Are Younger Enlisted Not Adapting To Military Lifestyle?

2014-03-19T23:04:25-04:00

I have been in the service for less than 2 years, but I was raised in a military family, so I have a basic grasp on how things work -- more or less. More geared towards NCOs and above (with a considerable amount of time in service)... What are your thoughts on service members that are coming in these days? Even as junior enlisted, I see many issues from my peers which the intent is to break rules "just because you can", regarding: improper uniform wear, general regulations and not committing to job specific qualifications and PT. Do you think this will cause problems for the future of our military? If so, how should we fix this?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2014 11:13 PM

2014-03-19T23:13:36-04:00

Joining the military isn't just like getting a job, but that is how too many people treat it. It is a way of life, and a profession. The only way to progress in the military is to work hard, take it seriously, and earn it. I think the problem with newer service members is that they seem to have a mentality that everything should be handed to them, or that they can get away with breaking the rules. Back when I first came in, we partied hard, but we worked even harder to make sure that we were living up to the standard! I think the answer is to live up to the standard, set the example of what right looks like, and encourage these new recruits to do the same. They will make mistakes, as we all do, but it is learning from those mistakes that will make them better service members.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Mar 19 at 2014 11:19 PM

2014-03-19T23:19:43-04:00

Normally, the nonhackers and jack wagons will weed themselves out. The problem is if they are allowed to stay and end up leading others, that's the issue.....when they are supposed to set an example.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2014 11:26 PM

2014-03-19T23:26:43-04:00

A1C Murray,

Here are similar discussions:

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/new-generation-of-soldiers?from_groups=false

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/am-i-the-only-one-noticing-a-huge-lacking-in-the-concept-of-general-military-bearing-and-authority?from_groups=false

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/what-methods-have-you-employed-to-deal-with-the-new-generation-of-soldiers?from_groups=false

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Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Mar 21 at 2014 5:46 PM

2014-03-21T17:46:17-04:00

A1C Murray, this is a very good question and for every Leader out there, you will receive a different answer. I believe that it is one of the leadership challenges of today to ensure proper indoctrination into the service (branch immaterial) as a whole. What I mean by that is that society today is much different than society was when I joined the Army. The societal norms, values and attitudes that were ingrained into us at that time are different than they are now. I am not saying they are better or worse, I am just saying that they are different. With that difference comes a need for Leaders at all levels to adapt to address those differences in order to better indoctrinate young service members into military life. If that does not happen, those that do not wash out through natural selection will become the Leaders of tomorrow with the issues that you mention in your initial question.

Response by CW4 Anthony Carbo made Mar 22 at 2014 9:39 AM

2014-03-22T09:39:20-04:00

Need to lead by example, I think that is were all of the problems stem from. It seem the NCO/SNCO want to be the troops buddies, not their mentors and leaders.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2014 9:50 AM

2014-03-22T09:50:13-04:00

I definitely see this a lot. It is frustrating because you see a lot of the "Oh I am just doing one term and getting out so I don't really care to excel." I don't accept that as a response from my Soldiers but the problem is some Leaders do. We need to reignite the passion within our Troops so that even if they are just "one-termers" they can go back to civilian life knowing and talking about how they gave it their all during their service and they are proud of their accomplishments.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2014 10:09 AM

2014-03-22T10:09:56-04:00

Every generation of young enlisted acts generally the same. Trying to bend rules, barracks lawyers, PT. Its always going to be there. I don't think that this generation is any different then ones that came before. One difference is at least the Army has kept more of the negative troops around because of the wars. This is slowly fixing itself, and they will weed themselves out. Another difference is a change in leadership styles, what was ok 10-15 years ago is viewed as toxic today. Leaders today need to adapt, and in the end the trash will get kicked out, not allowed to re-up or just ETS when their time comes. Like someone else before said we do need to hold them acountable so they do not get promoted to become tomorrows NCOs

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2014 10:17 AM

2014-03-22T10:17:09-04:00

We need to build the culture again. You build a culture by building and emphasizing character. How we act is more important than if, when, and why we act. There used be a curtain or fog that obscured the leadership's actions from view and therefore from scrutiny. The subordinate HAD do as the leader said because he she couldn't see what the leader did. Today, that is not the case. Leaders today need to lead by example. We need to show the force what right looks like. We need to take care of the whole Soldier, Sailor, Airman, or Marine and not just the version see at work. We need to know what color the carpet in their living room is. We need to know their spouse's name. We have to know their kid is doing poorly in math and ask if the tutoring program we suggested is helping. We need to help them solve their problems, get better as people, deal with their fears and celebrate their successes. Once we get back to doing that as much as we worry about the training calendar and PT tests, we'll be on to something. This isn't rocket science but it will necessitate a paradigm shift. Some can make the shift. Some can't. Which are you?

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Mar 22 at 2014 10:20 AM

2014-03-22T10:20:28-04:00

While I can not and would not try to speak for my brothers and sisters in the other branches of service, I can voice my opinion of the Soldiers I have seen enlist in the Army since the mid-late '90s. Due to a shift in the way society decided to raise their children and the sense of entitlement that some feel they deserve from the get go, the quality of young Soldiers has declined from even when I enlisted in 1987. Blame our culture where you have a large percentage of single parent households, the relaxing of parental and school discipline and so many other factors, you unfortunately get what society offers. Along with this in the early-mid '90s you had a relaxing of the manner with which DSs could and did enforce discipline with the new Soldiers in IET/OSUT and AIT. Big Army told us, NCOs and leaders, that we had to change to accommodate THEM because we were getting more intelligent troops, it should have never changed, THEY should have been made to change to accommodate US. Along with a relaxing of standards in the barracks, the removal of the barracks from unit control, etc, you get Soldiers that do not really assimilate to the Army culture. My son, a young PFC at Ft. Riley, has a hard time when looking at some of as he puts it "...the stupid shit..." that his unit does because he had a certain expectation of the Army having grown up a brat and watching me serve for may years. It's hard to explain to him what is happening because I spent my last 7 years in TRADOC or in a staff position in Kuwait and can only speculate for him as to wtf is going on. Maybe things will change for the better with the drawdown and the re-tightening of certain standards that were relaxed or forgotten for the last 13-years, I can only hope that they do for my son's sake and all of you still selflessly serving our Army and nation.

"TREAT 'EM ROUGH!!"

Response by TSgt Brian Herman made Mar 22 at 2014 10:29 AM

2014-03-22T10:29:22-04:00

My free opinion, to answer the question, is just more examples of "PC" ruining our society. Not just the military, but America as a whole.
Young people need discipline, experienced people recognize themselves in their juniors.
However, when the is no penalty for "wrong" behavior, then what difference does it make if you blouse your pants evenly or not? Pocket unbuttoned? So? It's not like I'm getting inspected or anything...
In a world where individuals are less and less held responsible for themselves, the concepts that the military promotes are less and less important. When you add the constant financial concerns of each branch of the military, where everyone on their second term IS worried about losing their job, that makes the internal politics that much more unbearable.
Short answer is try YOUR best, set the standard, and lead by example. Don't be as concerned about what the other guys are up to, and do the best you can. In the end, all the discipline, "right thinking", and motivation to succeed comes from with in.

Response by CSM Michael Poll made Mar 22 at 2014 10:59 AM

2014-03-22T10:59:02-04:00

A1C in my opinion, and that is all this is, I see a trend in this generation of entitlement, it seems on the surface that this generation is looking for a hand out and believe that they should be treated a certain way. In truth, a Private is a Private, or in your case an Airman is an Airman. You advance through professionalism and hard work. You do not get a trophy for last place. We, as seniors, have all been a Private or Seaman, or Airman, we have dont the "miniscule" work I use this term lightly as all work is necessary. We worked our way to JR Leaders and eventually SR Leaders. This geneeration needs to understand that you start at the borrom and with hard work, dedication and a little self improvment, you move up. Us as Leaders need to be respectful, however not to the point of "entitlement" Yes you will clean the floors, yes you will need to obey orders and yes you will not like some of the stuff you have to do. As for "breaking the rule" Your NCO's need to step up and act like the leader thier strips show. Too many times we have "Likers" and not LEADERS. For you specifically, do whats right, do not follow in the path of your peers, if you continue to set the example, you will no longer be their peer, you will be thier leader!

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Mar 22 at 2014 1:10 PM

2014-03-22T13:10:28-04:00

I'm so tired of this generational blame game. As much as people love to say younger generations feel entitled, I have yet to see those people break down why they feel that way. When you see your grandparents get screwed by the system in the early 90's with the tech bubble burst, and then your parents in the early 2000's with the housing bubble burst, of course they have a mind set of "FUCK YOU, PAY ME!" That is the only thing that many of these kids were told growing up, go to school, get a good job, make good money. There was no sense of unity, everyone in your class, your grade, your school, and that walked the planet was a competitor.

I don't see it as entitlement as much as I see it as a generation lost, they were not taught how to be on a team, because even on a team sport, you had to be the best, only the star was going to get a scholarship and get the money.

How do we fix this? Stop pointing out how this group of individuals are not you, and realize that the generations before had a good part in making them this way. Now you are charged with bringing these people in and having to mentor them. This was a generation that had a great amount of freedom, and are not used to being locked down by rules. We need to get rid of certain practices like anti-fraternization. We need more interpersonal mentoring, and family building. Not their family, but the true belief that everyone to your left and right are a brother/sister and not just something that sounds good.

I apologize for getting a bit passionate, but I can't stand this blame game on a population that as of right now have no way to explain themselves because they don't have the honor of being high enough up the ladder yet.

Response by SGT Stacy Bouvy made Mar 23 at 2014 4:09 PM

2014-03-23T16:09:59-04:00

I think honestly every generation who is in the military find that junior members aren't "on the same page". Look at those who have done 20 years versus those who were at their 20 year mark when they were initial entry, they might have dais the same thing. You either adapt or you do not. The rules are in place to weed people out and it does its job. There is no lost culture, things are always the same but different vantage points. Great topic though!

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Mar 23 at 2014 8:00 PM

2014-03-23T20:00:02-04:00

A1C, if this problem continues to fester unchecked and uncorrected, it will corrupt and corrode ALL US military services from the inside. That's why we gotta do something about it now.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2014 10:52 PM

2014-03-23T22:52:16-04:00

Even as a Junior Enlisted, you can correct others. You should ALWAYS feel obligated to correct your peers tactfully. If they don't listen, the Chain of Command and peer pressure from buddies can do wonders.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2014 3:02 PM

2014-05-12T15:02:12-04:00

The problem is that too many senior NCOs got promoted too quick due to the two wars that were going on. So some of those that got promoted too quick are now what we like to call Toxic Leaders. So you have these seniors treating their troops like crap so in turn they do stupid stuff. But we also have a generation of entitled troops. They think they should be given something rather than earn it. And those seniors don't know how to deal with them.

I treat all my Soldiers with the same respect and in return we have an agreement that as long as they stay straight then we won't have any issues.

Response by SrA Kelly Richard made Apr 22 at 2015 11:37 PM

2015-04-22T23:37:13-04:00

I just recently separated a week ago, but I noticed something more than just a generational divide. I deployed in 2012, and when I came back we had all new Airmen in my unit, they were all way different than the group I went through BMT with. It was frustrating because we could hardly ever see eye to eye on anything. In 2012 something had occurred that led to drastic changes in BMT and on the Techschools... All of the sexual assault scandals hit the media. I was deployed at the time, so I caught wind of what happened, but I had no idea of the gravity of the situation until much later. After all of this came out, some of the biggest changes were the fact that trainees could now have cell phones on the through the duration of BMT, use of language changed, and they went "easier" on trainees, and anything perceived as hazing was cracked down on... e.g. "excessive" PT. Now, some may not see this as being a big deal, or that it needed to be done anyways; however, some of these things are essential to breaking everyone down from all walks of life and backgrounds, to put everyone on tge same page, to raise up everyone equally together, among the same Air Force culture and foundation. They develop a sense of pride together and form cohesion. In oder to effectively accomplish that, they need to mostly be cut off from society. No cell phones, no Facebook... You get snail mail, and if you're really lucky, a five minute phone call from the pay phones to mommy to let her know that they are feeding you in there. I understand why they allow cellphones, for emergency to call for help, but what about that sqwak box on the wall? But as often, I digress. It also really adds value to your snail mail. Something to look forward to. The "excessive" PT I'm on the fence about. On one hand I know of people in Techschool that definitely did take it too far causing severe injuries to people. But in BMT even when I went through, I felt like we didn't do enough, but with the newer batch of Airmen, I saw so many PT failures as a PTL, I was embarrassed for us as a branch. However, sometimes some people need to learn a lesson, and from what I've witnessed, getting smoked is very effective in building respect (both for themselves and others) and instilling discipline. I never did understand why the new Airmen just HAD to make it known if they didn't respect or like someone that held rank on them. Okay, so in your head you don't respect them, but you fake it, respect the rank, but don't act disrespectful and don't say so either! Is it that hard? Yes, the so-called give me generation probably makes it difficult to combat, but I noticed the biggest shift when BMT changed. How can we fix it, yet still attempt to mitigate sexual assault? I'm not sure, because when I talk to others or when we looked at that website with all of the court martials, it doesn't appear that these changes were effective. Can BMT ever go back to how it was? I wish it could, but I do believe these changes were mandated by congress, most of which have no military background or understanding. You just keep doing what your doing, learn how to work with these situations while you're in ALS (though the real world is different, ALS is actually helpful for dealing with others) and make your best attempts with your future troops, and I'm sure you'll make positive contributions as you go.

Response by PFC Elijah Rose made Jun 24 at 2018 11:46 AM

2018-06-24T11:46:21-04:00

This new generation is no different than the last 10 generations, they are simply perceived as different.

Response by TSgt Steve Jasper made Jun 24 at 2018 5:09 PM

2018-06-24T17:09:34-04:00

Why is this a question when the responsibility of conformity falls on the immeadiate supervisor and leadership up? Is the standard to be changed to accommodate the individual or the success of the mission?

Response by TSgt Kerry Hardy made Jun 24 at 2018 10:16 PM

2018-06-24T22:16:45-04:00

You stated the you have been in USAF less than 2 years, so answer me this, How did you make SSgt in that time?

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 25 at 2018 12:55 AM

2018-06-25T00:55:22-04:00

If they’re doing the wrong thing just because they can, ask them why they think it’s a good idea. Have them think it through, show them the consequences of their actions should they get caught. Sometimes, key word “sometimes” you can change someone’s opinion by walking them through dumb stuff before they do it. Worked for me as junior enlisted, just ask the question why and challenge them on it. Why would it be funny or what ever their reason is? What happened most of the time I did that, it took the fun out of doing whatever it was.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 5:04 PM

2018-12-15T17:04:49-05:00

I see this in my peers as well. And the issue i see is simply leaders enforcing things differently. At boot camp, we were taught to care about the little details, but then we had our NCOs say that most stuff at boot camp should go out the window and our leaders dont show good discipline or care. The brass needs to keep our leaders in check so that we have good NCOs and SNCOs to look up to

Response by SSG Steven Chirco made Aug 24 at 2019 6:43 PM

2019-08-24T18:43:14-04:00

I think this generation, i.e. millennials, have a very entitled attitude that they feel they are the center of everything. They were not taught any discipline by their parents and society doesn’t place any expectations on anyone anymore. Look at our justice system, criminals are treated likewise the victims and the victims of the crimes get no justice anymore. The whole selfless service has no meaning. And really how can you expect someone with that mentality so ingrained to sacrifice themselves if needed to save their fellow soldiers? I can see why commands are going back to old school garrison ways. They are trying to hammer the team over self belief into a generation that has no concept of it.

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made Jul 27 at 2020 8:20 PM

2020-07-27T20:20:06-04:00

The military is soooooo different today from the one I knew. Most of the time wonder what the hell happened to my military. I’m soooo old.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Jul 28 at 2020 12:45 PM

2020-07-28T12:45:24-04:00

Military lifestyle is continuously evolving. During my 21 year career, I was amazed at the changes. Had they not changed, our AVF Concept would have failed. That being said, I think back on the simpler times.