Are Secret Security clearances too easily granted?

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 18:15:28 -0500

Another instance of betrayal from someone with insider knowledge.....are our highest security clearances too easy to achieve?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/06/saudi-born-us-naval-engineer-allegedly-gave-undercover-agent-info-on-how-to/

I assume there will be a review of the investigative process for granting a Secret Clearance. Were the sensitive documents stored properly and did he have a need-to-know before being able to review the schematics - I'd assume he'd have to have a Top Secret clearance to get access to sensitive documents.

Your thoughts: clearance too easy to get, punishment recommendations (assuming he is found guilty)?

Saudi-born US naval engineer allegedly gave undercover agent info on how to sink carrier

A Naval engineer is facing charges that he gave an FBI undercover agent posing as an Egyptian intelligence officer secret documents about the new Gerald R. Ford aircraft carrier while discussing how to sink the vessel with a missile.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 6:36 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 18:36:37 -0500

CSM Michael J. Uhlig. History is replete among US, Allied, and Adversary nations with gross stupidity and outright traitors at all clearance levels. Specialized clearances with compartmentalization, serialized, and audited containment and disclosure procedures help to highlight the sensitivity and personal / national consequences of unauthorized disclosure. In the end active counterintelligence programs with frequent human / technical red team penetration testing, personnel and financial monitoring, and functional magnetic resonance imaging / polygraph examinations provide best available defenses. Junior personnel and interim clearances are higher risk. Obvious over classification, failure to declassify on a reasonable schedule, and classification for inappropriate reasons impair the vigilance of key personnel. But, keep in mind the stringency of these measures must be carefully balanced against the financial and operational costs. Warmest Regards, Sandy

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 6:51 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 18:51:20 -0500

Yes, CSM Michael J. Uhlig, I think SECRET clearances are too easy to get. I believe a SECRET clearance is essentially based on records checks (see this FAQ, which is interesting: https://www.clearancejobs.com/security_clearance_faq.pdf).

Punishment? Well, I think if he got life without parole, that might slow future spies down a bit, or at least make them think twice.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2014 9:00 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 21:00:36 -0500

That's interesting because for my secret clearance, it took 6 months and I practically had to give blood and DNA to get mine. It surprises me that they seem too easy get in the military and DoD I would think it would be harder.

Response by SPC David S. made Dec 6 at 2014 9:19 PM

SPC David S. — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 21:19:38 -0500

Yes, Also when I was in NG way to much secret stuff laying around. Nothing major but none the less it should have been treated as such.

Response by SGT Kyle Taylor made Dec 6 at 2014 9:22 PM

SGT Kyle Taylor — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 21:22:21 -0500

YES!! I dont want to go to far into this but it is way to easy for guys that want to get them to get. To many ways to get around the system to get a clearance also. I will not put it out here but if they want the highest clearance all it takes is a little knowledge in what MOS needs them and you can get it.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Dec 6 at 2014 11:04 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 06 Dec 2014 23:04:43 -0500

If convicted, his punishment punishment should be life in prison without parole. He should remain in prison until he dies of natural cause or until he gets shanked by another prisoner. This man probably still holds classified information on how to sink out Navy ships.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 7 at 2014 2:58 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 02:58:21 -0500

There is already a review process in place for clearances after the Navy Shipyard shooting a few years back....at least there was supposed to be a review. Perhaps this will merit another look at the system.

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Dec 7 at 2014 2:46 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 14:46:34 -0500

Stories like this always make me wonder about the line of entrapment vs. undercover investigation. Would he have sought to steal and sell secrets if the FBI hadn't asked? Who knows, I assume that's part of what the investigation and trial try to ferret out.

Anyway, recommended charges? Treason.

Article III US Constitution
Section 3.
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

Punishment if convicted? To be determined by congress (but not to include punishing his kids). My recommendation? Hard labor in a military prison until his knowledge of Naval Systems becomes irrelevant say about 25 years or so. Then strip him of citizenship, deport him back to either country of origin or to the country he thought he was aiding in his espionage (Egypt.)

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Dec 7 at 2014 4:20 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sun, 07 Dec 2014 16:20:49 -0500

Always a good question. Know in my time it was a giant pain in the ass that I had to go thru every 5 years or so. NIS Crawling Up my Rectum, Questionaire for hell and the first one they even send some Federal Officers to Tail me while home on Leave the First time (That was Actually Fun taking them on some wild goose chases). My main beef and question is how sloppy it has gotten since it was "Privatized". Contracted Out. I know it is the Mantra of some that it is always better to have it done by Private Companies but I think the Government did a better job of doing it in my day than now.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2014 6:48 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 08 Dec 2014 06:48:32 -0500

I would have to disagree only because of personal experience. For me, with no issues coming in to the military, my security clearance took a bit longer than most of my peers and then ended up getting lost on the way to my first duty station keeping me locked out of information I needed to do my job for 6 months.

In addition, at my second duty station one of my fellow Airman explained to me why he wasn't a linguist and had been placed into our career field despite his intelligence level. His parents were Saudi born with little to no connections to the country and I believe he had only ever been to the country once. I feel our clearances are given when seen fit but when you have information, you have those who want to try and get it, illegally if need be.

Response by SSG William Rhodes made Mar 27 at 2015 2:11 PM

SSG William Rhodes — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 14:11:23 -0400

I don't think they are easily granted but I do believe that sometimes they are granted to individuals and soldiers who either don't have any loyalty, lack the responsibility and understanding the importance of infomation in these documents, for an example they are granted to some soldiers like that PFC that leak documents to wikileakes. In my opinion giving security clearance should not only be judge by your credit history.

Response by SGT Patrick Soule made Mar 27 at 2015 10:54 PM

SGT Patrick Soule — Fri, 27 Mar 2015 22:54:14 -0400

Are Secret Security clearances too easily granted? That was your original headline question. The answer is probably. However, Secret is not that high of a clearance. As to the higher ones, TS and above, probably not. I can still recall my neighbors and school mates asking me later what I had done wrong... "why was the FBI and some other agency around asking questions about you"? I can remember those forms and the initial interview as well as the follow-ups and the every several year rechecks. If all the TS and above were and still are like that, then my answer is no, not too easy for the TS and above.

The real issue becomes do we actually punish those that reveal classified information to do harm to our country. I word it that way because there are those who have revealed "classified" information that was classified only to keep the ones classifying it from going to prison (try to say that 3 times fast). Those who reveal with intent, may their skin be oh so pale when they exit prison (from lack of exposure to the sun).

Those that reveal to expose an actual Felony that is not backed by Presidential Pardon in advance, Whistle Blower, should be protected. Probably wouldn't happen (protection), but nothing ventured nothing gained. Assuming (ya, that word) that you are an American Patriot, what are your ethics? Did you violate them by the revelation? No? I'm feeling better about it. Yes? I'm not feeling it for ya.

Response by Sgt Jerami Ballard made May 21 at 2015 12:57 AM

Sgt Jerami Ballard — Thu, 21 May 2015 00:57:37 -0400

I believe nowadays you are only granted secret, ts, and tscpi clearance if you explicitly require it for your job. I recall talking with an Intel Lt. Col who mentioned that typically when you sign up and do the interviews and stuff, they are determining your eligibility which is recorded in your JPAS. Your command has to pursue the actual clearance in relation to your needs, which is very easy if you were already eligible for the level you required. Your eligibility is just like your clearance (time frame, requirements, et al) but you can't actually handle the materials or gain access to the specific areas until you receive the clearance.