Are Senior NCOs of today glorified social workers?

2014-10-20T15:51:08-04:00

We are soldiers. We also have a vast array of additional duties and responsibilities.
We take care of our soldiers and their families. We get the call at 3 am in the morning when Pvt Snuffy is arrested. Or when Sgt. Willie and her husband get in a fight. Or when....well, you get the point. Is it too much or too little?

Response by SGT Richard H. made Oct 20 at 2014 3:53 PM

2014-10-20T15:53:34-04:00

I don't think that's just today...we were in the 80's & 90's too!

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Oct 20 at 2014 4:41 PM

2014-10-20T16:41:25-04:00

Military leaders are concerned for the welfare of their personnel 24/7/365, unlike civilian counterparts, who, for the most part, simply don't care what happens off-duty (unless security clearances are impacted).

Having said that, I don't think there is any question that the military is used to push certain social agendas, which I think is very unfortunate. As I used to tell folks, "we are the US Army, not the Salvation Army". The resilience and ability to adapt is a testament to the great NCOs and officers in the military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 8:25 AM

2014-10-21T08:25:00-04:00

Having read SGT Richard H. 's comment, and going off of my own intuition, I would say that on some level, it has been that way since the NCO creed was first penned. That being said, I would submit to you that with the every increasing sense of entitlement among the millennials currently in our ranks, it has and will continue to get worse as long as our culture and society breed apathy towards being dependent on the government and others. The "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality is gone.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Oct 21 at 2014 9:08 AM

2014-10-21T09:08:49-04:00

Anytime you have direct (or even indirect) responsibility for another, this will be an issue and as stated by SFC Private RallyPoint Member , it will, in all likelihood, continue to get worse. In a way it's much like teachers, they are expected to be crisis counselors in addition to educators. Military leaders are expected to be 'problem solvers' be it professional or personal, the key is in knowing your own limits and when/where to refer.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Oct 21 at 2014 10:14 AM

2014-10-21T10:14:11-04:00

SGM Private RallyPoint Member , COL Jean (John) F. B. . SFC Private RallyPoint Member , SGT Richard H. , MSG Wade Huffman

COL Burleson and fellow NCOs, Not much to add here. I agree with all the comments. As a leader I accepted the calls at 0 Dark Thirty, the crisis intervention, and the inventive nature of Soldiers and dependents. I do think one important factor is: while doing this, you still have to take care of your family and resolve problems of your own.

A great CSM I worked for once looked me in the eye and said "SFC Finck, you do a great job of taking care of all of your Soldiers but one." I scratched my head and he said, "you, SFC Finck, you." Selfless service is a value we all seemingly took to heart, and the accomplishments I reflect on most are with regards to taking care of Soldiers.

This brings up another discussion about youth and promotions. I found that life experience is an important addition to NCOES and technical and tactical proficiency for NCOs and SNCOs. Most of what we are discussing here needs some life experience to provide advice.

Thank you all for a great discussion so far,

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Oct 21 at 2014 10:29 AM

2014-10-21T10:29:07-04:00

I'd like to add one more thought, a quote from GEN (Ret) Colin Powell is in order here:

"The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. The have either lost confidence that you can help them or concluded that you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership."

It's a hard hitting, honest, and relevant.

Response by LTC Paul Heinlein made Oct 21 at 2014 12:39 PM

2014-10-21T12:39:29-04:00

Absolutely, all leaders in the Military are in some fashion Social Workers and that is the way the system was designed. Soldiers when they sign their contracts basically sign their lives away to the Military for a period of an enlistment and that contract, specified and implied, says the Military will take care of them. No other job/professional that I'm aware of can technically put someone in jail for not showing up for work on time or talking negatively about their boss!

Leadership in the military is a great honor and a huge task (responsibility and authority), and that is why "normally" performing well in leadership positions will get you much further than performing well in staff positions. But, Leadership positions come with a huge burden of being responsible 24/7 for those under your command and authority, to include their families. Since the Military relies on youth to maintain its edge, we have to accept that we are going to deal with the problems (more often associated with youth and lack of maturity) that come with a predominately "young force"....partying, money problems, uncontrolled emotions, lapses of judgment, family problems, etc...

Leadership, as you all know, includes another huge burden know as decision making...sometimes those decisions knowingly put Soldiers' lives at risk (in the case of deployments) to get the mission complete, but more often than that is the decision on what Soldiers (too include families) are a mission/combat multiplier for the unit and which are not. As a leader, outside of the Soldiers that got injured or died under my watch, the things that haunt me are the Soldiers that I had to push out of the units I have been, in that, what they added to the unit in preparedness/ readiness did not exceed what the time and effort of the leadership to fix their problems subtracted from the unit’s preparedness/ readiness. In my particular case, when a Soldier’s hit the minus column (and all possible had been done to make them a value added to the unit) that is when I would make the move to separate that Soldier; regardless how I felt about them personally (many were great Americans…but at that time in their lives they had too many issues that could not be overcome).

I recently had an interview for a civilian leadership position and one of the questions I was asked was “what I thought my greatest failure was?” I’m sure they were expecting something along the lines of “some job I did not get or something bad that had happened to me”, but my response was the Soldiers I had to chapter out of the army for misconduct and such; their failure to successfully adapt to military life was also in part a failure in my leadership.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Sep 24 at 2015 8:31 PM

2015-09-24T20:31:45-04:00

Team,

I would be "slapping in the face" the score or so of NCO's that mentored/tormented me in my "formative years" if I would even suggest that we were social workers. They were not.. and I wasn't either... I just tried to do what they did for me an point those I'm charged with caring for (sometimes kicking and screaming) on the right azimuth for help... and that included a number of officers O1 to O5... and some sagely advice to a COL going through a bad separation when I was a MSG... and one of his SNCO.

What has changed is society... and so have we had to change as a military. Oh, and it will change again... sure as shit. But oh well... no one is holding a gun to head to stay... if you don't want to be a leader anymore... then leave.

Oh, and some of us civilians... still maintain the standard today or 24/7.

We stay at the hospital when one of the soldiers or civilians gets hurt. We make sure the family is ok and has what they need to the best of our ability... and mobilize the apparatus when we run into a challenge. We make sure that person, soldier or civilian, gets the help they need when going through a tough spot... when a retired LTC that works for you comes in and says they have cancer... and you simply sit there and talk about what's next and what can be done to support them... and then follow up every week to see how treatments are progressing. Donating a day or two of leave to a good employ that due to illness has none. Lining the streets of Leavenworth when a fallen hero returns home... and yes... going to a funeral when a hero of wars long past fade away... because they are your family.

Last point.... the real lessons that soldiers/'civilians remember aren't the ones where everything was "peaches and cream" they remember the bad stuff that happened to them and the soldiers/civilians in the unit. You are remember and measured on how you stood up to the task... and got them through it. That you were there! I was never a social worker... I was a father, a older brother... I was family. I'll continue to be until SKY 6 calls me forward.

Peace out!