Are We At Risk Of Over-Thanking Our Veterans?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 11:02:52 -0400

For the past 14 years, the American public has largely sought to thank our troops and show their support through measures both great and small. From "Support Our Troops" bumper stickers to airlines allowing Military personnel to board flights ahead of all other passengers. With the Wars now winding down, Navy Veteran and Team Rubicon employee Ken Harbaugh explores a much deeper looming dilemma as he sees it: The Risk of Over-Thanking Our Veterans. He goes well beyond the simple courtesies of the 10% discounts and the pats on the back from a grateful nation - he points to the exploding costs of caring for the Veterans who have been at war these past 14 years, the soaring VA budget, a Comp & Pen system that is often gamed by Vets for a payout, and the potential fallout and resentment this may ultimately engender with the broader taxpaying public who may ultimately ask if they are paying too much?

What do you say, RP Nation? Does Mr. Harbaugh raise some valid points? Or is he merely a Veteran who is better off than most who is on a soap box and pointing fingers? What say you?

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Response by SGT James Elphick made Jun 9 at 2015 11:05 AM

SGT James Elphick — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 11:05:26 -0400

Yes, and it has created a weird sense of entitlement among veterans. Thankfully, there is starting to be a roll-back of sorts from veterans "policing their own" and letting other vets know this was never what it was about.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jun 9 at 2015 11:10 AM

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 11:10:56 -0400

We should never stop this process! We still owe our Vietnam Veterans more thanks then they ever received after that war! I believe we have a long road ahead of us in this battle on Terrorism or whatever they are calling it now. We need the community and populace support to continue like it never has before, so we can continue to win this war! It will not go away! Just one man's opinion!

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 9 at 2015 11:31 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 11:31:46 -0400

Great question Paul! I'd say somewhere in the middle. If the government really wanted to thank us, they would fix the VA period. Not sure how easy it is to scam as I have been trying to get what I feel is a legitimate claim in for years. I agree in my case that happening on AD and service related are 2 different things but there should be a bit more leeway.

I think the civilian "thanking" is getting a bit over the top because I'm not sure if they understand what they are thanking us for. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are plenty out there including myself that appreciate it on occasion but do you see a uniform and go up and say "thanks for your service" because of the uniform or does it have actual meaning for you?

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Jun 9 at 2015 11:53 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 11:53:00 -0400

How can you thank them enough?!!!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 12:01 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:01:14 -0400

Here is an excellent counterpoint to Mr. Harbaugh's commentary, written by Michael D. Helm, National Commander of The American Legion.

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Response by MSgt Robert Pellam made Jun 9 at 2015 12:06 PM

MSgt Robert Pellam — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:06:18 -0400

Im gong with Other.

While Mr. Harbaugh makes a decent point when he talks about members gaming the system, their are veterans who legitimately NEED those compensations.

Truth is we have some bad apples in the military. Just like there are bad apples in every place. Some people are gaming the system. I feel a bit weird when Vets pressure me to file for disability. I've been out 3 years and honestly don't see a need as I am in good health. I think there is a culture of grab everything you can. But I also think that stems from legislators who constantly play with our benefits, adding and subtracting them to get what ever votes they want. I think Vets get tired of lawmakers playing "how much can we get away with". I always laugh when they cut the military spending budget and the first thing they go after is member benefits.

So sorry I'm on the fence. I hate the bad apples, but I also hate the way Lawmakers play with us.

Response by SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA made Jun 9 at 2015 12:28 PM

SGT Hector Rojas, AIGA, SHA — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:28:15 -0400

It's all cocomamy, even adjusting for benefits, we're still underpaid for all the intangibles of what we do. Diminished health, lost relationships, personality changes, hardships adjusting to a civilian world that may not need our skills, etc.

Whatever 'after service' benefits we get, are either difficult to actually use, long waiting lists, excuses as to why we're not entitled to this or to that, etc.

If anything, our after service benefits should be increased and made easier to actually use.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Jun 9 at 2015 12:56 PM

Maj Chris Nelson — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 12:56:49 -0400

This is a very difficult question, and getting it right is going to be almost impossible. Is the system broken? Yes. Is there fraud? Probably. Does that make it incorrect? I don't think so. I will have given over 28 years of my life to the USA in service of the defense of this nation. Would I have otherwise worn the helmet? Battle Rattle? maintained a level of physical fitness that was required? Maybe some, but not all. And all of these will contribute to the earlier breakdown of my physical body. Even if I don't feel the total effects now, I WILL feel them years down the road. There are others that truly need the assist NOW. I understand where he is coming from, however, I do not fully agree with the way his thinking is going.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Jun 9 at 2015 1:48 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:48:39 -0400

We need to be more specific in what we are thanking them for. I for one have a damn difficult time not filtering out the gratuitous "thank you" every time some one learns I have served.

What does my service actually mean to you? What are you doing to make my sacrifice or the sacrifice of my brothers and sisters worth it? Are you thanking me for the gas that powers your lawnmower so you can cut your grass for the BBQ party this weekend? Or are you thanking me for the sense of security I provided, allowing you to sleep peacefully at night?

When you thank me, I want to know what my service meant to you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 1:58 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 13:58:53 -0400

How is it possible to "over-thank" anyone who writes their life as a blank check for the government to utilize as it sees fit? Service members don't, very often, get the say in where and how often they will go to keep their military career going, to see it through to retirement.

Response by Lt Col Timothy Parker, DBA made Jun 9 at 2015 2:13 PM

Lt Col Timothy Parker, DBA — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:13:52 -0400

In the end, how can we not thank those who are willing to risk their lives for others? Although I served for nearly 24 years, I was never in a combat situation where I feared for my life. Many did. I can't imagine having to do that day-in and day-out for an extended period of time - to live under the fear of death or severe bodily harm.

The alternative is having too few willing to sacrifice for others. Then what?

In his book "Duty", Robert Gates quoted George Orwell - "people sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men (and women) stand ready to do violence on their behalf".

I'm willing to thank those who "stand ready" for the sake of my family and my way of life. I'd rather it be too much than too little.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Jun 9 at 2015 2:22 PM

SA Harold Hansmann — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:22:57 -0400

It's a shame this was never done for our Vietnam Veterans.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jun 9 at 2015 2:24 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:24:41 -0400

Broken veterans and thanking veterans in generals is not the root problem. The root problem is the US has been fighting two long wars.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jun 9 at 2015 2:38 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:38:20 -0400

Oh wow... I try to remain calm and collected in a variety of my posts, reserving my vitriol for the Department of VA. This thread & article is not specifically about them, so if I slip, I apologize in advance.

The author is working under some false assumptions. The first of which is:

"and are set at varying levels to compensate injured veterans for an assumed inability to work."

This is the exact text from the VA website:

"Disability compensation is a monthly tax-free benefit paid to Veterans who are at least 10% disabled because of injuries or diseases that were incurred in or aggravated during active duty, active duty for training, or inactive duty training. A disability can apply to physical conditions, such as a chronic knee condition, as well as a mental health conditions, such as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)."

Although an injury or disease MAY result in an inability to work, that is in no way a prerequisite for Disability Compensation. The higher the percentage, the higher the chance there will be of an inability to work however.

Second, the amount of Disability Fraud, though he doesn't call it that, is in line with all other Fraud. About 5%. Let's not make this issue out to be larger than it is. Compare that to the inefficiencies in the VA processing system, and that is over shadowed by far.

This is not a case of thanking veterans too much. This is a case of veterans entering an era where the system is theoretically capable of supporting them administratively if not operationally.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2015 2:42 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:42:27 -0400

Ok so here I go. Is the VA system broken? YES. Does it need to be fixed? YES. We all get that. Fixing the broken system is going to take time, money, and man power. There are a lot MORE veterans now then 20 to 30 years ago and the VA fell way behind and can not keep up. Do some people "game the system"? YES. And that does need to stop. But first you have to fix the system so you can stop the people who are gaming it. Now, I do not want to sound greedy. However, I'm service connected and retired. What Mr. Harbaugh fails to realize is, as a retiree my "disability payment" is deducted from my retirement pay. I personnel feel that this a little slap on the face. Why does it have to come out of my retirement pay? Yes, it is tax free. However, I earned both. I personally feel that we should be getting both.

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Jun 9 at 2015 3:03 PM

Sgt Spencer Sikder — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 15:03:23 -0400

As in any other social program there will be some who game the system, but to broadly state, .."often gamed by Vets for a payout", demonstrates a narrow view of the needs of veterans. Once we stop thanking our veterans, it seems to me that the country will begin to resent them and start pulling back their support. At least until the next time our country needs it's warriors to defend a democratic principle this country believes very strongly in.

Response by SGT Edward Perez made Jun 9 at 2015 8:24 PM

SGT Edward Perez — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 20:24:03 -0400

Are you asking if the American people are over thanking a veteran. Or is the question at individual places of business. Any case how can you over thank people that has saved your life in more ways then one, your freedom and independence. Heck if you don't or can't afford giving funds don't. Hang an American flag, or post a sign thanking the service member. Can we ever thank each other enough, vet to vet. I say hell no. Any given vet dont have to go for comp or pension. Keep your pride, i need the health care.

Response by SGT Michael DeLaGarza made Jun 9 at 2015 10:17 PM

SGT Michael DeLaGarza — Tue, 09 Jun 2015 22:17:07 -0400

I too have paid for everything out of pocket as I have had the means. Thanks to my career and employers. I worked in Washington DC for a year and a former official from the VA had me apply for Benefits due to service related injuries. 2 years later, denied. I called the screener whom reviewed my file and he told me he was a Marine and that I should call my friend in DC because there was no reason to deny... LOL I gave up after I got up off the floor from laughing.

Response by MSgt Mike Brown; MBTI-CP; MA, Ph.D. made Jun 10 at 2015 9:33 PM

MSgt Mike Brown; MBTI-CP; MA, Ph.D. — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 21:33:46 -0400

Seems many say "Thank You;" However, its become such a cliché, that it becomes les-meaningful. I'm a life member of the VFW, and also the DAV -- Yes, I receive VA compensation -- when I applied to Voc Rehab, I was nearly laughed out of the office, and didn't even get to sit down with a "counselor" -- was seeking assistance with full-time faculty -- adult learning employment, large screen computer and back lit keyboard for a plethora of eye and neuro conditions -- response:" you have an education and are employed -- we cant help you -- but referred me to the cystic fibrosis society of San Diego... Its pretty hard to make up a story like that...Yes, was employed as an adjunct professor, which is part time, non-guaranteed work, and when hours put in compared to pay, made less than $7.00 per hour..

Response by SGT John W Lugo made Jun 10 at 2015 9:43 PM

SGT John W Lugo — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 21:43:27 -0400

Well I served 12 years with Army National Guard and haven't used any benefits, during my college time didn't use GI or any other benefits as many feel Guard doesn't qualify for benefits like regular Army. I 've talked to so many veterans that have made out better with less time of service. So if a Veteran is entitled to earn benefits then utilize them as long as they are not abused.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2015 4:29 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jun 2015 16:29:22 -0400

Yes. We risk cheapening the sentiment, making it insincere, and eventually weary civilians will feel a backlash and want to quit supporting "whiny, insecure" veterans.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 3 at 2015 4:08 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 03 Aug 2015 16:08:02 -0400

Bullshit. The war in Iraq is not close to being concluded. Some veterans will fudge the system but that is another issue. Our military goes to war and the civilians go to the mall and probably think the ME is a nebulous place.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 3 at 2015 10:58 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Mon, 03 Aug 2015 22:58:46 -0400

You can never say thank you enough. It's the most under used phrase in the English language.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Aug 3 at 2015 11:50 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Mon, 03 Aug 2015 23:50:22 -0400

Never...there cannot be enough thanks to Veterans, especially those who were deployed.

Response by Sgt Kelli Mays made Aug 3 at 2015 11:51 PM

Sgt Kelli Mays — Mon, 03 Aug 2015 23:51:42 -0400

How could Veterans ever be "over thanked" when combat situations are continuous?...and serving is continuous and on going....

Response by SSgt Terry P. made Aug 4 at 2015 1:18 AM

SSgt Terry P. — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 01:18:58 -0400

i am a Vietnam Veteran---Vietnam Vets were ignored or overlooked for many years,but it has caused the system to work towards improving care for our more recent Veterans and for this i am thankful.

Response by PO2 Mark Saffell made Aug 4 at 2015 6:43 AM

PO2 Mark Saffell — Tue, 04 Aug 2015 06:43:31 -0400

Ask that question of Vets from the 60's and 70's and how we where treated back then vs now and I think most will agree that Mr Harbaugh doesnt speak for US!

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Sep 12 at 2015 4:21 PM

PO1 Glenn Boucher — Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:21:08 -0400

I think that everyone needs to be thankful for what veterans have done for our country and the world in general.
Nothing against anyone who has not served, except for those who steal valor and are complete fakes and liars, we all serve or do not serve for our own reasons.
That all being said, I sometimes am irritated by people who constantly are gushing their thanks for my having served. Its almost like its an expected thing to be said and for most the sincerity is not there. I also look at Veterans Day, free meals and other free or discounted things to do, but its getting to the point of people walking in wearing some cammies from the thrift store and saying they are a veteran and getting a free meal. Yeah there are supposed to be checks on ID, DD-214, etc., but who in all actuality carries their DD-214? Lots of people like I said just walk in wearing cammies pants and everyone assumes they are a veteran, some may be, but I am pretty certain most are not.

Response by SFC Dean D. made Sep 14 at 2015 2:01 PM

SFC Dean D. — Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:01:27 -0400

The public will decide for themselves if they want to stop thanking us depending on the political and patriotic climate of our nation. For veterans to reject their thanks, in any way, would damage the relationship between the military and civilians which are two worlds far enough apart already.

Response by LTC Christopher Sands made Sep 17 at 2015 8:25 PM

LTC Christopher Sands — Thu, 17 Sep 2015 20:25:33 -0400

He should be happy he is being thanked. A whole bunch of Vets got spit on and screamed at. You do not like it, move on. Dont screw it up for the rest of us.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made May 13 at 2017 9:54 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Sat, 13 May 2017 09:54:41 -0400

Thank you Maj. for the great picture and article share.

Response by TSgt Joe C. made May 13 at 2017 9:56 AM

TSgt Joe C. — Sat, 13 May 2017 09:56:37 -0400

We can never thank our veterans enough IMHO MAJ Private RallyPoint Member.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2017 11:34 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 May 2017 11:34:27 -0400

I think if we stop honoring our veterans we should eliminate the armed services in every branch and "special" branches as well. No military, no FBI, no CIA, no HS, no law enforcement, nothing!!! Let everyone fend for themselves and see how it all goes!!

Why would a subject like this even be brought up! Ridiculous!!!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 13 at 2017 2:08 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 13 May 2017 14:08:46 -0400

My wife showed me it's supposed to statement from Bernie Sanders saying that we spent six trillion dollars to involve our veterans and all these wars but we can't spend a few billion dollars to take care of veterans. I think Bernie Sanders has a point even though I don't agree with him on many things. We have over 20 suicides a month from veterans dealing with being homeless having substance abuse problems or not having adequate service done by the VA or ability to get access to services to help them due to budget constraints or whatever. I don't think we have thanked veterans enough because they're still living the war in their head from the past trauma of combat or loss. Let's fix the VA let's fix the veterans and mitigate the suicides!