Are They "ISLAMIC Terrorists" Or Just "Terrorists"?

COL Ted Mc — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 13:13:17 -0500

From "The Independent"

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/islamic-history-is-full-of-free-thinkers--but-recent-attempts-to-suppress-critical-thought-are-verging-on-the-absurd-9993777.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=*Democracy%20Lab&utm_campaign=Democracy%20Lab%20Weekly%20Brief%2C%20Jan.%2026%2C%202015

Islamic history is full of free thinkers - but recent attempts to suppress critical thought are verging on the absurd

"This has nothing to do with Islam," say the imams. "These callous and fanatic murders have nothing to do with us," say the mullahs. "Islam means peace," say the worshippers. These disclaimers, and variations on them, have been repeated countless times by Muslim commentators since the Charlie Hebdo killings. They are designed to distance people from guilt by association with those who kill and maim in the name of Islam.

But what about the sentence recently handed down to the (mildly) liberal blogger Raif Badawi in the Islamic state of Saudi Arabia? Ten years in jail, a massive fine, 1,000 lashes over 20 weeks (currently suspended because the first 50 lashes have rendered him "medically unfit")? Does this have "nothing to do with Islam"? Does the hashtag "Je suis un couteau" – referring to this week's stabbing of 11 Israelis on a bus – have "nothing to do with Islam"? Not to mention the 10 Christians killed during Charlie protests in Niger last week, or the ongoing depredations of al-Qaeda, Isis, Boko Haram, the Taliban and the Laskar Jihad of Indonesia?

The psychotic followers of these organisations all think that they are Muslims, and their Islam is based on beliefs that millions who subscribe to Wahhabism, the Saudi version of the religion – and its kin, Salafism – accept as essential ingredients of their faith. For example, that sharia, or Islamic law, is divinely ordained and immutable; that apostates and blasphemers should be killed; that women should be shrouded and confined to four walls and that men are their guardians.

This is a widespread version of Islam, made more so by modern communications; increasingly gaining followers in Europe, it can be, and is, used to justify all manner of atrocities. Yet this is an Islam of manufactured dogma which relies on neither the Koran nor the example of the Prophet Mohamed.

So where do these beliefs come from? From today's extremist leaders, of course. But also, historically, from caliphs and clerics who realised that religion could perform a very useful function: it could keep the masses in their place and ensure that power remained in the hands of a select few.

[EDITORIAL COMMENT:- It gets even more interesting once you consider the last twenty words of the C&P on a historical basis. Heck, it could even apply to "Open Mouth" radio.

Response by SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA made Jan 27 at 2015 4:50 PM

SGT Steven Eugene Kuhn MBA — Tue, 27 Jan 2015 16:50:23 -0500

This is a very tough questions:
One one side the news pounds us daily for the past years about Islamic terrorists, on the other the majority of Muslims are not extremists, and here comes the problem:
The majority who ARE NOT extreme are being passive about speaking up, why? They fear reprisals of the religion of peace in the old country.
In the end, if all heck broke loose, the majority (of the majority) ALWAYS choose religion over a "host country". Living in Europe, UK, Germany and Hungary, the growing tensions in Germany and the UK are incredibly present and not at all conducive of calm or reasoning.
Those who do speak out are few and far between and usually are those who have something to gain...Very tough issue.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 29 at 2015 3:20 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 29 Jan 2015 15:20:12 -0500

It really depends on the specific group in question.

A terrorist (singular) is someone who uses violence (or the threat of violence) against non-government targets to enact political change.

If they are doing it for nonsecular reasons, specifically Islamic, then they are an Islamic Terrorist. If they are doing it for secular reasons, then they are just a terrorist.

A "Terrorist Organization" is made up of more than one Terrorist. They recruit with a stated mission. Per the above, it will be secular or nonsecular. If the members were recruited with a nonsecular, Islamic mission, then they are Islamic Terrorists.

We can get into a "No True Scotsman" Logical Fallacy debate all day long, however the argument is very very simple at its core.

I hate to sound callous and cold, but.... if a rash of veterans start behaving erratically... the first words out of the media's mouth is Veteran Does X in Shopping Mall. News at 11.

Response by SFC Jeff L. made Jan 29 at 2015 4:46 PM

SFC Jeff L. — Thu, 29 Jan 2015 16:46:12 -0500

If you have the word "Islamic" in the name of your group, or you claim to be doing what you're doing in the name of Islam, then you are an "Islamic terrorist."

Response by CPO Terry McKenna made Jan 30 at 2015 2:41 AM

CPO Terry McKenna — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 02:41:04 -0500

Not all terrorists are muslims, but all muslims are terrorists.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2015 11:19 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 30 Jan 2015 23:19:23 -0500

COL Ted Mc I would vote just "terrorists" whose cause or "rationale" is based on their view of Islam. However, the best type of terrorists, regardless of type, is a dead terrorists.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2015 2:07 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 14:07:09 -0500

If they're claiming that they do what they do in the name of Islam, then in my book they are Islamic terrorists.

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Jan 31 at 2015 2:49 PM

SPC James Mcneil — Sat, 31 Jan 2015 14:49:41 -0500

To me? Just terrorists. I don't care who or what they believe in. I just care that they're using terror tactics to get what they want.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 2:11 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 02:11:29 -0500

They are TARGETS.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2015 9:58 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 01 Feb 2015 09:58:28 -0500

Just terrorist...We have to be careful because some of our worst terrorist are not muslim. We can't limit our thinking of what a terrorist is. I'm a Muslim, American soldier, firefighter and will lay it all on the line for my family and country and there is never any confusion on where I stand with being a Soldier and Muslim. Keeping a wider perspective if terrorism will help us to minimize the threat here and abroad. Furthermore the young man who raped my 80 year old neighbor for hours was captured, taken to jail, asked for a preacher cause he was a Christian and wanted prayer over him. The Christians I know don't hurt people.He is a terrorist no matter what religion they try to put in front of their crime.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Feb 2 at 2015 8:36 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Mon, 02 Feb 2015 20:36:11 -0500

"This has nothing to do with Islam," say the imams. "These callous and fanatic murders have nothing to do with us," say the mullahs. "Islam means peace," say the worshippers. These disclaimers, and variations on them, have been repeated countless times by Muslim commentators since the Charlie Hebdo killings. They are designed to distance people from guilt by association with those who kill and maim in the name of Islam.

And Islam also has this thing called Taqiyya, where Muslims are encouraged to lie, and be like Allah, whom they revere as the 'Greatest of Deceivers'. So why would I believe anything the so-called moderates say? Other moderates, like PM Erdogan of Turkey insist that there is no such thing as moderate Islam. Erdogan says it is insulting to say there are moderate Muslims and according to him, "Islam is Islam!"

IF they commit random acts of terror, they are terrorists; IF they are commiting acts of violence to advance the cause of Islam (as ISIS claims to be doing), AND/OR IF they say "Allah Akbar!" (as Major Hassan did at Fort Hood), they're Islamic Terrorists. If they subsidize groups identified as Islamic Terror Groups, they are no different than the people they support who are pulling the triggers.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Feb 3 at 2015 10:05 AM

MSG Floyd Williams — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 10:05:56 -0500

A terrorist is a terrorist no matter who they are or where they from, anytime a person or group of people want to destroy human lives because of anger or their so-called beliefs is evil.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 10:30 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 10:30:44 -0500

By separating the religion from the war you hinder your ability to use our most powerful weapon against the terrorists.

You can win a war two ways, by destroying your enemy or by defeating your enemy. "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. By labeling them terrorists you eliminate any posibility of spiritually challenging Islam Extremists. What we need is a Muslim movement to combat Islamic extremism through Islam. There are plenty of verse in Islam that encourage the extremists, just as there are in the Old Testament. There are also thousands that expound on charity. It is changing the mindset of the normal Muslim where peace can be found. There will never be peace in the middle east until Islam as a whole rejects the "conversion through force/sword" interpretation of Islam. Until that happens there will always be war, unfortunatley our current strategy of separating the religion from it only emboldens the extremists. Imams stating that terrorists are not Muslims only makes the problem worse. The Imams need to stop distancing themselves and start attacking the extreme doctrines.

Treating an insurgency as targets helps to create more targets, the best way to win is through idology. It took Christianity well into the 1800 before separation of church and state took a firm hold, Islam has not had that transition yet, and until they do the wars will never end. We need Positive radical Imams to overcome the tribalism and sectarian issues that keep the middle east in their version of our dark ages.

Unfortunatley this is not a quick fix solution.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2015 11:17 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Feb 2015 11:17:35 -0500

Sir, it's all just workplace violence. They're the victims.

Response by SSG Jason Hyatt made Feb 5 at 2015 1:39 PM

SSG Jason Hyatt — Thu, 05 Feb 2015 13:39:05 -0500

Any way you skin them they are Targets, not humans

Response by PO3 Robert Gunderson made Apr 9 at 2015 3:20 PM

PO3 Robert Gunderson — Thu, 09 Apr 2015 15:20:30 -0400

To me and according to the "Just War Theory" are these terrorist part of the group called Islam? Or are they using that as a convinent excuse to make a war (illeagle as it is) against the world? Using that as a measuring stick they are criminals. There may be some with legitimate gripes about things and found this was the only way to handle the situation. (which is possible.)But most in the "Extremist" category do not care in any way shape or form what their religious base represent and find ways to make their holy books read what they want and use that as an exuse to fight. The regular terrorist wil fight for any reason the group will fight but both are rebellious against the government they live in and against any and all government including the government they claim to e working for (or religious group). Remove the real problem and you will have peace.

Response by PO3 Ken Jeschonek made Apr 23 at 2015 12:46 AM

PO3 Ken Jeschonek — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 00:46:16 -0400

They are always quoting the Koran, praising Ala, calling their murderous actions justified/directed by Mohammad, and publicizing the killings of their religious rivals/enemies.
YES, they are Islamic Terrorists!

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2015 12:34 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 12:34:30 -0400

Islamic. Period!

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 23 at 2015 12:40 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Thu, 23 Apr 2015 12:40:10 -0400

A terrorist is a terrorist, regardless of race, gender, or religion.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 25 at 2015 4:21 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 25 Apr 2015 16:21:26 -0400

These radical Muslims feel no remorse in killing anyone that is not one of them to include Shia Muslims. They want a caliphate where they rule the Islamic world, and turn time back to the 700s. These Islamic terrorists need a staging area to continue their violence. They rule by the bullet, sword or knife, fire, and torture. You can't take Islam out of the notions of their religious beliefs. So yes they are Islamic Terrorists.

Response by SGT James Elphick made Apr 27 at 2015 12:59 AM

SGT James Elphick — Mon, 27 Apr 2015 00:59:23 -0400

Everyone seems to be fine with making sure "Islam" or "Islamic" are attached to these terrorist groups but my question to everyone here is, what if they were Christian?

I remember many Christians claiming that the Westboro Baptist Church were not true Christians.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Apr 29 at 2015 12:11 AM

CPT Pedro Meza — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 00:11:09 -0400

They are Infidels but no one says it, they are not Muslims because they violate the Ten Commandments and do not follow the The Five Pillars of Islam so they are not Islam. We are caught in their web of deceit and add to their belief system. This is similar to treating pedophile priest as priest and moving them around to new places. Notice the change once they started locking up these perverts and the Catholic church got sued. IS stand for the Infidel State of Murders.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 29 at 2015 11:21 AM

SrA Edward Vong — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 11:21:23 -0400

"Islamic history is full of free thinkers - but recent attempts to suppress critical thought are verging on the absurd" (Ted Mc)

You are correct about Islamic history being full of free thinkers. As a former Muslim, I have learned a lot about the past, and many great innovations actually came from Muslims. I don't know what happened anymore.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Apr 29 at 2015 12:33 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 29 Apr 2015 12:33:15 -0400

So, all the communist countries who purged their country were non communist infidels?

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made May 5 at 2015 8:28 PM

SSG Leonard Johnson — Tue, 05 May 2015 20:28:49 -0400

Islamic

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 13 at 2015 2:05 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 14:05:50 -0500

There will always be Muslim Terrorists as many poor Muslims see the decadence of the West with jealous eyes. They are angry at their station in life, want to be part of the agent of change, and want to be part of something greater than the individual.

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Dec 13 at 2015 4:15 PM

Capt Walter Miller — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 16:15:08 -0500

They should be called terrorists only. Calling them anything else plays ISIS's game. We have to play the soft side of this. Defuse the people ISIS wants to energize against us.

If you decide you are tired of picking up body parts you will adopt this idea.

Walt

Response by PV2 Scott Goodpasture made Dec 13 at 2015 4:51 PM

PV2 Scott Goodpasture — Sun, 13 Dec 2015 16:51:12 -0500

The order to kill, maim, behead, rape, crucify, cut the feet and hands on opposite sides of the infidel date back to 1400 years ago. Those orders are being printed by the millions in each fresh koran coming off the press. These are the same verses that have been gracing the pages of this benevolent peaceful koran as PC would have it. Here are some samples:
Ishaq:208 Now we bound ourselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle.
He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves
to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances."

Sura 9:121 Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them.”
Bukhari:V1B11N626 “The Prophet said, “burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer,
burning them alive inside their homes.’”

(Women)
Tabari IX:113 Treat women well for they are like domestic animals, they possess nothing themselves.
Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

Sura 48:29 - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are ruthless against the
non-muslims and merciful among themselves.

Sura 9:30 - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the
son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura 8:12 - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and
strike off every fingertip of them.

Sura 9:123 - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them
find in you hardness

Sura 5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make
mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and
their feet should be cut off on opposite sides.

Sura 8:55 Surely the filthiest of animals in Allah's sight are non-muslims.

Qur'an 8:39 "Wage war on non-muslims and kill them until they submit and the only religion is Islam."

Qur'an 9:5 "Fight and kill non-muslims wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them,
lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of jihad."

Ishaq:289 "Muhammad summoned the Muslims and said, 'This is the Quraysh caravan containing
their property. Go out and attack it. Perhaps Allah will give it to us as loot."

Qur'an 8:12 "I shall terrorize non-muslims. So cut their bodies and cut off their limbs.
because they oppose allah and His prophet"

Tabari VIII:141 "The war cry of the Muslims of Allah was: 'Kill! Kill! Kill!

Qur'an 3:150 "Soon We muslims shall strike terror into the hearts of non-muslims.

Tabari VIII:116 "So Muhammad began stealing their herds and their property bit by bit.

Ishaq:327 "Allah said, 'A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives.

Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"

Qur'an:8:67 "It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughter.

Qur'an 7:3 "Little do you remember My warning. How many civilizations have We destroyed.

Ishaq:588 "When muhammad descends on your land none of your people will be left.

Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive."

Tabari VII:11 "The Messenger of Allah went out on a raid as far as Waddan, searching for Quraysh."

Bukhari:V5B59N401 "Allah's Wrath became severe on anyone the Prophet killed in Allah's Cause."

Ishaq:297 "When the Apostle saw them he cried, 'Allah, they called me a liar. Destroy them!!!

Qur'an:4:77 "Allah, why have You ordained killing for us, why have You made war compulsory?"

B24N555 "The Prophet said, 'Allah hates you for asking too many questions.'"

Ishaq:567 "Muhammad informed Umar [the second Caliph], and he called the Prophet a liar."

Ishaq:323 "Allah and his Messenger are the best of deceivers.

Qur'an 5:119 "Allah will say: This is the day on which the Muslims will profit from Islam..."

Qur'an 5:10 "Those who reject, disbelieve and deny Our signs, proofs and verses will be companions of Hell-Fire."

Qur'an 8:39 "So fight them until there is no more non-Muslims and all submit to the religion of Allah alone.

Ishaq:595 "The Apostle said, 'Get him away from me and cut off his tongue.'"

Qur'an 2:104 "To those who don't submit there is a grievous punishment."

Qur'an 3:85 "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (Surrender), never will it be accepted.

Qur'an 3:141 "This is so that Allah may test the faithful and destroy the unbelieving non-muslims."

Bukhari:V9B87N113 "The Prophet said, 'A good dream is from Allah, and a bad dream is from Satan.'"

Ishaq:243 "the Apostle said: 'Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!'
He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes

Bukhari:V4B51N73 "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shade of swords.'"

Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe disbelievers out to the last.'"

Qur'an 80:17 "Be cursed man! He has self-destructed. From what stuff did He create him? From nutfa
(male and female semen drops) He created him and set him in due proportion."

Qur'an 5:51 "muslims!, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."

Qur'an 3:19 "Lo! religion with Allah (is) Surrender."

Tabari VII:85 "Muhammad killed many Quraysh polytheists at Badr."

Bukhari:V1B1N6 "Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country."

Tabari VII:97 "The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, 'Kill any Jew.

Bukhari:V4B52N260 "The Prophet said, 'If a Muslim discards his religion, kill him.'"

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 14 at 2015 3:18 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:18:24 -0500

Definitions:
1. Terrorism: the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.
2. Imperialism: a policy of extending a country's power and influence through diplomacy or military force.
3. Infidel: Someone who has a different faith

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Dec 14 at 2015 3:36 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Mon, 14 Dec 2015 15:36:26 -0500

Sir, it really comes down to WHY they are conducting the terrorism. Remember, terrorism is a TACTIC used to achieve a goal, typically political or ideological in nature. So whatever goal or ideology the terrorist espouses will define what kind of terrorist they are. If they were drug kingpins who used terrorism to cow their rivals and law enforcement, then we could rightly call them "Narco-terrorists". If they are using terrorism to further the case of ecology ideology, then "Eco-terrorists" certainly applies. If they are using terrorism to further the case of an Islamic ideology, the "Islamic Terrorist" applies 100%. Simply being Muslim and committing a terrorist act does not make you an Islamic terrorist if the goal you are fighting for is not related to furthering the goal of Islam.

For example, a lot of the terrorism in the Middle East back in the 60-80's were conducted by Muslims associated with Hamas and Hezbollah. But the goal was not necessarily religious in nature. Yes there was a religious component to it, but their goal was primarily a political one: Destroy Israel so we can take our land back. That is vastly different that ISIS who wants to create the caliphate so they can force others to follow their fundamentalist view of Islam. Same goes for the IRA vs UK during the Troubles. While there was definitely a religious component to the conflict, the whole fight was not about Catholics vs Protestants, it was a political issue about sovereignty and colonialism. The terrorists happened to be Catholics committing acts on Protestants (and vice versa) but it was never really about religion. It just so happened that most nationalists were Catholics and most Loyalists were Protestants.

Response by SPC Greg Carr made May 12 at 2017 12:56 PM

SPC Greg Carr — Fri, 12 May 2017 12:56:02 -0400

Relevant http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-foreign-fighters-british-european-western-dying-radicalised-islam-not-strongest-factor-cultural-a7421711.html

How "Christian" is Westboro Baptist Church?

New report confirms what we all suspected about Isis

Religion is not the strongest driving force behind thousands of foreign fighters joining Isis and other terrorist groups in Iraq and Syria, a report by US military researchers has found. A new study by the Combating Terrorism Center (CTC) at West Point revealed that the vast majority of almost 1,200 militants surveyed had no formal religious education and had not adhered to Islam for their entire lives.