Army Chevrons Down and Now Up... Why?

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:44:29 -0400

When the United States Army began in 1775, NCOs wore their stripes point down.  This continued until about 1903.  Here's the question: WHY??  I have been looking for years and I can't find an explanation.  I found the memorandum instituting the change and the fact that it took about 2 years to implement, but I can't find out why.  Does anyone know and can you cite a source?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 8 at 2014 7:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Apr 2014 19:04:16 -0400

I can find all kinds of stuff discussing the overall change to the way our current ranks generally look, but nothing that explicitly explains why chevrons were flipped to their current point side up appearance. The following two links are the two best that I found. The first pdf link I found particularly interesting to read. http://www.military-historians.org/publications/journal/samples/1920Chevrons.pdf http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/l/blstripehistory.htm

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 12:19 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 00:19:23 -0400

I have wondered this plenty of times. I have also never been able to find an explaination.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 12:58 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 00:58:36 -0400

CW2 Kantor,

It would appear that you have just won the internet. It seems you have found that one unanswerable question. I also have wondered about it and never found an answer (though with my attention span, I never looked too hard).

Response by SSG Ed Mikus made Apr 9 at 2014 1:39 AM

SSG Ed Mikus — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 01:39:35 -0400

It's all about history, tradition, and recognition by other/allied forces, this is just by guess from a little research i did but it seems they chose something already in use globally that most Americans were familiar with and understood that could be understood by allied forces as well as bring older traditions into our new military. here is a fairly good description on the history of the chevron. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevron_(insignia)

Chevron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made Apr 9 at 2014 2:41 AM

SSgt Gregory Guina — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 02:41:11 -0400

But why did the navy keep points down?

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Apr 9 at 2014 7:48 AM

MSG Wade Huffman — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 07:48:43 -0400

Very interesting question... I don't have an answer, but I'll definitely be following this tread!

Response by SFC Rich Carey made Apr 9 at 2014 10:12 AM

SFC Rich Carey — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:12:48 -0400

It is pointed up because we are always looking up, positive, leading the way. Pointing down, well...... I will be following this question. I think I will call someone that knows a lot of history about the Army.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Apr 9 at 2014 12:01 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 12:01:30 -0400

A dyslectic seamstress? Just Kidding! Good question. Now, why did the Air Force go the "wrong way"?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2014 9:52 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:52:20 -0400

There is a book about US Army Chevrons written by LTC(R) William Emerson called, "Chevron: Illustrated History and Catalog of U.S. Army Insignia". Emerson's book is the "bible" on the history of NCO Chevrons but is nearly impossible to find (although some base libraries have it...I know the FT Leavenworth Library has four or five copies). During the period just before, during, and after WW1 the ranking system changed ALOT. The Army instituted Chevrons that were never issued or worn. In all there were more than 180 or so different ranks/chevrons . http://www.emersoninsignia.net/Chevrons.html shows a selection of Army Chevrons. I am TDY right now but will look at my copy of Chevrons to see if it says the reason for the change in direction when I return.

Chevrons

Response by CPL Kenneth Brooks made Mar 3 at 2017 7:42 PM

CPL Kenneth Brooks — Fri, 03 Mar 2017 19:42:33 -0500

The Army was making significant changes to it's uniforms at the time and local commanders had been previously authorized to designate "up or down" for their command. To assure uniformity in both color and position of the new colored chevrons, War Department Circular 61 dated 30 November 1905 stated that the points of the Chevrons would be worn point upward.

Response by Hal Nathan made Feb 24 at 2018 10:51 AM

Hal Nathan — Sat, 24 Feb 2018 10:51:58 -0500

Hi there Jonathan...My name is Hal ans i originally am from Australia....I took up residency in Ohio in 2011 and was clearing up some of my stuff i brought over with me as i bought and sold collectibles back in oz...I was actually a stamp and coin dealer but delved in all sorts of stuff..Anything to make a buck i guess....I have located some USA chevrons but cant seem to find out what rank they are or what service they belong to....I found one batch on line but all it said was used military patches which an baby coming out the womb would comprehend..helpful as yuk ay??? I am attaching pics for you and they are numbered...if you can tekll me what they are in ref to the number i would be very appreciative...if you want me to phone you, i dont mind...My email is [login to see] ......My phione number is [login to see] if you want to phone...Just so you know this is not a prank, i will still have an aussie accent...lol

Response by SGT Thomas Mitchell made Feb 24 at 2018 11:44 AM

SGT Thomas Mitchell — Sat, 24 Feb 2018 11:44:30 -0500

The United States started out life after separating from Britain. Chevrons in the British Military were worn point down. It is likely that our Military turned them point up at some point to further differentiate themselves from British cousins.

Response by Cpl Ray Frigerio made Feb 24 at 2018 12:33 PM

Cpl Ray Frigerio — Sat, 24 Feb 2018 12:33:08 -0500

lol . It threw me for a loop when I got "promoted " to Corporal in my civil war reenactment unit , having been an e4 in the Marines ....

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Feb 24 at 2018 2:57 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sat, 24 Feb 2018 14:57:27 -0500

Look at our history- the British Army wears/wore theirs down- we copied and hen eventually decided to be markedly different

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Sep 22 at 2018 8:05 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 20:05:10 -0400

Here is the "best" information I can find:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elihu_Root
Elihu Root basically "reformed the War Department from 1899-1904.
Prior to that, things like Ranks and Uniforms were far from "standardized"
As an example, the USMC had been "points up" during the Civil War era which looks like a pretty close approximation of our modern (through the DoW to DoD transition) system.

Elihu Root - Wikipedia

Elihu Root (/ˈɛlɪhjuː ˈruːt/; February 15, 1845– February 7, 1937) was an American lawyer and statesman who served as the Secretary of State under President Theodore Roosevelt and as Secretary of War under Roosevelt and President William McKinley. He moved frequently between high-level appointed government positions in Washington, D.C. and private-sector legal practice in New York City. For that reason, he is sometimes considered to be the...

Response by MSgt Eugene Fielder made Sep 22 at 2018 8:51 PM

MSgt Eugene Fielder — Sat, 22 Sep 2018 20:51:00 -0400

I think the USAF made one of the dumbest changes in rank insignia in the DOD. The top stripes are crazy. For nearly 40 years or better two over were good enough. Also they looked good. Now the 3 over and five under looks crazy. This was explained to me so we could recognize the top three. I knew exactly what I was and what my stripes meant. I was a Master Sergeant. So over a years or so time I had to change every set of chevrons on all my uniforms. Just like when they did away with aircrew style badges. Some E9’s got their feelings being called “Sarge”.

Response by Sgt Pail Tackes made Jun 2 at 2019 10:38 PM

Sgt Pail Tackes — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 22:38:03 -0400

Heard the army did something bad so for all y time they had to wear the stripes upside down for a long v time to redeem themselves

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Jul 9 at 2020 1:18 AM

SSG Kenneth Ponder — Thu, 09 Jul 2020 01:18:34 -0400

Same reason USArmy started wearing Black Berets, ASR,OSR,NPDR, some damned officer,usually a general thought it was a good idea. But nobody wants to admit that they did it.