Are traditional Veteran Organizations doomed?

SFC Michael Hanke — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 14:20:54 -0500

I often hear questions from older established Veteran organizations wondering why younger Veterans do not join their organizations. I usually respond with "be active conducting outreach in the community and don't sit in a building drinking alcohol excluding our next generation. What say you RP followers?

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Feb 2 at 2020 2:27 PM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 14:27:39 -0500

I belong to a small VFW Post. We are very active in the community and have a no alcohol at our events policy. In the past 12 months we have recuited 5 new members 40 and younger. I think it is because of what we do in our small community.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Feb 2 at 2020 2:52 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 14:52:39 -0500

It depends on the Post and its leaders. I have known a few posts that sold alcohol but was active in community affairs. I have also known others that was just a place to drink in a dry country or on Sunday. The best way to recruit new members is by networking; That is easy close to military Installations yet a challenge away from the flag poles.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Feb 2 at 2020 2:58 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 14:58:00 -0500

Not doomed to extinction but doomed to downsizing for sure. Unless some conventional war breaks out and great armies engage in sweeping battles of combined arms. As for younger members, don't expect them in any great numbers regardless of the size of our active duty forces. They are too busy building and living their lives. Veteran Organizations are for the old.

Response by SGT Robert Pryor made Feb 2 at 2020 3:09 PM

SGT Robert Pryor — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 15:09:43 -0500

SFC Michael Hanke You nailed it on the key being outreach. The local VFW Post kept coming around my parents house while I was on terminal leave, looking to invite me to join. My dad finally put a boot in my ass to get over there, which I did. I became a life member of the VFW as a 20 year-old, about a week before I was medically retired. That was over 50 years ago. Since that time I joined The American Legion (1973), Military Order of the Purple Heart (1975), the Disabled American Veterans (1978), the Legion of Valor (1982) and the Special Forces Association (1984). I eventually became a life member of them all. I was too cheap or too lazy to pay annual dues and I didn't want my memberships to lapse. I joined MOPH as a Life Member, which set me back all of $25. I probably costs a little more by now.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2020 3:20 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 15:20:18 -0500

SFC Michael Hanke I am a life member of the VFW but have never been to a post because I have never felt the urge to go.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2020 3:25 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 15:25:36 -0500

I don't see it as "doomed". These groups need to right size. In the current year you don't need to hang out with old alcoholics to talk to other vets. Social networks have made the local chapters irrelevant. The National organizations will still live and can even improve with restructuring.

Response by SFC Michael Hanke made Feb 2 at 2020 3:54 PM

SFC Michael Hanke — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 15:54:39 -0500

I'm a firm believer in Supportive Services for Veterans. By developing strong outreach programs for veterans, assisting with filing VA healthcare, educational benefits, intent to file for C&P, etc. It's important to recognize that anyone can assist a veteran with obtaining their earned benefits.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 2 at 2020 6:09 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 18:09:33 -0500

I feel different with Vietnam veterans. The younger veterans I have met are often very reclusive.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 2 at 2020 9:12 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 21:12:42 -0500

When the local VFW here had a sign that they supported the local USW union in their contract negotiations with the employer I work for I decided right then and there I would never join it. There are many salaried folks that could be vfw members. If the negotiations had gone south we would have ended up working the strike to keep our jobs. All their sign showing “support” did was alienate other vets that happen to not be union members.

Response by PO3 Marykatherine Moran made Feb 2 at 2020 9:55 PM

PO3 Marykatherine Moran — Sun, 02 Feb 2020 21:55:31 -0500

I got out in ‘84 at a time when women weren’t allowed in forward areas. So much for the gap between Vietnam nurses and when we’re actually allowed in forward areas but still not in combat. Finally now. VFW for me? I think not. And so many others I disqualify for but I lead in making a way for women now! If I have a spouse who served in _______(fill in required action required) and I can join the ‘kitchen help’. Sorry ladies no disrespect. Just a group of which I don’t want to be apart. So much for loving history, guys.
I put up with a lot of harassment from chiefs and master chiefs who commented on my breasts and how I was taking up a man’s land billet. Wives also complained. So to be ostracized by top veterans groups because I was by law not allowed to serve seems like same s___,different day. Yeah. Count me in.

Response by MAJ Roland McDonald made Feb 3 at 2020 2:31 AM

MAJ Roland McDonald — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 02:31:38 -0500

These organizations are still needed today and I believe even more now than ever. With the Declining numbers of veterans as the WWII and other generations and less serving. These organizations are key to keeping benefits that they fought congress for and continue to fight for. They are the PAC for the veterans. The need for younger generations to join is more important so they can become involved and step in the breach to keep the fight going for benefits. Without these organizations there is no doubt in my mind that when congress needs to cut the budget this will become one place they will cut if we don't have these organizations to keep the needs of veterans in the forefront. Many things can be hidden in a congressional bill that is over 15k in pages that no one reads. Thus they are needed. Yes they need to adjust and adapt to newer times but that can only happen if newer generations join them. The infusion of new blood is necessary to keep fighting for the benefits for those that cant fight anymore.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Feb 3 at 2020 6:43 AM

SPC Donn Sinclair — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 06:43:33 -0500

Took me 30+ years to join. There was the usual shunning from some organizations, (VFW mainly), but for me, it was time, or lack of it. Had a career and a family to raise. That, and the idea of sitting around some smoky club room, telling war stories was way down on my to-do list. It's the same way for the later generations of vets. They want to go places where there's music and girls, not a beer hall with a bunch of old farts preaching how much tougher it was "Back in my day." Maybe they'll come around down the road, (like I did), if the VFW, AMVETS, or American Legion still exist.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 3 at 2020 2:35 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Feb 2020 14:35:59 -0500

That's exactly why younger veterans aren't joining these organizations. There's zero outreach overall- and female vets aren't being included. I have read stories of female vets who say they don't join anything because they don't feel welcome.

Response by LTC David Howard made Feb 5 at 2020 8:56 AM

LTC David Howard — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 08:56:51 -0500

Most of these organizations really flourished after WWII, when the number of veterans was enormous, and the concept of belonging to fraternal type organizations was in its prime. Even by the time I retired from active service 30 years ago, these organizations were already losing membership and influence. When I retired I moved to a community that I was unfamiliar with because of a job opportunity. I made an attempt to be part of a local VFW post, and felt totally isolated and unwelcome. At that time the WWII and Korea vets were just not very open to Vietnam vets like myself. I then tried a Vietnam Vets group, but again felt it was very much a clique of lifelong friends who had grown up together, served together, and had now banded together as veteran's, and who clearly were not interested in having an outsider join their ranks, especially a retired officer. In more recent years I have again given this activity a try, but also found that sitting around and drinking seemed to be the primary activity, something I had little to no interest in being a part of.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2020 11:31 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 11:31:21 -0500

not yet a veteran and definitely not younger but I just don't have the time to be active in a veteran's organization. Job, wife, kids, grandkids, etc, etc, etc. Maybe in 3 years when I retire I'll have more time.

Response by Sgt Rudolph Andrade made Feb 5 at 2020 1:25 PM

Sgt Rudolph Andrade — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 13:25:50 -0500

and don't be afraid to collaborate with other veteran organizations

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 5 at 2020 1:41 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 13:41:51 -0500

Most veterans (& people) I have encountered who were born after 1990 are not "joiners" of anything. Most do not date, they go out in groups. To me they tend to view most acquaintances as disposable commodities. They have a VERY low marriage rate and only time will tell if they replace their own numbers. Yes there are exceptions but they are just that, exceptions. Most have socialist/progressive political leanings thanks to the level of indoctrination they are subjected to in most institutions of higher learning. Again there are more exceptions to the rule in politics, but regrettably not enough. They also tend to be loners which is inimical to joining anything.

It isn't just veteran's organizations that are impacted. Hereditary societies are also feeling the pain along with large numbers of Round Tables and Historical Societies. The only society that hasn't been affected that I am aware of is the Society of Cincinnati.

Have no fear, the pendulum always swings back. We may be having problems now but we won't be having it in 20 years +/-.

I believe that purely veteran's organizations should consider sharing headquarters and office staff. In many instances, the members of one organization are often automatically eligible for another. Example everyone in the VFW should be automatically eligible for the American Legion, but not vice-versa. Everyone in the Marine Corps League is eligible for the Navy League and the Naval Order. However the reverse is not automatically so. Organizations should consider offering price breaks that are attractive to potential dual members. The organizations will be better able to sustain their membership, but may not collect quite as much in dues ("80% of something is better than 100% of nothing"). For example, both Group A & B currently charge $50/year for membership. If someone wishes to join both they must file duplicate applications and pay $100 in dues. If the administration of Groups A & B were merged, then the costs overall should be reduced, the quality of services might improve (with vigorous and imaginative leadership), and the dues to belong to both organizations could be (for example) $75 per year.

It is time to think outside the box people!

Response by PO3 Kenneth Hutchinson made Feb 5 at 2020 5:10 PM

PO3 Kenneth Hutchinson — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 17:10:55 -0500

I am a member of The American Legion and the Dav and there is great concern for these organizations staying strong. It's our place to try and get our younger Veterans to join and take part of the things the are taken place in the comminty

Response by SGT Dorian Wolfe made Feb 5 at 2020 8:03 PM

SGT Dorian Wolfe — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 20:03:46 -0500

Response by SGT Dorian Wolfe made Feb 5 at 2020 8:08 PM

SGT Dorian Wolfe — Wed, 05 Feb 2020 20:08:44 -0500

Most Fraternal organizations are having issues just like VO;s. We have looked inward far too long and need to involve the community. I believe many people want to give back to their community. New goals working in the community seem to be attracting new members in other organizations.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Feb 9 at 2020 10:28 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Sun, 09 Feb 2020 10:28:22 -0500

WOW that could be part of the problem if I want to go to church I will. The organizations need to do just that get organized. I am not saying I could even make it work because it is not easy and especially on a budget. I was a member of three VFW's of those mostly bingo was played that was most of how they generated revenue that and the food. One Had a separate vented smoking room and a small bar. How ever the events were not just siting drinking and smoking They had an exceptional parade float as well. I Did not spend much time at the VFW building but did support the event they had, seemed like they had something going on at least once a month.
Now with that said I have seen a serious decline in the VFW by the young. They always have something else to do a bit more exciting than the VFW to do. Again working with a budget it is hard to have events that speak to the younger generation the things they would attend and support require a larger budget to set up and get support for. Media and city facilities are not as giving to the VFW as in past years. Some of the problems started over 40 yeas ago and the end of Viet-Nam because of how the veteran were treated. I could go on with couple of more pages but I will spare everyone. This is just my opinion so don't come in wanting to beat me up for it.
Thank you for your Service and Welcome home Vets.

Response by SFC Robert Walton made Feb 11 at 2020 8:27 AM

SFC Robert Walton — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 08:27:28 -0500

Out reach is good. Not all VFW's serve Alcohol, and not all VFW's exclude the next generation or ignore female Veterans.
If we prejudge the Organization and refuse to get involved and make the changes then yes they are doomed. Appears it is easier to complain than to find a fix. The question is what do you expect to find when you walk in? ASK your self that then get involved and fix. So far by what I have read from people on this post you want to walk through the door and be offered a I-pad or electronic device a nice comfortable chair in a room tagged with your group name on it and an energy drink with bible verses on the wall. If that is what you want get involved change it, Honestly I think the young do not get involved because they are to busy with family and friends to be part of an organization that may not be 100% like every thing you want. The bantering and " well you didn't have it as tough as we did " has be going on for years, I had one guy tell me I was nothing because I didn't serve in the 60's okay no big deal I didn't. Doesn't mean I find him less of a person for it. JMTC

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 21 at 2020 9:14 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 09:14:43 -0500

Well My VFW post does not sit in a building and drink alcohol. We do seek out young Veterans and try and get them to join. But they like you think all we do is get drunk. We don't. We have a lot of community projects we do and a lot we could do if we had more active members. My Post only has 8 active members. The biggest thing is we talk about our experiences. Theirs in in Vietnam mine in Afghanistan. This SFC Hanke helped me more than the Counseling I got adjust to being back in the states.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Feb 21 at 2020 2:20 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Fri, 21 Feb 2020 14:20:21 -0500

WIIFM?
What's in it for me? I am currently working 50-60 hours a week, 6 days a week in a physically demanding job. I have VERY little spare time and even less spare energy. Investing time OR energy into a vet group better have a payoff. That payoff can be camaraderie, satisfaction of helping other vets and/or the community, discounts at stores, or some other tangible or intangible benefit.
The local groups I have seen have none of that for me. Part of that is because I am an introvert, but most of it is because there is little to no outreach or public interaction. Until it becomes worth my time or energy to participate, I won't.

Response by SSgt Ben Adair made Feb 22 at 2020 8:54 AM

SSgt Ben Adair — Sat, 22 Feb 2020 08:54:07 -0500

I have been an American Legion member for 10 yrs. Our post is community involvement based and does not have a canteen. I have made some great friends and learned so much from Vietnam era vets. I am a Panama/Desert Shield era vet and I value what the legion has to offer all vets.

Commander, American Legion Post 290, Dripping Springs TX

Response by SN Terry Poynter made Feb 23 at 2020 5:56 PM

SN Terry Poynter — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 17:56:08 -0500

I joined my local VFW and found that the local VFW was a close-knit community. it is the National organization that drove me away. getting "reminders" that my dues were due every quarter, by people that I think were trying to confuse me into paying dues no less than twice a year, plus forever bombarding my snail mail and then email with a request for donations...I got sick of it and eventually just stopped.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 23 at 2020 7:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 23 Feb 2020 19:19:12 -0500

Most of these organizations are faltering. They have failed to adjust to the modern warrior plus the rapid loss of WWII, Korea and Vietnam era veterans. As they pass, so may these organizations.

Response by TSgt Ken Vandevoort made Feb 27 at 2020 1:10 AM

TSgt Ken Vandevoort — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 01:10:05 -0500

I never joined a Veterans organization because I was never asked to join. The WWII vets did not want us.

Response by COL Brian Shea made Feb 28 at 2020 8:25 AM

COL Brian Shea — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 08:25:14 -0500

I am a life member of one of the two major Veteran organizations and an on/off member of the other. Seems every time a new National leader gets selected for both their main talking point is always growing the membership roles, something I refer to as "Body Count". Like back in the days when that term was used for political purposes, so is it today. More members, active or not, means more political clout. And if the primary focus of the organization (at least at the national level) is political it's no wonder why many younger (and older) Vets are turned off given the state of politics today. IMHO we would be better served by having one Vet organization that focuses on what we have in common (being Vets) than several that focus on what might distinguish us from one another (VFW, MOAA, DAV). But hey, give it time. Over the years those younger Vets will become the older Vets.

Response by SPC Andrew Murray made Mar 5 at 2020 1:53 PM

SPC Andrew Murray — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 13:53:50 -0500

This article seems related. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/19/younger-veterans-bypass-vfw-american-legion-for-se/

Younger veterans bypass VFW, American Legion for service, fitness groups

Kate Hoit served eight years in the Army Reserves, including a tour in Iraq, but when she tried to join her local Veterans of Foreign Wars chapter, someone asked whether she needed an application for military spouses instead.

Response by SPC Michael Terrell made Mar 5 at 2020 3:44 PM

SPC Michael Terrell — Thu, 05 Mar 2020 15:44:34 -0500

I wasn't interested when I was first discharged. I wasn't a drinker, or interested in Bingo. I was to busy trying to restart my life as a civilian. I was on a service call to fix a poorly installed sound system at the local VFW, where they tried to browbeat me into joining. I had never been overseas, and they raised their money with a bar. What they don't understand is that most non members have any idea of what they do. Would you want to join a group like that? Over the decades, I rented various Veterans groups PA equipment for events and parades, but not one of them was willing to take the time to explain what they did. 'Join and find out for yourself' was not an acceptable answer. A local DAV chapter helped me apply for Disability in my mid 50s. The Veterans Service Officer asked me to join. I did, but due to my health, I rarely attend the meetings. I am a paid lifetime member of the DAV., and in my mid 60s.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Mar 6 at 2020 9:48 AM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Fri, 06 Mar 2020 09:48:44 -0500

I don't join because I don't want to pay the membership fee.

Response by PFC Eric Stosius made Mar 11 at 2020 6:34 AM

PFC Eric Stosius — Wed, 11 Mar 2020 06:34:31 -0400

Too many non veteran bar flies hurt a club. My club has a large membership because they allow cigarette smoking. It looks like a 1950s hunting camp a you can choke in the air. I'd like to know how many are vets and how many are clinger-oners.

Response by LCDR Merlin Mundy made Mar 17 at 2020 1:26 AM

LCDR Merlin Mundy — Tue, 17 Mar 2020 01:26:37 -0400

Alcohol is a good part of the problem but their are other reasons: heavy cigarette smoke, discounting the service of Veterans after WWII as not having fought in a “real” war, the “generation” gap,

Response by SGT Stephen Jaffe made Mar 23 at 2020 8:04 AM

SGT Stephen Jaffe — Mon, 23 Mar 2020 08:04:19 -0400

I think there are too many different veterans organizations. The same with disabled veterans organizations. Since they all exist for the same purposes, to serve and help all veterans, I think they should all combine into one organization; the US Military Veterans Association. All veterans who have served our country should be allowed to become a member. There is strength in numbers. I belong to VFW and VVA (Vietnam Veterans of America). Our VVA chapter is about 'gone'. We're all senior citizens and most of our members have passed away. There will never be a younger group of 'Nam vets. VFW and American Legion should combine. A veteran is a veteran and they answered the nation's call. Whether or not they served in a war or served in other capacities. I think the 'new' organization would attract more members.

Response by SGT Perry St.laurent made Apr 9 at 2020 2:36 AM

SGT Perry St.laurent — Thu, 09 Apr 2020 02:36:56 -0400

I think one thing often is forgotten by the younger generation is that these organizations that have been around for years are also the organizations that are currently still fighting for their rights and continued support after service. I do agree with some here that in order to continue they will have to change to support younger veterans while continuing to honor and support older veterans. For younger veterans or servicemembers I advise they still join one of these organizations even if they do not plan to participate in its events because regardless of your activity they will be there for you and support you in many ways without any cost. Need help with disability, many of these organizations will help your fight through it and many other things they have to offer.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2020 12:06 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Apr 2020 12:06:42 -0400

I didn’t last time I was approached and I still don’t believe that I need to now. I work 12 hours a day, six days a week and still go to drills with my guard unit. By the time I’m done making the living I want to have and doing the job I love I don’t feel like going to a meeting to sit around with a bunch of guys who don’t want anything more than to verbally defecate on my service record. Them smoking and drinking isn’t a problem, the entire organizational attitude toward all of us under 40 is. I smoke and drink anyway - just not with them. I don’t wish to associate with a bunch of perverts who right after they talk to me proceed to sexually objectify my wife either. It’s gotten to a point where my wife will not attend guard family functions either - she doesn’t care to be harassed any more than I care to watch it.
Our unit highly encourages VFW membership, and even after this deployment is over I still don’t plan to associate with or endorse their behavior or the organization allowing it.
The US Army taught me one thing through the years I’ve been here: Your personal time is free. I choose to spend that one day a week doing things that I enjoy with my wife and kids.

Response by SPC Chris Ison made May 17 at 2020 8:37 PM

SPC Chris Ison — Sun, 17 May 2020 20:37:12 -0400

It is my experience the VFW/AL is just a bunch of drunks.