Are there specific regulations on sleep? Anything in regards to flight ops?

2015-08-01T04:46:41-04:00

When you are out to sea in the Navy you work 7 days a week as a ABE. In the Navy you work until flight ops is over. After flight ops there is maintenance to be done and during man downs with flight ops we have to make sure our spaces are intact an ABE. During a deployment Sailors will probably get 3 to 4 hours of sleep on a good day . How is a Sailor able to keep doing his or her job 100% daily with such little sleep?

Response by TSgt David L. made Aug 1 at 2015 6:59 AM

2015-08-01T06:59:24-04:00

I was not aware of that. I know folks hot bunked it but not that they didn't get to sleep. Y'all need a better union like the Air Force has! :D LOL

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Aug 1 at 2015 7:47 AM

2015-08-01T07:47:37-04:00

There are studies that show that (continued) lack of sleep is just as dangerous as intoxication when it comes to performance. There's a reason we have mandatory downtime for pilots, and truck drivers (civilians).

This is not to say we cannot "burst" high tempo, but it's not sustainable. We can only do it for so long before it becomes dangerous for us, and those around us.

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made Aug 1 at 2015 7:52 AM

2015-08-01T07:52:45-04:00

You won't like the answer but you get used to it. It's part of the job. Once you've been in for a while you'll find some of us old timers who were port and report (we were our own watch relief) because there wasn't anyone to relieve us.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Aug 1 at 2015 9:09 AM

2015-08-01T09:09:05-04:00

Unfortunately there are not any real regulations for regular fleet Sailors (to my knowledge anyway). It sucks but that's the nature of the beast.

Continued lack of sleep has been proven to contribute, if not cause, sleep apnea. I have it myself from 20 years of lack of sleep.

Response by CDR Terry Boles made Aug 1 at 2015 10:51 AM

2015-08-01T10:51:42-04:00

I too am not aware of any regs governing sleep. Just like other AFSCs, MOS, and Rates that have high tempos that afford little rest or sleep one adapts. My at sea time we probably slept 4-5 hours a day and that was interrupted sleep, but come inport time it was all maintenance and sleep was better albeit was in a berthing compartment with 45+ others.

Hang in there, you are already adapting and stay alert and be safe.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Aug 1 at 2015 1:23 PM

2015-08-01T13:23:42-04:00

The short answer is that you just deal with it. It sucks, sure. But it's been that way since the inception of carriers, and isn't likely to change. You're not alone, at least.

Response by CPO Gregory Smith made Aug 1 at 2015 9:55 PM

2015-08-01T21:55:24-04:00

It's kind of funny really, the Navy has regulations for sleep for folks on training status but once you hit the fleet that goes out the window. I guess we don't train how we fight.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Aug 2 at 2015 1:30 AM

2015-08-02T01:30:56-04:00

AN Taylor, I hear you. Many a time, I had to really fight to stay awake on Midwatch on the Bridge or down in EOS (the bridge was way worse because it was dark up there...).

You need to do as much as you can to keep up your energy. Exercise when you can (I know that hauling planes is hard work, but it's not cardio). Eat properly. Carbs give you a short/quick burst of energy, but when they're gone, you crash. In addition, don't use tobacco - it's stimulant effects are very toxic. Coffee is the old sailor's crutch of course, but you need to watch the Red Bulls -they have way more caffeine along with other ingredients, all of which are stimulants. Too much in the way of stimulants will leave you jittery, unable to focus, and unable to sleep eventually when you can.

Combat underway days can be extremely grueling, especially for a non-rate as yourself, since not only do you have your operations, maintenance and training and drills, you also have to strike a rate, do the advancement courses, work on your various PQS and get your EAWS or ESWS pin. It's not for the faint of heart....

When you can get to bed, don't play with your PS4, your iPad or whatever. Screen time keeps you from sleeping. Get in bed, read a little from a book (old school) and then go to sleep. Even if you just lie in the dark with your eyes closed it's better than nothing.

If you start to experience extreme fatigue symptoms, go to sick bay...

Response by PO2 Frances Smart made Aug 4 at 2015 3:33 PM

2015-08-04T15:33:11-04:00

It used to be that you were guaranteed one hour of undisturbed "rest" per day. Not sure if that still holds, with all that we now know about sleep deprivation. I do hope they are treating the new ranks better than they treated us about food and sleep.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2015 4:28 PM

2015-08-04T16:28:13-04:00

All I can say is sleep deprivation comes with the naval lifestyle but make sure you make it a point to your chain of command when you start to feel like you are entering into a dangerous state. Your chain of command will make all changes necessary to bring you back to normal as long as there is no evidence of you wasting your rest/sleep time with video games and such.

Keep up the press!

Response by PO1 John Juarez made Aug 4 at 2015 7:34 PM

2015-08-04T19:34:24-04:00

It ain't just ABE's on carriers. Many ratings experience that underway. Try being an HT and having two carriers and all their attending ships pull into Subic for a 10 availability! Went about 4.5 days with about 6 hrs total and that was sleeping on deckplates while waiting on weld inspectors to show up. Never saw my ship in those 4.5 days. We'd finish a job and call the ship, they'd tell us where to go next and someone would be waiting on the pier with all the parts and pieces we needed for the next job. And some of those welding jobs were level one/x-rayed welding jobs!! Lived on Coca-cola, snickers, and Marlboro's. So yes it sucks, but just pull up your big boy pants!any have done it, and many yet to come will also do it!

Response by PO1 John Juarez made Aug 4 at 2015 9:23 PM

2015-08-04T21:23:13-04:00

You could always have an informal chat with the ships safety officer and express your concerns. And you could always contac the Naval Safety Center for info. I would be cautious about the manner in which you approach this so as not to appear rebellious or as an instigator.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2015 10:11 PM

2015-08-04T22:11:16-04:00

If you are truly getting 3-4 hours per day consistently because you are working the rest of the time, something is wrong. Now if you are PTing 5 hours a day or something then that's on you, but I'm assuming that's not the case.

This needs to be brought up to a supervisor and in the event the supervisor is the one making you work 20-21 hour days, to a level above him.

To answer your question you won't be operating at 100% for even 2 days much less a deployment with that amount of sleep.

Response by PO2 Patrick Ladley made Aug 5 at 2015 11:56 AM

2015-08-05T11:56:11-04:00

You get used to getting little sleep on deployment, fact is, the work needs to get done. However, you might check the corresponding NATOPS manual, 00-80T-105, for sleep requirements. Navy wide though, they're supposed to try and get you as close to 8 hours of sleep a night as possible. Key words there are "as possible." Best of luck going forward!

Response by PO1 Cameron Rhyne made Aug 5 at 2015 4:38 PM

2015-08-05T16:38:41-04:00

I can't speak for the rest of the naval community, but the nuclear sailors were often hurting for sleep. 4 section watch duty at sea, combined with plenty of maintenance, training and drills that were always from 2-6 am, which made it hard enough to get a decent amount of sleep. I fell asleep on my feet more then once. In port, it wasn't uncommon to stand 6 hours on 6 hours off for a 24 hour duty day. One of the reason that I decided to go recruiting rather then another deployment and then got out from there.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 12:23 AM

2015-08-06T00:23:41-04:00

The Navy doesn't care about your sleep and like all things in the Navy, if it makes since to do things one way the Navy will choose to do it the harder and exact opposite way. For example, doing a man over board drill in shark infested waters and 8ft swells after there was a meeting with the ship board training team that not only brought up these issues but advised against putting a swimmer in the water at all. Your personal well being is not important to anyone but you especially when those in charge of you have never performed the duties in which they are in charge of tasking you with.
SUCK IT UP, DRIVE ON. at least were getting paid

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 9:05 AM

2015-08-06T09:05:52-04:00

If there was something, one of the many ABEs who have come before you would have found it by now.

Underway and duty days are notorious for being significantly sleepless. I think the Navy is trying to find ways to get away from the culture, but as long as we are doing more with less, I don't see it getting much better anytime soon.

Find the people that seem to do better than others without much sleep and see what they do. Doesn't work for everyone, but a 30 minute nap can work wonders. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do and keep your eye in the prize: that port visit when you can get an actual day off and sleep.

Response by SA Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 5:53 PM

2015-08-06T17:53:37-04:00

Now your Whites are dirty, dumbass

Response by CPO Peggy Morris made Aug 8 at 2015 12:17 AM

2015-08-08T00:17:12-04:00

There are regulations. I got $200 for two and six months probation if I screwed up I'd get reduction in rank. I'd already been up for 22 hours working on some fickle evaps in the engineroom, from watch station to berthing, shower and sleep was less than an hour. Fell asleep on a non qualified watch station during ships movement. Was back in aft steering with no actual duty, no headphones, just sitting there with two other people. Although the captain knew the story, in the end he was always the asshole that I knew he was . So I believe the regs say 3 hours, you are expendable to any asshole that doesn't follow regulations.

Response by PO2 Jeffrey Sheibels made Aug 8 at 2015 1:15 AM

2015-08-08T01:15:11-04:00

You learn to sleep when and were you can. I use to take power naps on the boat deck during flight con or when the small boat was away and I was driving it. I would also take a nap before quarters. So sleep and eat whenever you can, even if it is just closing your eyes for two minutes.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made Aug 31 at 2015 9:53 AM

2015-08-31T09:53:55-04:00

Is a hard thing to do getting a little sleep, but we need thing to take of.