Are we making sure Soldiers are setting realistic goals?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 May 2019 02:15:44 -0400

As of late I have seen many young recruits and Soldiers ask about more advanced training like Ranger School. I am really not a fan of this. I recall when I was a SGT Soldiers going to Special Forces Assessment and Selection had to be an NCO first. They did this so Soldiers trying out had maturity and skilcraft. Over time Soldiers had to pay their dues in the line and then move on to more advanced training. When a Soldier asks me about going to SFAS or Ranger school I always tell them to put their time in first and master their craft. Before a Soldier plans going to Ranger School he should be more concerned about being the best infantryman he/she can so they can be prepared. I don't think going to Ranger School as a PVT in the National Guard is realistic at all. I have seen this first hand. Are we not painting a picture of prioritizing the benchmarks of success for these goals?

What are your experiences with dealing with those setting goals?

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made May 7 at 2019 4:42 AM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Tue, 07 May 2019 04:42:19 -0400

They need become grounded in the military first.

Response by SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA made May 7 at 2019 9:25 AM

SPC Elijah J. Henry, MBA — Tue, 07 May 2019 09:25:19 -0400

Good thoughts... but I'm under the impression that 18X and 40 Option contracts are recruiting tools. Guys join to do high-speed stuff. Some of them make it, but the ones that don't are still in for the needs of the Army.
For guys who are already in, it's good for them to have high aspirations. It gives them something to work for. I wouldn't say someone is automatically not ready just because they don't have a certain rank or TIS.

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made May 7 at 2019 9:36 AM

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Tue, 07 May 2019 09:36:27 -0400

The Navy doesn't seem to have this problem (at least from my vantage point). We have "elite" paths in Naval Special Warfare; people can theoretically go SEAL or SWCC... but for the most part, everyone knows these are extremely limited billets (especially for officers), and the primary focus is getting qualified in your rate/designator, and moving on down the line. You may be a Boatswain's Mate, or a Culinary Specialist... but if you're in a RIB crew, standing watch on a bridge, doing customs inspections, assigned to Force Protection, or rolling with sister services on an IA deployment, you do what the job calls for, be it "cool", or "cold". I can't support it with more than "gut feelings", but it seemed to me this provided a "big picture" perspective. Naturally, the Army is a different organization, and I can't imagine going into one of the world's most professional land-combat organizations and not doing "land combat". Still, it makes sense to me that if you're in that lane, it takes time to "grow" into bigger shoes.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made May 7 at 2019 11:12 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Tue, 07 May 2019 11:12:19 -0400

The 18X contract has been around since I went through OSUT, so if there was a restriction, is was on active duty military. I agree that many soldiers come in with unrealistic expectations on what will be available to them, especially on the Guard side of things. OTOH, you have the qualifications to swing an 18X(REP63 for NG) or 40X and make it through it, you have my respect and you have earned the right to be there.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2019 11:27 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 May 2019 11:27:58 -0400

The grade requirement for SFAS was E4 when it started in 1987. it briefly dropped to E3, then dropped to E1 in 2006 when they brought back the 18X program. You never had to be an E5 for SFAS.
The highest grad rates in Ranger School are E3s at 49% and E2s at 48%, ask any RI about it and they will likely say that since they are a school and they teach the standard required to pass, E2-3s are the most successful because they show up without years of learning bad habits and the wrong ways, (E5-6 grad rate is 40%, O1-2 grad rate is 44%).

Three years before I enlisted, I had a career path mapped out, and it included Ranger School and SFAS. Like any plan, it didn't survive first contact, but the first 10 years still came out looking pretty close.
I am all for young Soldiers having a career plan.
If Ranger School is in that plan for the right reasons, then it should be completed before your first leadership job, whether it is PL or Squad Leader.
I think Soldiers should go to SFAS as soon as they are mature, responsible and reliable, regardless of rank or experience.
That said, I have ran into many Soldiers throughout my career who had know idea what their own MOS (or any other MOS) was when they contracted, and had no plan for what happens after getting in the Army. And that kind of Soldier has no business volunteering for a high attrition school, or volunteering for a much more complex MOS.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made May 7 at 2019 12:34 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Tue, 07 May 2019 12:34:30 -0400

Halo, Ranger, Combat Dive School, Airborne, all look sexy in the trifold glossy brochure. Unless you have someone motivated to be a mechanic, H8 wrecker operator because they enjoy that type of work and challenges, it's a hard sell. Or appealing to the people who secretly want an office job like a 42A. The trifold glossy brochure of the Chemo, S1 and S4 finalizing USR slides won't sell. The CSA and SMA are even noticing it, that is why they have started a video campaign to shine a light on all 200+ MOSs. The Army advertising has lots of visual candy but is light what we actually do. The most positive thing in the last decade has been the background music in the add. Makes me want to run up the ramp of a CH47 or go kick in doors.

I think the rest of the Army gets sold short. You never see the tell-all book or movie written about the Maintenance Control Supervisor executing the heroic plan to make up 90 days of services backlog in spite of an indifferent chain of command. Or the E3 that goes to SLing Load Certification and rigs a hard to rig item like a mod for a Meerkat that saves the day for a marooned RCP in RC East. The tens of thousands of soldiers deployed to OEF, OIR, OIF, OND, and other operations were conventional soldiers doing their best to support the mission where they were assigned. It's not to say the unconventional forces werent fighting way above their weight, because they were. But even special guys need food, water, fuel, air drops for resupply, maintenance, recovery, wills, pay inquiries, and all the other mundane stuff everyone else needs. Or conventional combat arms units running seemingly endless patrols generating Intel that result in that one great door kicking raid. . It's about everyone there working together to accomplish the mission.

So the kids gravitate to trying to be a ranger seal sniper level 12 illusionist with psyonic ability when they are unlikely to make the cut, where as they could push themselves and be a good soldier. It's all they've ever heard about and then when reality sets in, the 94H TMDE guy is a let down when it really shouldn't be. Not to say these hooah schools aren't needed or don't enhance the capability of the force, because they are needed and they do enhance the force. Just saying that the worth of the regular Army soldier seems to have been lost in the shuffle and seems to have been made less.

Response by MSG Robert Conrad made May 8 at 2019 7:47 AM

MSG Robert Conrad — Wed, 08 May 2019 07:47:11 -0400

Every Soldier is a snowflake. No two are the same, I think it's a COC decision on who attends what training, and when. Soldiers have the right to apply, but there should be a order of merit in the approval process. The development of your Soldiers should include helping them with professional planning, financial planning, and life after service planning. Some of my best ideas I ever had, I stole from great leaders.

Response by CW2 Michael Bodnar made May 9 at 2019 8:57 AM

CW2 Michael Bodnar — Thu, 09 May 2019 08:57:12 -0400

You have touched on something that's been challenging for many years. I am a prior service Marine and I went to Parris Island in 1993 to earn that title. I liked the way the Marines sold themselves because it wasn't about the high speed MOS's or the glory of battle rather it was about becoming a Marine. When I earned that title, it was a very special occasion in my life one that I often reflect on. I left the Marines and joined the National Guard and boy what a culture shock - and not a good one. What does the Army have other than high speed MOS's and the glory behind becoming a Green Beret, Ranger, SF, etc? From what I've seen, not much. I think the newer recruiting videos coming out are starting to show that but in reality, the Army does a terrible job at selling themselves. I think it starts with the recruiters wearing ACU's instead of variants of the ASU's. Show people the Army has more to offer than the glorified MOS's they continue showcasing.
As far as sending younger soldiers to SF and Ranger school - bad idea! They need to become soldiers first and understand what's expected of them before jumping into something like that. They often lack maturity and honestly do not know or understand how to be soldiers. I actually use the SMART method when talking about my NCO's and help them achieve what they want from the Army. They in turn use it on our soldiers and the impact has been very positive. It helps lay the groundwork for their expectations and it keeps them grounded by not setting to high of a goal they cannot meet.