Are today's military leaders actually politicians or do you think we have really principled leaders?

2015-10-11T11:41:52-04:00

Feel free to name some to recognize anyone you worked with you believe is a principled leader.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-10-11T11:53:34-04:00

I think that today's leaders are forced to be politicians at some point, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If they can effectively lead and at the same time shield their commands from politics by dealing with it themselves, then that's perfect.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Oct 11 at 2015 12:03 PM

2015-10-11T12:03:20-04:00

It seems they appear to be more politician than military strategists.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Oct 11 at 2015 12:44 PM

2015-10-11T12:44:44-04:00

Then act like politicians. If they have principles left they swallow them and follow orders from the POTUS.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Oct 11 at 2015 12:47 PM

2015-10-11T12:47:29-04:00

I've had the awesome privilege to have served with some great people, great leaders! I subscribe to the thought that we can learn from anyone, and that there aren't much for bad leaders, but moreso bad leadership styles. Here are a few:

SGT Joel Chambers (1SG, retired) was my first squad leader (1987-1988) and was completely dedicated to leading by the example he set. He always dedicated himself to developing the team and ensuring we had the values and knowledge needed to be successful.

SSG Koenieg was a great example of how not to lead. He was my Platoon Sergeant (1993-1994) and only cared only about himself and could care less about his subordinates. He was the guy that was bringing coffee to the 1SG before formation EVERY MORNING, his selfish service and lack of loyalty to the rest of us was an example I will never forget as I refuse to be anything like this individual. He eventually took the voluntary separation which netted him about $30K, this was a great investment to get rid of this toxic individual.

CSM Mark Collazos (CSM, retired) - not much I can say other than a true warrior and leader of men. Truly dedicated to leading by example and caring for his men. He put his ass on the line to save a NCO while under fire and was awarded an Army Commendation Medal ( truly believed he was deserving of more!) He earned the respect and admiration of the entire unit and I'd serve with him again anywhere.

LTC T. C. Graves (now BG) - was the BN CDR alongside CSM Collazos (above), was an outstanding command team that was always transparent and always made the decision that was best for the mission and the men of 1-36 Infantry. A true leader of Soldiers and always looking for opportunities to give Soldiers recognition, to include pushing for awarding the DSC to 1LT Jackson during OIF 05-07 along with multiple Silver Stars and more than 10 BSM (V) during the deployment.

CSM Frank Graham (CSM, retired) - truly dedicated to the Soldiers and a true leader of character. The pillar of what an example is for all of us to emulate. He has given so selflessly throughout his service that I do not think the retirement pay he receives is quite enough. This individual has truly given and given of himself to the point of the compromise of his own safety on multiple occasions. He lead with the principle of leading by example.

COL Sean MacFarland (now LTG) - a leader of strong moral and tactical courage that risked his own safety to fight alongside his men, even as a BDE Commander! In Ramadi, he came up with the idea of taking the fight to the enemy by creating all the Combat Outposts (COPs) across Ramadi and fought alongside the team to get another foot of battle space under control. We used to pay for our meals by filling two sandbags (which were used for helping set up perimeter defense of the COPs). The entire unit trusted him and had the confidence that he made the right decision and never made exceptions for his own safety, he is a true leader of principled integrity.

I learned something from each of these people and they have changed my life and the way I conduct myself...even the bad example. For those serving in our Armed Forces, we are truly lucky to be around such great men and women that serve our country so selflessly.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Oct 11 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-10-11T12:56:51-04:00

When the first star is worn, the recipient automatically becomes a politician or they are immediately forgotten. That applies with the ending of WWII, we had warriors in the flag ranks back then.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Oct 11 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-10-11T13:21:06-04:00

The farther up the chain you get the more you have to become a "political officer."

Leadership is part of we do. Strategy is part of what we do. "Technical" is part of what we do. It's all a balance.

One of the Leadership traits is Tact. In my opinion, it's the lubricant of of the traits. It's far easier to use to little than than too much. Unfotunately it gives the impression everyone is a politician when everyone weighs every word.

But in the modern world where everyone is carrying a recording device 24/7 and context is easily forgotten, sometimes the choice to be a "politician" just makes sense. You can do mote good in the system than out.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 1:52 PM

2015-10-11T13:52:43-04:00

General Robert H. Barrow Commandant of the Marine Corps 79 - 83 Last World War II veteran to be Commandant. Was the first Commandant to serve as a full member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, acquired approval of production of the American-modified Harrier aircraft, and several other improvements to enhance the effectiveness of the Marine Corps.

Brigadier General Robin Olds USAF 43 - 73 Olds epitomized the youthful World War II fighter pilot. He remained in the service as it became the United States Air Force, despite often being at odds with its leadership, and was one of its pioneer jet pilots. Rising to the command of two fighter wings, Olds is regarded among aviation historians, and his peers, as the best wing commander of the Vietnam War, for both his air-fighting skills, and his reputation as a combat leader. The remainder of his career was spent in non-operational positions, as Commandant of Cadets at the United States Air Force Academy and as an official in the Air Force Inspector General's Office. His inability to rise higher as a general officer is attributed to both his maverick views and his penchant for drinking.

General Norman Schwarzkopf, Jr. USA 56 - 91 While serving as Commander-in-Chief, United States Central Command, he led all coalition forces in the Persian Gulf War. Highly regarded for these exploits, Schwarzkopf became a national hero and was presented with many military honors for what historians termed one of the most successful campaigns in U.S. military history. Schwarzkopf retired shortly after the end of the war and undertook a number of philanthropic ventures, only occasionally stepping into the political spotlight.

Response by MSgt Curtis Ellis made Oct 11 at 2015 5:02 PM

2015-10-11T17:02:35-04:00

Not all of them, but there are quite a few politicians... Definitely politicians, and just as self centered and individualized as their civilian counterparts... And no, I like my job, so I will not name anyone, positive or negative...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 5:31 PM

2015-10-11T17:31:27-04:00

The Senior Leader that most prominently comes to mind is BG Bob Tehnet.

Response by CPT Russell Pitre made Oct 11 at 2015 6:46 PM

2015-10-11T18:46:05-04:00

I like this. I have seen this often. Working around field grades in the guard was like being a presidential primary. Everyone said so many great things about how they were going to take care of the soldier. But they never did. I saw awards get denied, commanders get spoken down to for not being in line with them. It didn't matter if that company commander was doing the right thing. There is a reason why I am out of the Guard now. This is it. It was like the some officers were like the grinch and lived only to have drive the masses into a frenzy of misery.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2015 6:50 PM

2015-10-11T18:50:28-04:00

I will say the best leader I have seen with this was MG Lusk. He is the Adjutant General of the NCNG. I have seen him as a COL in command of my BCT in Iraq. He was the type that you felt comfort that he was in command. He inspired and felt for the soldiers in his command. If you were talking to him you would forget you were talking to a General. He was that personable.

Response by LTC John Shaw made Oct 11 at 2015 9:29 PM

2015-10-11T21:29:37-04:00

LTC Private RallyPoint Member The military is a contact sport and leaders must be principled and excellent communicators at the same time. You have to manage up and down the chain of command, no easy answer, it is what it is.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 4:38 AM

2015-10-12T04:38:19-04:00

I must say that the higher I move up the more political it seems to be getting. You must be a principled leader first. Politics can assist with the accomplishment of your mission and can be a good thing also. Unfortunately it has become a dirty word these days. Anybody who says there isn't politics at the senior levels is a liar too.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 8:00 PM

2015-10-12T20:00:24-04:00

Sir, I'm not sure. I've only interacted with Battalion level Officership and in some rare cases some brigade level leadership. My personal interactions with them has been positive, while some I might call "careerists" who focus on "me", the majority seem to be attempting to do the right thing by the Army and their Soldiers.

On the other hand, some of the Generals we consider to be 'legendary' are also political. We demand our "stars" to be able to navigate with politicians because at the end of the day, we work for them. Names like Gen. Petraeus and Gen. Eisenhower are just two names that come to mind about Generals who had to work the political spectrum. If on the other hand , if you are asking me if we have Generals who kow-tow to politicians without fighting for the Soldier - I'm going to take up the minority here and say, that's a hard judgement call to make when I don't see what they do on a daily basis.