Are you tired of these PTSD signs... and the Discussion?

2015-07-05T10:27:05-04:00

In Missouri, especially around here, people are fireworks crazy, so last night these signs (the concept, as I have not seen any around here) were even more funny; sound like "shock and awe" around our home. So, I am getting... Real tired of this...

WWI, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, etc... Didn't complain.. To me, These are just more posers and attention seekers.

But, this sign (meme, I think?) is really accurate... It about covers my thoughts, as does the author....

"No, I'm not saying every last veteran with these signs is full of crap (although my tone sure suggests it). Nor am I saying PTSD doesn't cause real, verifiable problems and sensitivities to things like fireworks. I am saying, however, that our personal problems are not the general public's responsibility. If we have issues we need to handle them ourselves, not expect our communities to change their behavior for us.

Every veteran who handles his issues wins a victory that helps us all. Every veteran who embraces victimhood and displays a sense of entitlement reinforces damaging stereotypes that hurt us all. So burn those stupid fucking signs, light some fireworks, and be grateful that your neighbors still celebrate our independence the way we have for over two hundred years."

Have fun!

http://www.breachbangclear.com/signs-of-veteran-entitlement/

Signs, Of Veteran Entitlement. « breachbangclear.com

Earlier in Independence Week we published this piecepartially about the now-controversial fireworks signs. It caused some strong reactions, even among our minions. Hernandez now expandsupon thesigns, entitlement, and victimhood. Mad Duo

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jul 5 at 2015 10:29 AM

2015-07-05T10:29:41-04:00

Yes. Very tired.

Response by PO3 David Fries made Jul 5 at 2015 10:37 AM

2015-07-05T10:37:48-04:00

I feel bad for people with PTSD. However, people have the right to continue to live their lives as before.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2015 11:00 AM

2015-07-05T11:00:51-04:00

I haven't seen any in person. This just seems like whining to me.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jul 5 at 2015 11:06 AM

2015-07-05T11:06:39-04:00

COL Charles Williams, roger that, sir. These signs only make veterans look like whimpering wimps at best, and unstable threats to society at worst. They would do better if they would just suck it up and act like soldiers - or if they cannot do that, get noise cancelling headsets and stay in the basement for the night.

If they really cannot be around loud noises perhaps they should look into other controlled living arrangements until they can get it together – for their own safety and for that of their neighbors.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jul 5 at 2015 11:13 AM

2015-07-05T11:13:16-04:00

COL Charles Williams, while I haven't personally seen these signs except for on Rally Point and Facebook, I agree with you. I've noticed that those with real, documented PTSD don't wear it like a medal. They will discuss it if asked, but they don't advertise it nor do they try to get sympathy for it/try to "milk" it.

Response by COL Mikel J. Burroughs made Jul 5 at 2015 11:14 AM

2015-07-05T11:14:04-04:00

COL Charles Williams I could never get tired of your discussions! That shouldn't have been an option my friend. I think PTSD is a serious issue that even my father had (PFC Donald Burroughs) when he was wounded in action (stepped on a "Bouncing Betty") and ended up in very bad shape, but also think it is something that should be kept between the soldier and their healthcare providers. It should be a private matter. If it were me I would never want anyone to know, but my immdiate family that I was suffering from this issue, but that is me. Again, this is just my opinion, so if any of our RP Members have a serious case of PTSD, my comments were not meant to offend you, but just provide advice. I don't think the signs are necessary.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jul 5 at 2015 12:10 PM

2015-07-05T12:10:48-04:00

Hope you had a great 4th sir. It's a tough call because PTSD affects everyone differently. I agree that the particular sign you show is over the top. and that some are using these signs to attract attention and sympathy. My best guess and I apologize if this comes across the wrong way, is that most PTSD sufferers aren't out there to label themselves and draw attention to themselves in this manner. I don't think anyone would suffer in silence but they also wouldn't broadcast the fact this boldly. I think every group PTSD, racial, gender, etc. is going to have their outspoken vocal activists that bring less than flattering attention to everyone else in the group. The dead horse is a galloping this way.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2015 12:20 PM

2015-07-05T12:20:30-04:00

Kind of like putting a beware of Dog sign up if you ask me...I do not like it.

Side note it also implies a level of uncontrolled potential violence and that is not good PR for any of us.

Extreme Sarcastic remark.....I guess broken hearted folks will be putting up similar signs come Valentines Day. Dear mailman please don't deliver any valentines here.....it hurts my feeling. Anyway ........

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made Jul 5 at 2015 12:31 PM

2015-07-05T12:31:12-04:00

IMO I think people that put out signs such as this are looking for attention. I have never met someone with PTSD that would broadcast to every Tom, Dick and Harry that they have PTSD.

Response by LTC Bink Romanick made Jul 5 at 2015 12:39 PM

2015-07-05T12:39:16-04:00

I am the National XO of USABOT the U.S. Army Brotherhood of Tankers and we have several Facebook pages where we pay attention to what some of our brothers are posting. We have local units where brothers are avaialable to actively assist a brother in need.

I don't see any of them as being ostentatious about it, I see the sleeplessness and the attempts to self medicate and the need for help.

We have a national officer in a resident program currently who once told me that "he had an Iraqi visit him in is dreams for the past 20 years" an ODS veteran..

I've never seen one of those signs.

Response by SGT Amber Chafin made Jul 5 at 2015 12:41 PM

2015-07-05T12:41:04-04:00

I think the concept was noble in the attempt to spread awareness of the struggles those with PTSD face, however I agree with my mates here, that this isn't realistic.

We want to be courteous of our neighbors, although I have yet to personally see a sign such as this in my neighborhood. There is still a great deal of stigma associated with mental health, and I highly doubt most would post it to their entire community.

I'm definitely an advocate of awareness, but this doesn't seem realistic.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jul 5 at 2015 12:54 PM

2015-07-05T12:54:23-04:00

Can I get an Amen!

Response by GySgt Curtis L Leetch made Jul 5 at 2015 3:09 PM

2015-07-05T15:09:02-04:00

I cannot answer one way or the other. I see the merits both sides of the issue... and both side are vaid. Who is more correct?????

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Jul 5 at 2015 3:53 PM

2015-07-05T15:53:35-04:00

I'm tired of the signs, but it is a valid concern, sir. Some vets need the signs. The problem is the veterans that just put them up for recognition, or to make people feel sorry for them.

Shaffer

Response by SSG Donald Mceuen made Jul 6 at 2015 7:23 AM

2015-07-06T07:23:37-04:00

Never seen these signs

Response by SPC Clifton Peacock made Jul 6 at 2015 8:18 AM

2015-07-06T08:18:09-04:00

In my experience, most prior-service men and women with PTSD do not share it with every "swinging Richard" under the sun. It is usually an issue that is kept off the radar and only shared, if at all, with the few people that they trust and confide in. Also, most individuals that would raise a flag like this for all to see are either looking to play the sympathy card or are setting up a excuse to be a dick later on to their friends and neighbors.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jul 6 at 2015 8:19 AM

2015-07-06T08:19:48-04:00

Personally, I think the sign, why meant as a joke sums things up a lot. PTSD is not a medal to be worn but it is something we need to keep as a discussion. I have come across some Veterans that claim "PTSD" and I know for a fact they never left the FOB and the closest they been to any sort of danger was sitting in the air conditioned PX when a rocket landed 2.5 miles away on the other side of camp. These sort of things do more harm and keep more Veterans away from getting treatment than the wait at the VA.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jul 6 at 2015 8:21 AM

2015-07-06T08:21:32-04:00

Overplayed, overused, abused, and is the "chronic" back claim of the 80's in VA claims.

Response by CW2 Eric Kline made Jul 6 at 2015 9:34 AM

2015-07-06T09:34:33-04:00

this meme has many sides that effect many folks - sometime sarcasm is a good response to continue communication as long as all parties are open-minded...

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 10:14 AM

2015-07-06T10:14:52-04:00

Your ending was fantastic! LOL. COL Charles Williams I could read it over and over. It's true. I wouldn't ask my neighbor to change anything for me. But then again, I am too proud to ask for help. That's just my bad.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jul 6 at 2015 10:26 AM

2015-07-06T10:26:12-04:00

Sorry, when I saw the option 'I am just tired of COL(R) Williams..' I just could not help myself. Sir, for the record, I respect and appreciate everything...well almost everything...you do.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 10:48 AM

2015-07-06T10:48:44-04:00

I am so tired of the signs; they are yet another component of the American desire to sub-categorize and divide us as citizens into disparate special interest groups and voting blocs, which the politicians of one party in turn will seek to pander and cater to while the politicians of the other party will seek to ignore and rob so that they may give a bigger slice of the budgetary pie to their preferred special interest groups. Why can't we all just be "one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" for one day? If fireworks bother you, find a way to cope. It is possible. I've done it myself in the past.

As for you 8% who are just tired of COL(R) Williams, meet me out at the wood shed, it's time for an attitude adjustment! ;-)

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 3:46 PM

2015-07-06T15:46:25-04:00

I think it's even more common in the reserve components of the total force as well. A lot of them get back from a deployment and instantly expect to be put on a pedestal. Similarly, non-combatant MOS/AFSCs are often the biggest culprits.

Granted, and I say this with confidence, this is NOT the majority. It is a small percentage of veterans, but over the past 14 years our number of veterans out there seems to have increased and/or it has been more popular to be a veteran. When I hear a 4 year navy veteran without a single deployment on a ship or otherwise, flaunt his service as if it were more than what it was, then surely I suspect he wants some sort of pat on the back and special recognition.

There is nothing wrong with pride in your time served or a solid military career. And it's definitely okay by me to show your pride after deploying. I get it and I've been there. I am proud that I was able to contribute to the GWOT.

That said, I do think that our nation as a whole has maybe gone too far in trying to reverse the experiences the generation before mine experienced; that of the Vietnam era. Following Desert Storm's swift "in and out" the pride of our military was back, and we showed up with flags and banners welcoming everyone home. Then the GWOT, after America was attacked, it became cool to be American once again; and even more cool to support the troops. And it practically became normal to get a free meal if you were somewhere in uniform. I have personally had at least 7 meals bought for me.

Some may say the American public is partially to blame, but I think those few veterans that are out there flaunting their status and getting everything they can based on that status; from goods and services, to personal recognition, has gone too far.

Regardless of blame though, I would hate to see the whole thing turn the other way and resort back to the Vietnam War era mentality. Because of idiot Veterans and a handful Gung-ho civilians with the same "look at my patriotism" attitude; it can over value what it means to have simply served.

There needs to be a balance and I think a good start would be for us "average Joe veterans" showing that we are not special, we're just veterans. By "average Joe" I mean we are simply veterans, maybe with a deployment, maybe not. Maybe with combat experience, maybe not. The thing is we need to not alienate anyone who may need some extra attention for whatever reason, be it PTSD, apprehension, depression, alcohol or drug dependency. Those things are real and they exist among us. We don't want someone to be afraid to reach out for help or even a helping hand, but we also don't want to encourage every veteran out there to simply take a handout because it's easy and "it's okay."

Not everyone automatically gets PTSD from a deployment or even multiple combat engagements; everyone is different. But we have gotten to the broad assumption that if you were in combat, or even near it, that "oh, you must have PTSD".

Again, collectively we need to strike a balance. I hear of veterans being told there's a one year wait at the VA (or some relevant story), but that veteran may be 40, did a 3 year enlistment in the nineties, but after 18 years still relies on the VA for healthcare. Meanwhile, the story of an Iraq War veteran with severe PSTD and some undiagnosed rash can't get an appointment.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jul 6 at 2015 4:50 PM

2015-07-06T16:50:42-04:00

COL Charles Williams, I've never actually seen anyone put up such a sign, but my sentiments are those of the majority that have commented.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 4:51 PM

2015-07-06T16:51:53-04:00

Haven't seen them, but I don't think it's right to just make those assumptions. Make sure vets know that this is available to them, and if they ask for it, then by all means send one over.

Response by SGT Matthew Ellis made Jul 6 at 2015 6:08 PM

2015-07-06T18:08:17-04:00

My VA shrink described my PTSD as severe. I love me some fireworks. Remind me of more enetertaining times when we were tearing shit up. If it were just one, big boom, then it might startle me, but fireworks aren't like that.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jul 6 at 2015 6:44 PM

2015-07-06T18:44:24-04:00

Ignoring the specific "content" of these signs, and looking at it more from a philosophical view, they say:

"I want OTHERS to adjust their behavior based on MY specific needs."

Although I am a firm believer that common courtesy should prevail, and everyone should be respectful of their neighbors, I disagree with "my interpretation" of what these signs say.

I'm not sure that is the correct philosophy to advocate.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 6:51 PM

2015-07-06T18:51:55-04:00

I've never seen one of these signs in someones yard, so there is no reason for me to be tired of the signs. If I did see one in a neighbors yard, I would avoid using fireworks simply because I would hope others would do the same if fireworks caused me problems.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 6 at 2015 8:46 PM

2015-07-06T20:46:24-04:00

COL, if I could upvote you 1000x for this, I would.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Jul 6 at 2015 9:59 PM

2015-07-06T21:59:21-04:00

I have not seen the signs as I don't get out much, my PTSD is keeping me in! Just kidding, while i do have PTSD it doesn't keep me in and it doesn't keep me from watching fireworks. I remember at a family gathering about 30 years ago, fireworks were being set off in the backyard, my twin brother and i, both Vietnam vets were there and well this one fireworks instead of going up as planned started going off all around us. I guess the rest of the family thought it was pretty funny when the two of us were the only ones diving for cover as they couldn't stop laughing.

The signs did make the news in Rhode Island recently just before the fourth and i felt like saying, give me a break! Dakota Meyer, MOH recipient had on his Facebook page something about this and he said that they are usually the ones who have these signs are ones who have some Rambo, killer type shirt on where they are promoting all things war but want to hide from it on other ways.

Response by SFC Douglas Duckett made Jul 7 at 2015 7:51 AM

2015-07-07T07:51:48-04:00

I have yet to be bothered by the fireworks. I have not had any go off in my area that are the size of a VBED or IED; those might have me startled. The signs are just a way for a Veteran to seek additional attention (right or wrong) and do less damage than the media. I personally do not display such bullcrap. I try to keep my issues to a selected few (you all are included) that actually impact my life and help in my healing.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Jul 7 at 2015 9:55 AM

2015-07-07T09:55:59-04:00

I'm not really tired of Col Williams. I just couldn't resist pushing the button.

Response by SPC Nathan Freeman made Jul 7 at 2015 10:11 AM

2015-07-07T10:11:14-04:00

Seriously, as long as I'm expecting it, it doesn't bother me. A few weeks ago, (way before I was expecting it), someone set off a whistler that surprised me and my wife(she's not even a veteran). I ducked and said a few choice words but no harm was done. I wouldn't put a sign in my yard. I don't have my military record plastered on my back window. I know what I've done and I'm proud of it, but I'm not a drama queen.

Response by SP5 Angela Simpson made Jul 7 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-07-07T12:56:22-04:00

I'm a veteran diagnosed with PTSD also my step father is a Vietnam veteran also diagnosed. We didn't put up any pussy signs..... Every year when the fireworks start you know what we do? TURN UP THE RADIO AND JAM OUT!! Until we fall asleep when our meds kick in. Nobody pays attention to a damn sign.. You are right our stuff is our problem to deal with no reason to display it to everyone else and ask them not to enjoy their holiday for the benefit of us, they are celebrating their freedom and the people who protect/ protected it!!!

Response by SrA Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2015 1:12 PM

2015-07-07T13:12:04-04:00

After watching a combat veteran (Vietnam) go through an episode of PTSD at a 4th of July event meant for veterans, even if some of these signs may be people whining or looking for attention, I am not willing to take that chance. It was a terrifying moment watching a man who was stoic only moments before break down, sobbing, and dodging nonexistent mortars. So maybe the signs are overplayed, but if I ever thought I was the cause of an episode like that it would haunt me for the rest of my life.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2015 1:33 PM

2015-07-07T13:33:49-04:00

Never seen them before.

Response by SPC David Hannaman made Jul 7 at 2015 3:49 PM

2015-07-07T15:49:51-04:00

I just HAD to pick that I was tired of COL Williams... honestly though, I've never seen one in person. I'm all for "toning it down a bit" though, my dog apparently has PTSD, ever see a 100lb Rottweiler do a back-flip? It's pretty awesome!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 12:16 AM

2015-07-08T00:16:48-04:00

I have a similar sign

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 8 at 2015 9:22 AM

2015-07-08T09:22:30-04:00

Yep.

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Jul 8 at 2015 9:56 PM

2015-07-08T21:56:38-04:00

I remember when my uncle came home from Vietnam, he drove a supply boat for the Army up & down the Mekong Delta, one day sitting with him in his kitchen a car backfired outside and he instantly hit the deck under the table. Never saw these signs back then when I had uncles who served in WW II, Korea, & Vietnam. I often wonder why is it so different today? Certianly servicemen saw things just as bad back then as they do today yet PTSD is all over now. I hear people say they have PTSD and have never served in the military or first responder jobs.

My heart goes out to these young kids today with or without PTSD but sometimes I wonder if our country is the way it is because my generation did something wrong in raising them. God knows I have and still am trying.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 16 at 2015 1:54 PM

2015-07-16T13:54:25-04:00

Do I react when I hear an unexpected crack, whiz or bang? I sure do. I get hot flashes and heart palpitations. But that has to be quite loud. I don't know any combat arms soldier that mistakes fire crackers for gun fire. I think the signs are more a call for help or attention or sympathy than a true call for consideration.

Response by CPT Tamara Brewer made Jul 22 at 2015 12:02 AM

2015-07-22T00:02:42-04:00

I think educating the public is fine...by signs or any other respectable way. Now, I know that last year we, my family and I, were sitting in our living room and our neighbors began shooting fireworks over our home and I have never felt more stressed since returning home. It was and still is illegal to light up fireworks within the city limits. SO, I did confront my neighbors in a respectful but point blank way. I don't like unexpected loud booms over my home.

Am I weak because I feel this way?....hhhhmmmm....nope. I think that being considerate of others is how community works. So, I'm fine with signs. I don't think I am going to stand there and read all of the words on the example sign, but a plain one that says, "Firework Sensitivity, please be considerate." would work just as well.

My 2 cents.