Are snipers cowardly?

PO2 Kevin LaCroix — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:50:56 -0500

Recent comments by Film makers Michael Moore and Seth Rogen have rattled this timeless hornets nest.

For my own position, warriors are warriors regardless of their job. Our job are to kill or support those that do. War sucks, at best.

The above mentioned men have themselves been called cowards for stating their positions. I counter that they are not cowards for standing up for their beliefs.

Thoughts and opinions on the subject.

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Jan 20 at 2015 8:59 AM

PO2 Kevin LaCroix — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 08:59:54 -0500

I do not believe snipers are cowards. I believe anyone that serves honorably is both brave and selfless. Snipers are just another tools in the arsenal. These men know that their main purpose is to commit premeditated homocide. From slings, to arrows to the Sharps through todays modern longarms, distance warriors have been part of the face of war for thousands of years.

Response by SSG Christopher Parrish made Jan 20 at 2015 9:01 AM

SSG Christopher Parrish — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 09:01:12 -0500

They may not get as up close and personal as a door kicker, but think about their job...

Go out in a team of 2 to 5, inside enemy territory, and either gather intel or take out a target, and try not to get killed.

Seems pretty hard core to me.

Response by PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith made Jan 20 at 2015 11:06 AM

PO3 Brendan "Smitty" Smith — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 11:06:54 -0500

From what I know of the profession (which admittedly is not a whole hell of a lot. I was cyrpto geek after all) Snipers and their spotters rely on range and stealth because, if their location is discovered, they could get overrun pretty fast. To me, that's not cowardice, that's being smart.

Also, cowardly compared to what? Guys who plant IEDs? Men who behead unarmed journalists? Men who cut of the clitoris of young women so they won't feel pleasure during sex and not be tempted to cheat on their husband/owner? Men who would hide behind women and children in front of military targets to protect them from bombings. Men who would use those same women and children as suicide bombers? You get the idea.

Look, I get it. Soft men who make films don't like the reality of war. It sickens them, it frightens them and that's okay. That's why we have an all volunteer force. We don't like it either but, we do the things they can't imagine doing so they don't have to. All I ask is that they remember what the other side actually does and don't judge us for doing the job you wouldn't or couldn't do yourself.

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2015 12:13 PM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 12:13:38 -0500

PO2 Kevin LaCroix No snipers are not cowards. I would say quite the opposite. I think it takes guts to carry out an order to kill someone on orders and then to live with that and compartmentalize that and what not mentally and emotionally. I think it takes a certain intestinal fortitude and strength of character. No one is perfect, war is hell as they say. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Especially Michael Moore and Seth Rogen.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Jan 20 at 2015 12:35 PM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 12:35:53 -0500

- Are snipers cowardly? Absolutely not.
- Love hearing from Hollywood "elites" like Michael Moore and Seth Rogen who have no clue what they are talking about including but not limited to lack of education, information, and experience.
- Are Moore and Rogen cowards? From the perspective of denigrating the reputation of a deceased Soldier rather than engaging when he was alive, absolutely cowards. From the perspective of standing up for their beliefs, not cowards but definitely idiots since I am sure they both lack the ability to have an educated an informed dialogue with a person who disagrees with them and can back up their comments with concrete examples, historical perspective, and a basic understanding of how to defend a nation.
- Great response by Dakota Meyer (Medal of Honor receipient) on social media.
- Assumption on my part but I think both Moore and Rogen are anti war which is fine but they seem to lack the ability to separate the war from the warrior. This is despite their recent efforts to walk back their initial comments.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jan 20 at 2015 3:54 PM

SGT Richard H. — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:54:55 -0500

Here is a short list of things I would rather do than allow Michael Moore to guide my morality:

-Bathe in Hydrochloric acid.
-Pull an abscessed tooth from an un-anesthetized crocodile.
-Dive headfirst from the Sears Tower using only a thumbtack as a landing pad.
-Date Rosie O'Donnell

Get the picture?

Response by SGT Jim Z. made Jan 20 at 2015 3:56 PM

SGT Jim Z. — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:56:48 -0500

NO Snipers are not cowards and these two windbags can have their opinion however, we would not be having this discussion if we did not feed the trolls they are.

Response by SSG D. Linson made Jan 20 at 2015 4:06 PM

SSG D. Linson — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:06:51 -0500

As I understand it, Seth Rogan merely stated that a certain sequence in the movie reminded him of a sequence in another film. So there's no "there" there.

And Michael Moore is an ass. So, nothing Earth-shattering there either.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jan 20 at 2015 4:23 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:23:46 -0500

My answer PO2 Kevin LaCroix, is no.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2015 4:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:28:04 -0500

No, snipers are not cowardly. Anyone who has the audacity, tenacity, and intestinal fortitute to go behind enemy lines and do what they do is by no means a coward.

Response by PO2 Kevin LaCroix made Jan 20 at 2015 4:42 PM

PO2 Kevin LaCroix — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:42:49 -0500

I would like to thank everyone that commented, and thank you for your service.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Jan 20 at 2015 5:28 PM

SGT James Elphick — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:28:20 -0500

So I'm going to go out on a limb here, and at the risk of getting down votes, and point out that Seth Rogen did not call Chris Kyle a "coward", it was Michael Moore who said that, and then poorly back-pedaled saying he never mentioned Kyle by name. Moore, in the words of Trey Parker and Matt Stone, is a giant socialist weasel. However, I am going to stand up and say that I can see Rogen's point. He said that "American Sniper" a movie about a revered sniper with a high kill count 'reminded' him of a scene in "Inglorious Basterds" that was similar. With all of the hero worship going on these days it is a dangerous precedent to assume that a hero is beyond reproach simply for being a hero. Especially one who has been found guilty of lying in court and most likely lied about 2 other incidents. (Not that it happened but if you really support him gunning down looters, American citizens, in New Orleans we have a different problem.)

Sure, Michael Moore's words are cowardly but the more we all talk about it the more he gets what he wants, relevance. I however do not think that Seth Rogen deserves to be lumped in with that lump of lard. He made an honest observation and everyone's knee-jerk reaction is to freak out that he must be anti-American. Though "American Sniper" may not have been commissioned by the government it still comes across as 'Murc'n propaganda, even if it is an accurate portrayal of Kyle's exploits and what it is like to go to war.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jan 20 at 2015 5:40 PM

SGT Richard H. — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:40:41 -0500

Here's a nice response to "crisco sweating" Michael Moore from a former SF sniper:

http://www.tpnn.com/2015/01/20/green-beret-sniper-pens-awesome-letter-to-crisco-sweating-michael-moore/#.VL7HE5at-Nk.facebook

Response by PVT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2015 5:53 PM

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 17:53:45 -0500

if snipers are cowards then guerilla warfare in its entirety is cowardice as well. I suppose we should all march in rows to meet an enemy force....

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2015 6:32 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:32:44 -0500

Yes... But no. One could argue that in the overall scheme of things, that employing snipers is cowardly, but sorry no, actually being a sniper is by no means cowardly, and in the way war is fought, a well placed sniper can prevent a ton of collateral damage and adds a surgical element that is absolutely required. If anything is cowardly, it is using a nuclear weapon on a city to kill ten people. Snipers do the exact opposite of that... Onto these two celebs, look, if you are really offended by what Rogen tweeted, c'mon. Just c'mon. He was making a joke, it wasn't his intention to compare the film to nazi propaganda- I know you gents MUST have heard a joke before, especially one that with the wrong crowd listening could have been taken way, way the hell out of context. All it takes is some thick skin and a sense of humor. And with Moore's comment- you seem surprised that the guy who belittled and harassed an elderly man with Alzheimer's says something that is going to piss off vets. Michael Moore is basically your overweight sister in law that is begging for attention no matter what the cost. Don't encourage. So to answer the question, no, snipers aren't cowardly, Micheal Moore is Stupid, people shocked by what he said must not know who he is, and Seth Rogen needs a better audience (I personally thought it was funny, not haha funny but short snicker funny). On a bright note, the world is still spinning, I can put food on the table, have a six pack, and gas is cheap.

Response by SPC Christopher Morehouse made Jan 20 at 2015 6:36 PM

SPC Christopher Morehouse — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:36:52 -0500

Just as cowardly as a B-2 pilot, or artilleryman, mortarman, or I dunno, take your pick.

This idea is as ridiculous as the man that spiddled it out.

Response by MSgt Timothy Johnson made Jan 20 at 2015 6:44 PM

MSgt Timothy Johnson — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:44:08 -0500

Moore? Never did like him. He finds things that are not really hidden and then goes nuts on it. There are so many people in the world he has no problem getting the cray people to follow him for a while. Rogen? I dont care if I see any of his future movies. Apparently he is from Canada but because of his dad I think, he is also an American citizen. He said he loved it because America is a fantastic place and he gets more work or credibility or what ever. Then he makes these comments.

Snipers are, of course, NOT cowards. That word is reserved for people who walk away from their duties, AWOL or deserting etc.... So other than talking about these two dorks the question is invalid....

Response by SrA Marc Haynes made Jan 20 at 2015 10:39 PM

SrA Marc Haynes — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 22:39:32 -0500

Personally I think Jesse Ventura (Jesse Vulture) is the biggest coward for sueing Chris Kyle's widow. That however is a different debate,

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Jan 20 at 2015 10:59 PM

SA Harold Hansmann — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 22:59:50 -0500

Given the chance I would prefer being the sniper. Oh, wait, when hunting, I am the sniper. I am all for what saves our troops and kills theirs.
"Live for your country and let them die for theirs."

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 24 at 2015 5:02 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 17:02:14 -0500

Snipers are not cowards. They have a job to do. An attack helicopter with the capability to destroy its human target who is placing an IED will never have an idea of what killed him. One moment is alive and the next moment is Saint Peter is choking him out at the pearly gates. Is the pilot a coward? Better yet, are drone pilots cowards? I think not. We have the technology to reach out in the darkness or across several hundred meters to terminate the enemy from hurting us in the future.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Jan 24 at 2015 5:04 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 17:04:05 -0500

Do we have a uniform that will fit Michael Moore? Which branch will take him on a ride that invites the Grim Reaper to tag along. He and Rogen needs to feel our pain and stop being cowards themselves.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 24 at 2015 5:13 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 Jan 2015 17:13:16 -0500

I don't know the context because I try to avoid most media dribble. If those idiots are implying cowardly behavior because they do their action from a great distance, then those same idiots might as well call out others such as drone fighters, bombers (sea or air launched), mortar operators, 203 grenadiers, even cavalry cause harm from a distance.

Idiots, I say!

Response by 1SG Jack Crutcher made Jan 14 at 2016 7:50 PM

1SG Jack Crutcher — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 19:50:51 -0500

If you think that snipers are cowards then you probably have not taken any sniper training or have any idea of what a sniper go through or what its like to be a sniper. It's not like on TV, they don't depend on the security from outside sources or do they have the luxury of firing one round and taking their time packing up all their equipment and moving out. If you think its easy take the time to talk to a sniper team or better yet take on the job yourself and see what its really kike.

Response by Sgt William Themann made Jan 14 at 2016 9:21 PM

Sgt William Themann — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 21:21:23 -0500

Moore and Rogen are so sold on the notion that their opinion matters. They draw equivalence between their "contribution" to society and that of heroes like Chris Kyle. They have an overinflated sense of self worth: their opinions do not trump the actions of our heroes. Let them put their ass on the line to protect the freedoms they enjoy!

Response by SGT Justin Anderson made Jan 15 at 2016 12:34 AM

SGT Justin Anderson — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 00:34:41 -0500

Either way snipers are not cowards and some of the most down earth and humble guys in the business. It's one thing to be shooting at someone you can barely see with a platoon returning fire, but it's another to do it through a scope operating in a small team. Well trained warriors and some of the best war fighters in the field.

Response by SPC Hoyland Brian made Jan 15 at 2016 5:01 AM

SPC Hoyland Brian — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 05:01:19 -0500

As far as I know Moore and Rogan have never served in the Armed Forces so I don't take their opinions about courage seriously. however, as a consumer of entertainment I think they should work a little harder on their craft because their films suck!

Response by SGT Charles Tittl made Jan 15 at 2016 3:12 PM

SGT Charles Tittl — Fri, 15 Jan 2016 15:12:18 -0500

I'd sure like to see either of these fat tubs of goo say that to a snipers face. The ensuing reaction would be hilarious!