretary concerned and which is outside the United States and outside the Canal Zone, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands.

Response by Pvt J B made Nov 19 at 2017 6:35 PM

2017-11-19T18:35:44-05:00

Funny you bring this up,,, just read about this last week in mil times

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2017/10/18/retired-army-two-star-charged-with-raping-a-minor-to-face-court-martial/

Retired Army two-star, charged with raping a minor, to face court-martial

A retired Army major general will go to court-martial on charges that he allegedly raped a minor on multiple occasions over a period of at least six years.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2017 10:19 PM

2017-11-20T22:19:39-05:00

Certainly. When I was the mobilization officer at Fort Jackson, we had a SSG who was in the IRR called back to AD when his courtmartial was overturned. The plan was to bring him back and retry the case. Because he was now classified as a reservist, my office handled the transition back to AD.

Response by GySgt H.E. (Trey) Salmon III made Nov 25 at 2017 9:41 AM

2017-11-25T09:41:57-05:00

I agree they’re subject to UCMJ, but I am positive that the charge is also subject to the Statue of Limitations. To clarify to the Marines that take the time to read this, when you “retire” between 20 & 29 years, you are actually “Transferrered” to the Fleet Marine Corps Reserve (FMCR) until 30 years has been completed. During that time, you are subject to recall. At the 30 year mark, you are then “Officially Retired“.

Response by SFC James Pritchert made Nov 26 at 2017 7:28 PM

2017-11-26T19:28:17-05:00

Timothy Hennis was recalled to active duty two years after his retirement and tried for a third time for the murder of Kathryn Eastburn and her two daughters. He is currently on death row. I lived in Fayetteville at the time of this crime and I had been in the murder house years earlier when it was owned by my company commander.

Response by SGT Rudy Gibson made Dec 20 at 2017 4:03 PM

2017-12-20T16:03:20-05:00

I found this, "To the extent the law has some clarity in the retiree arena, it is clear
that retired personnel are not civilians but are instead members of the
armed forces. They enjoy certain associated privileges and bear numerous
responsibilities. Most significantly, as retirees they remain subject to the
Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) with few, if any, legal limitations,
and only ambiguous and largely unenforceable policy limitations on
the exercise of military jurisdiction over them. However, beyond purely
jurisdictional issues, military case law concerning the rights and responsibilities
of retired military personnel is sparse."

Response by PO3 David Greeley made Dec 30 at 2017 4:18 PM

2017-12-30T16:18:48-05:00

MAJ Weiss, Is the enforcement of Article 2 of the UCMJ limited to crimes committed during the member's active service or into retirement?

Response by Capt Joseph Olson made Jan 1 at 2018 12:14 AM

2018-01-01T00:14:37-05:00

In the 1950's the Navy recalled a retired admiral who had been USING his rank to seduce young male sailors in San Diego bars after his retirement.

Response by CH (COL) Mitchell Ackerson made Jan 9 at 2018 4:33 PM

2018-01-09T16:33:44-05:00

you can be recalled for things that happened while you were on duty even if years later and you are retired. If I rob a bank tomorrow the military would have no authority to try me even being a retiree

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 11 at 2018 5:41 PM

2018-04-11T17:41:08-04:00

There have been a few who were recalled back to active duty for the sole purpose of under going UCMJ actions.

Response by SFC Robert Alsup made Apr 25 at 2018 8:18 AM

2018-04-25T08:18:24-04:00

There was an NCO who received an Article 15 WHILE ON ACTIVE DUTY for knowing about a Soldier falsifying a senior rater rating on his NCOER. 3 years after NCO retired, he tried to help that Soldier out who was still on Active Duty. He submitted a letter to Soldier's COL explaining the truth about what happened and that he TOLD the Soldier to change the rating. The COL said this is new evidence and has removed the Article 15 from the Soldier's file and is bringing the retired NCO back on Active Duty to rescind their Article 15 and proceed with a Court Martial. Can this even happen??? When he told me this, i though a COL CAN NOT bring a retired Soldier back on Active Duty. That must be done by someone WAY higher than a COL.

Response by Maj Mike Sciales made May 30 at 2018 12:54 PM

2018-05-30T12:54:05-04:00

Great question. In 1991 a retired Army MSG Sands, helped by his houseboy, murdered the Mrs, chopped her up and prepared to dispose of the body. The murder came to light. Sands was the manager of the USMTM dining facility in Riyadh. The Saudis took no interest since no Saudis involved. The Army tried to bring him back on active & charge under the UCMJ, but that rational was rejected b/c he wasn’t on active at the time. This rule only applies to general officers (who never retire, just go off active) and some members of the Fleet reserves. Bottom line: There is new (2007) Federal law that permits US jurisdiction on crimes committed by forces accompanying the military. The law was the result of Blackwater guys murdering several Iraqis and lying about it.

Response by CW5 Ranger Dave made Jul 1 at 2018 10:37 PM

2018-07-01T22:37:43-04:00

Saw MG Cochran retired and former CG of the 24th ID recalled and court martialed for misappropriation of government funds for stocking his personal yacht with US Property and work on the government dime.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 1 at 2018 11:49 PM

2018-07-01T23:49:29-04:00

YES, and YES. Several times, retirees/discharged folks- have had crimes come to light, years later, and have been recalled to active duty to face the charges. If convicted they can go to prison or be reduced/lose their retirement.

Response by LTC Curtis Madsen made Aug 10 at 2018 2:04 PM

2018-08-10T14:04:47-04:00

From what I've read in recent articles, retirement is just a change in status and not truly retired from military service. You can still be called back to active duty should need arise i.e. war or crises, but most definitely in cases of UCMJ. I had to read up to get clarification on this, so if you're drawing retired pay the government still owns a piece of you.

Response by CPO David Marlowe made Jan 11 at 2019 7:43 PM

2019-01-11T19:43:04-05:00

My understanding at the 30 year mark and you are classified retired and no longer in the fleet reserve and you are convicted of a felony you will lose your military benefits and your retired pay.

Response by Maj John Johnston made Jan 14 at 2019 1:49 PM

2019-01-14T13:49:46-05:00

If you committed crimes while on active duty, retired and we're then " found out" you certainly could be brought back on active duty. The Army general committed rape while on active duty as a major.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2019 12:03 AM

2019-01-22T00:03:44-05:00

Even civilians are subject for some crimes committed against the Government. I think there may be Military Tribunals going on now in Gitmo.

Response by SSG Michael Davis made Jan 24 at 2019 9:53 PM

2019-01-24T21:53:58-05:00

Correct. Crimes committed while on active time never leave you. As it should be.

Response by CW3 Chuck Huddleston made Feb 4 at 2019 9:34 AM

2019-02-04T09:34:09-05:00

Yep, we are. However, being recalled to duty or being subjected to any UCMJ violation is pretty darned slim.

Response by Daniel McEleney made Feb 7 at 2019 11:38 AM

2019-02-07T11:38:13-05:00

There was a General officer in the 60's who had charges pending, Resigned without taking his pension and could not be charged. 20years latter put in for his pension, recalled as a WO so that he could resign

Response by SFC Roger Senatore made Feb 7 at 2019 5:36 PM

2019-02-07T17:36:52-05:00

So it seems to me that retirees are not covered by the UCMJ, otherwise a retired NCO or Officer would also carry the lawful power afforded active duty officers and NCOs. It stands to reason that before a retiree can be charged or protected under UCMJ, they must first be recalled to active service, the of course the UCMJ applies.

Response by CDR Michael Goldschmidt made Feb 9 at 2019 6:01 PM

2019-02-09T18:01:34-05:00

Kudos for the question. Thank you, Colonel Weiss. I think many other members covered the answer, but the bottom line for retired reserve members s that they can be recalled for crimes committed while in a duty status even if they are no longer in such, but are not subject to the UCMJ at other times. If I'm not mistaken, however, there are exceptions. I believe retired members embarked in military vessels or aircraft are subject to the UCMJ, while exercising their retirement privileges.

Response by 1SG Chad Mcdaniel made Feb 10 at 2019 4:27 PM

2019-02-10T16:27:12-05:00

LTC Yinon W.

Yes the way I understand it. This would include medical retirees, but has it ever happened I can only say I've never heard it happening except the one case mentioned earlier about Tim Hennis. The family that the accused SGT Hennis murdered and raped were Airforce dependents so technically that was military related. Bottom line if a crime by a military member is committed off a military installation even while active it's hard to pull that case under military authority (DUI, Domestic, Assault, prostitution, solicitation, distribution of drugs, possession, rape and even murder cases) I've seen all this in my time and if the state has the jurisdiction they tend to prosecute.

Response by PO3 Kevin DeLong made Feb 19 at 2019 4:22 AM

2019-02-19T04:22:21-05:00

Only in extreme violations of the law that happened while they were still active duty. Rape, Murder, Arson of government property. Sabotage of government property.

Response by CPO Stuart Gupton made Feb 20 at 2019 6:05 PM

2019-02-20T18:05:56-05:00

I will say that in 1989, I was attached to NMPC 843, Deserter Apprehension Program. I tracked a deserter to Millington, TN. His step father was a retired USMC senior enlisted. His mother stated her son would not be returning to military control. I reminded the Marine he was still subject to the UCMJ and was playing with his retirement if he hid his step-son. Next day, the deserter was pushed out of a car at the main gate pf Millington Naval Air Station looking like someone got his attention. Would I have pushed charges against the Marine, I like to think NO but the threat was a tool I used.

Response by SSgt Ed Hamlin made Feb 21 at 2019 12:03 PM

2019-02-21T12:03:03-05:00

Many comments are focusing on the double punishment. What is being missed is that as a retiree if convicted under the UCMJ or civilian courts you lose the benefits afforded a retiree. If you have a dependants (children and spouse) they too are now impacted by the conviction and loss of benefits.

I have always viewed being subject to the UCMJ as a retiree as another level of accountability.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2019 10:25 AM

2019-02-22T10:25:41-05:00

So where is the line drawn in the sand. How severe does it have to be to punish someone under the UCMJ who is retired?

Response by SGT Daniel Myers made Feb 22 at 2019 3:31 PM

2019-02-22T15:31:44-05:00

Do ask, don't tell, don't talk about shit to know one.....

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 22 at 2019 7:14 PM

2019-02-22T19:14:54-05:00

I think this provision applies to crimes committed while on active duty. The case referenced below was MSG Timothy Hennis. He was accused of crimes committed while on active duty. He was acquitted in state court after an initial mistrial. When new evidence became available, he was brought out of retirement and sent to court martial. There was no double jeopardy because of the state court and federal court. Hennis was convicted of the murders.

Response by SSG Bobby Castle made Feb 23 at 2019 1:20 AM

2019-02-23T01:20:00-05:00

If the crime was committed while on active duty you can be brought out of retirement to be prosecuted under UCMJ. Other than that you fall under the Civilian courts because you are no longer a soldier and do not fall under the UCMJ.

Response by SGT Mark Rhodes made Feb 24 at 2019 11:42 AM

2019-02-24T11:42:40-05:00

The only way this could happen is if an incident was under an investigation prior to the soldiers retirement. Then if he/she were found guilty they would be ordered back onto active duty and if that happens they are no longer retired they are considered AD again. So it can happen but I had never seen it.

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Feb 24 at 2019 6:30 PM

2019-02-24T18:30:14-05:00

We better behave ourselves!

Response by 1SG Leon Espe made Feb 25 at 2019 10:38 AM

2019-02-25T10:38:25-05:00

I always understood that a retiree can be court martialed for crimes against our country (Treason for one or anything that would warrant a Dishonorable Discharge) but civilian courts would handle all else.

Response by MAJ Montgomery Granger made Feb 25 at 2019 1:02 PM

2019-02-25T13:02:49-05:00

And what about gray area retirees? We're not yet receiving pay.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2019 6:46 PM

2019-02-25T18:46:25-05:00

They can be and there is provision for it and they being recalled to active duty for the purpose of being prosecuted in a federal court. It does not happen very often but it has been done surrounding several different cases. One involved the theft of military property a few years ago I know and that individual lost their pension and was sentenced to Ft L/Worth along with suffering a reduction in rank.

Response by SPC Ronald Scott made Apr 8 at 2019 1:49 PM

2019-04-08T13:49:04-04:00

Question
After one retires from military or civilian life. They have completed their commitment and fulfilled their duties as agreed. There shouldn't be any connection to that organization there after unless serving as a board member in the civilian capacity or consulting for the military. This is a terrible future implications and has a government ownership of human beings. This is not good.. after you retire the only relationship between you and the government should be your benefits. PERIOD

Response by PO2 Wayne Durham made Apr 15 at 2019 6:26 PM

2019-04-15T18:26:20-04:00

Only for an infraction while you were in. Otherwise you answer to civilian authorities.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2019 11:24 PM

2019-04-16T23:24:53-04:00

Derp
You answered your own questions
Yes yes yes

Response by Pvt Chris Anderson made May 4 at 2019 8:03 AM

2019-05-04T08:03:23-04:00

Sir, with respect. Anyone having been accused of a crime while on active orders or in IRR is subject to Art.2. I know, i was accused of a crime someone else committed. The DA, after i mentioned I was in the Marine Corps at the time they said the offense was committed and asked for my article 32. The dropped the case and picked it back again with the time frame of being out of the Military. While the victim was in another state at the time. Being that I live in California, you get the picture.. Needless to say, it doesn't matter if you're an officer or enlisted. You are still subject to article 2 recall for major crimes.

Response by Maj Maria Avellaneda made May 14 at 2019 1:48 AM

2019-05-14T01:48:32-04:00

Retired personnel can be brought back to active duty to answer to conduct that happened in active duty. But conduct that happens after full retirement ( if you are on final leave, you are subject to UCMJ) is not. Just like Pay and benefits your responsibility goes away! You are another civilian!

Response by GySgt Thomas Jeffers made Jun 3 at 2019 7:04 PM

2019-06-03T19:04:16-04:00

Ha! Totally non-pulsed about this. Retired in 2003 and would have to really "break bad" to ever be subjected to the UCMJ! Semper Fi.

Response by GySgt Thomas Jeffers made Jun 3 at 2019 7:05 PM

2019-06-03T19:05:55-04:00

Totally non-pulsed. If you messed up so much that the military takes notice, embrace the suck! Gunny J. OUT!

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Jun 4 at 2019 7:49 PM

2019-06-04T19:49:27-04:00

A retiree is basically defined as one that has put in at least 20 and in receipt of a Govt retirement check. However, that “retirement” check is not retirement. It’s a “retainer” check. Simply put, once you retire, the Govt retains the right to ownership. That’s you. FOR LIFE.

Response by CAPT Patrick Mulcahy made Jun 5 at 2019 11:37 AM

2019-06-05T11:37:03-04:00

I have never heard of, nor do I believe, that you can be charged with a UCMJ offense as a civilian retiree except for offenses committed while on active duty (in which case they reactivate you and then charge you.) If that were true, why does the person need to be reactivated - why not charge them as a civilian? I see the words but have trouble believing it.

Response by MSgt Darren VanDerwilt made Jun 5 at 2019 7:50 PM

2019-06-05T19:50:34-04:00

If a military person committed a crime, such as murder, while within military jurisdiction (see below), but the crime wasn't discovered (or evidence available) until after that person retired, then I can see it happening. There's a couple Constitutional caveats that would determine if it's tried under UCMJ or not.
Did the crime, punishable under UCMJ, take place where U.S. courts do not have jurisdiction, during an overseas military operation, and on a military installation? Pay particular attention to "when in actual service in time of war or public danger," within the 5th Amendment, and "public trial by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed," part of the 6th Amendment.
It seems portions of Article 2, UCMJ, are in direct violation of the U.S. Constitution. Someone may need to check their hubris.

Response by PO1 Tom Follis made Jun 5 at 2019 9:36 PM

2019-06-05T21:36:15-04:00

A “retirement” check is, in reality, a “retainer” check giving the govt the right to re-call anytime. However, I don’t think this would happen except in extremely rare cases.

Response by MSgt Andrea Gutierrez made Jun 6 at 2019 12:44 AM

2019-06-06T00:44:22-04:00

Only if the crime was committed while suspected was in the military, crime committed on military property and statue of limitations is not up.

Response by SGT Michael Hanks made Jun 6 at 2019 12:25 PM

2019-06-06T12:25:24-04:00

I remember a case in Germany where a retired Sergeant Major worked at Toyota car dealership and was helping his customers defraud the US government. He was given non juridical punishment/ article 15, reduction in pay.

Response by CWO2 Russell Hoover made Jun 9 at 2019 5:56 PM

2019-06-09T17:56:49-04:00

Please remind everyone it is not retirement pay it is retainer pay and by excepting it you can be recalled.

Response by HA Jace Gallagher made Jun 10 at 2019 12:58 AM

2019-06-10T00:58:28-04:00

Talked to a JAG Lawyer. There are 3 circumstances where Retirees (and even non-retired vets) can face UCMJ:
1. For any crime committed in service where the final disposition was never made, even if the service member left the service 100 years ago. This is for both veterans AND retirees and for both misdemeanors and felonies.
2. If a service is receiving pay FROM THE BRANCH OF SERVICE and commits a felony. This does not extend to VA paid disability. Does not apply to misdemeanour. For example, if a disabled vet/retiree chooses Army/Navy/whatever compensation in a lump sum instead of VA percentage, then they can be tried under UCMJ. The VA has their own policies for handling vets who commit felonies and those policies are backed by federal law, not UCMJ.
3. The obvious one, desertion. I faced this one because I was admin separated from the Navy with an Honorable Discharge but RE4 reenlistment code due to Captain's Mast. A year later I was arrested by local law enforcement and turned over to NCIS. It was just a mixup of paperwork and got sorted out just fine, but it prompted me to get a lawyer. What prompted it was I had orders to FMTB but they never got the memo of my separation and put out a warrant for my arrest lol.

Side Note: While Article 2 does not mention nonretired vets, it has been confirmed to apply to them. However compensation is so rare for nonretired vets. The GI Bill is a VA Benefit, not a military one. The military has no control over the GI Bill except for what discharge they give, which affects eligibility. So a vet who only receives GI Bill and VA Home Loan do not fall under article 2.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2019 11:06 AM

2019-06-10T11:06:58-04:00

...of a regular component. Does that include members retired from a Reserve Component?

Response by CPO Robert Turner made Jun 11 at 2019 8:48 AM

2019-06-11T08:48:04-04:00

At the time of my retirement I received a set of "Retirement Orders" from the Navy. I am retired but still under a set of actual orders. I will always be "in the Navy" even though I am not active in the everyday duty schedule. The best part of being under retirement orders is that the Navy still pays me monthly even though I do not make Muster.

Response by SA Ronald Moss made Jun 13 at 2019 7:12 PM

2019-06-13T19:12:35-04:00

Personally, I have no problem with being under the UCMJ for life even though I'm retired, as I had no problem being under it while on active duty. I signed up in the USCG and never claimed to say I now consider myself no longer my oath when I enlisted. I am a Coastie for life, and If I am guilty of something covered by the UCMJ, I should be punished for it.

Response by SGT John Peacock made Jun 18 at 2019 9:38 AM

2019-06-18T09:38:59-04:00

In my experience with military legal, typically the only time the military will "reach out" & grab a retiree is when a serious violation of the UCMJ is discovered to have taken place during the time that the retiree was on active duty, and that the retiree meets all the criteria for indictment under an Article 32 investigation. A 15-6 investigation can be used as an initiating circumstance/triggering event, to warrant an Article 32 investigation. Most other crimes are typically handled by appropriate city, state or federal authority depending on the nature of said crime and that it was not committed while the retiree was on active duty. The 1 exception is if the nature of the crime is something so serious so as to bring discredit upon the service as a whole. Such a crime would likely be pursued by all levels including active component service branch, such as rape committed by Marines on Okinawa which caused the locals to push for the Marine base to be removed from the island.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 27 at 2019 6:01 PM

2019-06-27T18:01:04-04:00

I really don't like the fact the military has jurisdiction after the military service.

Response by SSG Paul Passineau made Jul 4 at 2019 9:47 AM

2019-07-04T09:47:17-04:00

On 22FEB2019, The United States Supreme upheld The Department of Defense's authority to allowed
retired military service members to be Court Martial. The U.S.S.C. denied a retired Marine SSG to petition the court for criminal activity conducted after the individual was retired. Case was Larrabee v. United States.

Response by SSG Omar Ruiz-Canales made Jul 5 at 2019 6:06 AM

2019-07-05T06:06:11-04:00

I believe that it has to do with events that happened while on active duty.. don't see how anything else would affect an interruption in retirement

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Jul 5 at 2019 1:44 PM

2019-07-05T13:44:24-04:00

Unfortunetly, this is a fact. We retirees are still subject to punishment under the UCMJ. If you want to know which articles still apply to retire persons,contàct the cĺòsess base JAG office.

Response by LtCol Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2019 10:29 AM

2019-07-06T10:29:29-04:00

Yes. Often only exercised in cases where offenses occurred while on active duty or where civil authorities can’t reach the misconduct because of some jurisdictional defect, statute of limitations, etc. This authority is used VERY rarely and requires Secretarial approval.

Response by SFC Joseph Behmke made Jul 7 at 2019 2:47 AM

2019-07-07T02:47:15-04:00

Yes!

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Jul 11 at 2019 11:23 AM

2019-07-11T11:23:49-04:00

Retirees are indeed subject to the UCMJ! Flynn is included IN THIS!!

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Jul 12 at 2019 7:25 AM

2019-07-12T07:25:50-04:00

Retiree's are representatives of the Military and the US. Should always behave in accordance. That's how I roll

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Jul 13 at 2019 9:41 AM

2019-07-13T09:41:33-04:00

Those of us who are receiving retirement pay understand that it is not actually retirement, but a retainer for future service, should that be necessary. As for the rest, I'm not a lawyer so I won't argue the main point in your question. It's an interesting discussion though.

Response by SFC Clifton King made Jul 15 at 2019 2:21 PM

2019-07-15T14:21:03-04:00

He was Trialled in civilian court twice and the charges and acquitted. The reason he was brought back on active duty and charged was the charges against him was committed on active duty and he retired. If he hadn't retired he couldn't have been court martialed. Sad story all the way around.

Response by MSgt Eric Roseberry made Aug 4 at 2019 12:55 PM

2019-08-04T12:55:20-04:00

Yes subject to UCMJ, loss of pay and benefits isnt a huge surprise when a crime comes to public attention. Most frequently retired general officers caused political embarrassment

Response by LT Ed Skiba made Aug 4 at 2019 1:29 PM

2019-08-04T13:29:41-04:00

Good I do. Thanks.

Response by A1C Karyl Parks made Aug 6 at 2019 10:49 AM

2019-08-06T10:49:10-04:00

I do not believe the military should have control of people once their service is up.

Response by PO1 Geno Jahrling made Aug 6 at 2019 11:50 AM

2019-08-06T11:50:00-04:00

Very interesting. Personally I had always believed after the 30-year mark we were off the hook altogether. I do also recall reading something when I retired, that stuck in my mind, if incarcerated, military pension and VA benefits can be reduced or frozen while incarcerated, with no back pay once released. I dont recall the exact wording, I just figured if I continue to keep my nose clean, I wont have to worry too much about it. I just hope they dont show up to my door to do a BMI, I am screwed then.

Response by CWO2 David Bertoldo made Aug 8 at 2019 9:59 AM

2019-08-08T09:59:30-04:00

I'm not sure they can But after 30 years from retirement it would take an act of congress to bring you back I think

Response by COL Ralph Bryan Hanes made Aug 9 at 2019 10:36 AM

2019-08-09T10:36:07-04:00

Short answer is yes. Then it gets complicated. COL Williams separately covers it nicely. I would add, that this mechanism facilitates the recall to active duty should one not wish to accept for unacceptable reasons. It also gives the military a hook to grab someone who was chargeable for such things as bribery, felonies related to treatment of subordinates or national security breaches. Generally, federal courts would be the preferred venue, but the military’s ability to grab and prosecute what appears to be a malefactor that is not otherwise held accountable is in my mind a good thing. The down side is that some may feel that their 1st amendment rights could be curtailed. I am not aware of this happening, but that does not exclude anything. Great question.

Response by PO1 Louis Green made Aug 9 at 2019 4:59 PM

2019-08-09T16:59:08-04:00

No, not after you have completed 30 years and receive the 30 letter.

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made Sep 2 at 2019 12:01 AM

2019-09-02T00:01:15-04:00

I a case like this if it is something that happened under military jurisdiction you can be brought out of retirement or back to active duty to face charges. If it happened off base in civilian jurisdiction most likely the military will allow the civilian courts to handle it. That said if the victim(s) were military or dependents then the military may seek jurisdiction.

Response by PO1 Richard Norton made Sep 2 at 2019 12:03 AM

2019-09-02T00:03:28-04:00

If a retiree commits a crime under military jurisdiction they can be brought back to active service to face charges.

Response by MSgt George Fillgrove made Sep 7 at 2019 10:39 AM

2019-09-07T10:39:34-04:00

I still have military status because my retirement orders say my enlistment was extended indefinitely. So, in my case at least, I assume I am still covered under the UCMJ's Article 2. This, even though, I thought I read recently about a Navy EM that a court upheld he wasn't subject to it.

Personally, I would just rather conduct myself in civilian life that I'm still in the UCMJ's shadow, regardless. You know, that's one of the reasons why there are veteran's courts coming into more frequent use when dealing with veterans. We as military members, current and former, are/were held to a different standard while in uniform or on active service. We also understand the sacrifice that is behind our nation's laws and constitution.

So why not just continue to live by that standard of discipline and respect.

Response by SGT Martha Cain made Sep 9 at 2019 9:56 AM

2019-09-09T09:56:52-04:00

Once a US soldier, sailor, marine, air force or coast guard we are morally obligated to maintain values typified by our respective service. The oath we took at entrance is carried forward at ETS. UCMJ is just the tip of the spear~made ready, in reserve... to make sure we need not~fall on it. UCMJ is ever there to inforce that sacred oath~as wire in the blood~by conscription or volunteer.

Response by GySgt Keith Rininger made Sep 9 at 2019 3:47 PM

2019-09-09T15:47:59-04:00

Retired Members CAN be charged and tried for certain violations, per the U.S. Supreme Court.
Like any charge, there are statute of limitations except for capital crimes. You can also be tried in a Military court for something you do as a civilian once retired as you still take retired pay and that make you affiliated with the Military. That being said, the chance are slim for minor crimes.

Response by SrA Robert Brouillet made Sep 9 at 2019 4:43 PM

2019-09-09T16:43:26-04:00

You can still get recalled to Active Duty in emergencies so it makes sense.

Response by William Smith made Sep 9 at 2019 7:12 PM

2019-09-09T19:12:38-04:00

I would think not likely if it occurred after retirement and especially after your ready reserve committment. There are also a lot of articles that by their nature are active duty. I cant be ordered to do something or be held to something like missed movement right? A military lawyer once told me everything is "testable" in court so its hard to give a definite on a lot of things. But I think we are talking about serious crimes that would go straight to court martial that violate civil law as well as the ucmj. So i would think you are probably talking crimes rather than violations--but im no lawyer ha ha :)

Response by PO1 Todd B. made Sep 9 at 2019 8:05 PM

2019-09-09T20:05:13-04:00

This also includes disabled Retired Veterans from what I was told as well..

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Sep 9 at 2019 10:46 PM

2019-09-09T22:46:31-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner…A very interesting question. Unfortunately I don’t think enough information is to determine if the crime could be adjudicated in a Military Courts Marshall of a Civilian Court. Two critical pieces of information are missing first when did the crime take place, before or after leaving the military and did it happen on Federal Government property.

Response by SPC Nancy Greene made Sep 10 at 2019 12:57 AM

2019-09-10T00:57:26-04:00

Very good question!

Response by SFC Thomas Maia made Sep 11 at 2019 5:35 PM

2019-09-11T17:35:03-04:00

Personally I dont think it should be allowed. If they break the law as a civilian then they should be processed under civilian laws. I dont believe this has anything to do with military ethics. My personal opinion is that it's a way for the government to take away benefits and save money. If a service member did thier 20 or medically retired that should be the end of it. Now if the crime was committed while they were still in service, I can get behind that.

Response by PO1 Ted Godfrey made Sep 12 at 2019 10:55 AM

2019-09-12T10:55:35-04:00

Then easily I think that Michael Thomas Flynn a retired United States Army Lieutenant General should be looked at for this.

Response by CPT Peter Peter made Sep 12 at 2019 12:33 PM

2019-09-12T12:33:13-04:00

Retirement is benefit owed to service member like a company pension. Service member once retired is no longer belong to the Armed Forces therefore not subject to UCMJ. The civilian law will take affect once a service member became a civilian. If service member broke the law while serving & has not been prosecuted then I believed service member can be prosecuted after retirement.

Response by CPT John Lord made Sep 17 at 2019 8:58 AM

2019-09-17T08:58:21-04:00

is you can be recalled for a crime that happened as a civ. can you return to correct to a disability discharge, if the errored?

Response by SFC Robert Ellis, Jr. made Sep 26 at 2019 10:20 PM

2019-09-26T22:20:26-04:00

Retired for whatever reason........
By receiving Pay, Healthcare and Educational Benefits, you are still subjected to the UCMJ.

Response by SSgt Dee O'Connor made Sep 27 at 2019 2:05 AM

2019-09-27T02:05:35-04:00

My guess is yes. Were still an example to our country

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2019 2:06 PM

2019-10-09T14:06:52-04:00

I know this is an old post, but it just got new life. Seems courts have decided retirees can be prosecuted under UCMJ, though there's some back and forth.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/10/08/court-withdraws-opinion-saying-military-retirees-shouldnt-be-court-martialed.html

Court Withdraws Opinion Saying Military Retirees Shouldn't Be Court-Martialed

The Navy-Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals will reconsider the case of a retired Navy chief petty officer.

Response by SSG George Duncan made Oct 12 at 2019 7:39 PM

2019-10-12T19:39:53-04:00

if the gov wants you bad enough

Response by MAJ John Martin made Oct 29 at 2019 11:34 AM

2019-10-29T11:34:04-04:00

BLUF: Yes, retired members of the active component are subject to the UCMJ. When you retire from AD, you go into the Retired Reserve. While an inactive status, you maintain your military affiliation, are subject to recall (rare) and prosecution under the UCMJ.

Response by LTC Joe Anderson made Oct 30 at 2019 9:17 AM

2019-10-30T09:17:09-04:00

Reservist even with 20 years of active duty cannot be recalled. A former Marine is presently fighting in court because his reserve component counterparts are not subject to UCMJ but he is. He wants his charges and conviction thrown out. On first appeal it was thrown out but when the Gov't appealed jurisdiction and his conviction were reinstated. The case is still working it way through the court. But bottom line is only regular component of the armed forces retirees are subject to the UCMJ.

Response by CPL Zach Forrest made Oct 30 at 2019 11:21 PM

2019-10-30T23:21:56-04:00

Simple answer is yes. My understanding of it though is that it only covers crimes and violations committed while active though.

Response by MAJ Seth Goldstein made Oct 31 at 2019 9:43 AM

2019-10-31T09:43:35-04:00

I believe there is very recent case law that indicates that avenue cannot be perused.

Response by SSG Douglas Suzukovich made Oct 31 at 2019 11:27 PM

2019-10-31T23:27:15-04:00

Yes. If you are collecting retirement pay. Dosen't mean it will happen.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Nov 9 at 2019 9:59 AM

2019-11-09T09:59:13-05:00

The answer is Yes they can and have been.

Response by PO3 Robert Laity made Nov 13 at 2019 3:27 AM

2019-11-13T03:27:11-05:00

They are but they SHOULDN'T be. One enlists, not for life. After spending the requisite number of years in the armed services and then meeting retirement criteria. THAT should be it. Retirement is retirement. Discharge should be FULL discharge. I suggest that this ability to reach out into a soldier's or sailor's retirement and subject him or her to the UCMJ is unfair and unjust on it's face. That said, "Any person" without ever having been in the service is subject to prosecution for being a spy under UCMJ 906.106-Spies. Barack Obama currently stands accused of being a spy under that Section and Article. Obama usurped the Presidency by fraud, during a time of war. That makes Obama both a traitor and a spy. http://www.thepostemail.com/11/19/2017/imposters-oval-office/

Imposters in the Oval Office - The Post & Email

“ONE HUNDRED PERCENT AMERICAN” by Robert C. Laity, Copyright 2017, All rights reserved, ISBN #978-0-692-98843-5 (Nov. 19, 2017) — [Editor’s Note: The following is the first five pages, plus a small portion of page 6, of a book registered with the U.S. Copyright Office by citizen researcher and disabled U.S. Navy veteran Robert C. …

Response by LTC Ronald Stephens made Nov 24 at 2019 1:36 PM

2019-11-24T13:36:52-05:00

The only instance THAT I'M AWARE OF is an offense under Article 82 of the UCMJ. There may be others.

Response by SCPO Fred Crowder made Nov 29 at 2019 8:32 PM

2019-11-29T20:32:28-05:00

The Walker brothers were charged under UCMJ selling secrets to the Soviets. They were arrested in late 80s orr early 90s

Response by SFC Bryan Stetzer made Dec 1 at 2019 1:05 AM

2019-12-01T01:05:44-05:00

Yes, absolutely they are. When you retire, legally you enter the "Retired Reserve" and called be called back to active duty for emergencies, etc. This includes UCMJ actions for crimes committed while on active duty. In 1999, MG David Hale was called back on active duty and court martialed for having affairs with the wives of his subordinates. More recently, in 2017 retired MG James J. Grazioplene was court martialed for raping a child.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2019 2:17 AM

2019-12-01T02:17:40-05:00

Yes, for very extreme cases (such as murder and rape) where crimes were committed while ON ACTIVE DUTY and discovered after the soldier/sailor retired. But if you're facing those types of crimes, NJP should be the least of your concerns.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 1 at 2019 3:55 AM

2019-12-01T03:55:43-05:00

According to recent court findings retired troops are more subject to the UCMJ than reservists.

Response by CPO Charles Helms made Dec 1 at 2019 8:26 AM

2019-12-01T08:26:19-05:00

During the Fat Albert investigation they brought a retired admiral or captain back on active duty to stand before a court martial board!

Response by SPC Chris Ison made Dec 1 at 2019 1:31 PM

2019-12-01T13:31:43-05:00

The only way a retiree would be subject to the UCMJ, is if he had committed a crime, WHILE ON ACTIVE DUTY, and never charged. I am not sure what the statute of limitations are for these crimes, if any.

Response by SSG Alfred Woods made Dec 1 at 2019 5:03 PM

2019-12-01T17:03:03-05:00

"YES."
Any service member, who commits a crime and he or she goes unnoticed until after they retire, can be charged and court martialed. I was the training specialist for the Operations Group at Ft. Irwin Ca. (NTC) and General Grazioplene was one of the commanders of Operations group, during my tour, at the NTC. General James J. Grazioplene, 68, was court Martialed after his retirement, the story explains...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-rare-spectacle-army-court-martials-a-retired-general/2017/08/25/473fc440-89ac-11e7-a50f-e0d4e6ec070a_story.html

If this article does not show, copy and paste to your browser

473fc440-89ac-11e7-a50f-e0d4e6ec070a_story.html

Response by SSG Alfred Woods made Dec 1 at 2019 5:18 PM

2019-12-01T17:18:25-05:00

If the member is retired and he\she commits an act of a felony, no he\she can not face a court martial. However, if he\she is retired and commits an act of a felony on post, he\she will face federal charges, because he\she is no longer attached to the military under UCMJ rules, regulations or obligation. If it is found, the he\she committed acts of a felony, prior to retirement, then yes, he\she will be brought back, to stand trial for the actions committed.

James J. Grazioplene, 68, (U.S. Army Retired)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/in-rare-spectacle-army-court-martials-a-retired-general/2017/08/25/473fc440-89ac-11e7-a50f-e0d4e6ec070a_story.html

473fc440-89ac-11e7-a50f-e0d4e6ec070a_story.html

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2019 11:22 AM

2019-12-02T11:22:10-05:00

If the crime touches the time you were on active duty, the probability of being recalled increases.

Response by PO3 Kevin DeLong made Dec 2 at 2019 1:21 PM

2019-12-02T13:21:26-05:00

IF you retired say in 2006 as an E-8 . In 2014 do to advances in DNA you are matched to a rape that occurred on the base you were at from 2002. You can be recalled to duty to face charges from an action that happened while you were on active duty in the US military. This also applies to murders you may have done on active duty.

Response by TSgt Phil Textor made Dec 4 at 2019 5:20 PM

2019-12-04T17:20:08-05:00

A retiree is a civilian and no longer subject to the UCMJ. Cafe committed a crime during their military service it's possible to still be tried under the UCMJ. But a person who has retired or been discharged is no longer subject to the UCMJ for the actions they may commit after they retire or discharged.

Response by SGT Keith Smith made Dec 5 at 2019 1:53 PM

2019-12-05T13:53:52-05:00

What I know. As long as a retiree is on the list and are able to be called back. Normally the first ten years after retirement then yes that person can be activated and tried under UCMJ however if the soldier in question is being persecuted by civilian authority, that would qualify as double jeopardy. That said the commission of a felony removes the soldier from the retirement list and they lose all benefits. Does it happen? Yes when the crime was committed on federal property and they have jurisdiction. Normally no they let the civil authorities handle the case and take action after the conviction but they could if they had the desire to do so.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2019 8:44 PM

2019-12-05T20:44:12-05:00

As far as I know you are not subject to the UCMJ once you retire your out of the military But check with a JAG officer to double check

Response by CPL Jeremy Glenn made Dec 6 at 2019 11:30 AM

2019-12-06T11:30:39-05:00

Maybe for 20 year guys receiving the annuity, but not so much for we medical retirees. I started over twice (breaks in service) and accumulated just shy of 17 years. I’m a peon. They don’t care about me. Besides I stick to myself and have no cause to commit crimes that would warrant that.

Also when our contract ends the UCMJ is not supposed to be our governing law any longer (with some exceptions to higher ranking officers and maybe senior enlisted), especially as we submit to some severely limited constitutional rights while we’re in. Such as the limits to free speech etc.

I’ve never personally known anyone who has ever been brought back for UCMJ adjudication. I’ve heard the stories, but never seen it myself.

Response by SSgt Joshua Williams made Dec 6 at 2019 11:31 AM

2019-12-06T11:31:37-05:00

Why is the UCMJ relevant to any situation that did not happen while someone was with in their commitment? There are laws in place to deal with that for everyone. This just seems like an over reach or a way to take an easier route on a weak case that would never make it in civilian courts.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2019 4:45 PM

2019-12-06T16:45:56-05:00

Yes they can be subject to UCMJ(brought back on active duty temporarily) if they violated the UCMJ while they were on active duty and the statute of limitations for the alleged offense has not passed. They can Any misconduct they commit once they have exited the military will be adjudicated by civilian authorities.

Response by SFC Regina Boyd made Dec 6 at 2019 5:59 PM

2019-12-06T17:59:12-05:00

They need to be brought back to active duty until Title 10, United States Code, to be subject to jurisdiction under the UCMJ.

Response by SSgt Joshua Williams made Dec 7 at 2019 11:14 AM

2019-12-07T11:14:46-05:00

You are places in the inactive reserves for 4 years if you separate from active duty after your first 4 years. (8 year commitment) if you have served 8 full years you are not even in the inactive reserves. Once you are no longer committed to the military, the UCMJ is meaningless.

Response by PO1 Todd McMillin made Dec 7 at 2019 11:35 AM

2019-12-07T11:35:31-05:00

It would require the crime having either occurred while the "retiree" was still in service and been uncovered due to various issues being exposed to the public regarding the cover up and lack of investigation. Or would have to be of such great event that it's connected in someway to the retiree's former career in service.

Hypothetically, on event 1: it would be a "war crime" that was covered up and that the exposure would give the military a huge black eye if uncovered due to events happening that would show there was intentional malfeasance of those who either covered up the crime or involved. The upcoming film "The Last Full Measure" deals with this since there was "friendly fire" involved and was covered up that the officers involved knew about it and tried to prevent the events that happened from being brought out 34 years afterwards.

On event 2: It would be if a retiree turned private contractor was found guilty of selling defective and malfunctioning technology to the military and was able to avoid punishment in the public courts. Therefore "they" could be summoned back to the service and charged under the UCMJ under the articles; but it would likely take an act of Congress and they'd likely die in custody before they exposed their connections to anyone in uniform or government currently before they would even set foot in the court room.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2019 4:14 PM

2019-12-07T16:14:58-05:00

Short answer is yes. Long answer is whether the violation brings the military in it. A felony charge will almost guarantee a “check in” from Uncle Sam. Misdemeanor depends on the case. I have yet to see or hear of an Article 134 against a retiree (the “catch-all” article).

Response by CPO Christopher Longaker made Dec 7 at 2019 8:05 PM

2019-12-07T20:05:33-05:00

Don’t know if any remember this but there was an Army Master Sgt who was retired and brought back in active duty to face a Court Martial for the murder of an AF Officers wife. This was because he couldn’t be tried in civilian court due to double jeapordy.

Response by SGT Stephen Jaffe made Dec 9 at 2019 7:08 AM

2019-12-09T07:08:20-05:00

I was separated in October 1968 as a Sgt. E-5. I had served with the Army Security Agency (Radio Research in 'Nam) with a Top Secret clearance. I never signed any agreement, but I knew not to tell anyone what I was doing. After all; you don't want our adversaries to know anything. If I had gotten in trouble with law enforcement, I'm sure my military record would be available if they 'run a background check. Then, the FBI would probably monitor my situation.

Response by Maj Gary Gault made Dec 24 at 2019 1:33 PM

2019-12-24T13:33:48-05:00

I would believe that the question above should be Certainly NOT. Lets keep UCMJ on active duty where it belongs.

Response by MSgt Gilbert Jones made Jan 2 at 2020 12:07 AM

2020-01-02T00:07:46-05:00

I thought this past year the military court said that retired military could not be court martial for civilian offenses.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2020 4:44 AM

2020-01-02T04:44:56-05:00

Yes they can. You are still accountable for your actions or non-actions even though you’re retired. You notice that some of our retired Staff Officers don’t like to rock the boat because of the UCMJ.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Jan 2 at 2020 11:54 AM

2020-01-02T11:54:48-05:00

The correct answer is YES as long as they receive retired pay they are subject to recall for UCMJ.
Now I have a sneaking suspicion that there is more to the question than we are reading here.
Recall for the purpose of punitive ART'S in most cases is the only time you will see this happen and for the most part will be something that happened during the Soldiers time in Service or some thing that reflects badly on the US Military under punitive ART'S. Uniform violations usually not that would be a nasty letter gram warning in most cases. There has been times that the Military has Recalled a Soldier back and punished them under UCMJ. One of the cases I know of was a Soldier who was Recalled and Court Martialed for Murder I do not have all the details of it. Hope this answers your Question.

Response by CWO2 David Bertoldo made Jan 2 at 2020 12:13 PM

2020-01-02T12:13:51-05:00

i understand that if you have more than 30 yrs you cant be recalled which is what they have to do to court marshal you

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 3 at 2020 11:52 AM

2020-01-03T11:52:49-05:00

I don't think a retired Soldier will get UCMJ action for shop lifting at Wal-Mart. This would be up to a civilian court, but you never know.

Response by Lt Col Bradford Keene made Jan 3 at 2020 3:10 PM

2020-01-03T15:10:25-05:00

When I was an AF Brat in the 60's, I read an article in AF Times where a retired Warrant Officer was passing bad checks in the BX, and was brought back to Active Duty to face Disciplinary Action.

Response by SFC Michael Peterson made Jan 4 at 2020 11:55 PM

2020-01-04T23:55:44-05:00

Retirees are subject to prosecution under the UCMJ but, it would have to be a very serious offense for the military to pursue it. They won't go after a retiree for a minor infraction. It has to be worth their time.

Response by CPT Mike Sims made Jan 5 at 2020 10:42 PM

2020-01-05T22:42:45-05:00

In modern times, it is a means which allows investigative jurisdiction by the Army CID or CI, Air Force OSI, Navy NCIS, and Coast Guard CGIS or CGCIS to conduct investigations into retired servicemembers - especially for matters of National Security or where issues of major Public Safety is concerned... thus expediting any inquiry or investigative process that might be cumbersome by other federal, state or local agencies. In a sense - the military takes care of its own and defends the country at the same time, and if politics are left out of it, the Military Investigative Agencies have a much better record in clearing cases than other investigative agencies whether federal, state or local.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Jan 6 at 2020 8:14 AM

2020-01-06T08:14:05-05:00

Short answer is yes. Long answer is when I retired from the Army in 2008, I received a through brief on the matter.

Response by MSgt James Littlejohn made Jan 9 at 2020 8:49 PM

2020-01-09T20:49:39-05:00

Isn’t it a fact that there is no such term as retirement pay for a career military person??? I believe the “legal” terminology is “retainer pay”. If we career forks are retained and not retired we are merely in a non-active status and can be recalled to AD at the stroke of a Uncle Sams mighty pen. Remember that is why career persons are referred to as “lifers”. All of the above info was what I remember being taught from USAF basic training in 1963. Having been retired for 31 years I probably need to refresh my UCMJ knowledge.

Response by SGT Joseph Alanzo made Jan 11 at 2020 6:05 PM

2020-01-11T18:05:45-05:00

yes yes

Response by CPT Gurinder (Gene) Rana made Jan 12 at 2020 4:44 AM

2020-01-12T04:44:29-05:00

All are valid reasons to recall a retiree and slap the UCMJ against them; rape, murder and espionage. Every uniformed officer, past and present, has taken the Oath to uphold, and defend the laws. Breaking the law is a breach of Oath. I don't see the confusion.

Response by SGT Drue Rockwell made Jan 12 at 2020 4:15 PM

2020-01-12T16:15:17-05:00

Yes. As much as I disagree with it, all retirees AND those receiving VA disability are subject to UCMJ until they stop receiving said compensation. A Marine was recently dealt with thusly for rape in Japan. There are more cases than I'd like to think. ANY UCMJ violation can get you, but they normally won't waste time unless it's a major violation or a high profile/international one.

Response by CPO Cory Cook made Jan 16 at 2020 11:53 PM

2020-01-16T23:53:17-05:00

A retired first class petty officer was brought back to active duty after being charged with child molestation of the young girl who lived across the street from us (~1992)...found out when interviewed that he had also molested our child...yes he did go to court martial, but we left before results

Response by SPC Darrell Fuglseth made Feb 4 at 2020 11:38 AM

2020-02-04T11:38:36-05:00

I can't of any reason except classified info is given out.By a officer.Other wise it would be very rare

Response by SFC Mario Rodriquez made Feb 4 at 2020 1:21 PM

2020-02-04T13:21:03-05:00

Does this also mean we are protected by the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief act if we so choose to be? You have to look at this from all angles, not just the one beneficial to you. In this case law enforcement and prosecution.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2020 7:27 PM

2020-02-05T19:27:31-05:00

Supreme Court ruled on this about this time last year. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/02/22/supreme-court-retirees-can-be-court-martialed-crimes-committed-after-service.html

Supreme Court: Retirees Can Be Court-Martialed for Crimes Committed After Service

In denying a recent petition, the U.S. Supreme Court preserves UCMJ jurisdiction for retirees.

Response by PO2 Muhammad Aadam made Feb 6 at 2020 12:30 PM

2020-02-06T12:30:10-05:00

I feel if retirees can be convicted in "retirement", I feel that they should be promoted in retirement. Example of this, is the Tuskgee Airman from Colonel to B. General.

Response by SSgt Carrie Foster Campbell made Feb 6 at 2020 8:56 PM

2020-02-06T20:56:20-05:00

Here is an article from the Military Times https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/01/29/military-retirees-can-be-court-martialed-after-all-appeals-court-decides.html?ESRC=army_200204.nl

Military Retirees Can Be Court-Martialed After All, Appeals Court Decides

A naval appeals court found that a retiree was properly court-martialed for a crime committed after he had left active duty.

Response by SGT Richmond Bert made Feb 8 at 2020 4:44 AM

2020-02-08T04:44:39-05:00

If for some reason we can be called back to active duty, then we can still be charged for crimes under the UCMJ, that is the bottomline here

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 8 at 2020 8:03 PM

2020-02-08T20:03:08-05:00

There was a case I read about where on appeal, the service member was subject. The service member was retired from active duty. Reserve component retirees aren't in jeopardy of UCMJ after retirement. The only reason I can think of is the pay status and Article 2.

Response by SFC Daniel Brown made Feb 9 at 2020 6:54 AM

2020-02-09T06:54:44-05:00

Last year the U. S. Supreme Court refused to hear the appeal of the conviction of a retired Marine who raped a sailor in Japan. MilitaryTimes.com article. Military retirees can still be court-martialed, Supreme Court affirms

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2020 11:13 AM

2020-02-09T11:13:36-05:00

Yes... as a retiree one can be recalled to active duty and court martialed.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2020 2:16 PM

2020-02-09T14:16:51-05:00

Does this apply to ETS not retirement as well? I understand the retirement aspect of this, but as the article states you have to be receiving pay if you don't as ETS status does that limit them?

Response by TSgt Robert Moore made Feb 16 at 2020 7:39 PM

2020-02-16T19:39:38-05:00

Yes, retirees are subject to the UCMJ. However, most of the time crimes are referred to the state or federal government rather than the UCMJ.

Response by Sgt David Sylvia made Feb 17 at 2020 4:45 AM

2020-02-17T04:45:59-05:00

Super rare. The only case I know of is a retiree in Iwakuni Japan allegedly committed a heinous sex crime. Besides facing the Japanese judicial system he was reactivated for a court martial & booted out with a dishonorable discharge. Then transferred to Japanese custody.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/02/22/supreme-court-retirees-can-be-court-martialed-crimes-committed-after-service.html

Supreme Court: Retirees Can Be Court-Martialed for Crimes Committed After Service

In denying a recent petition, the U.S. Supreme Court preserves UCMJ jurisdiction for retirees.

Response by MSgt John Geruso made Feb 24 at 2020 8:22 AM

2020-02-24T08:22:03-05:00

If you did something illegal while in the service, you can only be brought back for court-martial if you did something illegal to get an honorable discharge. Supreme Court affirmed this in 1955. Airman arrested five months after discharge, charged with conspiracy to commit murder while assigned in Korea. Under Art3a UCMJ, he was brought to Korea for a court-martial and convicted. Attorney appealed on grounds UCMJ didn't apply because airman was no longer in military. DC appeals court overturned the conviction, military petitioned Supreme Court for an appeal. Supreme Court upheld.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2020 3:12 PM

2020-03-04T15:12:39-05:00

Only if the crime was committed while on active duty. Otherwise, no.

Response by SFC Douglas Welch made Mar 6 at 2020 8:37 AM

2020-03-06T08:37:42-05:00

You betcha! Agreement for retirement. Tricare as well in cases of negligence can refuse coverage ie not wearing seatbelts in an accident.

Response by MSG Douglas Wilson made Mar 7 at 2020 5:33 PM

2020-03-07T17:33:59-05:00

They can be brought back on active duty to be punished under UCMJ for an offense that was committed prior to retirement. Once retired they cannot be punished under UCMJ for something they committed after retirement, common sense! Jeeze

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made Mar 7 at 2020 6:44 PM

2020-03-07T18:44:01-05:00

I believe so. I also had read something on a VA page that stated that service connected Veterans can be recalled in a state of emergency. idk if that is true or not.

Response by 1SG Mitchell Smith made Mar 8 at 2020 1:30 PM

2020-03-08T13:30:22-04:00

I knew retirees could be brought back to duty for extreme legal reasons, rape etc... I have no dog in this fight, otherthan overseeing a few court proceedings. However, as a Senior Leader charged company/battalion/brigade or higher count the 15-6's you've oversaw, there's a lot of soldiers in prison after getting out and charges been made afterwards. Most deserved IMHO.

Response by CH (LTC) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2020 9:34 PM

2020-03-08T21:34:22-04:00

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/08/09/new-bombshell-legal-opinion-says-military-retirees-cant-be-court-martialed.html

New 'Bombshell' Legal Opinion Says Military Retirees Can't Be Court-Martialed

An opinion from the Navy-Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals says court-martialing military retirees is unconstitutional.

Response by SFC Kenneth Kreps made Mar 9 at 2020 2:35 PM

2020-03-09T14:35:12-04:00

I think most everyone has already answered the question, and the general consensus is "YES".
I don't think, however that the military would generally be interested in non-serious crimes, such as simple misdemeanors, one item i did not see mentioned were crimes against the Government such as spying, espionage, treason, or other conduct that would bring discredit to the Government or to the Branch of Service in question. I'm not a lawyer, although I also retired as a law enforcement officer, it only makes sense that the military's UCMJ actions would be imposed on the above mentioned type of crimes. That's my rant.

Response by Sgt James D. made Mar 10 at 2020 12:26 AM

2020-03-10T00:26:19-04:00

as a matter of fact yes it has! while stationed at camp Pendleton ca while going to the 7 day store my buddy and I saw a hit and run on base! we followed him to the stop light out side the gate! I jumped out and tried to distract him while my buddy grubbed his keys funny thing I forgot my buddy had a broken foot and didn't get there in time but he did get a tag number! I ended up on the hood of the car so I got a real close look at the person driving! the person driving was a retired master sgt he was brought back on active duty to face a court martial! where it came out he had been taking advantage of a sgts wife stationed over seas, he was found guilty and sentenced to a BCD loosing all his rank! and his pension!

Response by MSgt Gilbert Jones made Mar 31 at 2020 2:32 PM

2020-03-31T14:32:55-04:00

I thought I recently read that if a retired member who has completed all of his reserve time (30 years of total service) he was not longer considered under the UCMJ. I completed 21 years and six months active service, and have been retired from the inactive reserve for 19 years.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2020 9:42 AM

2020-04-01T09:42:23-04:00

unless it's something serious, the military isn't going to pull anyone back onto duty to prosecute them. They prefer to let civilian LEO handle it.

Response by CPL Joseph Elinger made Apr 4 at 2020 8:32 AM

2020-04-04T08:32:03-04:00

The following is "pretty much" *universal:
In as much as ALL Veterans (who swore in) are potentially subject to recall for duties (rare as this may be).
In so, ALL Veterans are potentially subject to UCMJ in ANY cases * "specifically" involving The Armed Forces ie / ex secrets, security, etc.
Segway / Trivia: The US is still in a state of armistice (not peace) with North Korea ie
We have mutually remained in a "cold" state of war with them since the conflict / war initiated. As such, laws & penalties for both Armed Forces & civilians for wartime Treason are still able to be enforced.

Response by CPT Jessica Thomas made Apr 8 at 2020 9:42 PM

2020-04-08T21:42:59-04:00

This sucks I didn’t know anything like this wow that is crazy

Response by CAPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2020 12:00 AM

2020-04-09T00:00:45-04:00

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/08/09/new-bombshell-legal-opinion-says-military-retirees-cant-be-court-martialed.html/amp

New 'Bombshell' Legal Opinion Says Military Retirees Can't Be Court-Martialed

A new legal opinion from the Navy-Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals says court-martialing military retirees is unconstitutional -- and the reason concerns the issue of retirement pay.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2020 1:56 PM

2020-04-09T13:56:01-04:00

9 Aug 2019
Military.com | By Gina Harkins
A new legal opinion from the Navy-Marine Corps Court of Criminal Appeals says court-martialing military retirees is unconstitutional -- and the reason concerns the issue of retirement pay.

Response by SSgt Rhonda James made Apr 10 at 2020 4:44 PM

2020-04-10T16:44:52-04:00

Uhh! Yeah! Unfortunately the term G.I was penned for a reason. Once enlisted, you are Government Issue and thererfore (PROPERTY!) And IF you STILL get a check every month, yup ya bests t believe yaigttlm

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 11 at 2020 8:31 AM

2020-04-11T08:31:17-04:00

I’ve always been told you are subject to ucmj when drawing pay. I do believe that to be true.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Apr 12 at 2020 8:05 AM

2020-04-12T08:05:04-04:00

The answer to that question is yes. The only example I can give on this subject was that back in 2014, the ship's purser on the USNS Arctic was caught embezzling money from the ship. He was also retired military. Because of that crime, he forfeited his pay, and has been incarcerated.

Response by Cpl Eric Day made Apr 12 at 2020 1:41 PM

2020-04-12T13:41:32-04:00

Yes, death before dishonor. you getting paid your going to play mother fucker. I do not know what you thought you signed up for. Im about to haze the shit out of you leave me.

Response by A1C Stanley Kolakowski made Apr 13 at 2020 10:48 AM

2020-04-13T10:48:31-04:00

When I was separating (not even retiring), I was told that ALL "prior service" personnel are forever bound by the UCMJ. However:
1. It costs a lot to send someone through Military Justice. The Services are generally content to allow civilian justice to do it's thing if it's a military/civilian crossover - unless the "benefits" of trying the member under the UCMJ are greater than these costs.
2. A lot no longer applies. No "official" duties to be in dereliction of. No "formal" chain of command. A lot harder to bring discredit to the Service when it's known that you no longer serve. Also, how do you get an Art. 15 once out? Military can't tell civvy job to "restrict pay", "restriction to quarters", extra duties, etc.
3. Any act that directly impacts Military Readiness - Treason, Espionage (release of Classified Information), etc. is a nigh-guaranteed knock on the door and "full reinstatement" so they can throw the book at you.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2020 12:29 AM

2020-04-17T00:29:06-04:00

So I am just thinking out loud here. So retirement gives us ID cards. Base privileges. Paycheck. So I am thing without knowing for sure. That it would come with the retirement. As we are probably expected to live by the 7 army values we were expected to live by while in. Just thinking like I said I have no knowledge as to weather it’s true. But I would expect it to be.

Response by MGySgt Joseph Magyar made Apr 21 at 2020 3:12 AM

2020-04-21T03:12:23-04:00

yes we are!

Response by PO1 Richard Mecom made Apr 23 at 2020 8:55 AM

2020-04-23T08:55:19-04:00

On this line with retirees with pay can they be recalled to active duty if needed?

Response by MAJ Sean Fay made May 2 at 2020 11:10 PM

2020-05-02T23:10:45-04:00

Yes. They've brought people back onto active duty for trial before and can do so in the future. Occasionaly, a technicality means that a suspect can't be prosecuted by local law and the feds don't have jurisdiction, so they do this. It has to be egregious and usually is something that reflects extremely poorly on the service.

Response by TSgt Russel Stabler made May 17 at 2020 9:46 AM

2020-05-17T09:46:39-04:00

Having been a Security Policeman and read the UCMJ, it has been my understanding that yes military retirees are still subject to the UCMJ as long as they are receiving pay from the government. I did not see any distinction between minor or major offenses for being punished under the UCMJ, but I think it common sense that if you commit a felony on or off a military installation, you can be brought back to be prosecuted under the UCMJ.

Response by SSG Mark Johnson made May 17 at 2020 4:32 PM

2020-05-17T16:32:47-04:00

Many people are not aware that when you finish your service on active duty and if you have served long enough to receive retirement pay it is actually retainer pay that’s why we all are still subject to UCMJ Punishment.

Response by LTC Andrew Addison made May 17 at 2020 7:11 PM

2020-05-17T19:11:47-04:00

So you guys better get a haircut and start doing PT

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2020 7:34 PM

2020-05-17T19:34:12-04:00

Yes, however I understand retired Reserve component members drawing pay or not are not subject to the UCMJ unless they are recalled to active duty. That distinction does seem a little bit strange considering that retired reserve members have the same benefits and even the same title once on pay status.. I can sign my name as LTC (RET) USA just as an active retired Soldier can.

Response by CPO Don Campbell made May 18 at 2020 8:11 AM

2020-05-18T08:11:35-04:00

So the 50 lbs of cocaine i have stashed in my room for medicinal purposes could be a problem...I am joking its only 25 ibs...can the military force retirees to take a urinalysis test...what about the flip side if I am subject to ucmj then can I get legal counsel from the military for taking legal action against someone or a business...I retired in 2001 but I know there must be a couple of those black ball point pens somewhere in my house...better get rid of them...maybe all of us retirees should commit crimes then we will overwhelm the military legal system...I do agree murder, espionage and taking those black government pens are high crimes

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2020 3:24 AM

2020-05-19T03:24:44-04:00

Yes....recall is not automatic and Civil DA must consent or defer. Normally only felony level, treason, espionage or directly involved with military people or property..... Pensions and pension rank rates are on the table

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2020 9:21 AM

2020-05-19T09:21:55-04:00

It is true. As a Navy Master at Arms (Retired), I have seen retirees brought back to uniform for Courts Martial twice, both were very serious events. It is possible, but unlikely... in many cases the SJAG usually defers to the civilian courts. The Assimilative Crimes Act is how this is made possible in some cases.

Response by CH (CPT) Jerry McGowin made May 20 at 2020 5:21 PM

2020-05-20T17:21:27-04:00

Yes, i had a NCO disabled retired from the USCG while i was a yeoman, and he was brought up on charges for shop lifting at the Coast Guard Package store in Cape May NJ in the late 70's

Response by CMSgt Donald ONeill made May 20 at 2020 7:18 PM

2020-05-20T19:18:29-04:00

Yes all retirees are subject to UCMJ just because you are retired you can not get away from UCMJ it stays for life .

Response by CDR William Kempner made May 23 at 2020 1:14 PM

2020-05-23T13:14:05-04:00

As Col Charles Williams mentioned, the likelihood of someone retired from the US Armed Forces being returned to active duty to face a court-martial is, while possible, slight. Much of it depends on the infraction. Usually it would be something involving national security. The Walker Brothers spy ring is a good example. One was a LCDR and the other was a CWO4, and a third guy-not a brother- was a CPO, Jerry something as I recall. "Johnny Red"s son Michael was on active duty-he was on the Nimitz when they pulled him off at Haifa(one of my LPOs was on the Nimitz at the time , and said they told the Marines to stand clear as they were taking him off-as the sailors were trying to brain him with dogging wrenches!!), and unless he has been released, is still in the Federal Lock-up. The two brothers died in jail. I honestly don't recall if they were returned to active duty or tried in Federal court. I recall something similar during Vietnam of a retiree returned to active duty for espionage-Army guy- but I don't recall the details(about 1968)

Response by SSG R R made May 23 at 2020 8:15 PM

2020-05-23T20:15:58-04:00

Short answer... Yes.

Usually reserved for criminal action during time in service.

I did hear of someone that was attempted to be brought back for things they said on social media for violation of social media guidelines, but that ended up going nowhere from what I understand.

But yeah, you can be recalled to active duty even after retirement.

Response by MSgt Chandos Clapper made May 25 at 2020 1:12 AM

2020-05-25T01:12:14-04:00

As a retired USAF MSgt (E-7) I’m OK with this. Veterans really are different from the people we protected. Duty, Honor, Country.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2020 4:39 AM

2020-05-25T04:39:29-04:00

Most of the issues are when the Retiree did something while on Active duty but it is not found out until after retirement they can be brought back to active duty and be dealt with and could result in the retirement being revolted and having to pay the army back.

Response by Col Dave Terrinoni made May 25 at 2020 10:43 AM

2020-05-25T10:43:39-04:00

I see that this is a 4-year old question and there are over 400 comments, and as a recently retired military member, the wording that LTC Weiss presents makes sense. The phrase, “entitled to pay,” is what retired military receive. It’s “retired pay,” not a pension. We are all in the Retired Reserve and if the bottom of your DD214 says, “subject to recall by the Secretary of” you’re branch of service, then we can be recalled..., whenever.

Response by GySgt John Hudson made May 25 at 2020 6:33 PM

2020-05-25T18:33:37-04:00

One simple word..... YES.... A retiree can be recalled at any time by the Secretary of their branch of service and by the Secretary of Defense, to active duty for the purposes specific to the UCMJ.... I have been informed by a JAG friend of mine that the article of the UCMJ being referenced must have occurred while on Active or called up Reserve duty. JP

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 26 at 2020 12:34 AM

2020-05-26T00:34:34-04:00

If I am not mistaken it has to be for a violation of the UCMJ that occurred prior to them retiring from service and it being found out after they are in a retiree status.

Response by MSgt Gilbert Jones made May 26 at 2020 12:48 AM

2020-05-26T00:48:45-04:00

If it is a federal conviction you can.

Response by CPO Arthur Weinberger made May 26 at 2020 5:04 PM

2020-05-26T17:04:41-04:00

Of course, they are! You quoted Article 2 of the UCMJ. That should be all the proof you need. Were you in the military in America?

Response by PO3 Robert Laity made May 29 at 2020 10:19 PM

2020-05-29T22:19:13-04:00

Yes. It happens and it is NOT just. When one "retires", the cord should be cut. One spends a required term of years necessary to qualify for a pension. That should be IT!! People who do not retire are done with their service when their enlistment is up. What justifies the government to keep control of a retiree? The UCMJ should be revised. One should not be subject to the UCMJ after retiring from the service.

Response by PO1 Bert Gebhard made Jun 23 at 2020 8:16 PM

2020-06-23T20:16:31-04:00

"Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay are still subject to the UCMJ". Most of you have probably heard of the Timothy Hennis murder case. But I was thinking about stuff far less serious. For instance, a recent retiree sees an active duty senior NCO, Petty Officer, or Commissioned Officer at the exchange. The retiree makes an inappropriate remark to the senior member, who he got into it with before the retiree retired. The retiree may be thinking "What can they do to me now"? Would the senior man be able to "book" the retiree? I'm guessing the next higher up would shoot it down, as we all have seen that happen. But who knows? Thoughts?

Response by SSG Bruce Barrett made Jun 24 at 2020 6:23 AM

2020-06-24T06:23:41-04:00

Well if that is the case, I know of several commissioned officers that should be brought back and loose there commission due to political views they make in public, either by voice or on a social media platform.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 24 at 2020 1:08 PM

2020-06-24T13:08:27-04:00

I read part of it. Clicked "continue" and crazy things happened to my laptop.

Response by SP5 Ann Parris made Jun 26 at 2020 10:02 AM

2020-06-26T10:02:21-04:00

I can think of one instance when a retiree was called back to active duty to face murder charges. He was convicted in military court because the murders happened during active duty. He was young when it the murders happened and he served with distinction after that, but he was still recalled.

Response by SSG William Bruno made Jun 26 at 2020 12:44 PM

2020-06-26T12:44:56-04:00

Former Master Sergeant Timothy Hennis was brought back to active duty and convicted on three counts of first degree murder. The murders occurred in the 1980s. Hennis was convicted and sentenced in a civilian court in North Carolina. Hennis appealed and received a new trial. The state lost the new trial. Hennis was returned to active duty and served until retirement in the mid 2000s. New evidence was found against Hennis and he was brought back to active duty and prosecuted under the UCMJ. He was sentenced to death and is now on death row at Leavenworth, KS.

Response by MSG Al Aguilar made Jun 26 at 2020 1:27 PM

2020-06-26T13:27:25-04:00

Those receiving retired pay are subject to the UCMJ.

Response by LCDR Mike Morrissey made Jun 27 at 2020 5:49 AM

2020-06-27T05:49:17-04:00

As mentioned or alluded to in prior posts, the distinction as to retirees is the "Pay.'

A gray area reservist can be retired after accumulating sufficient service and points (not a 20+ active duty retirement). However it's not until age 60 that pay kicks in and possibly be susceptible to UCMJ . There is a fine distinction for active duty retirement on 20+ years and the receipt of pay after 60. Technically I was receiving retainer pay until 60 then went to another list though the pay etc remained the same.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Jun 27 at 2020 10:38 AM

2020-06-27T10:38:26-04:00

Here is the thing, if the retiree is on base and let say he gets a speeding ticket on base, that person is subject to UCMJ. However, they cannot take pay or rank (best to my understanding and I know I will be corrected). Now, let say that same person gets a speeding ticket off base, the answer is simple, no he is not subject to UCMJ. Here is another one, if that person committed murder while on active duty and is now retired, he would be considered UCMJ action because it happened when he was active. Now lets say that it happened after he retired, UCMJ could happened but the Military would let the civil authorities to handle it. All is what I had stated is my own opinion. I am not a lawyer nor do I have a law degree.

Response by PO1 Brenda Donohoe made Jun 27 at 2020 7:55 PM

2020-06-27T19:55:29-04:00

Dear Ma'am/Sir:
I am a 17 yr Iraqi war combat Vet discharged on 03MAY13. While married, my husband was a contractor in Afghanistan. Three months prior to his coming home, he met a Nurse Commander who started an adulterous affair with my husband in OCTFY11 while in a combat zone. (She also was involved in having her boss relieved of duty for sexual harassment (He denied the accusation) , in a high profile case and lying under oath against him, as well as lying on and submitting government documents. She was even in her hometown news for this despicable Act.) She ended her orders in OCTFY11 and returned to San Jose, CA and continued to have an adulterous affair
nonetheless, with my husband in violation of Article 134. I found out her command and contacted the SJA for the San Jose area. The SJA (a woman) indicated that she would not file a report against the Nurse CMD because, "She had no authority over my husband, a contractor civilian". I told her anyone was entitled to file a report against a military member and that it was the SJA/Command's DUTY to investigate. The SJA declined to do so even after the adulterer continued the affair. I tried on several occasions to speak to the CO of the Command (a woman, but she would never accept my calls, nor return the countless messages I left. That Nurse Commander not only was a disgrace to the uniform I proudly wore, but was at the very least, unbecoming. In FY12, she came and stayed with my husband in Florida in one of our properties... We were still married (while I had other orders). When I came back, I demanded that she leave. She did not. In FY13, she demanded that my husband divorce me after our nearly 12 years of marriage, which he did in that same year... Money talks!
I have tried unsuccessfully to bring a report against this 0-4 (she doesn't deserve to be called a 'Commander') for having an adulterous affair... In a combat zone no less, to no avail. I recently found out she has retired. Since she receives retirement pay from the military, she is still governed by the UCMJ and I want to file a report and have her punished for such an egregious offense. Not to mention, I am sure that the Captain she had relieved of duty for alleged sexual harassment (during the same time she was committing adultery) is surreal. This was a very high-profile case and she lied and ruined this man's career with her lies. She, apparently, is like the Teflon Don in the military! Respectfully, I still believe she should have sanctions placed on her with all due respect! Thank you, in advance, for your time and consideration. I look forward to your response.
Respectfully,
Brenda D.

Response by SGT Joseph Alanzo made Jun 29 at 2020 4:19 AM

2020-06-29T04:19:42-04:00

hell yes yes

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2020 6:50 PM

2020-06-29T18:50:47-04:00

If you committed a crime while on active duty you are subject to the UCMJ. If you retire or get off active duty and the statute of limitations hasn’t run, you can be brought back to face Court-Martial. The Army retains jurisdiction on the case because of when it happened and what the individual’s status was. The cases where this is most common is child abuse cases where the child grows up or reports the abuse years down the line after the person got out of the military. But this is also possible in a variety of other scenarios.

MAJ JAG

Response by LTC Pete Moore made Jul 9 at 2020 11:22 PM

2020-07-09T23:22:11-04:00

Yes if they are brought back on active duty. Several FOGO’s have returned to active duty for prosecution. Their punishments were deserved, not common but a well established precedent.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Jul 24 at 2020 7:25 AM

2020-07-24T07:25:05-04:00

The answer to that is YES. When I retired from the Army in 2008, I received a briefing stating that even though I was going to be in a "retired" status. I was subject to the UCMJ.

Response by SP5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 24 at 2020 10:37 AM

2020-07-24T10:37:48-04:00

i am not up to date on this, but what does UCMJ stand for?

Response by SSG Bill Kenny made Jul 26 at 2020 8:13 PM

2020-07-26T20:13:29-04:00

What about 100% Disabled Veterans, would they fall under the UCMJ.

Response by PO2 Greg Donahoe made Jul 27 at 2020 10:42 AM

2020-07-27T10:42:21-04:00

Don't know about case law in this regard, but the plain wording of the UCMJ allows it. A convening authority would have to be able to articulate why any court action was appropriate. Probably the best thing for retirees to understand is that this is a possibility and, in exchange for accepting retirement pay, one accepts some level of ongoing obligation to the government.

Response by 1SG Gary Owens made Jul 27 at 2020 5:35 PM

2020-07-27T17:35:46-04:00

Yes it can! Guy was called back to active duty at Bragg and charged with murder

Response by SSG Alfred Ryals made Jul 28 at 2020 8:56 AM

2020-07-28T08:56:15-04:00

Hello Sir,
I respectfully disagree with the notion that retired personnel could face UCMJ:
1. Going through due process the retirees would be expensive (housing for court date), (food and clothing etc.,)and military professionals would not have the time nor manpower to do this.
2. Who would have Article 15 authority over retirees?
3. So I read para 4. Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay. Entitled to pay from the US Army most retirees aren’t paid from the US Army maybe Department of the Army Civilians are. Just my opinion the civilian law enforcement much better equipped to handle us lazy retirees.

Response by Lt Col Leslie Bryant made Jul 28 at 2020 7:54 PM

2020-07-28T19:54:37-04:00

Yes, you can be recalled to active duty specifically for crimes you would have committed when you were on active duty. Some cases might include homicides that take years to uncover, or child abuse or rapes or sexual assaults or war crimes that come up at a later time. Anyone can be tried for homicide whenever it is discovered. I think it’s the same with war crimes when ever they are disclosed. Child abuse and sexual assaults have a limitation of up to 5 yrs from the date the victim discloses. A retired two star US Army General was just brought back onto active duty after already being tried for sexual abuse of his daughter and retired because more recent additional incidences of him sexually abusing his daughter that still had a time line were brought to the attention of civilian prosecutors. The conclusion of his case was he would admit guilt to sexually abusing his daughter while on active duty in return for not going to jail. I am aware of enlisted being brought back on active duty for charges of desertion, at a couple of my assignments. Likely officers too during or following the Vietnam War. Most military prosecutors don’t want to bring officers or enlisted back onto active duty for offenses.

Response by CPL Sarah Stilwell made Jul 29 at 2020 1:33 AM

2020-07-29T01:33:53-04:00

Thank god my blast injuries were ignored and i have 100% via the va and no retirement pay from the armed forces! Its like being a military brat again lol

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 20 at 2020 12:38 AM

2020-08-20T00:38:01-04:00

wow, didn't know. Good question

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Sep 25 at 2020 10:29 PM

2020-09-25T22:29:14-04:00

Yes! If your found liable/guilty or even found innocent in a Civilian Criminal Trial then the Military Courts can pick up on it and trie you again and Double Jeopardy does not apply because the venue changes. Either way you lose all government benefits if convicted that you work so hard to receive is gone until you serve your time and then will be reinstated. Oh! no back pay or pay increases will be added. If you was getting $1.00 when you lost it. You will resume the $1.00 payment.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Sep 28 at 2020 2:22 PM

2020-09-28T14:22:03-04:00

They can't make you walk that straight line...but they can make you wish you did, lol.

Response by Lt Col Paul Dallemagne made Oct 8 at 2020 7:54 PM

2020-10-08T19:54:04-04:00

OBTW, I believe the same can apply to deserters.

If I remember correctly, in legal officer school they use the example of a declared deserter who was picked up 14 years later on a traffic stop. In those 14 years he had never had any other interaction with the law. He was arrested and the Navy brought him back to be Court Martialed for desertion (I don't remember what level of Court Martial). That particular example went a different direction though, when during the course of the Court Martial he was asked why he deserted from boot camp. His reply was along the lines of "My drill instructor told me I was too stupid to live and that I should just go home, so I did." That was after he scored a 14 on the ASVAB. This was a shock, and the JAG was upset that neither the prosecution or defense had asked that question before the actual Court Martial. He found that the defendant had ben in his legally appointed place of duty for the past 14 years, and had not been paid...

This is a story told to squadron Legal Officers to make a point of trying to know all the facts and motivations before standing in front of a JAG / Judge as either the prosecution or defense. I don't know if this story is actually true, can anybody elaborate?

Response by SN Dorance Gray made Oct 9 at 2020 12:25 AM

2020-10-09T00:25:36-04:00

I WAS NEVER TOLD THAT

Response by 1stSgt Edward Liggett made Oct 9 at 2020 3:15 AM

2020-10-09T03:15:55-04:00

This U.S. Air Force Retiree Master Sergeant expects to be subject to the UCMJ every time I'm on a DOD Installation or Aircraft. Otherwise, when I'm not engaged with any DOD component I am not subject to the UCMJ.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Oct 9 at 2020 11:24 AM

2020-10-09T11:24:47-04:00

The UCMJ provides for offences that address criminal offences and other articles to maintain good order and discipline within the military. When we retire, we are authorized to identify ourselves as retired from our respective branches, and this identification is often used to establish credibility or expertise in discussions where our experience lends such credibility. We are expected to use that privilege judiciously.
Our status as a retiree is generally common knowledge in the community in which we reside, thereby continuing our status as military, no matter if we advertise it or not. Any deviation we make from community norms may not be attributed to you by name, but often is attributed to you by identification as "that retired Marine Colonel" thus the UCMJ preserves the ability to punish individuals for conduct deleterious to the reputation of the DOD. Heinous criminal activity is one obvious situation where subjecting a retiree to charges under the UCMJ, but even more important thing the DOD must protect is our tradition and oath of allegiance to the Constitution and the fact that we will not be involved in any military effort to solve a political situation by use of military force. Arguably, this is a major factor that separates us from the "banana republics" where the civilian government depends upon its relationship with the military and former military to maintain its position. In this case, were a letter published by a group of retired Generals advocating the use of military force to change the person holding an elected office, I would expect an entirely different reaction from DOD than it takes in letters from the same group supporting the election of a specific individual. The fact that even a retired General officer's ability to generate a coup is almost impossible is not obvious to your average civilian
As others have said in this string, I feel no undue restrictions because of my exposure to the UCMJ as it merely demands I continue conduct which represented my priorities during my entire period of service.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Oct 9 at 2020 12:57 PM

2020-10-09T12:57:56-04:00

If someone is on the retired list with more than 30 years, then no.

Response by SSG Mannix Brooks made Oct 10 at 2020 11:44 PM

2020-10-10T23:44:46-04:00

Funny we have this question in North Carolina this is major news. Not because the person in question is retired, he is a reservist, former North Carolina senator and the Democratic nominee for Senate LTC Cal Cunningham. He apparently should call himself Jody because he pulled that type of move. Now in my case I'm a retiree and unless I do something spectacular that makes the national news or at least very very serious I doubt I see UCMJ but an officer is never technically retired as they are subject to get called back at any age. When they were still doing Combat Readiness Center (CRC) Fort Benning, GA (later Indiana for just the contractor) then for piecemeal units of and active duty and active reserve detached unit members, civilians contractor there was someone that came there I thought was the oldest contractor I ever saw. Day one soldier looked at us (I was a new contractor, freshly retired) and said we should be ashamed of ourselves. Day two she was wearing a uniform with a butt pack and I got the last laugh but she wore no rank so the troops laughed behind her back. Day 3 she showed up wearing full bird rank and all that stopped. The woman was about 72 and was in charge of the Northern California prison network hospital system but she could barely move and had two troops assigned to walk her around because the vest was too heavy for her going to the range. I got to camp Victory and lo and behold she was in PT uniform jogging, slow (fast enough for slow group) but jogging down the street and looked surprisingly younger for some (what did she get injected with). The morale of the story if you retired as an officer and you still have you wits about you there is always the possibility of recall and always the great chance UCMJ will get you if you royally screw up.

Response by SFC Robert Bundrick made Oct 11 at 2020 4:38 PM

2020-10-11T16:38:49-04:00

I think this would or could be challenged in court, it seems a little outdated imo! From what I'm reading and others have stated that this mainly applies to Officers but it was suggested that a savy JAG attorney could try and muster up something against Enlisted by utilizing Article 134 (The Catch All) offenses that are not covered but as I kept reading I could see that it would be highly unlikely to get a conviction on a retired Enlisted Soldier short of a crime taking place on Federal property! At the end of the day I don't think we will see many case's where Officer's are being brought out of retirement for speaking out against a General or President! That would set a bad precedent for future recruitment! It was a good read though sir!

Response by SSG Scott Bregi made Oct 13 at 2020 3:39 PM

2020-10-13T15:39:29-04:00

As I understand it, This also pertains to commissioned officers under Art. 88. Can a retired officer be charged under Art. 88 for publicly making disparaging remarks towards their Commander in chief among others while in Retired status?

Response by SSG Scott Bregi made Oct 13 at 2020 3:39 PM

2020-10-13T15:39:42-04:00

As I understand it, This also pertains to commissioned officers under Art. 88. Can a retired Commissioned Officer be charged under Art. 88 for publicly making disparaging remarks towards their Commander in chief among others while in Retired status?

Response by LT Terry Lober made Oct 14 at 2020 3:05 AM

2020-10-14T03:05:14-04:00

There isn't a clear answer. Yes-IF the acts were committed while on active dity(before retirement), and no if the acts were committed 100% after the member was placed on the retirement rolls. Retired "pay" isn't pay at all. I know. I filed the class action lawsuit against the State of Kansas because the Statewas taxing military retirement pay-as pay- while not taxing any other form of federal or state retirement funds. In 1991 the SCOTUS ruled in a 9-0 decision that "military pay" is NOT pay for services and was NOT taxable by any state unless that state taxed as income all other federal and state retirement incomes. 35 State income tax laws were struck down and that, dear reader, is why military retirement pay isn't (usually) taxed by your State. The "pay" arguement was a fiction used by Kansas to tax military retirees. It was also the first successful civil class action suit against Kansas since Brown vs Topeka Board of Ed.
You are all welcomed.
Check your facts. In every case the accused retiree has been referred to a Court-Martial for conduct performed while on actual active duty. Oh yes, the original plaintiff in the class action suit that went to SCOTUS, was my father, a retired Army Colonel and I was merely obeying his "requests".

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 14 at 2020 11:15 PM

2020-10-14T23:15:32-04:00

It can happen years after retirement and decades after the crime(s) occurred. https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/12/28/a-retired-army-2-star-is-heading-to-trial-on-charges-that-he-raped-his-daughter/

A retired Army 2-star is heading to trial on charges that he raped his daughter

Retired Maj. Gen. James Grazioplene is scheduled for trial in April on rape and incest charges.

Response by Lt Col Bill Fletcher made Oct 18 at 2020 3:22 PM

2020-10-18T15:22:31-04:00

The likelihood of being brought back to face UCMJ punishment is enhanced if the offense was committed while the retired member was on active duty at the time of the offense.

Response by CDR Tom Davy made Nov 1 at 2020 8:19 PM

2020-11-01T20:19:26-05:00

Retired Commander here. I'll be traveling on a global walkabout and need details on working overseas. I have sent two emails to Navy Legal and have yet to hear back. My calls are unanswered. I have a few complicated questions. I'm trying to comply with the regulations and can't get directions. Ugh!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2020 3:30 PM

2020-11-09T15:30:24-05:00

what is the "why" behind this question?

Response by TSgt Gary Garvin made Nov 11 at 2020 9:03 AM

2020-11-11T09:03:48-05:00

Yes until we die

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2020 6:37 AM

2020-11-12T06:37:42-05:00

Yes they can. The case you are referring to is MSG Hennis who was brought back in AD to go through CM on charges he murdered his wife and child, several years after retirement, based on new evidence in the case. There is a movie about it and at least one book. In order for them to bring you back on AD to face UCMJ it would have to be something extreme for them to justify spending the money it would take to go through all the logistics of it.

Response by PO1 David Shepardson made Nov 12 at 2020 9:55 AM

2020-11-12T09:55:15-05:00

yes they are.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Nov 14 at 2020 6:54 AM

2020-11-14T06:54:16-05:00

Before I retired from the Army in 2008, I received a briefing about this. Yes, retirees are still subject to the UCMJ. This is based upon the fact that retirees receive their pensions(pay).

Response by SGT Michael Hanks made Nov 14 at 2020 4:22 PM

2020-11-14T16:22:26-05:00

I remember there was a retired SGM in Germany who worked at a foreign car dealership. He helped active duty soldiers defraud the government into shipping cars to the he sold to them to the U.S. Once caught he received an Article 15.

Response by SFC Peter Ironrope made Nov 16 at 2020 11:06 AM

2020-11-16T11:06:27-05:00

A retired service member really has to screw up pretty bad to be brought out of retirement to face UCMJ. I have to say this is a weird question to post and I wonder why this question would come up and the person who posted it would be so concerned??? Strange!!!

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Nov 18 at 2020 8:26 AM

2020-11-18T08:26:55-05:00

Sure wish something like that applied to politicians.
:(

Response by PO1 Don Robbin S made Nov 18 at 2020 11:01 PM

2020-11-18T23:01:35-05:00

While serving at Subic Bay there was a retired Radioman Chief who was stealing classified message from the message center. NIS put a camera above the copier that the chief used. The agents sat down in my space watching him and documenting everything the chief did. They were afraid that if they arrested the chief that his wife would get him put on legal hold. What they did was get the Navy to put him back on active duty the moment they arrested him. When they did arrest him, he was taken straight to Cubi Point where he was flown to Guam. If I remember correctly, he got busted down to E-1, loss his retirement, and got 25 years for his efforts..

Response by MSG Pat SingR made Dec 17 at 2020 11:42 AM

2020-12-17T11:42:17-05:00

This is interesting, according to Article 2 of UCMJ.
4. Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay.
5. Retired members of a reserve component who are receiving hospitalization from an armed force.
If retired members of a reserve component who are NOT receiving hospitalization from an armed force, will not be subject to UCMJ then?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 31 at 2020 8:26 AM

2020-12-31T08:26:05-05:00

https://www.google.com/amp/s/http://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/02/22/supreme-court-retirees-can-be-court-martialed-crimes-committed-after-service.html/amp

Supreme Court: Retirees Can Be Court-Martialed for Crimes Committed After Service

In denying a recent petition, the U.S. Supreme Court preserves UCMJ jurisdiction for retirees.

Response by MSG Eddie N. made Feb 12 at 2021 8:56 AM

2021-02-12T08:56:16-05:00

"Retired members of a regular component of the armed forces who are entitled to pay"
How does this apply to retired members of the National Guard that were Active Guard Reserves (AGR)?

Response by FN Stewart Holden made Feb 12 at 2021 9:24 AM

2021-02-12T09:24:23-05:00

I mentioned on Facebook once that I wanted to try CBD and instantly got this email from Humana. I’ve been retired for many years now too. Please see pic

Response by CW3 Michael Hess made Feb 13 at 2021 5:34 PM

2021-02-13T17:34:15-05:00

There is a difference between “regular army” RA, and “army of the United States” AUS. I think the UCMJ can be applied to retired RA personnel and not so much AUS personnel. I’m sure I don’t know everything about this subject — maybe lawyer can weigh in on this.

Response by MSgt Robert Brady made Feb 14 at 2021 5:32 PM

2021-02-14T17:32:36-05:00

Yes, we can be tried under the UCMJ. The only purpose would be to strip us of our retired rank and take away our pension. A person who collects a pension from the Military is never truly retired. We can be recalled at any time. For whatever rreason the govt. so chooses.

Response by CAPT Ken McManaman made Feb 14 at 2021 9:40 PM

2021-02-14T21:40:37-05:00

All retirees receiving pay are subject to recall and trial under the UCMJ

Response by SSG Eric Blue made Feb 15 at 2021 1:19 PM

2021-02-15T13:19:52-05:00

You said the same thing I read, sir. I haven't actually seen it happen, though.

Response by SSG James Stodola made Sep 22 at 2022 11:19 AM

2022-09-22T11:19:05-04:00

This is something that would require an attorney consultation as it varies not only by service branch, but by the number of years involved nd by the way in which you retired, i.e. from active duty or from a reserve status. The Navy and Marine Corps follow different requirements than does the Army, Air Force, and Coast Guard in terms of service time required and what status to become part of. As a basic understanding that I have found, if you retired from active duty status with more than 20 years, you are subject to the UCMJ for life. If you retired form active duty with less than 20 years you may not be subject to it. If you retired from a reservist status, with 20 years, or with less than 20 years you are not subject to it. If you were in the Navy or Marine Corps, and you retired with more than 20 years, but less than 30 years, (which seems to be their requirement for full retirement), you are moved to what they call the Fleet Reserve, for Navy, and Fleet Marine Reserve, for Marines, and therein can be called back to active duty and that would make you subject to the UCMJ. Now you are starting to see the confusing nature of this issue. I personally retired from reserve status with 34 years of credit, so I am not subject to it. But, as I said from the start, consult an attorney familiar with military law to be sure. If I am incorrect with any of this fell free to offer corrections, as I am interested in this matter and am still looking into it.